-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Filmmaking is my bread and butter.
Even putting aside my obvious bias, DmC has the same level of narrative progression as a Michael bay movie. Way way way behind heavenly sword or even enslaved. It's clear taneem wouldn't know what a momomyth was if it spin kicked him in the face.
However, credit where it is dude, thematically, DmC does have an serviceable, if simple progression. Each level builds on the last, in a way that tells its own story, without further explanation. Not many games do that as well these days.
That all said, the majority of videogames have absoultely shit narratives when directly compared to film. That's probably why I find cinematic games so offensive. Games should concentrate on being games rather than trying emulate a art form that they obviously can't without seriously compromising player agency.
Even putting aside my obvious bias, DmC has the same level of narrative progression as a Michael bay movie. Way way way behind heavenly sword or even enslaved. It's clear taneem wouldn't know what a momomyth was if it spin kicked him in the face.
However, credit where it is dude, thematically, DmC does have an serviceable, if simple progression. Each level builds on the last, in a way that tells its own story, without further explanation. Not many games do that as well these days.
That all said, the majority of videogames have absoultely shit narratives when directly compared to film. That's probably why I find cinematic games so offensive. Games should concentrate on being games rather than trying emulate a art form that they obviously can't without seriously compromising player agency.
The DmC story has a lot of problems.
First, lets take the story on it's own. It doesn't work, in more ways than I can spent describing. But for simplicity sake, I don't really understand what Dante's character arc is suppose to be here.
If it's that he's suppose to 'awaken to justice' like OG Dante did in DMC3, I don't see why he did or whats different from what he was at the beginning of the game, except that he had more of a defeatist attitude about over throwing the demons. But if he supposedly found value in humanity, he did it through Kat. But how did this happen? What was so special about this girl? You tell me, because I have no idea. She was just some random chick. The closest they come to having a moment is that they vaguely relate to each other by having been hurt by demons in the past, which is like pretty much everyone on the planet.
To be honest, I like Kat. She's probably the best character in the game. The best acted and she shows just the right amount of vulnerability by being physically the weakest person there and strength of character by willingly risking her life time and again for a cause she completely believed in. But, if she was suppose to fall in love with Dante at the end, I certainly didn't feel it because there were 3 characters and Vergil just treated her as a tool while dante atleast cared about her. It'd reflect badly on her if she didn't side with the guy who atleast treated her like a person as opposed to a tool. But I digress.
Despite Dante being the more gentlemanly of the pair, their relationship fails to resonate because she just doesn't have any reason to care about dante (and it honestly seems that she doesn't, besides as a friend and comrade) and Dante is strangely and pointlessly entranced by her. Why? Well, I honestly don't know. Yet he does care about her. And only her. Vergil, his long lost brother is inconsequential. Just consider that he learned Kat's backstory as early as he could, but he didn't even bother learning how his brother survived all these years until he's right outside Mundus' door, as an afterthought. And when the Order's headquarters was being attacked, he gave NO shit whatsoever about anyone except Kat being alright (in fairness, he was helplessly stuck in limbo and that forced him to focus on his priorities, but still...). I think it can be argued that the entire game is just Dante trying to impress her, adopting her goals as his own as a way of winning her affections, in addition to getting his own personal revenge on Mundus. If you think that this is too unbelievable, consider at the end where he was about to kill Vergil, as a way of protecting the world from his rule. Now, I am willing to accept that Dante's desire to protect humanity is genuine, and if it is inline with the punk philosophy that NT has tried to capture, then it makes sense that he is against ALL authority, whether it's the malicious Mundus or the benevolent Vergil. Still, he is willing to drop it when Kat asked him to spare him. "For me.", she said. And so he did. So we can assume then that Kat's desires are what is driving Dante's actions above all else. And I don't understand why, because the extent of their relationship is that he has a crush and they had a moment where they talked about similar childhoods. Despite everything, there is no real reason that either should be attached to the other beyond in terms of being general comrades. I'm sure that every single person in Vergil's Order had been hurt by demons at some point. Otherwise, why would they be there? And Dante gets sex whenever he wants, according to what he says. Yet she seems to be positioned by NT as THE reason that Dante had his awakening to justice...?
When the component that is suppose to be driving dante's character development fails, then the arc fails, if there is suppose to even be an arc. Was there suppose to be? He seems to be, to me, the same character he was at the beginning, he's just less defeatist because...well, he won. It's not so much character development as much as a mood change. And if NT was going for a static character, that'd be fine, but I really don't think that's what they were going for.
But moving on from that, if we can acknowledge that Kat is the driving force of Dante's character 'arc' then even if it had succeeded, then it revealed another problem and NT's biggest sin: They didn't do DMC justice. Let me mark this as the place where I stop looking at DmC as it's own game and look at it as an addition to the DMC franchise. What they were suppose to do is use DMC as a template to start an alternate universe with the same essential characteristics, but interpreted differently. I think it's best to use DmC's Dante as an example of this done right. I feel they succeeded in capturing him. He has all the defining characteristics: He's conflicted about his demonic side, son of sparda, has a twin brother, a joker and badass in a fight, wields guns and melee weapons together....white hair, if you really care that damn much. Even if you don't like the new Dante, I think NT captured all the essential dante characteristics and put their own spin on them. He is Dante because he has all the required Danteness. He is not Dante In Name Only, he's Dante in Essence. Vino, Sino, and Mino were not as fortunate.
Vergil is the one who hurts the most. He is suppose to be Dante's opposite but equal, brothers who both love each other deep down, but have conflicting philosophies and lifestyles. I already went over how Dante doesn't really care about anyone but Kat in this game above, so I'll focus on their failure to capture the second (and arguably more important) essential element of Vergil. In their reinterpretation, they turned Vergil into the smart guy constrasted to Dante's brute strength. This could have worked perfectly, you know, if they had written Vergil as a legitimately smart character. This is a classic example of telling, not showing. The only real display of Vergil's intelligence is his hacking, which is honestly just technobabble combined with plot device. This isn't intelligence in an organic form. There is nothing really showing that Vergil is smarter than dante when you put them in a room together. Not only that, but he is entirely dependent on Dante. How shit out of luck would he be if Dante just said "Well, okay, I now know my past....still don't care. Kat, if your ever in the mood for a good fuck, come by my place." and walked away? Vergil is goddamn helpless without Dante, while Dante could probably just move and take out whatever demons he needed to to stay safe. And even in the fight with Mundus, where he and Dante worked side by side, he had to constantly have his ass saved by his brother. He is obviously Dante's inferior. If he is supposedly smarter, it's not in any way that matters. And he's so outclassed in fighting ability that it's pathetic. What Vergil should have been is far more calculating have Dante join cause by some form of manipulation. Here's an easy example, and you wouldn't have to change much of the actual exchange.
What happened:
"Dante, please please please please join my group. Give me a chance. I promise, once I show you who you are, you'll definitely, truly want to stay."
What should have happened:
"Hello, Dante. I am Vergil. You want to join my organization and I am here to let you. Oh? You don't want to? Very well. I'll be sure to leave a blue rose at your funeral. You realize the only reason you are still alive is that you only ever had to fight the most minor of demons. That's changed now. Mundus knows who you are and will track you. Not here of course, we have systems of protection. Shame you're not staying. Mundus will send the armies of hell after you once your gone, you know. Why? Well, because of your father. Oh, you don't know who your father is? What about your mother Eva? No? Hmm. Oh, sorry, classified order information. I have to keep my secrets, you know. In any case, you go ahead and run along now, I don't want to keep you. My time is precious as well, and if it doesn't have to do with the Order, then I'm afraid I can't waste it. Enjoy the rest of your very short life outside this complex."
See how much more power he has here? Even if he is weaker than dante physically, he'd have total dominance, holding the secrets and his safety over his head. Intelligence vs strength, conflicting on equal grounds. And this could easily go on the entire game, him manipulating Dante by exploiting his desire to know more about himself, his relationship with Kat, etc, right up to the very end where Vergil just has to fight, and (again, while physically weaker), he can demonstrate greater battle tactics (perhaps using the environment to help him with the fight). It doesn't necessarily have to be mean like I suggested with my text, but he should never have been begging like a dog for scraps.
Sparda and Mundus suffer more in the translation however, probably due to their vagueness in the original DMC. The essence of Sparda was that he was a demon, a monsterous entity, that awakened to justice, kicked Mundus and the ENTIRETY OF HIS DEMON ARMY back to Hell, and placed several seals throughout the world that made. He was such a force to be reckoned with, essentially a god greater than even mundus, and yet he fought for what was right, and settled to have a family, which is a very human desire. In fairness, a lot of the depth of Sparda comes from vagueness and how the lore was set up for the fans to fill in the blanks (more on that later). But the essence of Sparda was that he had all the power in the world and was set to do great evil....and didn't. He did the opposite. Like the inverse of Lucifer. DmC's Sparda, at best, vaguely suggest his importance and power by being related to mundus and seemingly having a servant in phineas. But as soon as Mundus found out about Eva, he came down and manhandled him pretty easily. And that's where he's left, suffering for a thousand years, with Mundus not even bothering to pick out his replacement and not showing himself to be any worse for it. He didn't seem to do any great deeds or have a dramatic change of character or anything like that. He just happened to fall in love with Eva (for seemingly no reason, much like with Dante and Kat) and...that's it. But worse is how Dante and Vergil react to him. In DMC, his legacy wasn't merely the power that left the twins, but it was the effect that both parents had on both the twin's character. Both were taught that Sparda was a great demon/man by their mother, but then she was killed, and the twins reacted differently to both, with some truly effective dramatic and tragic irony involved in their character development. In Dmc, Sparda's contribution to the story is his sperm. He himself isn't important. It could have been any demons sperm, really. A lesser stygian could have screwed some random angel, and given birth to Dante and Vergil and everything would have been the same, because the important thing is that it's a demon/angel hybrid and....that's all. Sparda here is so much less meaningful than he was in DMC. Again, I stress that I am not simply bitching that Sparda has been changed, but because the essence of his character hasn't been kept intact. If they wanted to put more emphasis on Sparda being in love with Eva and show him as weaker, that would be perfectly fine, but they still need to include his awakening to justice, and his rebellion against demonkind. So, what I would do is have Eva be out on a mission to seduce Sparda into justice, and she does, falling in love with him in the process, to which they have a family. His newly awakened sense of justice and unique position in Mundus' army allows him to get closer than anyone else would be able to. However, he fails, but manages to make Mundus impotent, justifying Mundus' irrational desire to have a child. Sparda awakens to justice and rebels, while NT still put their own spin on the story, and it helps explain a plot element that otherwise makes no sense in the game.
And Mundus...well, it's not mundus so much as demons in general. Mundus and his army of demons were Evil, not evil as in the moral action as we understand it, but as a metaphysical concept. They wanted to kill and take over the human world because it was in their nature. Not the deepest of motivations, I'll grant you, but what I like about it is that it is truly alien. It's not about getting stuff because they need it or anything comprehensible by humans. I was perfectly willing to accept DmC's system of demons...but it falls apart because there is no point to this silly masquerade they put up. Before, it was assumed that demons could only affect limbo, but at the end, the Hellgate is closed, something Mundus could have done at any time, and limbo collapsed into the real world where the demons were seen. Why did they just not do that? Why not enslave us the normal, physical way, which would be much easier for them. Instead, they try to get at us with these soft drinks and crappy news reporters. They go through the trouble of keeping a society fully functional, yet on the brink of decadence and for what? Why? I honestly can't think of any reason except maybe that they're bored and decided to challenge themselves. It doesn't help that Mundus was made so much more human. I won't argue that he was some deep character in the original, but he was definitely alien like the rest of the demons were, not really able to comprehend why dante is so upset when "I can just make more artificial demons, just like Trish". Mundus of DmC doesn't have that excuse. He's very human in comparison. He has sexual urges, he lusts after human attention (evidence by his photo with all sorts of famous people), he is greedy, prideful....and he wants a kid for some reason (more on that later). Here, NT kept his sociopathy, but made him too human in the process, when he and the rest of the demons are suppose to be alien beings. It results in this contradiction of characteristics that make make him not a demon at all, but just a particularly dickish guy who is going through this silliness with limbo, when he could easily just openly rule humans like Mundus of old would do.
And then they, bizarrely, missed the one chance they had to expand on a DMC character that didn't have much characterization. They made Eva into an Angel and gave her a greater presense, but in the end, she is a copy of Eva. Her being an angel is, again, a plot device for Dante to be speshul and also get a new weapon, but her status as an angel isn't really commented upon. Here was a very good opportunity to turn the tables a bit. If Mundus can only be killed by a nephilim, it'd make more sense for Eva to have been the one who seduced Sparda (maybe fallen in love with him legitimately, but that's irrelevant) in order to breed a child that could kill Mundus. This would break away from her DMC characterization, but Eva was such a blank character there that they have plenty of foundation to build upon it. The essence of Eva was that she loved her sons and her death serves to motivate the twins in some way. NT do that here, in fact they establish this more than the DMC games by giving her her own character model and sequences in Mission 2, but don't do anything more with her when they could have done so much, especially with her new identity as an angel.
Vergil, Sparda, Mundus, NT failed all these characters. Dante and Kat alone stand up as realized characters the way they should be (if you see the essentials of the aforementioned DMC characters as I do, atleast), and it is their relationship that clearly has the most effort put into being realized. No, not just the character relationship, it's the single most important story element in the game, at the expense of nearly everything else, which is why the story ultimately fails to have any hold on the audience.
I don't predict that this story is gonna stay with people very long, unless you really, really liked the characters here for some reason. To make a story stay with an audience after the credits have rolled, you need some hooks to speculate on what is beyond that which is shown. This doesn't necessarily have to be something for a sequel, but just some mystery that provokes the audiences mind to wonder at it. Part of the reason that DMC had a huge story fanbase was also because of all the blanks that fans were left to fill because the lore suggested certain things, but didn't expand on them, allowing fans to assume a lot and make the universe feel bigger than merely what was happening in the story that was shown. Even DMC2 contributed to this. We had untold tales we could contemplate. What was the relationship between Mundus and Argosax (since they were both demon rulers), what awakened Sparda to justice, how did that war proceed exactly, what was Sparda's relationship with all the demons that mention knowing him personally, what happened to Dante after he rode into Hell in DMC2, etc. Lots of good hooks that fans were left with to speculate on.
In comparison, DmC's lore is so thread bare. To be clear, saying little and saying nothing at all isn't the same thing. A history between Beowulf and Sparda was suggested, and fans can make some assumptions off that. Because of how Beowulf is particularly enraged at the very mention of sparda, more than any other demon thousands of years later, I think it can be assumed that it was't just a betrayal of demon nature, but a personal betrayal of trust to him, and we are intrigued as to what their relationship could have been. Compare that to Mundus saying when he arrived to humanity a millennium ago. Where was he before? Why did he come? What were his goals? Any guess is as good as another. We have no foundation to build off of. Therefore, maybe he was kicked out of hell, or maybe he was just taking a very long nap, or maybe he was just bored, or maybe there was something he wanted. Who knows? It could be anything.
DmC had plenty of opportunities to give the players these kinds of hooks and it squandered all except the incident with phineas. A great example would be Bob. There is so much contradictory about him in comparison to the rest of demon kind. He seems to truly exist as this strange, abstract entity that Dante kills and then gets Aquila from. Why does Bob not have a physical demon body like everyone else? Why is he electronic when everyone else seemed to be made out of some kind of physical material? Why was he carrying around this archaic style angel chakram weapon? NT could have used this to expand on the capabilities of demonkind. Make Bob an artificial demon intelligence, which was made from Angel tech that demons corrupted. Not only do you take an out of place element within the story and make it flow seamlessly into the narrative, but you world build and give fans a hint of angel culture as well and give fans some possibilities to speculate on the next game that can include an expansion of more of these electronic demons as demon technology progresses.
Instead, everything moves along because it's what the plot needs at the moment, not caring whether this element of world building makes sense later. Dante needs some kind of reason to trust kat, so have the otherwise weakling Hunter be completely immune until she throws this random fire grenade thing at him, after which he is vulnerable for some reason. If whatever protection the Hunter had would have made him impervious to Dante's attacks, why don't ALL demons, or atleast important ones like Poison, have that? Why aren't there more Nephilim out there? If Nephilim can kill the demon king, and angels want to do that, and Mundus has political enemies, then both angels and demons should be eager to do the dirty and let their children destroy their common enemy. And Limbo. Goddamn, limbo, what sense do you even make? You might argue that limbo needs to be inexplicable because otherwise there is no reason it can't just crush a building on Dante, but I think it'd be perfect if there were 2 limbo, one operated by the angels like the hellgate is operated by the demons, and they interact. Angels, knowing Dante is their best hope in defeating Mundus, are constantly protecting him and generally keeping demon limbo from simply killing him. But I can't assume that because there is absolutely nothing indicating it in the game. The worst example is Mundus' baby. With Mundus being immortal, why is he even considering the possibility of a successor? If he is as sociopathic as he claims, why does he even want a kid even if he is going somewhere? Why not let it this entire facade that he built fall apart if he's not going to be there to enjoy it? And if he really wants a kid that bad, why doesn't he just fuck another one of his whores? Infact, why doesn't he impregnate a whole harem, so he has several children so if something happens to one of them, he can just shrug and appoint another as a successor?
No, instead, everything in DmC is there to serve the plot from one point to the next and not a tick more. The only exception, which I mentioned before, is when Phineas describes Assiel and their other abilities, but honestly, that just tells me that Dante is gonna visit heaven in the sequel, which I could have guessed. Better would have been to give me what those 'great things' that the nephilim did were.
In terms of characters, world building, and plot, DmC is a colossal failure not just on it's own, but in living up to what was a fairly good universe. All of NT's energy was put into trying to ignite a romance that never got off the ground. I'm very curious to know what happened here. I see two real options. One is that they simply didn't care. Their interest lie in teen romance, evidently, beyond anything else, and if they really focused on that and only used the DMC template out of sheer mandate from Capcom, then that proves beyond any doubt that they were not the studio to reboot the franchise. If Capcom had that much confidence in them, they should have made their own IP, where they could go all out in creating their action-adventure romance and spared DMC fans the disappointment of seeing Vergil, Sparda and Mundus being turned into such parodies of their former selves. The other option is that they are simply incompetent at writing a story, despite their enthusiasm.
If it's that he's suppose to 'awaken to justice' like OG Dante did in DMC3, I don't see why he did or whats different from what he was at the beginning of the game, except that he had more of a defeatist attitude about over throwing the demons. But if he supposedly found value in humanity, he did it through Kat. But how did this happen? What was so special about this girl? You tell me, because I have no idea. She was just some random chick. The closest they come to having a moment is that they vaguely relate to each other by having been hurt by demons in the past, which is like pretty much everyone on the planet.
To be honest, I like Kat. She's probably the best character in the game. The best acted and she shows just the right amount of vulnerability by being physically the weakest person there and strength of character by willingly risking her life time and again for a cause she completely believed in. But, if she was suppose to fall in love with Dante at the end, I certainly didn't feel it because there were 3 characters and Vergil just treated her as a tool while dante atleast cared about her. It'd reflect badly on her if she didn't side with the guy who atleast treated her like a person as opposed to a tool. But I digress.
Despite Dante being the more gentlemanly of the pair, their relationship fails to resonate because she just doesn't have any reason to care about dante (and it honestly seems that she doesn't, besides as a friend and comrade) and Dante is strangely and pointlessly entranced by her. Why? Well, I honestly don't know. Yet he does care about her. And only her. Vergil, his long lost brother is inconsequential. Just consider that he learned Kat's backstory as early as he could, but he didn't even bother learning how his brother survived all these years until he's right outside Mundus' door, as an afterthought. And when the Order's headquarters was being attacked, he gave NO shit whatsoever about anyone except Kat being alright (in fairness, he was helplessly stuck in limbo and that forced him to focus on his priorities, but still...). I think it can be argued that the entire game is just Dante trying to impress her, adopting her goals as his own as a way of winning her affections, in addition to getting his own personal revenge on Mundus. If you think that this is too unbelievable, consider at the end where he was about to kill Vergil, as a way of protecting the world from his rule. Now, I am willing to accept that Dante's desire to protect humanity is genuine, and if it is inline with the punk philosophy that NT has tried to capture, then it makes sense that he is against ALL authority, whether it's the malicious Mundus or the benevolent Vergil. Still, he is willing to drop it when Kat asked him to spare him. "For me.", she said. And so he did. So we can assume then that Kat's desires are what is driving Dante's actions above all else. And I don't understand why, because the extent of their relationship is that he has a crush and they had a moment where they talked about similar childhoods. Despite everything, there is no real reason that either should be attached to the other beyond in terms of being general comrades. I'm sure that every single person in Vergil's Order had been hurt by demons at some point. Otherwise, why would they be there? And Dante gets sex whenever he wants, according to what he says. Yet she seems to be positioned by NT as THE reason that Dante had his awakening to justice...?
When the component that is suppose to be driving dante's character development fails, then the arc fails, if there is suppose to even be an arc. Was there suppose to be? He seems to be, to me, the same character he was at the beginning, he's just less defeatist because...well, he won. It's not so much character development as much as a mood change. And if NT was going for a static character, that'd be fine, but I really don't think that's what they were going for.
But moving on from that, if we can acknowledge that Kat is the driving force of Dante's character 'arc' then even if it had succeeded, then it revealed another problem and NT's biggest sin: They didn't do DMC justice. Let me mark this as the place where I stop looking at DmC as it's own game and look at it as an addition to the DMC franchise. What they were suppose to do is use DMC as a template to start an alternate universe with the same essential characteristics, but interpreted differently. I think it's best to use DmC's Dante as an example of this done right. I feel they succeeded in capturing him. He has all the defining characteristics: He's conflicted about his demonic side, son of sparda, has a twin brother, a joker and badass in a fight, wields guns and melee weapons together....white hair, if you really care that damn much. Even if you don't like the new Dante, I think NT captured all the essential dante characteristics and put their own spin on them. He is Dante because he has all the required Danteness. He is not Dante In Name Only, he's Dante in Essence. Vino, Sino, and Mino were not as fortunate.
Vergil is the one who hurts the most. He is suppose to be Dante's opposite but equal, brothers who both love each other deep down, but have conflicting philosophies and lifestyles. I already went over how Dante doesn't really care about anyone but Kat in this game above, so I'll focus on their failure to capture the second (and arguably more important) essential element of Vergil. In their reinterpretation, they turned Vergil into the smart guy constrasted to Dante's brute strength. This could have worked perfectly, you know, if they had written Vergil as a legitimately smart character. This is a classic example of telling, not showing. The only real display of Vergil's intelligence is his hacking, which is honestly just technobabble combined with plot device. This isn't intelligence in an organic form. There is nothing really showing that Vergil is smarter than dante when you put them in a room together. Not only that, but he is entirely dependent on Dante. How shit out of luck would he be if Dante just said "Well, okay, I now know my past....still don't care. Kat, if your ever in the mood for a good fuck, come by my place." and walked away? Vergil is goddamn helpless without Dante, while Dante could probably just move and take out whatever demons he needed to to stay safe. And even in the fight with Mundus, where he and Dante worked side by side, he had to constantly have his ass saved by his brother. He is obviously Dante's inferior. If he is supposedly smarter, it's not in any way that matters. And he's so outclassed in fighting ability that it's pathetic. What Vergil should have been is far more calculating have Dante join cause by some form of manipulation. Here's an easy example, and you wouldn't have to change much of the actual exchange.
What happened:
"Dante, please please please please join my group. Give me a chance. I promise, once I show you who you are, you'll definitely, truly want to stay."
What should have happened:
"Hello, Dante. I am Vergil. You want to join my organization and I am here to let you. Oh? You don't want to? Very well. I'll be sure to leave a blue rose at your funeral. You realize the only reason you are still alive is that you only ever had to fight the most minor of demons. That's changed now. Mundus knows who you are and will track you. Not here of course, we have systems of protection. Shame you're not staying. Mundus will send the armies of hell after you once your gone, you know. Why? Well, because of your father. Oh, you don't know who your father is? What about your mother Eva? No? Hmm. Oh, sorry, classified order information. I have to keep my secrets, you know. In any case, you go ahead and run along now, I don't want to keep you. My time is precious as well, and if it doesn't have to do with the Order, then I'm afraid I can't waste it. Enjoy the rest of your very short life outside this complex."
See how much more power he has here? Even if he is weaker than dante physically, he'd have total dominance, holding the secrets and his safety over his head. Intelligence vs strength, conflicting on equal grounds. And this could easily go on the entire game, him manipulating Dante by exploiting his desire to know more about himself, his relationship with Kat, etc, right up to the very end where Vergil just has to fight, and (again, while physically weaker), he can demonstrate greater battle tactics (perhaps using the environment to help him with the fight). It doesn't necessarily have to be mean like I suggested with my text, but he should never have been begging like a dog for scraps.
Sparda and Mundus suffer more in the translation however, probably due to their vagueness in the original DMC. The essence of Sparda was that he was a demon, a monsterous entity, that awakened to justice, kicked Mundus and the ENTIRETY OF HIS DEMON ARMY back to Hell, and placed several seals throughout the world that made. He was such a force to be reckoned with, essentially a god greater than even mundus, and yet he fought for what was right, and settled to have a family, which is a very human desire. In fairness, a lot of the depth of Sparda comes from vagueness and how the lore was set up for the fans to fill in the blanks (more on that later). But the essence of Sparda was that he had all the power in the world and was set to do great evil....and didn't. He did the opposite. Like the inverse of Lucifer. DmC's Sparda, at best, vaguely suggest his importance and power by being related to mundus and seemingly having a servant in phineas. But as soon as Mundus found out about Eva, he came down and manhandled him pretty easily. And that's where he's left, suffering for a thousand years, with Mundus not even bothering to pick out his replacement and not showing himself to be any worse for it. He didn't seem to do any great deeds or have a dramatic change of character or anything like that. He just happened to fall in love with Eva (for seemingly no reason, much like with Dante and Kat) and...that's it. But worse is how Dante and Vergil react to him. In DMC, his legacy wasn't merely the power that left the twins, but it was the effect that both parents had on both the twin's character. Both were taught that Sparda was a great demon/man by their mother, but then she was killed, and the twins reacted differently to both, with some truly effective dramatic and tragic irony involved in their character development. In Dmc, Sparda's contribution to the story is his sperm. He himself isn't important. It could have been any demons sperm, really. A lesser stygian could have screwed some random angel, and given birth to Dante and Vergil and everything would have been the same, because the important thing is that it's a demon/angel hybrid and....that's all. Sparda here is so much less meaningful than he was in DMC. Again, I stress that I am not simply bitching that Sparda has been changed, but because the essence of his character hasn't been kept intact. If they wanted to put more emphasis on Sparda being in love with Eva and show him as weaker, that would be perfectly fine, but they still need to include his awakening to justice, and his rebellion against demonkind. So, what I would do is have Eva be out on a mission to seduce Sparda into justice, and she does, falling in love with him in the process, to which they have a family. His newly awakened sense of justice and unique position in Mundus' army allows him to get closer than anyone else would be able to. However, he fails, but manages to make Mundus impotent, justifying Mundus' irrational desire to have a child. Sparda awakens to justice and rebels, while NT still put their own spin on the story, and it helps explain a plot element that otherwise makes no sense in the game.
And Mundus...well, it's not mundus so much as demons in general. Mundus and his army of demons were Evil, not evil as in the moral action as we understand it, but as a metaphysical concept. They wanted to kill and take over the human world because it was in their nature. Not the deepest of motivations, I'll grant you, but what I like about it is that it is truly alien. It's not about getting stuff because they need it or anything comprehensible by humans. I was perfectly willing to accept DmC's system of demons...but it falls apart because there is no point to this silly masquerade they put up. Before, it was assumed that demons could only affect limbo, but at the end, the Hellgate is closed, something Mundus could have done at any time, and limbo collapsed into the real world where the demons were seen. Why did they just not do that? Why not enslave us the normal, physical way, which would be much easier for them. Instead, they try to get at us with these soft drinks and crappy news reporters. They go through the trouble of keeping a society fully functional, yet on the brink of decadence and for what? Why? I honestly can't think of any reason except maybe that they're bored and decided to challenge themselves. It doesn't help that Mundus was made so much more human. I won't argue that he was some deep character in the original, but he was definitely alien like the rest of the demons were, not really able to comprehend why dante is so upset when "I can just make more artificial demons, just like Trish". Mundus of DmC doesn't have that excuse. He's very human in comparison. He has sexual urges, he lusts after human attention (evidence by his photo with all sorts of famous people), he is greedy, prideful....and he wants a kid for some reason (more on that later). Here, NT kept his sociopathy, but made him too human in the process, when he and the rest of the demons are suppose to be alien beings. It results in this contradiction of characteristics that make make him not a demon at all, but just a particularly dickish guy who is going through this silliness with limbo, when he could easily just openly rule humans like Mundus of old would do.
And then they, bizarrely, missed the one chance they had to expand on a DMC character that didn't have much characterization. They made Eva into an Angel and gave her a greater presense, but in the end, she is a copy of Eva. Her being an angel is, again, a plot device for Dante to be speshul and also get a new weapon, but her status as an angel isn't really commented upon. Here was a very good opportunity to turn the tables a bit. If Mundus can only be killed by a nephilim, it'd make more sense for Eva to have been the one who seduced Sparda (maybe fallen in love with him legitimately, but that's irrelevant) in order to breed a child that could kill Mundus. This would break away from her DMC characterization, but Eva was such a blank character there that they have plenty of foundation to build upon it. The essence of Eva was that she loved her sons and her death serves to motivate the twins in some way. NT do that here, in fact they establish this more than the DMC games by giving her her own character model and sequences in Mission 2, but don't do anything more with her when they could have done so much, especially with her new identity as an angel.
Vergil, Sparda, Mundus, NT failed all these characters. Dante and Kat alone stand up as realized characters the way they should be (if you see the essentials of the aforementioned DMC characters as I do, atleast), and it is their relationship that clearly has the most effort put into being realized. No, not just the character relationship, it's the single most important story element in the game, at the expense of nearly everything else, which is why the story ultimately fails to have any hold on the audience.
I don't predict that this story is gonna stay with people very long, unless you really, really liked the characters here for some reason. To make a story stay with an audience after the credits have rolled, you need some hooks to speculate on what is beyond that which is shown. This doesn't necessarily have to be something for a sequel, but just some mystery that provokes the audiences mind to wonder at it. Part of the reason that DMC had a huge story fanbase was also because of all the blanks that fans were left to fill because the lore suggested certain things, but didn't expand on them, allowing fans to assume a lot and make the universe feel bigger than merely what was happening in the story that was shown. Even DMC2 contributed to this. We had untold tales we could contemplate. What was the relationship between Mundus and Argosax (since they were both demon rulers), what awakened Sparda to justice, how did that war proceed exactly, what was Sparda's relationship with all the demons that mention knowing him personally, what happened to Dante after he rode into Hell in DMC2, etc. Lots of good hooks that fans were left with to speculate on.
In comparison, DmC's lore is so thread bare. To be clear, saying little and saying nothing at all isn't the same thing. A history between Beowulf and Sparda was suggested, and fans can make some assumptions off that. Because of how Beowulf is particularly enraged at the very mention of sparda, more than any other demon thousands of years later, I think it can be assumed that it was't just a betrayal of demon nature, but a personal betrayal of trust to him, and we are intrigued as to what their relationship could have been. Compare that to Mundus saying when he arrived to humanity a millennium ago. Where was he before? Why did he come? What were his goals? Any guess is as good as another. We have no foundation to build off of. Therefore, maybe he was kicked out of hell, or maybe he was just taking a very long nap, or maybe he was just bored, or maybe there was something he wanted. Who knows? It could be anything.
DmC had plenty of opportunities to give the players these kinds of hooks and it squandered all except the incident with phineas. A great example would be Bob. There is so much contradictory about him in comparison to the rest of demon kind. He seems to truly exist as this strange, abstract entity that Dante kills and then gets Aquila from. Why does Bob not have a physical demon body like everyone else? Why is he electronic when everyone else seemed to be made out of some kind of physical material? Why was he carrying around this archaic style angel chakram weapon? NT could have used this to expand on the capabilities of demonkind. Make Bob an artificial demon intelligence, which was made from Angel tech that demons corrupted. Not only do you take an out of place element within the story and make it flow seamlessly into the narrative, but you world build and give fans a hint of angel culture as well and give fans some possibilities to speculate on the next game that can include an expansion of more of these electronic demons as demon technology progresses.
Instead, everything moves along because it's what the plot needs at the moment, not caring whether this element of world building makes sense later. Dante needs some kind of reason to trust kat, so have the otherwise weakling Hunter be completely immune until she throws this random fire grenade thing at him, after which he is vulnerable for some reason. If whatever protection the Hunter had would have made him impervious to Dante's attacks, why don't ALL demons, or atleast important ones like Poison, have that? Why aren't there more Nephilim out there? If Nephilim can kill the demon king, and angels want to do that, and Mundus has political enemies, then both angels and demons should be eager to do the dirty and let their children destroy their common enemy. And Limbo. Goddamn, limbo, what sense do you even make? You might argue that limbo needs to be inexplicable because otherwise there is no reason it can't just crush a building on Dante, but I think it'd be perfect if there were 2 limbo, one operated by the angels like the hellgate is operated by the demons, and they interact. Angels, knowing Dante is their best hope in defeating Mundus, are constantly protecting him and generally keeping demon limbo from simply killing him. But I can't assume that because there is absolutely nothing indicating it in the game. The worst example is Mundus' baby. With Mundus being immortal, why is he even considering the possibility of a successor? If he is as sociopathic as he claims, why does he even want a kid even if he is going somewhere? Why not let it this entire facade that he built fall apart if he's not going to be there to enjoy it? And if he really wants a kid that bad, why doesn't he just fuck another one of his whores? Infact, why doesn't he impregnate a whole harem, so he has several children so if something happens to one of them, he can just shrug and appoint another as a successor?
No, instead, everything in DmC is there to serve the plot from one point to the next and not a tick more. The only exception, which I mentioned before, is when Phineas describes Assiel and their other abilities, but honestly, that just tells me that Dante is gonna visit heaven in the sequel, which I could have guessed. Better would have been to give me what those 'great things' that the nephilim did were.
In terms of characters, world building, and plot, DmC is a colossal failure not just on it's own, but in living up to what was a fairly good universe. All of NT's energy was put into trying to ignite a romance that never got off the ground. I'm very curious to know what happened here. I see two real options. One is that they simply didn't care. Their interest lie in teen romance, evidently, beyond anything else, and if they really focused on that and only used the DMC template out of sheer mandate from Capcom, then that proves beyond any doubt that they were not the studio to reboot the franchise. If Capcom had that much confidence in them, they should have made their own IP, where they could go all out in creating their action-adventure romance and spared DMC fans the disappointment of seeing Vergil, Sparda and Mundus being turned into such parodies of their former selves. The other option is that they are simply incompetent at writing a story, despite their enthusiasm.
IcyBlueStrawberry
Member
My thoughts on DMC after the first couple of hours:
I like this game.
I like this game.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
Just played a couple of hours and killed the succubus. I really enjoy the game, and can definitely see myself finishing it... opposed to DMC4, in which I just stopped.
(P.S. dat 60fps deliciousness)
(P.S. dat 60fps deliciousness)
Dave1988
Member
You spent more time and thought writing this rant than Tameem did writing Donte may Cry's junk story. Congratulations.
This last paragraph, and especially the bolded, indicates to me that you didn't understand either what the word "reboot" means or what NT and Capcom's intentions were when making DmC. In all honesty, Your 3000+ word essay read to me as, "The writing in here is garbage" which isn't (There are much worse.) and this isn't the DMC I come to know, recognize, and love so I'm hating on it even though it's a reboot. You word your post as trying to gauge the game's narrative as a reboot yet you keep treating it as if it's not. I thought it was a poorly written post that to convey to me that you didn't understand the text, in this case the game, and the author's intent.
Who is going to read this?
Sadly, I did. I thought it'd be more thoughtful and insightful but it read as anything but.
He pretty much hit on both as a reboot and as a tie in to typical DMC lore, it failed storywise on both accounts. For being a fresh slate: The characters and general plot are all over the place, plot threads make no sense at all, etc. though I do want to see where the Vergil DLC takes it. But again, what was the intention here, exactly? NT pitched it originally as the same continuity, and then later backed off that. I can't imagine they completely redid everything from that point, but it also doesn't work at all on that angle.
Even if there are far worse videogame stories out there, it's completely valid to rip into it given the tradeoff the series took with it.
Even if you aren't, or you did and disagree, are you SERIOUSLY trying to actively discourage people putting a lot of effort into a post? Like...what the fuck.
Even if there are far worse videogame stories out there, it's completely valid to rip into it given the tradeoff the series took with it.
Even if you aren't, or you did and disagree, are you SERIOUSLY trying to actively discourage people putting a lot of effort into a post? Like...what the fuck.
The man is very talented at writing terrible stories.
It seems that out of the two of us, it is you that doesn't understand what a reboot is. A reboot isn't a free reign to do anything you like. It is a restart of a franchise in a different flavor, but in keeping with the essentials of what the franchise is. For example, if Batman Begins starred a character called Bruce Wain, coming from a middle class family, who lost his way in a supermarket once and never found his parents, and has become a hobo with a batlike coat that prowls the streets of New York City, in search of shoplifters everywhere, even if it was the best written surreal psychological thriller ever, it'd still be a poor batman reboot.
This is a poor DMC reboot as it is not in keeping with the essentials of what DMC's Vergil, Mundus, and Sparda were. I even went so far as to suggest how they could have applied the same Brains vs Brawn mentality that they do in DmC, but remain in keeping with the essence of Vergil.
If that is lost on you, that's not my fault.
This indicates to me that you are hardly well versed in any kind of writing if your standards are "It isn't the worst crap ever, therefore it must be good".
No, I assure you, it is you who didn't understand the text I wrote.
If you honestly think that the DmC's plot and characters are all over the place then you have yet to play some of the worst narratives from games in 2012. Take AC3 for example. THAT is a game where the characters and the plot is all over the place.
I understand what a reboot is. Seems like you do too. However, your post above indicates otherwise. Yes, there are elements that must remain the same when rebooting a franchise or series. However, this means that only the essentials must remain. Let's use Batman for example. The plot point for why Bruce Wayne becomes Batman is important but how he gets there or what type of person he is irrelevant. A reboot serves as a re-imagining to bring out a fresh take on something old. What you described in your post doesn't do that. You constantly compare the old to the new rather than reflecting on what it tries to accomplish.
I study writing for a living. Also, I never implied such a thing as if it's not crap it's good. That rhetorical fallacy gets used so frequently I get sick of it, however, it's not viewed as a fallacy all the time. Rather it's a way of saying there are things out there that are much worse and in comparison this is better. That's all. Implying anything more is an enthymeme that you're creating. Not me. Don't try to pin your assumptions on me.
You don't have to assure that I didn't understand your post. I know what I read and I took it as what it said. If you're assuring me of something that isn't true to me then you've already failed to make your case in trying to convey your point. After all, at that point you just come across a pretentious ass.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Slowclap.jpg
Really couldn't of said it myself. And the worse thing is there is a lot more you could expand on in your criticism.
The tattoo and "devil trigger" key that are never explained, what limbo actual is and how the demons pull people into it in the first place, etc etc.
But I think this requires it's own spoiler thread you are giving a lot of the game away with your post.
I'm sorry, I forgot about spoilers. I'll fix it.
Also, yeah, I could have gone on, but those minor plot inconsistancies are small potatoes. One thing I totally forgot about in that post is the godawful and often nonsensical dialogue, but those are minor in the grand scheme of things. If DmC can't even get it's central driving story arc right, what hope do the small details have?
Also, yeah, I could have gone on, but those minor plot inconsistancies are small potatoes. One thing I totally forgot about in that post is the godawful and often nonsensical dialogue, but those are minor in the grand scheme of things. If DmC can't even get it's central driving story arc right, what hope do the small details have?
See the last minute edit I put in. It hurts a lot with DMC because of the tradeoffs it took with it, NT have done much better jobs on the story front so it's especially hurtful to see it fall flat here.
And yeah, AC3 was a fucking mess on the plot. No argument there!
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
So basically the argument is "it doesn't matter that it's shit, there is worse shit out there"
Excellent rebuttal.
As AC3 wasn't handed of to a developer who is lauded for explictly their supposed ability to create engaging narratives in videogames I don't know how the two are remotely comparable personally.
But, I will say this. It's pretty useless arguing failures in narrative on neogaf, as people seem to get emotionally attached to the idea of videogames as an artform being validated through misguided and ill-advised cinematic tropes. It doesn't matter if the actual plot, character development or even setting is full of more holes than a leaky bucket. This is something I see time and time again.
Excellent rebuttal.
As AC3 wasn't handed of to a developer who is lauded for explictly their supposed ability to create engaging narratives in videogames I don't know how the two are remotely comparable personally.
But, I will say this. It's pretty useless arguing failures in narrative on neogaf, as people seem to get emotionally attached to the idea of videogames as an artform being validated through misguided and ill-advised cinematic tropes. It doesn't matter if the actual plot, character development or even setting is full of more holes than a leaky bucket. This is something I see time and time again.
No. I'm saying that there are games out there where the narrative is much worse than DmC. I'm not saying disregard that DmC's story is shit. Rather in comparison there are actual redeeming elements in DmC's story when compared to the quality of other game's narratives.
If you think that was my rebuttal then I feel you didn't properly read my post.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I agree that the story is utter tripe, but it's at least charming tripe at times. That and I really don't care about story in games; the sooner mechanics-heavy games stop relying on telling stories, the better in my opinion. I'm much happier that NT's gameplay has improved, and really don't give a care that their storytelling isn't as good as it was in Heavenly Sword.
That's another thing I admire the early DMCs for, the stories are so over the top and frivolous. They don't get in the way of the game.
That's another thing I admire the early DMCs for, the stories are so over the top and frivolous. They don't get in the way of the game.
Well, even Meyer gets respect in some circles, I suppose.
How he becomes batman is very important. Go through all the lore you want, but you'll pretty much find that in all incarnations that matter, the driving force for him is his parents dying in front of his eyes. Nolan rebooted that right, in that he took that and put a new spin on it (he asked his parents to go out because of his own fear, making it partially his own fault that they're dead,). You wouldn't however turn his parents into space aliens that adopt bruce and try to kill him because that's not the essence of the story. And if you would, you shouldn't write batman.
The things I mentioned when comparing it to the old were what I considered essential parts. I wasn't longing for the days of yorn, I was saying what happened and why it worked and what was the essence of the character that NT should have tried to capture. Again, you'd know this if you read it. But I'm done arguing with you. It's time to sleep.
Edit: Let me write out another example, actually. Sparda. They want to emphasize his romance with Eva, fine, but they still need to include his awakening to justice, and his rebellion against demonkind. So Eva is out on a mission to seduce Sparda into justice, and she does, falling in love with him in the process, to which they have a family. His newly awakened sense of justice and unique position in Mundus' army allows him to get closer than anyone else would be able to. However, he fails, but manages to make Mundus impotent, justifying Mundus' irrational desire to have a child. Sparda awakens to justice and rebels, while NT still put their own spin on the story. Hire me, NT.
I don't get how this reputation even got off the ground. I didn't play Heavenly sword, but Enslaved was tripe as well. NT is well known for saying they want to create excellent narratives that elevate gaming. Not doing it.
Played for about 3 hours last night on the pc, looked lovely, really enjoyed what I have played so far.
Having no lock on is a bit annoying, so tried configuring the 360 pad to control like dark souls, so I could constantly swing the camera while using RB and RT to attack, left the left triggers the same, feels really good, but by my brain was melting when it came to jumps and dodging, ended up back with default, but I may do a little more tinkering today.
Having no lock on is a bit annoying, so tried configuring the 360 pad to control like dark souls, so I could constantly swing the camera while using RB and RT to attack, left the left triggers the same, feels really good, but by my brain was melting when it came to jumps and dodging, ended up back with default, but I may do a little more tinkering today.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Which is exactly what I just distilled your words into.
The story of DmC is validated because their are worse videogame stories.
Ok then.
Whether the games story has redeeming elements are neither here nor there. We are talking how the overall narratives fails at what it is set out to achieve on many different levels. Whether or not it is more or less serviceable than other games is besides the point, especially considering the circumstances that led to this games development and choice of developer.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Basically andy serkis.
People confuse well acted characters and excellent motion capture with a good story.
That said, heavenly sword, while full of its own plot holes did at least have a competent narrative of a reluctant hero who sacrifices herself for the greater good.
No. Your words were "it doesn't matter that it's shit, there is worse shit out there." That's not what I'm saying. If you seriously think that what I said and what you said are the same then I believe you have a serious semantical misunderstanding on your hand. While they both appear to be the same they're not. Your saying completely disregards DmC making it irrelevant since the focus is on "worse shit." It's a form of directing the focus elsewhere and can be a type of red herring. What I said brings the two elements together for a purpose of saying a comparison.
If the bolded is what you're talking about then why even bother to respond to a specific problem you had with my post especially it's been made clear that you didn't understand what I was trying to say? If it's not relevant to what the topic was at hand, why bother?
Glass Rebel
Member
this is quite the weird typo.
Wow. What a major edit fail. *sigh*.
You proved my point. The constant 40~60 variation is very noticeable in the demo. I'm not by any means implying that it's the same as PS3 DmC (that is almost unplayable for me), but it's not locked 60 and it really would benefit of a PC version. I already preordered mine, but I'll double dip without second thought if a PC version ever comes out and give my PS3 copy to a friend or whatever.
Glass Rebel
Member
Funchameleon
Banned
Just binged through on Nephilim and I have to say it was fantastic. The art direction and cinematic gameplay combine into a generational leap in overall presentation over DMC4 (a game I adore in every respect). The final mission is gorgeous.
The combat is quite brilliant and downright thrilling as its possibilities unfold before you in the first playthrough. The skill ceiling is astronomically lower than 4 or even 3 at its most technical, but the is easily on par in enjoyability, satisfaction and creativity for all but advanced veterans of the genre.
The replayability is severely damaged by the extended platform sequences and unskippable cutscenes, especially in the early levels, but is largely forgivable.
A whole lot of people said this Dante was just like the old Dante. He isn't at all; but he's likable and a successful protagonist regardless.
The combat is quite brilliant and downright thrilling as its possibilities unfold before you in the first playthrough. The skill ceiling is astronomically lower than 4 or even 3 at its most technical, but the is easily on par in enjoyability, satisfaction and creativity for all but advanced veterans of the genre.
The replayability is severely damaged by the extended platform sequences and unskippable cutscenes, especially in the early levels, but is largely forgivable.
A whole lot of people said this Dante was just like the old Dante. He isn't at all; but he's likable and a successful protagonist regardless.
I'm just fucking with you, dude
I never took your response as offensive or anything. lol. I was going back and doing a rough edit and noticed that the "serious" didn't have a -ly at the end. i added it to the wrong word. Ugh.
See, I actually feel like the combat is limited because weapons don't have as many moves as I expected... maybe that's just me.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Wait, which cutscenes are unskippable? Press back if you're using a pad on PC.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Yeah I agree it is not locked 60, but at least their target was 60. Bayonetta wasn't locked 60 (talking 360 of course) from what I remember either. All games deserve PC versions.
Some of them don't let you skip right away (a good 5-10 second delay and it's not because of loading), I know that for sure. Might as well be unskippable.
The demon weapons specifically feel limited to me. A lot of emphasis on being suspended in midair is pretty much shot when all you can do is a downward smack or an axe toss. I kept feeling like they needed some more comboability. I liked the angel side even if they didn't do enough damage--making blue enemies a chore.
The smaller transitional things, like dante ripping out the cameras or seeing something in the environment move around. Worst offender is mission 2 with the going in the eye camera repeating the same lines. You can skip a lot of things but these still crop up a fair amount.
The smaller transitional things, like dante ripping out the cameras or seeing something in the environment move around. Worst offender is mission 2 with the going in the eye camera repeating the same lines. You can skip a lot of things but these still crop up a fair amount.
Hahahaha. I remember that.
I HATE the unskippable cutscene where they first introduce you to the demonic shards or whatever they call it. It gave my nightmares because of my time with the demo, so much that I started just beating the first segment of enemies and quickly restarting checkpoint so I don't have to deal with this kind of bullshit. No cutscenes should be unskippable. :C
Oh, if that's your point, then I agree with you. Targeting 60 is always the best. BMC changed everything for me, can't wait for that game <3
Oh, if that's your point, then I agree with you. Targeting 60 is always the best. BMC changed everything for me, can't wait for that game <3
Funchameleon
Banned
Basically any of them that represent state changes in the level (THE DEBRIS IS BLOCKING YOUR EXIT HERE COME THE ENEMIES) or introduce enemies, and some totally inexplicable instances. Most of them are short, almost always less than 10 seconds, but I feel they will all be annoying the 4th time through.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Oh, yeah, those. Yeah, some of the STORY INTEGRATION parts are annoying, but they're quick and stylish enough that I haven't gotten tired of the campaign yet.
Bayonetta's framerate was even lower than MGR. It still plays great but I'd rather they were running at a locked 60fps like RAGE for example (only example I know for sure is running at a locked 60fps. Was DMC4 also running at 60fps at all time? I've only played the PC version).
Fried Food
Banned
I need someone to help me determine whether or not this game is good enough or has enough depth to deserve having me spend time attaining a higher level of mastery. I've already beat the game.
I have one question: Are all enemy attacks choreographed with identifiable sounds?.
I have one question: Are all enemy attacks choreographed with identifiable sounds?.
Yeah. They typically highlight themselves as well.
Too bad PC version still just actually means Windows version. Wish all games had Mac/Linux versions too!
Anyways, "perceptual" 60fps on consoles sucks too, because whenever a game loses 60 you get stuttering since it doesn't evenly divide into the refresh rate anymore. Makes camera control feel especially wonky.
Yes, it won't make you hate them in your first run through the campaign, but when you're playing it for the 4th time it starts to get REALLY annoying. Hopefully Bloody Palace will come to the rescue before I can't stand them anymore.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Agree 100% that more games should be on none-windows operating systems. I agree about the 60fps problem but most games can barely even manage to keep in 30FPS when they lock themselves to that. I generally think aiming for 60FPS is ideal even if it dips sometimes (at least when a developer does that they are proclaiming that frame rate is important to them).
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I think you are confusing embellishment with misunderstanding what you said. If you followed the chain of posts above it at no point did I say DmCs story was shit. However, to emphasis the silliness of your point, I embellished using reductive terms.
I thought that would be pretty obvious, but at this point your quite right, we are arguing semantics. The point is, the fact weaker narratives exist do not exclude this narrative from criticism and cannot be used as a mitigating counterpoint to a detailed opinion of where said narrative fails.
I never said you said DmC's story was shit. Your quote was only an interpretation of what I had posted. And it's not embellishing. It is misunderstanding. If the meaning is not made clear and causes a confusion that's the point of misunderstanding.
I never said it was excluded or said it's an excuse for letting bad narratives get a free pass. I never said such a thing or implied such a thing. My original post was that there are games with far worse narrative elements than DmC and AC3 was my example. Just that. Anyway, this argument is becoming clearly circular since you have the idea that I'm misunderstanding you and you're failing to understand what I'm trying to say even though I said the same thing twice, this post making it basically a third. I don't want to have a meaningless discussion so I'm just going to end it here.
That's true I suppose. Even if it does turn out less than ideal, the thought (which invariably gets reflected into the design of the game itself), counts for a bit.
And yeah I really hope that Valve's Linux (& Mac by extension of it being a fully POSIX compliant *nix platform that uses OpenGL) push changes things.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll