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Disney Lost Approximately %50 of Value

Since you're such a stand up guy, please feel free to explain what it is about those scenes you find questionable.
I'm running out of patience with your smarmy attitude, bad faith arguing, and weak counterarguments. I'll keep engaging but probably not for much longer if you keep this nonsense up.

Anyway, the two scenes I linked were:

  1. Infinity War GIRL POWER™. Even Stevie Wonder can see through it. Most people thought it was cringe as hell. First of all, there's the logistical thing of having a giant battlefield and somehow every single woman combatant ends up in the same physical space. Then there's the pose. Then the "determined" walk. The whole thing is so awkward, and as someone already mentioned, it's all irrelevant because the major contributor was, ultimately, Iron Man.
  2. Captain Marvel "I've had a history of people putting me down because I'm a woman, but I will prove them all wrong" montage. It's also cringe. Not to mention that it wasn't even effective, because Captain Marvel is a very poorly written character.
Again, I don't think the messaging is particularly subtle, dude, so get out of here with "oh I don't see it, you only see it because you're triggered" nonsense.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
You asked for the difference between Alien and Captain Marvel, he gave you obvious examples and now you're acting stupid by both ignoring the cringy "Girl Power!" stuff Disney was trying to push and now changing the goalposts and talking about it not being controversial, as if that has anything to do with the discussion or can be something objective only you can judge. You're arguing in bad faith and it's fucking annoying, learn to take the L and stop doubling down with Olympic level mental gymnastics.
"Girl power" has been a trope for ages, and isn't controversial. Sorry. The point about the audience was to demonstrate that this is mostly just in your head.

On the other hand, men being sodomized and orally raped is pretty controversial but I'm guessing you were OK with it because you didn't notice it. Again, the point being that the content hasn't really changed. You have.

I'm running out of patience with your smarmy attitude, bad faith arguing, and weak counterarguments. I'll keep engaging but probably not for much longer if you keep this nonsense up.

Anyway, the two scenes I linked were:

  1. Infinity War GIRL POWER™. Even Stevie Wonder can see through it. Most people thought it was cringe as hell. First of all, there's the logistical thing of having a giant battlefield and somehow every single woman combatant ends up in the same physical space. Then there's the pose. Then the "determined" walk. The whole thing is so awkward, and as someone already mentioned, it's all irrelevant because the major contributor was, ultimately, Iron Man.
  2. Captain Marvel "I've had a history of people putting me down because I'm a woman, but I will prove them all wrong" montage. It's also cringe. Not to mention that it wasn't even effective, because Captain Marvel is a very poorly written character.
Again, I don't think the messaging is particularly subtle, dude, so get out of here with "oh I don't see it, you only see it because you're triggered" nonsense.

You do what you want. See above.
 
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"Girl power" has been a trope for ages, and isn't controversial. Sorry. The point about the audience was to demonstrate that this is mostly just in your head.

On the other hand, men being sodomized and orally raped is pretty controversial but I'm guessing you were OK with it because you didn't notice it. Again, the point being that the content hasn't really changed. You have.



You do what you want. See above.
I always do what I want, don't need your permission to do it.

But yes, as I see you have pretty much no valid arguments or counterarguments, we're done here. I enjoyed interacting with DeafTourette and sol_bad. Can't say the same for you, though.
 

Konnor

Member
God, I hope you're acting dense
"Girl power" has been a trope for ages, and isn't controversial. Sorry. The point about the audience was to demonstrate that this is mostly just in your head.

On the other hand, men being sodomized and orally raped is pretty controversial but I'm guessing you were OK with it because you didn't notice it. Again, the point being that the content hasn't really changed. You have.


Everyone I know and have discussed this with, even the dumbest normies, saw what Disney was obviously doing there but it's all in my head now. You're both trying to gaslight us and change the subject by talking about whether it's controversial or not, as if it matters in this discussion. I'm done with your intellectually dishonest bullshit, I'm out.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
I always do what I want, don't need your permission to do it.

But yes, as I see you have pretty much no valid arguments or counterarguments, we're done here. I enjoyed interacting with DeafTourette and sol_bad. Can't say the same for you, though.
God, I hope you're acting dense



Everyone I know and have discussed this with, even the dumbest normies, saw what Disney was obviously doing there but it's all in my head now. You're both trying to gaslight us and change the subject by talking about whether it's controversial or not, as if it matters in this discussion. I'm done with your intellectually dishonest bullshit, I'm out.
My point has and continues to be that social or political messaging in media is nothing new. I've never denied what Disney was "trying to do", just that there was nothing novel or controversial about it. Dan O'Bannan wrote Aliens because he wanted men to understand what it feels like to be raped, but somehow the messaging in Captain Marvel is what upsets you?
You're getting so riled up when someone calls you out for being wrong that you haven't even taken the time to read what's being said.
 
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Konnor

Member
My point has and continues to be that social or political messaging in media is nothing new. I've never denied what Disney was "trying to do", just that there was nothing novel or controversial about it. Dan O'Bannan wrote Aliens because he wanted men to understand what it feels like to be raped, but somehow the messaging in Captain Marvel is what upsets you?
You're getting so riled up when someone calls you out for being wrong that you haven't even taken the time to read what's being said.


OK let's play your game then, post scenes from Alien where they're pushing the Girl Power bullshit as shamelessly as Disney pushes theirs. InfiniteCombo showed the receipts, it's time for you to show yours too now. We're waiting.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
On the other hand, men being sodomized and orally raped is pretty controversial but I'm guessing you were OK with it because you didn't notice it. Again, the point being that the content hasn't really changed. You have.
Hang on, are you suggesting that if John Hurts character was shown to be gay that he would have LIKED being attacked by the facehugger 'cause he likes dick? Or if it was a female character it would be more titillating?

Oh man, I wanna attend YOUR film class :p
 

Crayon

Member
Girls reliably whupping guys asses in movies predates wokeism by a long long time. It's honestly kind of lame because of how predictable it is but it's weird now because I get the feeling writers think they are the first ones doing it. And that it can be a whole premise for a movie.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
OK let's play your game then, post scenes from Alien where they're pushing the Girl Power bullshit as shamelessly as Disney pushes theirs. InfiniteCombo showed the receipts, it's time for you to show yours too now. We're waiting.
Two thematically different movies. "Girl power" would be far too trite for an R rated movie. Perhaps an appropriate comparison would be something like Sailor Moon.

With that being said, there is absolutely messaging around gender role reversal in Aliens. The protagonist being a woman was an intentional choice. O'Bannon wanted the men in the audience to be as uncomfortable and vulnerable as possible. See below.

Hang on, are you suggesting that if John Hurts character was shown to be gay that he would have LIKED being attacked by the facehugger 'cause he likes dick? Or if it was a female character it would be more titillating?

Oh man, I wanna attend YOUR film class :p

Fairly certain people don't enjoy being raped, but this isn't my interpretation. It's literally what O'Bannon stated he set out to do.

It was implicitly about rape -- and especially male fears of penetration, according to screenwriter Dan O'Bannon, who said many years later: "One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number."
https://www.rogerebert.com/scanners/prometheus-alien-originsthe-skeleton-beneath-the-exoskeleton
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
Fairly certain people don't enjoy being raped, but this isn't my interpretation. It's literally what O'Bannon stated he set out to do.


https://www.rogerebert.com/scanners/prometheus-alien-originsthe-skeleton-beneath-the-exoskeleton
I've never heard that bit, and I'd love a film class that went to those places. I never really picked up on that despite probably 30 viewings of Alien, maybe it needed more gagging slurping noises.

Definitely plays into the reverse scene in AvP2 with all the pregnant women inexplicably tied to their beds for the predalien.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
Get rid of them all. Every single special month.

Black Americans have made some important and key contributions to American society. Highlight the Achievements along with the rest of all Americans. That way they won't be seen "special" but will instead be seeing as NORMAL, which is what it should be. Black Americans don't have a greater (or more importantly, don't have a lesser) ability to contribute to society than any other American of any creed.

I'm a big music fan, and popular music has pretty much been a monopoly of black American contributions since the dawn of the 20th century. Think about the most popular forms of pop music -- acoustic blues, jazz (arguably THE quintessential American art form), electric blues, rhythm and blues, rock and roll, soul, gospel, disco, hip hop/rap. They have ALL been invented/trailblazed/innovated by black Americans.

That's exactly my point! The fact that ALL of our contributions (black, native American, Asian American, etc) are usually relegated to "civil rights movement, warlike tribes, built the railroads, millions died in the Holocaust, etc.... We all contributed much more than that but the books in K-12 don't cover those things.

I get it... History is written by the victors and yes, the founding fathers basically created this country with a quill and paper. Thomas Edison created the lightbulb, though a black man created the filliment that helped the bulb last longer. They don't teach that in the history books... And with TX dumbing down those books, most will never know if not for Black History Month.

I didn't know about The Tulsa Race Massacre (or any of the other race massacres against POC) until about a decade ago. I'm about to be 48 next month!
 

Konnor

Member
Two thematically different movies. "Girl power" would be far too trite for an R rated movie. Perhaps an appropriate comparison would be something like Sailor Moon.

Hmmm, interesting, so they're very different and you obviously have no examples to prove otherwise. I wonder who asked this though:

What is the distinction between Aliens and say Captain Marvel? I don't seem to recall too many megaphone scenes in the MCU.

It's as there's intellectual dishonesty involved in this discussion



With that being said, there is absolutely messaging around gender role reversal in Aliens. The protagonist being a woman was an intentional choice. O'Bannon wanted the men in the audience to be as uncomfortable and vulnerable as possible. See below.

There is "messaging" if you want to look for it really really hard. And even if there actually is it's subtle and artistic instead of being in your face and preachy. That's the difference between being an old school director/writer and a pretentious modern Hollywood hacks screaming from the rooftops how progressive and on the right side of history they are.
 
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That's exactly my point! The fact that ALL of our contributions (black, native American, Asian American, etc) are usually relegated to "civil rights movement, warlike tribes, built the railroads, millions died in the Holocaust, etc.... We all contributed much more than that but the books in K-12 don't cover those things.

I get it... History is written by the victors and yes, the founding fathers basically created this country with a quill and paper. Thomas Edison created the lightbulb, though a black man created the filliment that helped the bulb last longer. They don't teach that in the history books... And with TX dumbing down those books, most will never know if not for Black History Month.

I didn't know about The Tulsa Race Massacre (or any of the other race massacres against POC) until about a decade ago. I'm about to be 48 next month!
That's a fault of the school system.

I remember as a kid going to public school, being REALLY annoyed that the only time I would hear about W.E.B. DuBois, Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver, etc, was during BLACK HISTORY MONTH™. I'm like, yo, I want to hear about cats like those all year round.

I remember when I first learned of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics. I was floored, I was like yo this is something that absolutely needs to get out of the confines of BLACK HISTORY MONTH™. This should be told all the time. The whole anecdote is pretty much storybook levels of inspiring. Homeboy went to the Olympics in Berlin, in the middle of the most fervent Nazi propaganda. So you've got Hitler and Goebbels spouting their absolutely bottom-barrel garbage views, and Owens shows up and thoroughly embarrasses them.

gettyimages-514685300-1634223381.jpg


It's an inspiring tale of American perseverance and strength, and should be told all the time, not just Black History Month.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
giphy.webp


One thing about progressives is that subtlety is not their forte, so finding these two examples was quick and easy. There are more but I don't have time right now to dig them up.
This scene was absolutely pathetic. Spoke to a few female friends who all agreed it was "cringeworthy".

The problem is how heavy-handed they are. Not to mention it doesn't even make sense - they're on a battlefield fighting Thanos, and all the females congregate in one part of the battlefield for a cheesy, nonsensical, close-up.

They just can't help themselves.
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Boy this thread really careened off the rails 🚉

I am thinking about buying some Disney stock since it's so low right now. But I haven't purchased stock since about 2016. What's the best, most reliable online broker these days?
 

Billbofet

Member
Boy this thread really careened off the rails 🚉

I am thinking about buying some Disney stock since it's so low right now. But I haven't purchased stock since about 2016. What's the best, most reliable online broker these days?
Not that I have traded with many services, but of those I have, I like Ally Bank the best by far. Good luck!
 

Billbofet

Member
This scene was absolutely pathetic. Spoke to a few female friends who all agreed it was "cringeworthy".

The problem is how heavy-handed they are. Not to mention it doesn't even make sense - they're on a battlefield fighting Thanos, and all the females congregate in one part of the battlefield for a cheesy, nonsensical, close-up.

They just can't help themselves.
An anecdote here, but I took my daughter to see this movie and in that scene, she nudged me and said "Dad??????" and had a WTF look on her face.
I would think this scene is aimed squarely at her as she was 12 years old at the time, and while I brushed it off as really nothing much, she brings it up every time we watch anything Marvel and makes fun of it as the most "cringe" thing she has seen in a movie.
For reference, she has watched all of Gilmore Girls and Glee - she knows what the fuck cringe is!!!!
 

sol_bad

Member
This scene was absolutely pathetic. Spoke to a few female friends who all agreed it was "cringeworthy".

The problem is how heavy-handed they are. Not to mention it doesn't even make sense - they're on a battlefield fighting Thanos, and all the females congregate in one part of the battlefield for a cheesy, nonsensical, close-up.

They just can't help themselves.

Anecdotal evidence but my sister, my mum, my nieces and my wife all liked it.
 

Doom85

Member
Anecdotal evidence but my sister, my mum, my nieces and my wife all liked it.

My theater cheered during that scene. To be clear, they also cheered during Cap getting the hammer, Sam calling in the reinforcements, Tony showing he swiped the Infinity Stones, Steve handing the shield to Sam, the end credits, etc. so it wasn’t that scene alone.
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
Personally I have to argue with you on that aspect. The anti male agenda has been pushed heavily with the Black Widow movie. I felt that was totally out of place
I meant about the scenes on the gifs. But I have not watched Black Widow yet, so I can't really talk about it.

But I'm not saying Marvel is never problematic about this stuff. For example, there was a Captain America comic which they depicted Jordan Peterson as the Red Skull, something which I take as an extreme disrespect to the guy, because even if they don't agree with his views, he is very clearly not a person that deserves to be compared to a nazi.

But being paranoid about everything Disney / Marvel does when trying to depict women or any other minority will not do any good to anyone. People should direct their criticism to where it's due.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
An anecdote here, but I took my daughter to see this movie and in that scene, she nudged me and said "Dad??????" and had a WTF look on her face.
I would think this scene is aimed squarely at her as she was 12 years old at the time, and while I brushed it off as really nothing much, she brings it up every time we watch anything Marvel and makes fun of it as the most "cringe" thing she has seen in a movie.
For reference, she has watched all of Gilmore Girls and Glee - she knows what the fuck cringe is!!!!
Yeah says it all when a 12 year-old (no offence there, but she's just a little kid), can see straight through this type of over-the-top, illogical, out-of-place, corporate pandering.
 

Fuz

Banned
We'd be better off with emojis that can only be used positively. Too easy to troll and be passive-aggressive with the other ones. I only use them to troll one person, but they kept talking about my pubic hair, which is a bit weirdo, so.
No. This is thought control, akin to youtube removing dislikes.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
No. This is thought control, akin to youtube removing dislikes.
YouTube should require an account to fully view the video before putting in a dislike or like. That would probably clear out most of the bandwagon votes since most of those types of folks ain't got the time to actually watch the videos they are told to thumbs up or down.. Not sure how it would affect bots, if that was a thing for youtube.
 

BadBurger

Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
ooph, the stellar debut for Minions 2(? 4? whatever) puts Lightyear in an even worse light. Minions beat lightyears BO to date IN THREE DAYS.


Hopefully Disney takes some time to reflect, learn, and grow :p

It's crazy those numbers Minions 2 (edit: err, whatever number it is) put up. I didn't realize that franchise was so popular. I still haven't seen either the first nor that spin-off with the little corn nut guys.
 
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Doom85

Member
It's crazy those numbers Minions 2 (edit: err, whatever number it is) put up. I didn't realize that franchise was so popular. I still haven't seen either the first nor that spin-off with the little corn nut guys.

The first two Despicable Me movies were perfectly average. DM 3 was all garbage except for the villain who was surprisingly good. Minions 1 was terrible all the way through except for a brief moment of legitimate creativity with this family of a mom, dad, and their kids who rob banks and are really nice and supportive towards each other about it. But the movie kicks them out after only a few minutes and it’s back to garbage town.

I am not seeing Minions 2. The franchise has long outstayed its welcome for me, and the newest trailer was just 70% characters screaming a lot, as if the advertisers were all, “fuck you, you’re going to take your kids to see this shit whether you like it or not, so here’s some incoherent energetic screaming to further pump up their little sugar high brains!”

In fact, I’m pretty much done with Illumination. I would say they are the kings of mid, but honestly that might even be insulting to the concept of mid. I’ll see Mario because it’s Mario but beyond that I’ll gladly stick with Disney and Pixar as only their absolute worst films (Cars 2, Chicken Little, Home on the Range, a few more) deserve to be ranked below even Illumination’s “best”. I never feel any passion from Illumination, they either wear out an okay franchise like Despicable Me, fall back into extremely cliched plots (Sing 1 - competition to save the building from closing! Sing 2 - wait, we made a sequel to this…really? Whatever, let’s spoil an uninterrupted two whole minutes of the climax in the trailer!), make horrible Dr. Seuss adaptations (meanwhile Netflix does a reverse Uno and somehow made an excellent SERIES based off Green Eggs and Ham), and rip off Toy Story (Secret Life of Pets - guys, it’s okay, we’ll throw in a psycho bunny and maybe Pixar won’t sue! Secret Life of Pets 2 - err, fuck it, write three sub plots and don’t even bother trying to tie them together! DM 3 did the same thing and we got away with it, so let’s keep that bad writing train going!).

Like, the hate even for Disney and Pixar animation baffles me as there’s slim pickings of quality anywhere else for western animated movies. Sure, Sony has Spider-Verse, Dreamworks occasionally makes a good film (Kung Fu Panda trilogy, How to Train Tour Dragon trilogy…..err, Abominable was okay. But then there’s Boss Baby 1 and 2, Home, and Trolls 1 and 2 and, oh fuck me, they’re making a third one?!), and on the rare time we get a Studio Laika film it’s almost always a treat. But that’s about it.

Fuck the Minions. Lightyear was hardly the best Pixar film, but everything in it was far better than having to endure one more second of those yellow, gibberish-speaking chucklefucks designed purely to be mascot merchandise bait to the highest degree. Yeah, they made more money, good for them. Transformers 2 also made a fuck ton at the box office so I’ll take the “more box office = superior movie” argument with a huge grain of salt if I may.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
ooph, the stellar debut for Minions 2(? 4? whatever) puts Lightyear in an even worse light. Minions beat lightyears BO to date IN THREE DAYS.


Hopefully Disney takes some time to reflect, learn, and grow :p
Minions is fantastically hilarious. Especially all the YouTube videos people memed with them making their laughing and spittle noises for ricer kiddos messing up at car meets, lol.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
The first two Despicable Me movies were perfectly average. DM 3 was all garbage except for the villain who was surprisingly good......... Yeah, they made more money, good for them. Transformers 2 also made a fuck ton at the box office so I’ll take the “more box office = superior movie” argument with a huge grain of salt if I may.
Show us on the doll where the bad man touched you :p
 

sol_bad

Member
ooph, the stellar debut for Minions 2(? 4? whatever) puts Lightyear in an even worse light. Minions beat lightyears BO to date IN THREE DAYS.


Hopefully Disney takes some time to reflect, learn, and grow :p

I haven't seen Minions but I can say without a doubt that Lightyear would easily be the better movie.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
That's a fault of the school system.

I remember as a kid going to public school, being REALLY annoyed that the only time I would hear about W.E.B. DuBois, Frederick Douglass, George Washington Carver, etc, was during BLACK HISTORY MONTH™. I'm like, yo, I want to hear about cats like those all year round.

I remember when I first learned of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics. I was floored, I was like yo this is something that absolutely needs to get out of the confines of BLACK HISTORY MONTH™. This should be told all the time. The whole anecdote is pretty much storybook levels of inspiring. Homeboy went to the Olympics in Berlin, in the middle of the most fervent Nazi propaganda. So you've got Hitler and Goebbels spouting their absolutely bottom-barrel garbage views, and Owens shows up and thoroughly embarrasses them.

gettyimages-514685300-1634223381.jpg


It's an inspiring tale of American perseverance and strength, and should be told all the time, not just Black History Month.
Only history I remember from high school was stuff like the Battle of 1812 and Louis Riel. Which right now I dont even remember what they were about (I think 1812 is when the Brits and French attacked the White House).

I think history class was only mandatory in grade 9 and 10. I considered those classes (along with geography) as a waste of time so I didnt bother taking more as I focused on math, science and business classes. The second I took business admin and accounting, I knew for sure I wanted to do business as a career and got two business degrees. I even minored in economics in undergrad.
 
The rest of your post was flawless, but I am very curious what cartoon this is. I love this picture, it is the most random assortment of heroes I've ever seen 😂 You've got:
- An actual unicorn
- Some sort of Viking kid
- Random dude with a shield
- Some sort of Robin Hood dude
- Black Wonder Woman
- Some sort of nerd cosplaying as a wizard
- And finally, some truly random ass chick with a cape
 
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sol_bad

Member
The rest of your post was flawless, but I am very curious what cartoon this is. I love this picture, it is the most random assortment of heroes I've ever seen 😂 You've got:
- An actual unicorn
- Some sort of Viking kid
- Random dude with a shield
- Some sort of Robin Hood dude
- Black Wonder Woman
- Some sort of nerd cosplaying as a wizard
- And finally, some truly random ass chick with a cape

Dungeons and Dragons yo.
I wonder if it still holds up or if it's terrible these days.

*EDIT*
About a bunch of "modern" day kids that are teleported to the D&D realm/reality/whatever.
 
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