Support NeoGAF

[DerZuhälter]

There were, and those of us who understood that was next to impossible were trying to tell them the error of their ways. Hell as recently as yesterday I was still trying to explain to people how absurd the idea of Zen in Scorpio was.

I really don't see how so many people convinced themselves it was happening.

Because there are dozens of posters in here who have no idea how software or hardware work, and what the necessities of back/forward compabilities are.

Even if some say it for fun fully knowing what's it about, the "explain it to me in dbz power level terms" meme is here for a reason.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

What i find extremely interesting is what Richard says about existing Xbox One games and not just exclusives, unless i understand this wrong. It would mean that all those games automatically look and run better. He also called it a bold claim. And that is without any patches needed from the developer. That's quite awesome.

I still hope for patches for many many games though so that games like Hitman, Watch_Dogs 2, Deus Ex MD, Fallout 4, Skyrim SE, Mass Effect, Titanfall 2, BF1 are all brought to 4K and if not possible...checkerboard 4K.

 

[Matt]

Exactly they detailed that all the CPU core blocks are revised and customized. Again NOT jaguar.

If you take a Camaro and put a LS engine in it its not a camaro anymore

No, it's a Jag.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

This thing is the Xbox One version of a Dreamcast. That DX12 hardware is going to be hugely factored.

 

[scoobs]

Is there a timeline for XBox TWO or PS5? I don't want to drop $x00.00 CDN on this only for the next gen to come out 20 months later.

Welcome to the life of a pc gamer. Technology will start moving so fast, best advice I can give you is to just buy the best available when you are in the market for a new machine. There will ALWAYS be something better coming. I'm certain PlayStation will have some kind of answer to this within a couple years.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

But they said it was a customized and beefed up version of the Jaguar. Are they lying? Do you have receipts?

No it's the exact same Jaguar with the highest clocks yet. But there's hardware implemented DX12 to take the load off it for distributing GPU tasks. Leaving more room to do it's own stuff like game logic, physics etc.

In basic terms anyway. Nothing huge but still nice they have thrown some attention at it!

 

[Diprosalic]

How does the gpu compare to a 1070?

 

[Crzy1]

Looks good, I guess. Just recently got the One S, not much I want to play is on Xbox anymore, sadly. If the price is right, I may upgrade, but I'm guessing it's going to be $399 at the low end, which is a bit more than I'm willing to pay.

 

[Papacheeks]

I think that's blowing things out of proportion by quite a bit. Expecting your lower priced SKU to move more units is just logical. That doesn't meant they don't plan to sell many units of their new hardware.



Take some time to let your hype level out. As many others have stated, the components here shouldn't be twice as expensive as the One S. It's the way they've utilized the hardware that's impressive here. I don't see them taking a huge loss by pricing this thing at $399. Services like Xbox Live and Xbox game Pass can easily help them make up the difference.

There is no hype level for me I'm not interested in 4k or sub 4k console refreshes period. I don't own a PRO and I won't be owning a Scorpio. For what they talked about in terms of custom chip, revamped GPU which has 40 not 32-36 units, 12gb of memory, expensive cooling solution since there are no vents according to DF, only a blower style out the back.

If it is $399 then my hat's off to securing deals and getting manufacturing down. Or they are taking a huge hit on margin. But with the inside info Shinobi gave months back on how tight budget's for the xbox division are, and how they are being looked at under a microsope, i don't expect them to sell at a loss.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Theyll convert some of the hardcore, certainly not all at once but it's about rinsing off the stink of the XB1 launch, Kinect, game sharing controversy, power differential with ps4, etc.

There is a decent chunk of hardcore gamers who will buy this just to get the best multiplatform experience.

I've always felt power is the last reason why people were turned off from Xbox One. Xbox One S has done a good job turning the brand around so I think they can still win back the audience with some good first party announcements at E3. Not sure Scorpio really changes much.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Can anyone explain if there is a GPU equivalent or superior GPU? They mentioned that their GPU will surmount that of a PC but I also just don't understand how that is possible, even with their shader explanation.

People are using rx 480, but I'm observing slightly lower clock (higher than reference card) based on it's clock speed numbers. It's on a console though and consoles make good use of their specs to the last drop if needed (Horizon), so expect good things from Xbox ecxlusives.

RX 480 reference card specs (the first RX 480 blower style gpu).
GPU Clock: 1120 MHz
Boost Clock: 1266 MHz
Memory Clock: 2000 MHz (8000 MHz effective)
Memory Size: 8192 MB
Memory Type: GDDR5
Memory Bus: 256 bit
Bandwidth: 256.0 GB/s

 

[BuBBeRX]

The Pro is weird as some systems are super loud but others are very quiet. I've heard the difference myself when running the same games.

Amazing how Sony can't be consistent with their console builds.

Let's hope PS4 Pro Slim solve this.

 

[TerryLee81]

I don't care about the specs, I wanted to know what the system looks like

 

[SwolBro]

If it launches at $399 i'm all in day 1. Above this and i'll think about it.

I don't care about the specs, I wanted to know what the system looks like

People still care what a system looks like? I thought those days were over?

 

[EmiPrime]

It's viable if they sell it at cost (ie dont lose money) and enough hardcore gamers love it to spread the good word and gain some market share back for the Xbox brand.

They are trying to get the hardcore back on their system, which is the main reason ps4 took off like it did. Early adopters are hugely important.

I don't think there are enough people out there who will buy it at £500 to get the word out and by the time Scorpio would get down to a mass market price, it will be time for next gen.

MS aren't going to spunk all this money on R&D for a console that is priced so high only mega fans want it. They've always been extremely competitive on price with Xbox, the one time they weren't (Xbox One mandatory Kinect days) it blew up in their face.

 

[Kayant]

Amazing how the word "custom" is throwing people off so much.

 

[rawd]

'Jaguar Evolved' is fantastic marketing speak. I would expect nothing less from Microsoft.

lol

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

This is my thinking and has been since the Pro was announced and why I think 2020 is the latest:

These mid gen refreshes are going to serve as the starting point for the Next Gen. Right now it's PS4 / PS4Pro and XB1/XB Scorpio. In about 3 years support for XB1 and base PS4 is going to be dropped and the "Next Gen" is going to start but these newer machines will be the baseline for games. Meaning all games will be released on Pro / Scorpio and the new systems but no longer for base PS4 and XB1.

I personally think the era of traditional console generations are over.

I think you hit the nail on the head here with your assessment

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Theyll convert some of the hardcore, certainly not all at once but it's about rinsing off the stink of the XB1 launch, Kinect, game sharing controversy, power differential with ps4, etc.

There is a decent chunk of hardcore gamers who will buy this just to get the best multiplatform experience.

I am one of them; I will buy it even at 499. However, I think the system is going to suffer if they price it there.

 

[Interfectum]

No, it's a Jag.

Do you think there's any chance Sony can counter some of Scorpio's perks with a firmware and policy update? Perks being required supersampling, AF filtering on older games (improved boost mode?), etc.

 

[Chobel]

Since it's crow season

new customer design wins
high margin semi custom business (not console)
future outlook about financial impact.

THAT is what lisa is talking about


no we don't spin (at least not me). but some here interpret a quote wrong because they don't have or use the full context

I guess you know fuck all about "context" lol

 

[Z O N E]

The term you are looking for is "sponsored content".



It technically is a form of marketing, but based on facts. It's sponsored content from MS and DF is benefiting from the deal by having exclusivity over the official tech dump. It's hard data, but sounds mostly like something written for a Press Release.

Plus, the bump is there, but it's basically the same as the jump from PS4 to the Pro. The RAM will do a good lot, but my guess is that anything patched out for Scorpio will focus more on 4k than solid 60fps. I'm also not expecting 4k60 on this thing unless they make some concessions. Even with the larger RAM pool, faster RAM, and larger GPU, the CPU holds it back.

It's good jump, but not the stellar leap that I think a lot of people in this thread claim it to be.

Actually it's not "sponsored" content.

Legally, in the UK, if you are paid to sponsor something, you have to mention that it is a paid sponsorship.

Since DF is based in the UK, they would need to and since they haven't, it's just people like you pulling excuses out of thin air trying to downplay it.

 

[RdN]

Does anybody here ever seen this cooling solution Microsoft is implementing work?

Is it silent and efficient?

 

[Marmelade]

Amazing how Sony can't be consistent with their console builds.

Let's hope PS4 Pro Slim solve this.

The build quality of PS4 (Pro included) hardware is mediocre at best

 

[Tovarisc]

12GB GDDR5 is very good move by MS, take notes Sony!

 

[Nightmare452]

My guess is that if it would launch at 399 they would've screamed that from the rooftops.. or they might save that for E3?

Well, if they​ save it for E3, along some good game announcements, it looks good for MS being one day earlier than Sony now. Puts pressure that they also have a $400 system with superior specs to the Pro. It might matter for some (not most) when third party software is considered now better on the Scorpio.

 

[Kaako]

Exactly they detailed that all the CPU core blocks are revised and customized. Again NOT jaguar.

If you take a Camaro and put a LS engine in it its not a camaro anymore

LOL. It's still a Jaguar CPU in there.

 

[EmiPrime]

This is my thinking and has been since the Pro was announced and why I think 2020 is the latest:

These mid gen refreshes are going to serve as the starting point for the Next Gen. Right now it's PS4 / PS4Pro and XB1/XB Scorpio. In about 3 years support for XB1 and base PS4 is going to be dropped and the "Next Gen" is going to start but these newer machines will be the baseline for games. Meaning all games will be released on Pro / Scorpio and the new systems but no longer for base PS4 and XB1.

I personally think the era of traditional console generations are over.

Cerny has point blank ruled this out.

 

[Gitaroo]

So, just the RAM then? The rest of these are not huge drivers of price, the Pro comes with a 1TB drive and the 230$ XB1 S comes with a blu-ray drive. That's really not enough to come close to a 499$ entry price.

Thought they are loosing money on every xbone s unit

 

[Sony]

I'm slowly starting to realize how great of a job the Microsoft engineers have done with customizing off-the shelve parts and building tech around it to make an efficient as fuck console. Very impressive.

 

[toosejuice786]

Could u imagine if you could dual boot windows 10 on the Scorpio it would be an instant buy for me. Is it possible?

 

[Latvian Hitman]

People seem to still be confused on how console generations don't exist any more. See a lot of people talking about the pro and Scorpio being limited by base PS4 and xbo. These are moving targets that will continue to increase as time goes on, similar to the mobile phone market. I'd estimate about 24 months after launch you will start seeing a lot of exclusive pro and Scorpio games. Baring a huge shift in demand we won't see a ps5 or xbo successor for many year, if ever

But that's not how the mobile phone/tablet market works. Software gets gated off eventually for hardware that's truly too old to manage, but not in 24 months or anything close to that.

Does anybody here ever seen this cooling solution Microsoft is implementing work?

Is it silent and efficient?

A vapor chamber? It can definitely help, sure. You really have to consider all aspects of a cooling system working in tandem, though. Thus far in XB1's life cycle, MS has prioritized decibels over form factor/aesthetics, while Sony has tilted the opposite way. Assuming MS stays on that path, expect Scorpio to be a big, unwieldy, slightly ugly, but very quiet box.

 

[Space_nut]

No, it's a Jag.

Show me how it's a direct copied jag CPU just put in there?

Everything in DF article states a revised customized CPU. They may have started with a jag but they went through many revisions and redesigns.

It's not vanilla jag cores. From the article with the improvements to latency and cache they put features that are more advanced than jags. Just like the 360 gpu

Heck even DF says the whole system reminds them of 360 future proof features

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Exactly they detailed that all the CPU core blocks are revised and customized. Again NOT jaguar.

If you take a Camaro and put a LS engine in it its not a camaro anymore

 

[RootCause]

I think the 'It's a PS4 Pro version of the PS4 Pro' description pretty solid, but it launches a year later and so far it will probably be a bit more expensive. But it's still the same generation. The fact (same for PS4 and PS4 Pro) will run the same games will mean that stuff will still be limited by the OG PS4 and OG Xbox One specs.

Wouldn't a pro version of a pro be like 2.3x the performance? I was told it wasn't the case earlier in this thread.

This should be about 50% stronger than the Pro.

 

[Kayant]

Since it's crow season



I guess you know fuck all about "context" lol

 

[Chobel]

Show me how it's a direct copied jag CPU just put in there?

Everything in DF article states a revised customized CPU. They may have started with a jag but they went through many revisions and redesigns.

It's not vanilla jag cores

lol

 

[ironcreed]

No it's the exact same Jaguar with the highest clocks yet. But there's hardware implemented DX12 to take the load off it for distributing GPU tasks. Leaving more room to do it's own stuff like game logic, physics etc.

In basic terms anyway. Nothing huge but still nice they have thrown some attention at it!

He specifically says that it is a customized, improved version of the Jaguar. Built on the same tech, but faster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vDCUcGPTWg&t=0s

At 1:24.

 

[oti]

Exactly they detailed that all the CPU core blocks are revised and customized. Again NOT jaguar.

If you take a Camaro and put a LS engine in it its not a camaro anymore

The thing called jaguar is not jaguar?

 

[Matt]

Show me how it's a direct copied jag CPU just put in there?

Everything in DF article states a revised customized CPU. They may have started with a jag but they went through many revisions and redesigns.

It's not vanilla jag cores

You are getting way too wrapped up in the customizations. It's a Jag, absolutely.

It's not a car with a new engine, it's a car with new tires. And maybe some tweaks under the hood.

 

[Keyouta]

Very exciting. The performance looks amazing, I think it has great specs, even if the CPU is a little disappointing to me. But, I wasn't really expecting Ryzen anyway. As someone who loves powerful systems and has a 980ti in the PC, I'm looking forward to what this console can push. Expecting $600 CAD, if it's $500 I'll probably think I was dreaming.

 

[Harp]

Not sure how some of you are stating that the Scorpio isn't that much more powerful than the pro when the specs are right there. Over 40% more CPU power, 1.8 tf higher, and 3 gb more ram directly for games. How is that not much more? Scorpio literally towers over it in all aspects.

You forgot to account for, naughty dog, guerrilla, santa Monica studio, and Sonys 8 other studios. And you will see the race is still not even close. But just on pure power stand point the scorpio is a beast. But what will they do with it.

 

[Kayant]

Show me how it's a direct copied jag CPU just put in there?

Everything in DF article states a revised customized CPU. They may have started with a jag but they went through many revisions and redesigns.

It's not vanilla jag cores

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

 

[Samurai G0SU]

What is MS enables some type of "GAME MODE" so that they free up more RAM for the game allowing up to 9GB!!!??

the extra 1gb of ram is for native 4k dashboard, but what about those with 1080p sets that do not want the downsampled 4k dashboard ?? hmmm hmmm???

HOW BOUH DAH?

 

[Marmelade]

Show me how it's a direct copied jag CPU just put in there?

Everything in DF article states a revised customized CPU. They may have started with a jag but they went through many revisions and redesigns.

It's not vanilla jag cores

I'm cautious of every supposed "revised" or "customized" part after what happened with the Switch

 

[Maintenance]

From the beginning MS said the specs and they delivered exactly that.

They also said that this would be a premium product, and going by what happened with the specs I do believe the warnings and that this will not be 399.

 

[Markoman]

I'm slowly starting to realize how great of a job the Microsoft engineers have done with customizing off-the shelve parts and building tech around it to make an efficient as fuck console. Very impressive.

Lol, console-war Ghandi. Like your avatar and tag

 

[Musky_Cheese]

At 499 they will not be gaining anything back from Sony. MS has to know this.

To be fair, even if they launched at $399, they still aren't gonna gain much.

Outside of the USA and U.K., Xbox hasn't sold all that well. And a more expensive option to Xbox One isn't going to change that. Or change much in regions Xbox sells well.

The Pro is the same way. Even if the Pro dropped to 300-350 this fall, the Slim and the S is where the bulk of the sales are going to come from for both companies. Unless both models where discontinued, and that's not going to happen.

The Pro and Scorpio aren't going to change much.

 

[Ricky_R]

lol

I guess you're up for a tag update. At least to show a slight improvement.

 

[Matt]

Do you think there's any chance Sony can counter some of Scorpio's perks with a firmware and policy update? Perks being required supersampling, AF filtering on older games (improved boost mode?), etc.

For those examples, I would think it's possible.