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[geordiemp]

My analysis is that it seems MS spent more time engineering the same cpu/gpu hardware as Sony and came out with drastically different results. The power draw will be interesting because Richard mentioned that Scorpio has a 245W power supply that "Del Castillo (MS general mgr of hardware design) reckons is the most efficient in Xbox history". PS4 Pro has a 310W power supply. That's 245W for faster cpu, faster/larger gpu, more ram, higher bandwidth, uhd bluray drive, etc. I just don't think it would have hurt Sony to keep the Pro in the kitchen for 6 more months if this kind of performance would have been the result.

Ps4 DRAWS 155 Watts max, but uses a 310 Watt supply to keep the PSU temperature down so it runs nice and cool inside the box, and will last a long time and it is efficient TDP and cost.

So what will scorpio DRAW and what will be the supply rating, you seem to be mixing it up. Do you not mean Scorpio will draw 245 watts , and if so what is the supply (something like 500 W) . Hope that cooling is good. I have not looked at Scorpio TDP and power draw articles yet...

You seem to think higher watts is better ? I am confused by what you are trying to say ?

 

[JamesHolden]

That's precisely because PC's don't have the luxury of being consoles, but have to lowest-common-denominator everything across two orders of magnitude. It's only when the next-gen consoles come out that the baseline is reset, including for PC.

You don't understand, the lowest common denominator on PC for CPU is far more capable than jaguar

 

[mrklaw]

I meant it for both a little bit I think. After Jag anyway I don't think we are going to be looking at much larger jumps in cpu's in the consoles so close together. Just like it has been. So it wouldn't be that bad to have forward compat for an iteration or two where games where designed around them. Though I agree games would evolve more and faster without this limitation.

Anyway, I do think there should be some sort of forward compat cut off. I see this as being a good thing for the industry as a whole and I really think if gamers thought about it and the advantages they would agree. Perhaps do it like PC does where it doesn't bar you from running the game but you aren't going to have a good time if you aren't up to spec lol.

Just as long as back compat was always there I would be fine with that I think.

You will still be limited by the business requirements of publishers.

- if you have forward compatibility you design for a baseline, code and release to two platforms with one boxed product.

- if you remove forward compatibility, publishers won't want to ignore the large existing user base so may still design for a baseline, code and release to two platforms - just with two boxed products. A small amount of extra cost in shipping two different software skus but your 'next gen' machine is still having software held back by the previous one if the publisher needs to hedge their bets.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

This is exactly contradictory to what Phil Spencer said last E3.

How? Microsoft has been hammering Xbox One family since last E3. "No one gets left behind"...in the Xbox One family

When the Xbox 4 comes out. The Xbox One family is getting left behind hardware wise but your games library will carry forward the same way your 360 library is being carried forward.

 

[Leonidas]

I doubt Zen would have made much of a difference.

Zen in the first APUs that get it are going to be running at 1.5-1.8 GHz, maybe 2 GHz, it seems some people seem to think that there is going to be 3.7+ GHz Zen processors in an APU, I just don't see that happening...

If you look at gaming benchmarks Ryzen performs moderately better than AMDs old CPU architecture in gaming... looking at Benchmarks, the difference between AMDs old CPU architecture(AMD 8370) and Ryzen(1800x) is around 15%.

If they waited for Ryzen they would have got somewhere around 15% extra performance, not worth waiting for IMO.

 

[Wedzi]

PC games are largely limited by the need to also run on consoles.

Also limited by just the sheer number of different configurations. Does steam keep track of what the most popular graphics cards people are using? Would be cool to see the break down.

 

[E-Cat]

Which is why I said PC exclusives.

It hasn't been economically viable for PC exclusives to really push technology forward since... I wanna say Crysis?

 

[sirronoh]

You might. For most people, there isn't. It's XBO and PS4, and while the PS4's power helped (and I think it will for Scorpio), it's not going be an amazing difference for the general populace of system buyers.

Agreed. Power means something to a subset of the gaming community but anyone expecting a large change in hardware sales in favor of Xbox, my guess is they'd be wrong. The Xbox One S and PS4 slim will continue to be the biggest driver of sales for the foreseeable future, primarily because they will be $150 to possibly $250 dollars cheaper than Scorpio and PS4 Pro and at this stage of the generation, price is far more meaningful than power to the average consumer.

 

[Matt]

Which is why I said PC exclusives.

Some PC exclusives do require more CPU grunt than consoles can muster. And on top of that, well there aren't many AAA PC exclusives, at least from categories that also thrive on consoles.

 

[Space_nut]

I doubt Zen would have made much of a difference.

Zen in the first APUs that get it are going to be running at 1.5-1.8 GHz, maybe 2 GHz, it seems some people seem to think that there is going to be 3.7+ GHz Zen processors in an APU, I just don't see that happening...

If you look at gaming benchmarks Ryzen performs moderately better than AMDs old CPU architecture in gaming... looking at Benchmarks, the difference between AMDs old CPU architecture(AMD 8370) and Ryzen(1800x) is around 15%.

If they waited for Ryzen they would have got somewhere around 15% extra performance, not worth waiting for IMO.

That is interesting. 15% is nice but not a "generational" difference. I think MS and Sony did good working with what's out and improving on it

 

[JamesHolden]

Some PC exclusives do require more CPU grunt than consoles can muster. And on top of that, well there aren't many AAA PC exclusives, at least from categories that also thrive on consoles.

It's not about sales, it's about what the increase in CPU will provide for games beyond not being a limiting factor in framerate. For VR it absolutely matters, but improved AI or NPC counts as a reason for next gen doesn't seem viable to me.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Agree to disagree. Like I said in my first post to you, I see enough of a diff. At the very least, I see how others could see it that way.

I should hope you will see a difference in a product that is going to be released a year after PS4 Pro. Do you call Amiga's half assed machine because a mere 30 years ago they did not match the performance of $499 PC's today?

 

[Matt]

It's not about sales, it's about what the increase in CPU will provide for games beyond not being a limiting factor in framerate. For VR it absolutely matters, but improved AI or NPC counts as a reason for next gen doesn't seem viable to me.

Why? Those wouldn't really be happening on PCs now, because generally it would require a big studio production that would never be PC exclusive.

 

[geordiemp]

I doubt Zen would have made much of a difference.
.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11143...or-under-330-preorder-today-on-sale-march-2nd

Ryzen to excavator is 52 % faster IPC. Gaming performance has many other factors, you know this.

 

[E-Cat]

You don't understand, the lowest common denominator on PC for CPU is far more capable than jaguar

And this is your argument for why we should be seeing more novel features on PC games that take advantage of the excess CPU power? Interesting.

 

[BigPapi]

But those games that have to support both Scorpio and the next-gen Xbox are going to be horribly compromised by the ancient Jaguar CPU and 12 GB of GDDR5 memory, thus making the concept of buying the new console obsolete in the first place!

This is BS because look at the past when the new gen started after the first year of cross gen games and we really started to get "next-gen" games developers really did not take advantage of the hardware until probably this year and the last, yet I bet they can still improve.

This is happening 3-4 years deep into the gen I'm not sure you can make the prediction that developers can't make incredible games if they have take something like Scorpio as a baseline.

Another point is that games are very expensive to the point where a exclusive pc developer firaxis purposely made it so that even lower end machine can run their game to ensure they have an ample install base of people so they can play/purchase their game. Developers I bet wouldn't be against the concept of to always have a machine they can develop for that has a large install base.

 

[ResoRai]

Are there any comparisons of Scorpio's GPU and an Rx 480? Speed, bandwidth, etc? They've basically matched the desktop version due to the cooling method right?

 

[Leonidas]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11143...or-under-330-preorder-today-on-sale-march-2nd

Ryzen to excavator is 52 % faster.

That's productivity, take a look at gaming benchmarks.

 

[Electret]

I doubt Zen would have made much of a difference.

Zen in the first APUs that get it are going to be running at 1.5-1.8 GHz, maybe 2 GHz, it seems some people seem to think that there is going to be 3.7+ GHz Zen processors in an APU, I just don't see that happening...

If you look at gaming benchmarks Ryzen performs moderately better than AMDs old CPU architecture in gaming... looking at Benchmarks, the difference between AMDs old CPU architecture(AMD 8370) and Ryzen(1800x) is around 15%.

If they waited for Ryzen they would have got somewhere around 15% extra performance, not worth waiting for IMO.

(A) you're comparing Zen to Piledriver architectures, and (B) Zen sports a 52% increase in IPC over Excavator, which in turn outclasses Jaguar. The point is this: Zen would have been a huge jump in IPC over Jaguar, regardless of clocks.

 

[JamesHolden]

Why? Those wouldn't really be happening on PCs now, because generally it would require a big studio production that would never be PC exclusive.

Improved AI has been developed, but many have stated it's not fun. NPC counts are a box to check, but it doesn't move the needle. We already have people complaining that this gen raising the bar on resolution but changing little in game design is disappointment. A second generation that does the same will be tough sell.

Unlocking CPU limitations in a PS5 to leave millions of existing console owners behind for very little marketable game play reasons, again, will be a tough sell.

 

[JamesHolden]

And this is your argument for why we should be seeing more novel features on PC games that take advantage of the excess CPU power? Interesting.

The argument is the overhead exists already, but we haven't seen it used for anything. Maybe that will change.

 

[Syrus]

This is BS because look at the past when the new gen started after the first year of cross gen games and we really started to get "next-gen" games developers really did not take advantage of the hardware until probably this year and the last, yet I bet they can still improve.

This is happening 3-4 years deep into the gen I'm not sure you can make the prediction that developers can't make incredible games if they have take something like Scorpio as a baseline.

Another point is that games are very expensive to the point where a exclusive pc developer firaxis purposely made it so that even lower end machine can run their game to ensure they have an ample install base of people so they can play/purchase their game. Developers I bet wouldn't be against the concept of to always have a machine they can develop for that has a large install base.

Does this guy not understand PC world ?(guy you quoted)

The games coming on Scorpio or maybe Xbox 2 may still run on OG X1.

Just ugly as shit lol.

Gamea have low , medium ,high. Ultra and in between.

Xbox one - low , Scorpio high-ultra , Xbox 2.0 - as high as they can.


Now whether they truly will be making games compatible with X1 after Scorpio we will see but like I said maybe shitty graphics and the new consoles will bw the true iteration

 

[Matt]

Improved AI has been developed, but many have stated it's not fun. NPC counts are a box to check, but it doesn't move the needle. We already have people complaining that this gen raising the bar on resolution but changing little in game design is disappointment. A second generation that does the same will be tough sell.

Unlocking CPU limitations in a PS5 to leave millions of existing console owners behind for very little marketable game play reasons, again, will be a tough sell.

You are being closed minded. And it's not just the big things like AI. I have seen so many cool things crossed off the board because we couldn't afford the logic.

Besides, I don't think Scorpio will sell so many units that saying goodbye to them will break anyone's heart.

 

[E-Cat]

The argument is the overhead exists already, but we haven't seen it used for anything. Maybe that will change.

As it has always existed. And because AAA development is now so centered around the consoles, that power will not be used for anything until the next-gen consoles ship. At which point there will yet again be more PC overhead to be underutilized. And around and around it goes...

 

[scently]

But space_nut was referring to the ultra version.


Sorry, I read on GAF that Digital Foundry said GPU utilization fluctuated between 88% and 100%, but I can't find the primary source. It appears I was wrong. But if 88% was the highest GPU utilization, that very likely means they're CPU bound. So that "spare GPU" would remain unused.

This is wrong and you know it. The game is already running at 60fps as far as cpu is concerned so all that remains is to pile on as much graphically effect as possible. Having done that they found that gpu utilization is at 88%.

You could actually read the article.

 

[Steel]

I doubt Zen would have made much of a difference.

Zen in the first APUs that get it are going to be running at 1.5-1.8 GHz, maybe 2 GHz, it seems some people seem to think that there is going to be 3.7+ GHz Zen processors in an APU, I just don't see that happening...

If you look at gaming benchmarks Ryzen performs moderately better than AMDs old CPU architecture in gaming... looking at Benchmarks, the difference between AMDs old CPU architecture(AMD 8370) and Ryzen(1800x) is around 15%.

If they waited for Ryzen they would have got somewhere around 15% extra performance, not worth waiting for IMO.

The hell are you even talking about? None of this is true. Ryzen and virtually any other cpu are about 52% better than excavator per clock which is far better than Jaguar already. Not to mention Zen scales extremely well with power unlike previous AMD cpus. A ryzen APU at 1.5 ghz would leave Jaguar in the dust. It's also worth noting that most 1700s have the same overclock limit as an 1800x even though they're in completely different price brackets.

Hell, any modern I3 would leave jaguar in the dust in gaming. Hell, several year old I3s would leave jaguar in the dust in gaming. Like, note the difference between an 8370(a very high power consumption part) to all the currently released Ryzen models here(Note, you're looking at the red bar for CPU performance):

I will say 8 core Ryzens are too expensive to keep Scorpio in its current price range, though. A 4 core or 6 core Ryzen coulda been in the right range and still eat jaguar's lunch, though.

Note jaguar isn't even on the list even though there are cpus from 2011 on there.

 

[Electret]

You are being closed minded. And it's not just the big things like AI. I have seen so many cool things crossed off the board because we couldn't afford the logic.

Besides, I don't think Scorpio will sell so many units that saying goodbye to them will break anyone's heart.

Matt - I'm curious if you think we'll see increased cross-gen development in the PS5/Scorpio 2 era. I suspect devs will see 100+ million XB1, PS4, and Scorpio users hard to pass by, and a common AMD x86 CPU basis as technically enabling development on four platforms across two gens, to an extent far greater than was permitted in previous generations hallmarked by disparate CPU architectures. In that case, I could see the advancement of CPU-oriented tasks lag as devs try to build something that will work on all systems.

 

[Space_nut]

As it has always existed. And because AAA development is now so centered around the consoles, that power will not be used for anything until the next-gen consoles ship. At which point there will yet again be more PC overhead to be underutilized. And around and around it goes...

I know I've heard this before. Oh yea I said that myself!! He's not going to understand at all

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I should hope you will see a difference in a product that is going to be released a year after PS4 Pro. Do you call Amiga's half assed machine because a mere 30 years ago they did not match the performance of $499 PC's today?

Woah, the Amiga is still trying to compete with current gen consoles? How did I miss this?

Spoiler

Scorp and Pro are directly competing against eachother...

 

[Matt]

Matt - I'm curious if you think we'll see increased cross-gen development in the PS5/Scorpio 2 era. I suspect devs will see 100+ million XB1, PS4, and Scorpio users hard to pass by, and a common AMD x86 CPU basis as technically enabling development on four platforms across two gens, to an extent far greater than was permitted in previous generations hallmarked by disparate CPU architectures. In that case, I could see the advancement of CPU-oriented tasks lag as devs try to build something that will work on all systems.

Maybe at th start, but I kinda doubt it over the longer term. Active gamers seem to give up their old consoles pretty fast.

 

[Matt]

The hell are you even talking about? None of this is true. Ryzen and virtually any other cpu are about 52% better than excavator per clock which is far better than Jaguar already. Not to mention Zen scales extremely well with power unlike previous AMD cpus. A ryzen APU at 1.5 ghz would leave Jaguar in the dust. It's also worth noting that most 1700s have the same overclock limit as an 1800x even though they're in completely different price brackets.

Hell, any modern I3 would leave jaguar in the dust in gaming. Hell, several year old I3s would leave jaguar in the dust in gaming. Like, note the difference between an 8370(a very high power consumption part) to all the currently released Ryzen models here(Note, you're looking at the red bar for CPU performance):



I will say 8 core Ryzens are too expensive to keep Scorpio in its current price range, though. A 4 core or 6 core Ryzen coulda been in the right range and still eat jaguar's lunch, though.

Note jaguar isn't even on the list even though there are cpus from 2011 on there.

Thank you.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

You will still be limited by the business requirements of publishers.

- if you have forward compatibility you design for a baseline, code and release to two platforms with one boxed product.

- if you remove forward compatibility, publishers won't want to ignore the large existing user base so may still design for a baseline, code and release to two platforms - just with two boxed products. A small amount of extra cost in shipping two different software skus but your 'next gen' machine is still having software held back by the previous one if the publisher needs to hedge their bets.

Yeah, I can definitely see that now that you mention it.

I wasn't saying it should be removed altogether btw. Just that there should still definitely be a cut off at some point so that game dev can evolve as well.

 

[diehard]

Note jaguar isn't even on the list even though there are cpus from 2011 on there.

No SKU for the PC went above 4 cores, why would there be?

 

[timlot]

Ps4 DRAWS 155 Watts max, but uses a 310 Watt supply to keep the PSU temperature down so it runs nice and cool inside the box, and will last a long time and it is efficient TDP and cost.

So what will scorpio DRAW and what will be the supply rating, you seem to be mixing it up. Do you not mean Scorpio will draw 245 watts , and if so what is the supply (something like 500 W) . Hope that cooling is good. I have not looked at Scorpio TDP and power draw articles yet...

I'm not saying anything. I'm just reporting what was said in the DF article...
"It was also heartening to see that Microsoft has retained an internal power supply: in this case, a 245W universal voltage PSU that Del Castillo reckons is the most efficient in Xbox history."

 

[Kayant]

The hell are you even talking about? None of this is true. Ryzen and virtually any other cpu are about 52% better than excavator per clock which is far better than Jaguar already. Not to mention Zen scales extremely well with power unlike previous AMD cpus. A ryzen APU at 1.5 ghz would leave Jaguar in the dust. It's also worth noting that most 1700s have the same overclock limit as an 1800x even though they're in completely different price brackets.

Hell, any modern I3 would leave jaguar in the dust in gaming. Hell, several year old I3s would leave jaguar in the dust in gaming. Like, note the difference between an 8370(a very high power consumption part) to all the currently released Ryzen models here(Note, you're looking at the red bar for CPU performance):



I will say 8 core Ryzens are too expensive to keep Scorpio in its current price range, though. A 4 core or 6 core Ryzen coulda been in the right range and still eat jaguar's lunch, though.

Note jaguar isn't even on the list even though there are cpus from 2011 on there.

Plus these improved frametimes!

https://techreport.com/review/31366/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-ryzen-7-1700x-and-ryzen-7-1700-cpus-reviewed/8

 

[Leonidas]

(A) you're comparing Zen to Piledriver architectures, and (B) Zen sports a 52% increase in IPC over Excavator, which in turn outclasses Jaguar. The point is this: Zen would have been a huge jump in IPC over Jaguar, regardless of clocks.

I see, my mistake, I was just comparing 8370 vs Ryzen.

I was thrown off by the fact that AMDs lower power stuff last gen wasn't based off of their desktop architecture...

 

[BigPapi]

I think that we can all agree that for developers it will always make sense to make games cross gen until they are confident that the new gen can get them the profit margin they need. So if the developers are going to "handicap" their game already why is it bad to provide consumers forward compatibility for length of time longer than usual.


If Microsoft were to go the route of releasing a new console every 4 years the baseline will only be there for 4 years not the length of an usual console gen so new technology get to advance gaining even faster.

1. Ex: Xbox one baseline to 2021 (8 years exception)
2. New baseline Scorpio 2021- 2025
3. New baseline Xbox two 2025 - 2029

Every console is supported for 8 years but every 4 years their exist a higher spec for the hardcore

 

[timlot]

After how DF messed the DX12 thing I have my doubts 245 watts isnt the real consumption.Take a look at what is the RX480 consumption overclocked to reach 6tflops.

Messed up a stretch. Fact still remains "Scorpio's Command Processor provides additional capability and programmability beyond what Xbox One/Xbox One S can do."

I'm sure Microsoft has read the article several times. Hence the update on DX12. If there was further clarification on facts in the article I'm sure the would have pointed them out to Richard.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

This is me reading the last few pages. Unnecessary swiping at the Pro, unnecessary counter attacks, spinning of tech details. Be excellent to each other.

BTW - has anyone had any experience with the centrifugal fans the Scorpio is using to cool the APU? Noise levels?

 

[amstradcpc]

Matt - I'm curious if you think we'll see increased cross-gen development in the PS5/Scorpio 2 era. I suspect devs will see 100+ million XB1, PS4, and Scorpio users hard to pass by, and a common AMD x86 CPU basis as technically enabling development on four platforms across two gens, to an extent far greater than was permitted in previous generations hallmarked by disparate CPU architectures. In that case, I could see the advancement of CPU-oriented tasks lag as devs try to build something that will work on all systems.

Sony already have said PS5 will be a new gen.That will force MS to leave behind Scorpio and XB1.Another thing is if next one will be the last gen, but for other things, like silicom reduction limit.

 

[geordiemp]

I'm not saying anything. I'm just reporting what was said in the DF article...
"It was also heartening to see that Microsoft has retained an internal power supply: in this case, a 245W universal voltage PSU that Del Castillo reckons is the most efficient in Xbox history."

So your comment about 6 months in Kitchen and power is kinda mixed up LOL, MS just went for a different type (tech) of power supply by the look of it, But I doubt its a 240 Watt supply as Scorpio will be using allot more than Ps4 pro at 155 W. Does not make any sense. Power draw will be higher than Ps4 max (155) with those higher clocks, it will be interesting to see how hot Scorpio gets and how the cooling works. Intrigued.

Messed up a stretch. Fact still remains "Scorpio's Command Processor provides additional capability and programmability beyond what Xbox One/Xbox One S can do."

I'm sure Microsoft has read the article several times. Hence the update on DX12. If there was further clarification on facts in the article I'm sure the would have pointed them out to Richard.

You do realise that Ps4 and xb1 have command processors, Xb1 has a DX12 one as well, Xb1 already has that unlimited power LOL

If you read the SIGGRAPH 2015 presentation they cut the number of draw call by 1 or 2 order of magnitude using such techniques. I believe trails HD used only 0,2 ms of one Jaguar core allocated to all things related to drawcalls. This is for Ps4 and Xb1, they do it already I understand

Move along here, there is nothing to see, luckily MS admitted Xb1 also has DX12 secret sauce command processor as it confused so many

 

[Steel]

No SKU for the PC went above 4 cores, why would there be?

There are plenty of four core and even two core cpus on the list. Jaguar didn't make it.

I see, my mistake, I was just comparing 8370 vs Ryzen.



I was thrown off by the fact that AMDs lower power stuff last gen wasn't based off of their desktop architecture...

Pretty sure that's an average of GPU limited scenarios looking at how pretty much all the top end CPUs cap out at the same place.

 

[Marmelade]

I think that we can all agree that for developers it will always make sense to make games cross gen until they are confident that the new gen can get them the profit margin they need. So if the developers are going to "handicap" their game already why is it bad to provide consumers forward compatibility for length of time longer than usual.


If Microsoft were to go the route of releasing a new console every 4 years the baseline will only be there for 4 years not the length of an usual console gen so new technology get to advance gaining even faster.

1. Ex: Xbox one baseline to 2021 (8 years exception)
2. New baseline Scorpio 2021- 2025
3. New baseline Xbox two 2025 - 2029

Devs will make cross gen games at the beginning of a new gen like usual
So in your example, the PS5 would go against a "Xbox two" hampered by Scorpio?
edit: the thought of having Jaguar as a baseline CPU until 2025...ugh

 

[Electret]

Sony already have said PS5 will be a new gen.That will force MS to leave behind Scorpio and XB1.Another thing is if next one will be the last gen, but for other things, like silicom reduction limit.

Yeah, I think PS5 will be a clean break, but also that Sony will figure out how to emulate or generally support 90%+ of PS4's library. I think pressure from XB1's BC and the increasingly digital share of purchases make the alternative untenable or at least highly unpalatable.

However, the extent of cross-gen development will largely be determined by developers themselves. PS5 having a Zen-based architecture raises some interesting questions about which platforms will be supported. You can make a clean break to build far more advanced CPU-oriented code, with the (as it appears today) reasonable assumption that PS5 will sell quickly and globally. Or, you don't want to lose out on millions of customers on preceding platforms, and if you're going to lower the baseline for Scorpio's Jaguar (assuming MS by this point permits exclusives), why not target a 30% lower baseline for PS4 and XB1?

Silicon-based techniques will definitely be an issue. I don't know if 5nm or EUV will offer enough of a jump beyond 7nm. Time for post-silicon.

 

[BigPapi]

Sony already have said PS5 will be a new gen.That will force MS to leave behind Scorpio and XB1.Another thing is if next one will be the last gen, but for other things, like silicom reduction limit.

Why will MS be forced to do anything say for example Sony releases PS5 Fall 2019 $400 and we have the usual 1-2 years of games being cross gen. Microsoft would then release their beefier console 2021 and at the same time undercutting with Scorpio and having that still be supported for another 4 years. Casuals would buy the $200 Scorpio and the hardcore that were early adopters for Sony in 2019 will be looking at the New Xbox console.

 

[JamesHolden]

You are being closed minded. And it's not just the big things like AI. I have seen so many cool things crossed off the board because we couldn't afford the logic.

Besides, I don't think Scorpio will sell so many units that saying goodbye to them will break anyone's heart.

I hope there are things in the pipeline and that I'm not only being close minded about it, but the market will appreciate it. But this isn't about leaving behind Scorpio, this is about leaving behind this generation altogether.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Scorpio ain't gonna be the next baseline Xbox when next gen arrives. They will just drop it same as Sony will. Except for the usual cross gen games you get for the first year or two.

It's an 'Xbox One family device'. The next Xbox after Scorpio will just have full back compat with everything they have done this gen.

 

[Matt]

I hope there are things in the pipeline and that I'm not only being close minded about it, but the market will appreciate it. But this isn't about leaving behind Scorpio, this is about leaving behind this generation altogether.

Well we will be leaving it all behind.

 

[BigPapi]

Devs will make cross gen games at the beginning of a new gen like usual
So in your example, the PS5 would go against a "Xbox two" hampered by Scorpio?
edit: the thought of having Jaguar as a baseline CPU until 2025...ugh

The hardware itself wouldn't be hampered at all in terms of the software it depends If a new console comes out it will take upward of 4 years to get truly next gen performance by then it would become the new baseline

 

[E-Cat]

Why will MS be forced to do anything say for example Sony releases PS5 Fall 2019 $400 and we have the usual 1-2 years of games being cross gen. Microsoft would then release their beefier console 2021 and at the same time undercutting with Scorpio and having that still be supported for another 4 years. Casuals would buy the $200 Scorpio and the hardcore that were early adopters for Sony in 2019 will be looking at the New Xbox console.

Because if the next-gen Xbox games were still beholden to the Scorpio spec, they would look worse than the PS5 exclusives regardless of whether the actual console was beefier or not. And one of the major reasons why MS lost this gen was because Xbox One games were considered to be 'inferior'.