And that depth is what makes the game so fantastic. I don't think any other game has put so much effort into making you feel the weight of your decisions.
One easter egg and you are saying something like this?
I feel the opposite. I don't feel any pay off for most of my kills (well, non-lethal routes included) and this was more the exception to the rule. It's that and stuff people say over the loud speaker.
And that depth is what makes the game so fantastic. I don't think any other game has put so much effort into making you feel the weight of your decisions.
One easter egg and you are saying something like this?
I feel the opposite. I don't feel any pay off for most of my kills (well, non-lethal routes included) and this was more the exception to the rule. It's that and stuff people say over the loud speaker.
One? Riposte there are a staggering amount of differences between a Lethal and Non Lethal play through. It can be a big moment like that or smaller ones where the chatter of general people isn't so dark and gloomy and you overhear conversations of all that your doing in a more favorable light. Emily's whole demeanor is especially different. I think that's pretty impressive
One? Riposte there are a staggering amount of differences between a Lethal and Non Lethal play through. It can be a big moment like that or smaller ones where the chatter of general people isn't so dark and gloomy and you overhear conversations of all that your doing in a more favorable light. Emily's whole demeanor is especially different. I think that's pretty impressive
Is it really impressive in light of Alpha Protocol, The Witcher 2, or even the Mass Effect series?
(What I meant by the "loud speaker" line was how the game may exchange a few lines of dialogue, but it is little more than that. Binary systems are for the worse anyway, you are not actually looking at your actions, but an accumulated score.)
Is it really impressive in light of Alpha Protocol, The Witcher 2, or even the Mass Effect series?
(What I meant by the "loud speaker" line was how the game may exchange a few lines of dialogue, but it is little more than that. Binary systems are for the worse anyway, you are not actually looking at your actions, but an accumulated score.)
I didn't play AP but I remember feeling like ME2 was a joke. All you got was a cut-scene if that. I remember going through all this effort upgrading my ship to be a damn Juggernaut and I was rewarded by getting a cutscene where someone doesn't die from the ship not blowing its shite. That's ridiculous
I didn't play AP but I remember feeling like ME2 was a joke. All you got was a cut-scene if that. I remember going through all this effort upgrading my ship to be a damn Juggernaut and I was rewarded by getting a cutscene where someone doesn't die from the ship not blowing its shite. That's ridiculous
I don't think Mass Effect is very good at this (its only half-way decent if you look at the whole trilogy as one game, but even then, disappointing) and I hold some contempt towards it, but consider this: you saw a reaction to that particular choice. In Dishonored, most of the time the "moral" choices (certainly all of the most effectual ones) comes down to the game looking at a sum of your choices (+good or +bad) and picking one of two themes. Sure, there are tags at play and they show up with occasional dialogue switches and an occasional easter egg, but I have hard time accepting this as impressive and let alone among the best.
I don't think Mass Effect is very good at this (its only half-way decent if you look at the whole trilogy as one game, but even then, disappointing) and I hold some contempt towards it, but consider this: you saw a reaction to that particular choice. In Dishonored, most of the time the "moral" choices (certainly all of the most effectual ones) comes down to the game looking at a sum of your choices (+good or +bad) and picking one of two themes. Sure, there are tags at play and they show up with occasional dialogue switches and an occasional easter egg, but I have hard time accepting this as impressive and let alone among the best.
I'm with you on that. I believe it could be a lot lot better but I don't really see anything that surpasses it in that regard but maybe that's more of a reflection of how bad any attempts have been made in general. All I know is its done well enough I'm playing through the game again to see whatever it has to offer. Something ME and Witcher never inspired me to do. Again though that might have to do more with how much I like the world they established
this may have been covered, but i can just now come in here to ask it.
did anyone else see the key behind the street barricade by the hound pits pub in dark vision?
from the pub, looking to the abandoned apartment, it is to the left. it did not disappear from mission to mission. i do not have a picture. probably was a glitch.
Enjoyed the game but felt there weren't enough powers for stealth. for example no AoE or drop down tranq skills.
Seeing the names in the credits i was like what the fuck?!
I noticed susan surandon upon my first granny meeting, but everything else was odd.
Only thing I found was a journal/memo in a later mission, I want to say the palace, but it mentioned that Boyle was missing and they have no idea where she could have gone.
I find it interesting that so many people consider the nonlethal outcomes for the targets worse than outright killing them. This is veering away from game discussion and more about ethics, but isn't up to the individual whose life is in question to make that decision, rather than the would-be murderer? In other words, it's always better to spare a life so long as the target has some measure of agency afterward. If the Pendletons or Lady Boyle find their ultimate situation worse than death, they have the ability to end their own lives, and it's right to let them be the ones to make that choice.
The game has some prebaked stuff in with nonlethal kills, but there's a lot it doesn't take into consideration that is a massive oversight. In the first mission I went into slackjaw's area and killed EVERYONE, not even cleanly, they knew I was there. I finished Granny Rag's mission and when I returned to the area for the next mission, they were all non lethal like always, and Slackjaw still just mentioned the same thing as always, that someone poisoned his supply. Nothing about the horde of murdered corpses or that Corvo himself was there. I even let some people live to see if that would happen.
I've also read some posts about dialog changing, but a lot of it seems randomized instead of being based on your high/low chaos. Like this:
This game is so fantastic. It changes so much going through on low-chaos compared to high. The citizens of Dunwall are actually better people.
After the first mission to kill Campbell on your way to Samuel at the boat there is a wharehouse where two guards are convinced their friend has the plague and he is trying desperately to convince them that isn't the case but they murder him anyways. On this play-through I come to that spot and the guard is begging them to kill him so he doesn't infect them or his family and they are trying to convince him they can cure him and will give him all their elixirs if they need to. "Can you kill me...Before I weep..Please can you do it Stine? I have known you longest"
they murdered him while he tried to convince them he wasn't sick. On my high chaos? Same thing. On a second high chaos? He said the kill me before I weep line.
They aren't better or worse people, this is just randomized to give a fresher effect and potentially the allure of you making a difference. The game just has a specific set of checks to make and beyond that nothing you do is really considered.
Samuel is a good example of this. 99% of the game he acts the same towards Corvo regardless of how you go about your business. It's that last percent on high chaos where out of nowhere he abruptly changes. Very oddly handled to me.
The game has some prebaked stuff in with nonlethal kills, but there's a lot it doesn't take into consideration that is a massive oversight. In the first mission I went into slackjaw's area and killed EVERYONE, not even cleanly, they knew I was there. I finished Granny Rag's mission and when I returned to the area for the next mission, they were all non lethal like always, and Slackjaw still just mentioned the same thing as always, that someone poisoned his supply. Nothing about the horde of murdered corpses or that Corvo himself was there. I even let some people live to see if that would happen.
I've also read some posts about dialog changing, but a lot of it seems randomized instead of being based on your high/low chaos. Like this:
On my low chaos,
they murdered him while he tried to convince them he wasn't sick. On my high chaos? Same thing. On a second high chaos? He said the kill me before I weep line.
They aren't better or worse people, this is just randomized to give a fresher effect and potentially the allure of you making a difference. The game just has a specific set of checks to make and beyond that nothing you do is really considered.
Samuel is a good example of this. 99% of the game he acts the same towards Corvo regardless of how you go about your business. It's that last percent on high chaos where out of nowhere he abruptly changes. Very oddly handled to me.
Only thing I found was a journal/memo in a later mission, I want to say the palace, but it mentioned that Boyle was missing and they have no idea where she could have gone.
I found that one to be one of the more bizarre non-lethal options -
The Boyle's didn't seem that bad - a rich, arrogant family certainly - but sending her away, unconscious, with some random admirer? I think she'd rather have died. There is a note left for you in your room though - from one of the Boyle women - thanking you for sparing their lives - I think it's from one of the two other sisters though
I found that one to be one of the more bizarre non-lethal options -
The Boyle's didn't seem that bad - a rich, arrogant family certainly - but sending her away, unconscious, with some random admirer? I think she'd rather have died. There is a note left for you in your room though - from one of the Boyle women - thanking you for sparing their lives - I think it's from one of the two other sisters though
Yeah, I've been kind of disappointed with the lack of difference between my initial high chaos/kill everything in sight run through Dishonored and my low chaos/non-lethal playthrough. Initially I wasn't aware of the fact that player actions could "affect the world" in my first playthrough Dishonored. When I first encountered Granny Rags
and helped her out with some thugs from the Bottle Street Gang that were harassing her, I had no qualms with her second quest of poisoning the Bottle Street Gang's elixir distillery.
It was a task with a reward, I didn't think there would be a "consequence" given that most games nowadays don't have those unless there's an immediately obvious binary choice. "Do you want to save the kitten stranded in the tree or drown a bag of puppies?"
Next mission in the same area in my initial high chaos playthough
more apartments are sealed up, there's a greater level of security with those sentry towers now being in place, more rat hordes roam the street and weepers were now wandering many of the side streets.
It was then the game provided me with the pop-up that informed me that my actions affected the world around me. It kind of socked me in the gut because it appeared as though I had made the world a much more horrible place with my actions. Dishonored made me pause for a moment, evaluate what I had done but then because I had already started down the path I committed to being a proper villain bent exacting bloody revenge. Plus all of the powers and lethal gadgets are really fun to use. On my second, non-lethal playthrough that same area the only difference was
there were fewer rats and no weepers. I had hoped because I had not tainted the Bottle Street Gangs elixir supply, which they sell to the general public in that area, that not only would there be fewer rats and no weepers, but fewer apartments would be boarded up and filled with corpses as well. I had also hoped because I hadn't killed a single soul up to that point in the game that the security in that area would not have been escalated, that there would be no towers, just guards patrolling the streets but this was not the case either.
There was no difference between my lethal/high chaos and non-lethal/low chaos except for the addition of an enemy type and one hazard.
Dishonored is still a great game but the differences between playthrough styles, the affect the player has on the world isn't that dramatic or staggering thus far.
I wouldn't go that far...maybe make it fade a bit sooner, maybe give it a higher mana cost. It's a great tool to have, but it can be abused to high-hell. No different from any of Corvo's other skills, I guess.
I wouldn't go that far...maybe make it fade a bit sooner, maybe give it a higher mana cost. It's a great tool to have, but it can be abused to high-hell. No different from any of Corvo's other skills, I guess.
The ability to see through walls is so... I can't quite think of the word. It's a lazy mechanic for stealth playthroughs - if they replaced the vision with JUST the ability to hear sounds then that might be good. As it stands the ability to see through walls makes it too easy for cautious players to remain completely invisible throughout most of the game.
Wrapped up my first playthrough tonight - high chaos. Ending was indeed quite abrupt, though I expected it going in so it didn't bother me so much. The high chaos ending wasn't quite as "dark" as I thought it would be, so the low chaos ending must be practically cheery in comparison.
My biggest complaint, story-wise,
is that the Outsider is never really fleshed out and we never get a conclusion as far as his character is concerned. I expected him to largely remain a mystery - I preferred it, in fact - but he just sort of existed to give you neat powers and turn you lose. Think about it: the game would remain largely the same if you removed the Outsider, and just had Corvo gain his powers from a magic amulet, or something. There should have been more Outsider worshippers like Granny Rags, or maybe tie him to the rat plague and the "Doom of Pandyssia", whatever the hell that is supposed to be. Hope to see more of the Outsider in the DLC.
I now begin my second playthrough, no kills, as little sightings as possible.
sea leviathan/ancient Pandyssian monster/primal Nature God and humanity's destruction of the whales irks him greatly. So he's playing the long game of wiping us out over time.
Some people stumble after you exit possession so you can get someone to walk into a wall of light. Also
in the brothel mission, I killed the soldier in the steam room and left the girl by herself and scared, when I walked off a bit I heard a noise and came back to find her dead.
In regards to the second, there are ways to do it with powers but you can straight up angle yourself to sandwich an enemy between you and someone trying to shoot you and they will not give a shit and shoot them instead.
The ability to see through walls is so... I can't quite think of the word. It's a lazy mechanic for stealth playthroughs - if they replaced the vision with JUST the ability to hear sounds then that might be good. As it stands the ability to see through walls makes it too easy for cautious players to remain completely invisible throughout most of the game.
Cautious play will make you invisible regardless. It's more of a crutch for people (saner than me) who don't want to watch patrol routes for five minutes.
they murdered him while he tried to convince them he wasn't sick. On my high chaos? Same thing. On a second high chaos? He said the kill me before I weep line.
They aren't better or worse people, this is just randomized to give a fresher effect and potentially the allure of you making a difference.
They're either in the Golden Room and Steam Room or in the Ivory Room and Smoking Room. At first I thought low chaos gave you one and high chaos the other, but it's completely randomized. This is kind of annoying if you're unlucky and try to go for every achievement/trophy, because one of them requires one of the Pendletons to be in the Steam Room.
I don't think Mass Effect is very good at this (its only half-way decent if you look at the whole trilogy as one game, but even then, disappointing) and I hold some contempt towards it, but consider this: you saw a reaction to that particular choice. In Dishonored, most of the time the "moral" choices (certainly all of the most effectual ones) comes down to the game looking at a sum of your choices (+good or +bad) and picking one of two themes. Sure, there are tags at play and they show up with occasional dialogue switches and an occasional easter egg, but I have hard time accepting this as impressive and let alone among the best.
I don't know, I don't feel like the game has a necessarily "good" choice to select (as others have noted, the non-lethal choice doesn't always seem like the "good" choice), but you're right insofar as the fact that the game does deal with them as binaries. You could go further down the rabbit whole and surmise that if all of your choices are purportedly "bad", then you have no choice, but I'm not going to do that.. I suppose regardless of whether they're "good choices", they ultimately contribute to a what is supposed to be a "good" or "bad" ending, which is admittedly a little disappointing, but to be expected.
Granted, the easter egg was essentially a technical parlour trick - but I was impressed by the manner in which the decision's consequence occurred. I didn't feel like it was thrown in my face like say, InFamous 2, Army of Two: The 40th Day (shining examples, I know!) or, to a lesser extent, the Mass Effect series would. Even if behind the scenes the ultimate conclusion is still "you did X so Y" in Dishonored, the consequence in question was not immediate nor was it too obvious. Often a game says exactly what you will achieve or acquire, even before you make your choice. InFamous 2, for example, not only tells you which powers you will acquire, but also the specific story consequence of that choice (IIRC). Sometimes a game simply doesn't make enough of your choice, like how AoT plays out the overwrought consequence in a motion comic that has no direct impact on the game itself.
By comparison,
Campbell's ultimate fate
was not something I was notified of (merely alluded to) beforehand, nor was there an immediate "payoff". His appearance was, to my perception, happenstance, for I didn't anticipate my going to the
Flooded District later in the game
and when I did, I was not expecting to stumble upon him. Truth be told, I had forgotten - and for that I can appreciate the ruse, even if was something that may not have made a huge impact story-wise. It was an unassuming follow-up that I felt had an emotional impact in light of what happens to the character, and an interesting turn on the "good" choice because you've essentially sent him to his death, you've just given him a slow, agonizing one instead. I like to think that it's altogether possible that a player who vies for the non-lethal option might not experience that "reunion" later in the game, and I kind of like that, too.
I think that might be enough for tonight.. I'm tired but hopefully that might make sense to somebody, anyways. It's going to be funny having this same conversation when some years have passed, and we're complaining about these kinds of games having just 10 or 20 variables to their choices...
They're either in the Golden Room and Steam Room or in the Ivory Room and Smoking Room. At first I thought low chaos gave you one and high chaos the other, but it's completely randomized. This is kind of annoying if you're unlucky and try to go for every achievement/trophy, because one of them requires one of the Pendletons to be in the Steam Room.
sea leviathan/ancient Pandyssian monster/primal Nature God and humanity's destruction of the whales irks him greatly. So he's playing the long game of wiping us out over time.
Yeah I stumbled upon a interesting piece of dialogue in the
Boylan mission between two people talking. They basically said there is evidence of a whole other city under Dunwall that used Leviathans for oil and just disappeared.
Did Havelock poison Martin and Pendleton? I don't remember it saying they were unconscious, but I might have been wrong. It seemed like Havelock seemed a little..disheveled right before I made him blow his face off, lmao
Did Havelock poison Martin and Pendleton? I don't remember it saying they were unconscious, but I might have been wrong. It seemed like Havelock seemed a little..disheveled right before I made him blow his face off, lmao
I just got out of the prison and got to that resistance hotel place and Im really impressed seeing as how I stopped playing a few weeks ago in the sewers. Changed my mind!
Is it just me or is possession 2 not actually all that great? I just took over a dude and when it ended, it put me in front of him and he immediately saw me and called for more guards.
Is it just me or is possession 2 not actually all that great? I just took over a dude and when it ended, it put me in front of him and he immediately saw me and called for more guards.
Oh ok.well coupled with the fact you can't use them to kill anyone, and it lasts such a short time, I think my runes may be better spent somewhere else.
Is it just me or is possession 2 not actually all that great? I just took over a dude and when it ended, it put me in front of him and he immediately saw me and called for more guards.
I used Possession a whole bunch, often times I'd walk the guy to a dark corner, pop out, strangehold him into submission and hide the body. I don't think I ever used it to successfully get through an area by just walking, though. It was always to get the guard to walk away from his post so I could strangle him.
In other news, beat the game today. Spoilers on the final level:
The final confrontation leaves a lot to be desired. I just snuck up on Havelock and shot him in the back with a sleep dart. No explanation, no talking, nothing. I guess Daud was the real final "boss" fight so to speak, since you had to be creative with disposing of him, but I would have liked at least some sort of challenge when dispensing of Havelock. At least have all three of the conspirators alive.
Overall, though, definitely a top 2 game of the year. My GOTY is either this or XCOM for sure, nothing else released this year comes close.
In other news, beat the game today. Spoilers on the final level:
The final confrontation leaves a lot to be desired. I just snuck up on Havelock and shot him in the back with a sleep dart. No explanation, no talking, nothing. I guess Daud was the real final "boss" fight so to speak, since you had to be creative with disposing of him, but I would have liked at least some sort of challenge when dispensing of Havelock. At least have all three of the conspirators alive.
in fact if he had some elaborate setup it would've detracted from the scene. I enjoy that they just kept him as a regular enemy, barely removed from any of the other generic guards or thugs you'd come across. He was just a man that let power go to his head, and he let his short sighted ambitions blind him. Ultimately the supernatural assassin that's been going through suicide missions unscathed was going to make short work of him.
Though I hope by no talking you mean not to Corvo directly, because he does murmur to himself for a bit if you just lurk around the area.
I used Possession a whole bunch, often times I'd walk the guy to a dark corner, pop out, strangehold him into submission and hide the body. I don't think I ever used it to successfully get through an area by just walking, though. It was always to get the guard to walk away from his post so I could strangle him.
In other news, beat the game today. Spoilers on the final level:
The final confrontation leaves a lot to be desired. I just snuck up on Havelock and shot him in the back with a sleep dart. No explanation, no talking, nothing. I guess Daud was the real final "boss" fight so to speak, since you had to be creative with disposing of him, but I would have liked at least some sort of challenge when dispensing of Havelock. At least have all three of the conspirators alive.
Overall, though, definitely a top 2 game of the year. My GOTY is either this or XCOM for sure, nothing else released this year comes close.
Oh ok.well coupled with the fact you can't use them to kill anyone, and it lasts such a short time, I think my runes may be better spent somewhere else.
Jump out of it by pressing the trigger again instead of waiting for the power to end and you end up right behind them for an instant kill or KO. Use the time you have to walk them somewhere out of sight.
Is it just me or is possession 2 not actually all that great? I just took over a dude and when it ended, it put me in front of him and he immediately saw me and called for more guards.
The final confrontation leaves a lot to be desired. I just snuck up on Havelock and shot him in the back with a sleep dart. No explanation, no talking, nothing.
He talks to you if you just walk up to him and let yourself be known. If you do that he says that you may take Emily's room key and how it doesn't matter to him if you kill him or take him to Coldridge prison, because he has realized it has all been for nothing. However, this seems to be glitched (at least in my game), because as soon as I picked up the key he still attacked me even though he just basically gave himself up.
