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Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio
- Thread starter LelouchZero
- Start date
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Forward compatibility was PR speak for permanent backwards compatibility as well as making it easier for people to feel better about the Xbox One being ditched asap.
Chobel
Member
Scorpio will also be ditched asap once PS5/XB2 gen starts, if (more like when) no FC.
transformer
Member
I give this a 50/50 chance. MS has been trying to push a unified platform and have gone the extra mile to enable backwards compatibility with 360. They seem to really want to make the Xbox a platform that has forward/backwards compatibility. I just don't know if they can pull it off in the long term.
Don't know if this has been posted but Digital Foundry tweeted out that the DX12 in the command processor is also present in Xbox One. So throw out that sauce.
https://twitter.com/digitalfoundry/status/850435047429738497
https://twitter.com/digitalfoundry/status/850435047429738497
No brainer to make BC a reality, as well as forward compatibility.
Same way a PC game has settings for LCD versions so can next iteration console games. Eventually some games will outpace it's abilities but it really only needs to last for eight years which is a normal/ high for a console cycle.
Don't get the concern over that strategy. It's happening and it's about time
Been gaming since 1980 and the next gen cycles were always fun but not nearly as rewarding or cost effective from a games library standpoint as this new model will be
Same way a PC game has settings for LCD versions so can next iteration console games. Eventually some games will outpace it's abilities but it really only needs to last for eight years which is a normal/ high for a console cycle.
Don't get the concern over that strategy. It's happening and it's about time
Been gaming since 1980 and the next gen cycles were always fun but not nearly as rewarding or cost effective from a games library standpoint as this new model will be
Not the same chip. MS improved it with more capabilities
Are you going to ignore my questions? I asked how Scorpio would have dynamic weather alone, and you didn't want to answer.
Now it reminds me when you said "You won't see pro, XB1, PS4 bottlenecks on Scorpio" and never came back to explain.
This CPU alone is a bottleneck and you claimed otherwise. But you keep coming back with fancy claims without proof.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Not sure how quickly Scorpio will be ditched. It could be powerful enough to keep up (maybe even with FP16?) until the one after Scorpio 2 arrives.
Chobel
Member
While its GPU may keep up with next gen, its CPU can't. Jaguar is way inferior to Zen which next gen consoles will absolutely have.
Simple
Forza 6 developed on XB1.
Turn 10 couldn't put dynamic weather in it due to limitations at that time.
DF went to MS.
Turn 10 ported Forza 6 to Scorpio with 2 days and no optimizations to Scorpio advancements.
ForzaTech, name of demo, ran on Scorpio at 4K 60FPS. They decided to add 4k assets for track, textures, cars and it didn't hinder performance.
They then added dynamic weather, which again wasn't added for Forza 6 on the same engine, and Scorpio ran it with no issues.
Having dynamic weather is a cpu task not a gpu task.
They then ran the engine on pc ultra settings still only using 88% max of gpu power with more to spare.
So again, a engine that ran on XB1 didn't have dynamic weather because they wanted to keep the fps stable otherwise it'll probably would have caused them to drop to 30 fps.. They brute force the port onto Scorpio using no optimizations and guess what?! They got all those improvements in with power to spare. The end
Metalingus5150
Member
You can't really extrapolate performance for the system as a whole from a single engine tech demo.
Liabe Brave
Member
No, that's not what happened. The version of Forza Digital Foundry actually saw running was the "Xbox One assets" version, which was solid 60fps at 55-70% GPU utilization. They were told by Microsoft that when turned up to all ultra settings, Forza hit 88% utilization (and presumably the same performance). When DF tried to run the PC version at 4K with ultra settings, a 1070 wouldn't quite stay locked.
But despite both being versions of Forza, the two games compared were not the same. It's unclear how much optimization for Scorpio the "ultra assets" version had, if any (or what improvements Turn10 have just naturally made to their engine since the retail release). And furthermore, at best Digital Foundry only had Microsoft's word that it ran totally locked. This is why they specifically say to be cautious about drawing any conclusions from their "test".
Did you not have a PS2 or PS3? Because both were completely backwards compatible, while still also running games that were a leap forward.
Doesn't that depend whether MS sticks to traditional generations and doesn't go full hog into the iPad model of upgrades? Going with the marketing of a new "generation-less" approach.
You are so full of it... you even claimed dynamic weather probably ran at 30 fps on XB1 is such make believe. We don't even know dynamic weather exists yet.Simple
Forza 6 developed on XB1.
Turn 10 couldn't put dynamic weather in it due to limitations at that time.
DF went to MS.
Turn 10 ported Forza 6 to Scorpio with 2 days and no optimizations to Scorpio advancements.
ForzaTech, name of demo, ran on Scorpio at 4K 60FPS. They decided to add 4k assets for track, textures, cars and it didn't hinder performance.
They then added dynamic weather, which again wasn't added for Forza 6 on the same engine, and Scorpio ran it with no issues.
Having dynamic weather is a cpu task not a gpu task.
They then ran the engine on pc ultra settings still only using 88% max of gpu power with more to spare.
So again, a engine that ran on XB1 didn't have dynamic weather because they wanted to keep the fps stable otherwise it'll probably would have caused them to drop to 30 fps.. They brute force the port onto Scorpio using no optimizations and guess what?! They got all those improvements in with power to spare. The end
Exactly it doens't exist in any Forza Motorsport title. Exactly I said PROBABLY since I'm not even sure if they could since AGAIN Forza 6 doesn't have dynamic weather. It's stated by DF that Dynamic Weather was in the demo. Unless you were there could you say otherwise?
Liabe Brave
Member
Is this supposed to be chronological? Because the porting to Scorpio happened months before Digital Foundry visited Microsoft.
This is not true. The one screenshot we have is from this initial version. It has 4K-level texture assets, but the track and cars are obviously still using standard Xbox One assets and graphical settings.
No, it's both. You have to actually display the weather onscreen, which requires GPU power.
It is highly doubtful the final version you're talking about had no optimizations. They've had months to work on it.
Dont bother.
They didn't have months to work on it. Again it's stated by DF Turn 10 had 2 days to port the game to the dev kit they received. Where did you get the months from?
Phat 2000 Dola
Neo Member
Now we just need the finer details to be formally released. Like the ability for the new controller to recharge eneloops.
Let's just pretend MS told Digital Foundry that Dynamic Weather exists. All we've seen is a screenshot. Were you around when MS made claims about the cloud? They have this demo made with dynamic weather and they couldn't even provide a video to show it off? Give me a break.
If this happens it will truly be a beast.
Still give MS props tho for not needing a battery holder for the controller.
Mine for the 360 getting broke meant hunting down replacement parts.
Because it's not a game to show off? I think you can best bet Forza 7 is a good indicator.
Also that screenshot shows the sky that can't be replicated at all in Forza 6. Top that with the roads being wet and the cars not drenched in water that you won't see with Forza 6 static weather
It's a sky screenshot. It means nothing about evolution of weather. This is so silly. The last Forza had rain puddles but that doesn't mean the weather or time of day ever changes.
Liabe Brave
Member
I got all this info from Digital Foundry. I think you may need to refresh your memory by watching the video again, because it's also not the case that this was running on a devkit. Mr. Leadbetter said that Turn10 got initial silicon production samples in January. They used these to cobble together a "kind-of" Scorpio testbed (not an official devkit they were given). This is the device to which they ported Forza in two days.
Mr. Leadbetter himself visited Microsoft in late March. This gap is why Turn10 had already had the opportunity to further work on Forza, turning up to ultra settings (and probably also doing further optimization). But for some reason they chose not to show him that version, instead presenting him with the one using Xbox One-level assets apart from high-res textures.
transformer
Member
Way to "not" quote the second half of my post... maybe you didn't get that far. That might explain your response. Bottom line, Forza 7 will be 4K/60 with improved effects, something along the lines of ultra, on Scorpio. Day one for me for that game alone.
DF
"The ForzaTech port to Scorpio took two days to complete and was fully performant from day one."
The screenshot below is the Forza demo running in 4K 60FPS and 4k assets with only about 66% gpu usage. Maybe we'll get more videos and pics from DF but i doubt it. I'm sure Turn 10 wants Forza 7 to be the showcase
Chobel
Member
It actually depends on 3rd party devs/pubs, and that's when it gets tricky. MS will try to convince them to design their games around Scorpio, while at the same time Sony will try to convince them to ditch the old gen and develop games around Zen+next gen GPU.
Why do you get away with spreading false info?DF
"The ForzaTech port to Scorpio took two days to complete and was fully performant from day one."
The screenshot below is the Forza demo running in 4K 60FPS and 4k assets with only about 66% gpu usage. Maybe we'll get more videos and pics from DF but i doubt it. I'm sure Turn 10 wants Forza 7 to be the showcase
MS claimed 88% percent. Not 66%, which would be even more extra amazing.
What bugs me is you know they work for a company selling a console, and you can guess why they would claim percentages and times that aren't exactly truthful. And you keep making wild claims.
Seen as the iPad model is similar to PCs development where you have normal/advanced/ultra settings that has to be more advantages for devs.
I think you missing the point the Scorpio is the next specs that MS will allow devs to hit after a few years of it being on the market so that will be the start of higher specs which is far more consumer orientated than a traditional generation where a PS5 or Xbox 2 May ditch backward compatibility.
chaosmaster(1)
Member
Thing is Scorpio is targeted at their hardcore base so wouldn't that base just drop Scorpio for the next box anyways. I don't see why MS just wouldn't do a new gen like Sony will.
Night.Ninja
Banned
As hard as a lot of you are trying now and a lot of you are trying very hard but when the games drop your going to have to join forces and coordinate your attacks.
It's a shame we can't have a Xbox related thread on this forum that doesn't turn to shit. Literally not point to enter this thread anymore.
It's a shame we can't have a Xbox related thread on this forum that doesn't turn to shit. Literally not point to enter this thread anymore.
soundscream
Member
No it was 88% with ultra settings, the picture above was with high settings and lod models on track, it says it on the picture itself.
Games will follow you, MS have done amazing things technically for 360 BC that I feel what they learned will feed into thier next machine.
Apology accepted!
Still a great avatar.transformer
Member
They are not spreading false info. You are just jumping to false conclusions. Perhaps you haven't read the article, here are the cliff notes:
1. Forza tech ported to Scorpio with Xbox one settings and 4K assets. Ran at 4K/60 with ~66% GPU.
2. They ran a separate test. Imagine that. Two data points! They can run more than once and change the settings. This separate test pushed the engine to PC ultra settings. Ran at 4K/60 with 88% GPU.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
tiredheadcrab
Member
Developers will still be making games for the PS4 and Xbox one line family for into the 2020's and will probably ditch them by 2023 depending on sales of the next gen consoles. We wont see developers really utilize a Zen cpu until years after the next gen system release anyway. Not reason to rush.
freefornow
Member
Geez this thread
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ThatOneGrunt
Member
I think releasing the specs did more harm than good for some Gaffers.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Has dark10x chimed in on all this?
The ethical side? The tech side?
The ethical side? The tech side?
Best to get that out the way now, Scorpio in beast mode at E3 will be a sight to behold, like DF said, there's a feeling of confidence from MS, rightfully so.
Spencer seemed pleased 4 weeks ago during that IGN panel, they got something brewing.
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
The install times from the games on disc will be more faster than the xbox one?More like the ps4?
Kurt Angle
Member
Lol what?! That's straight from DF article. If you want to say they're lying. You better have proof or else don't spread lies about the topic article
tiredheadcrab
Member
Why would he after how bad this thread has turned?
Can you imagine when DF does comparison videos with 3rd party games? I shutter at how bad they can turn.
Hold on, even Space_nuts said this was for ultra settings at 88%.
That means this Forza tech demo used up 88% on MS own demo. This is in Space_nuts own words:
"No 88% was the max load on gpu. Do I need to link you to the article?
And let's no forget this is with ultra settings 4k native."
lol exactly max load with ultra settings was at 88%. The test with 4k assets and Dynamic weather was 40%-60%
I didnt say the pic was the ultra settings one go back and reread