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Disney’s Frozen [OT] – They Pulled Another Tangled!

Rated-G

Member
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Hi, Kirblar.

I want to illustrate a thought along the lines of what you, and I think even Rated-G, are saying: the theme, in of itself, is what's important here and is non arguable and I think we can all agree that the theme is that of overcoming repression. That's what "Let it go" is about.

Now that theme resonates with everyone but how it is defined is personal (does it mean overcoming abuse ala Rated -G story, or coming out to a society that has labeled you as inappropriate, etc.). That's going to differ across the globe as people watch this. Then there is the issue of what it means to the character, Elsa, in of herself. People WILL project their own stories into her character, when, in context to the movie, she is coming to terms with accepting an element about her characer, here a fantasy element of the movie: magic, which nearly killed her sister; said element was in no way ever hinted to serve as a metaphor for anything else specifically . We know, watching the movie, she nearly killed her sister and she repressed that guilt, and herself, at her parent's suggestion. You can not nearly kill someone being gay, or being a female, etc.

But the point is, the theme still stands and that is what resonates, that is what the song is about. it is a theme that resonated in the other works, which I have also seen.

Cheers, guys.

I just realized I was misreading your posts, I didn't realize you were talking about people actually inferring their interpretations applied to the characters as well as/instead of themselves. I mean, they're welcome to do that, but now I do see the point of contention here. People can read the situation as a metaphor for other things that can apply to a given situation, but yes, it is different if they are reading it into what the movie is "really" about. If it gives more meaning to a person to interpret the meaning of a film a certain way, more power to them. I don't think there's a wrong way to interpret anything, as long as it doesn't influence others.

For me, Frozen is a look at the different ways people can react to love; romantic, familial, platonic, whatever, or a lack of it in their lives. Love can exist in many... any form. Love can mean as much as you want it to. It can heal, if nurtured, and hurt if neglected. It's a very broad look at the film, but it has a broad reach, a universal meaning.

I could interpret the tiara in Tangled to be a representation of Rapunzel's virginity or something, and figure out a way to apply it to my life, or put some sort of additional meaning on that object or lines in the film, but in the end, for the story's purpose, the tiara is merely an item of monetary value to Flynn, and personal/emotional value to Rapunzel. I'd never imply that was what I was supposed to infer from that inanimate object in the film, but regardless, my mind will make a connection based on my own experiences or knowledge. I guess some people will just take that connection and insist that it is fact, or intention.

This was supposed to connect to the conversation somehow but I just got called away to a meeting and I lost my train of thought... and don't want to delete the post. I think it's all open to interpretation, but to push that interpretation on people, to shame them if they don't reach the same conclusions, or if they choose not to read or project into the intentions of a musical number is where I agree I can't lend my support.

I understand the connections people have made to Elsa and other social and emotional issues, and I get their interpretations, but I don't feel any of them represent the "true meaning" of the film, or her character. But I do appreciate that the words and messages portrayed in the film have taken on new meaning for people, and transcended the medium.

Companies have an interest in offending the least amount of people possible in order to increase revenues; if they have to ignore or deny some affirmations about their products, that's what they'll do, even if it's a bunch of lies.

I think this exactly is what I wanted to get at with one of my earlier posts. I don't want to put words in the studio/filmmaker's mouths, but we really don't know if there's any intentional subtext to be inferred. I do know that the studio is not likely to provide an answer that leans toward any particular stance.

I never said that the interpretation was the creators' intentions.

And that's a good point, I've seen a lot of interpretations of the film, and specifically Elsa's arc, but I've yet to see someone actually trying to push their take on the film as gospel. It does happen with many other films and works of art, so I do understand the concern.
 
Saw this tonight, it was great. I feel like Tangled was just a bit better but it was awesome. Anna is so damn adorable and by far the best princess in the film (sorry Elsa fans).

I also don't buy the whole "Let it Go" is a representation of sexuality bit. It was a girl who was afraid of her abilities and could finally use them without hurting or scaring anyone (or so she thought, anyway).
 

Blackhead

Redarse
There is nothing to understand. That is contrary to what Jennifer Lee and Robert Lopez have said. I am not interested in other people's ability to project their own thoughts on the matter. If you can provide me with a quote where the creators have confirmed this, that'll be fine. Additionally, Disney is a conservative company and a song about sexual emancipation is not what a company like Disney delievers to four year old girls...

Or are my "critical senses" compromised?

Their intention does not matter. The intentions of the minds behind art can be used to support a theory, but cannot be used to completely invalide found arguments taken from the piece of art itself. Everything one needs to interpret a work of art is in the work itself. If it can be interpreted in a way unintended by the author(s), then so be it.


I never said that the interpretation was the creators' intentions.

yea, really got to question your "critical senses" here, SomewhatGroovy. AuthenticM is just applying intro to modern criticism 101. Authors can lie, be mistaken, forgetful or straight up trolling about their intentions and meanings. And of course Authors could intend to show something but fail to properly convey that meaning. That's why many critics suggest looking primarily at the text.

Here's an interesting video on whether the author's words are the final say on a piece of media:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVm65tlhqw8
 
I did not simply discuss intent but I did use actual content from the film itself to elaborate a very fair point that, in actually, supports even your right to interpretations. And they are just that: interpretations. I think I understand now that we agree with that. Interpretations are personal. Yet you impose your own as fact as depicted by your top post, first paragraph, last sentence ("it IS a celebration of female..." etc) and dismiss entirely what is on screen. It may be simply your choice of words that is throwing me off here because that sounds like gospel to me.

You're reading too much into that sentence of mine and it's leading to false presumptions. I did not mean it that way.

Ok, fine, but in reality, it is highly irrelevant to the plot and the characters. You are resonating with a theme and it is taking you to issues of female emancipation; a silly notion, as she wasn't repressed for being a female or her sexuality both which were never explored on film while others, much less her sister, walk freely. She was repressed for powers that nearly killed her sister as a child. Sexuality explortion for a child doesn't kill other people!. Anna nearly dying was an elaborate plot device, not a metaphor.

I think you have difficulty distinguishing text versus subtext; you're being too literal in your observations and are going at it the wrong way. If Elsa's powers represent her sexuality, then her using her powers is her displaying her sexuality.

Take the beginning scene of Elsa and Anna playing with snow in the castle's halls. The text is Elsa joyfully playing with her sister in the snow, but the subtext is Elsa displaying her sexuality in front of her sister by behaving without hiding and conceiling it as she has been told by her parents. When she hits Anna in the head with a shard of ice and her hair turns white, the subtext is saying that Elsa has influenced her sister (as in, put thoughts "in her head") to the point where she might start acting like Elsa. Her parents storm in, her father shame-inducingly scolds her by saying "What have you done?!", and Elsa feels ashamed.

The castle is shut down and Elsa is seperated from her sister, all for the goal of preventing the outside world or just about anyone from seeing her for whom she really is. She is given clothing that hides her skin from the feet to the neck, complete with a pair of gloves, and is told to "be a good girl". Fast forward to the coronation when Anna takes off one of Elsa's gloves, revealing her skin, her powers and her identity, Elsa is again wrought with shame, feeling the scorn of everyone looking at her, and decides to flee her judgemental and puritanical society, to a place where she can be free, liberated, and where she can simply "let it go".

And indeed does she let it go. The scene in question starts with Elsa draped in her usual robe, singing softly and has a body language betraying her insecurity and shamefulness. As the scene goes on, Elsa's behavior becomes more confident and affirmative, she sings louder, displays happiness for the first time in forever (wink!) and dons herself in a very suggestive robe, complete with the behavior:

tumblr_inline_n07e0ldNo31rnhcq8.gif

(dat hip swinging)

She builds a castle and decides to stay there, alone, where she can play with her "powers" (read: flaunt her sexuality) without anyone berating her for it.

This entire scene makes it extremely easy to interpret the subtext as celebrating sexual emancipation and taking a dump on puritanical values. In fact, considering how à propos the lyrics are and how bold and vivid the images are in this scene, the line between text and subtext becomes a lot less discernable, and makes me believe with strong conviction that the writers and directors knew exactly what they were doing. They had to be aware of how people would interpret that scene, and the movie by extension. Because there is simply no way that the people who are smart and savvy enough to craft such an excellent and beautiful film would have the symbols and interpretations fly fifty feet above their heads. Not only is it nigh impossible, but to presume such a thing would be a grave insult to their intelligence. They had to know. And them not acknowledging it would be because they work for Disney (no less) and there is no way that this company would ever send out a press release boldly proclaming: "We made a film telling little girls that it is okay for them to act as sluts." As I said before though, intent doesn't really matter; so even if they were truly unaware that they were making a slut-positive movie, it just wouldn't invalidate what's to be found in the movie.

It doesn't stop there though ! The film is actually a little more conservative than most people think. Later on, when Anna reveals to Elsa the extent of the damage her "powers" did to the country and its people (read: the extent of the influence her sex-positive behavior had), Elsa is again wrought with insecurity, doubt and guilt, questions if it's even possible for her to be happy and at peace, and once again starts losing control over her powers. At the end of the film, when Anna sacrifices herself to save her sister (and herself, no less !), Elsa finally realizes that for her to have complete control over her powers, she needs love. Because love cures all. So in what this can be interpreted is that the movie is saying to girls: "It's okay and commendable for you to talk, walk and act as sluts, as long as you do it within the confines of love, because loveless sluttiness leads to uncontroled behavior and harms everyone around you."

In any case, that's what I got from the movie.
 
Got to see this finally (with my brother who posted a bit further up). My thoughts:

- To get out of the way, I did prefer Tangled. This was an excellent film, but the front-loaded songs and pacing overall felt odd.

- Really like Anna and Elsa's relationship when Elsa acts normal around her.

- Anna is as cute as a button, hell as cute as an entire factory that creates buttons.

- Songs didn't stick with me like the classic Disney stuff. Do You Want to Build a Snowman was the best IMO. No villain song either, but I can give it a pass since they were going for the twist.

- big retreads of themes in Enchanted. Almost like they didn't think people would have seen both. Kristoff and Anna's conflict was Robert and Giselle's nearly to the letter.

As for the "Let it Go" sequence...not sexual. At all.

Elsa's conflict with her power is purely due to the trauma of not wanting to kill anyone like she nearly did Anna. You see them play at it when Hans talks her down from bodying those redshirts. I would think the fact that she's happiest with zero human contact and considers that "free" would be a pretty big tell that Elsa's only interest (and obviously not a sexual one) is Anna and her wellbeing.

For those familiar with Final Fantasy, Elsa is pretty much Terra Branford. The desire to be isolated, trying to be "normal" but internally fighting herself, the complete non-focus on sexual or romantic interaction (they let Anna fill that role) and the fact that love of family ends up being the catalyst that allows both characters to go ham with the magic.
 
However, it is such a random assertion, I cannot even begin to fathom how you even came to the conclusion that sexuality is subtext here. It is about as random as inserting that she was asserting religion, philosophy, politics, etc.

As others have pointed out, Anna was nearly killed. I'm not sure how you confuse nearly killing someone with asserting a social position as a social and personal position can not, in of itself, as I have mentioned many times over on this page, cannot kill someone. You are deliberately ignoring this point and telling others to ignore the literal words to give your position a standing chance of holding true to you.

I really cannot put it any more clearly. If you cannot see it with how I've put it so elaborately, then... I cannot help you.
 

zroid

Banned
How do the litho's look like? Also local Disney stores do pre-orders for Frozen that includes the free lithos?

I didn't pre-order but when I was at a store a few days ago I got to see the lithos. They are pretty big. Not postcard-sized. Art is what you'd expect. (that should answer your second question as well :p )

fwiw you also get a coupon worth $20 off a future purchase of $40+, or $10 off a future purchase of $10+. Pretty good if you're a frequenter of Disney stores.
 

Mariolee

Member
I absolutely cannot stop listening to Love is an Open Door. I think it might be my favorite track just because of how positive and bubbly it is.
 
I absolutely cannot stop listening to Love is an Open Door. I think it might be my favorite track just because of how positive and bubbly it is.

Yep that's my current track I can't stop listening to! We were doing the "Mental Synchronization" little dance at the Disney Store the other day over it xD
 

Nyanko

Neo Member
LOVED this movie. I cried at the very first scene, where Anna and Elsa are playing together in the castle...it just had this beautiful innocence and playfulness to it that I can't recall from any other Disney film in recent times.

But the movie itself was excellent, too.
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
This is the first I've read that Frozen and Tangled are supposed to exist in the same world. Mind blown. I always thought the Disney princesses and other characters were largely independent of each other, in their own worlds.
 
This is the first I've read that Frozen and Tangled are supposed to exist in the same world. Mind blown. I always thought the Disney princesses and other characters were largely independent of each other, in their own worlds.

I want to say that it's also the first time Disney has hinted at a shared universe between some movies. I don't think any of their previous films had any hint in them that they took place in the same universe as some of the others.
 
Looks like Frozen is getting a 3D release here in Taiwan.
20140219313169.jpg

The first Frozen 3D combo pack from a region A country IIRC, I don't know if it's going to be region A only or mixed or region free, costs about 30 dollars.

Edit: Release date is on April 3rd.
Edit2: Should be region free.
 
I finally just saw this yesterday. As a movie, it was incredible. As a musical, it fell apart. The songs that were in it were great, but were there even any songs during the last 40 minutes? The movie itself more than makes up for it, though.

I loved the Let It Go scene sooo much.
 
It will likely pass the 1 billion mark even with existing markets and it's yet to open in Japan, a potentially huge one.

Fair chance of Toy Story 3 going down.

The movie hasn't opened in Japan yet ? Are you sure about that ? In the "Let It Go in 25 languages" video, Japanese is included, which maybe means that the Japanese dub already exists. It would be peculiar for the movie to have not opened in Japan when they already have the localization.
 

qindarka

Banned
Has there been any information released about demographics, like what age groups Frozen has been popular with?

Would be most popular among young females, I would imagine. According to IMDB at least, female users seem to rate it quite a bit higher than male ones.

The movie hasn't opened in Japan yet ? Are you sure about that ? In the "Let It Go in 25 languages" video, Japanese is included, which maybe means that the Japanese dub already exists. It would be peculiar for the movie to have not opened in Japan when they already have the localization.

It opens there on the 14th of March.
 
It will likely pass the 1 billion mark even with existing markets and it's yet to open in Japan, a potentially huge one.

Fair chance of Toy Story 3 going down.

Oh wow I didn't realise that - good news

I don't know why I should care (although it may affect my massive single share in Disney) but I have been checking regularly with interest
 
Just got back from seeing it for the eight time. I didn't go this past tuesday as I said I would; I was too extenuated from my exam, I guess.

Still awesome. It's weird that it's coming out on blu-ray in less than a month when the film is still playing in theaters, and has yet to open in Japan. I guess it's a testament to its popularity.
 
I don't mean to crash the party because there are obviously a lot of fans in the thread. But man, this was unbearable to watch for me. I didn't find it endearing whatsoever. Little kids love it, that's great. But as adults, really? The story is so rote. The premise was tenuous at best. Even the technology, the lighting specifically, seemed outdated. The sing-songy bits jut pushed the whole thing over the top for me. Punishing experience.
 
I don't mean to crash the party because there are obviously a lot of fans in the thread. But man, this was unbearable to watch for me. I didn't find it endearing whatsoever. Little kids love it, that's great. But as adults, really? The story is so rote. The premise was tenuous at best. Even the technology, the lighting specifically, seemed outdated. The sing-songy bits jut pushed the whole thing over the top for me. Punishing experience.
Not sure what you were expecting?

It's on par with Disney's best. Maybe Disney just isn't for you.

Also dumping on the cgi are you serious?
 
I don't mean to crash the party because there are obviously a lot of fans in the thread. But man, this was unbearable to watch for me. I didn't find it endearing whatsoever. Little kids love it, that's great. But as adults, really? The story is so rote. The premise was tenuous at best. Even the technology, the lighting specifically, seemed outdated. The sing-songy bits jut pushed the whole thing over the top for me. Punishing experience.

Not sure what you were expecting?

It's on par with Disney's best. Maybe Disney just isn't for you.

Also dumping on the cgi are you serious?
You are the first person, the first, I've seen that think Frozen's animation is outdated. It is an undisputed fact that Frozen looks amazing, you might want to go to Disney's Youtube channel and see their technical stuff.

Also, everyone, and I mean everyone I know in real life like/love this movie, so it's just you.
 

qindarka

Banned
Could we please not rag on him/her for his opinion. Not like s/he was being a dick about it.

I think the film looks very beautiful for the most part and it may be the consensus but it is still a subjective thing.
 
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