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DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!

S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
Retro_ said:
You could run DMC3. DMC4 too probably. (My laptop can run DMC4 at a stable 60 full screen)

Not sure about PCSX2 though lol
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I've been playing DMC4. But it was released after Capcom really stepped up their PC ports, whereas DMC3 was when they were still infamously bad.

I miss Agni and Rudra though. Lucifer doesn't compare.
 
T

TimeInc

Member
Well finally done pretty much everything. Unlocked all the concept art. The 'rare' piece that required you to do 5,000,000 damage took way too long to get, i'd already done the game through about 10 times and still was about 1million off. SSS'd human mode through to DMD mode, not going to bother trying to SSS Heaven and Hell and Hell or Hell. Gunna give the game a rest now until they release bloody palace

Also in the difficulty menu it's called Hell or Hell, but under the concept art it's called Hell and Hell. Just a random thing I noticed.
 
G

gunbo13

Member
Veelk said:
snip
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Well it is difficult to compare two games without generalizing. Are all the weapons "actual" re-skins? Of course not. I was only trying to emphasize the lack of individuality between them compared to DMC3. Compared to other games, Bayo trumps the vast majority of the wannabes. Against NG, there is some argument even though I give the edge to some NG titles. And you are only saying I'm favoring my known intricate areas with DMC3 since I use those examples. That's just tone though. How much of a disparity can you get between Nevan and Cerberus? Even novice players can notice things like Nevan providing aerial defense with air play. The same can be said for Cerberus with it's rapid hit stun. Yet both of those can't do what the other does nearly the same in those regards. You can also just take a quick gander at E&I vs. Kalina Ann. Artemis against any other weapon is also an easy choice. Those are not intricate examples that only hundreds of hours of study reveal.

There is also misinterpretation with my playing of Bayo. I beat it on all difficulties and only casually picked it up since a few times. However, I didn't mention that I played Bayo the ENTIRE TIME trying to unlock combat potential. I literally gave two shits about anything else in the game including the story, most bosses, and platforming. Once I saw how easy normal was, that's all I did. I was trying to figure out combos, toying in the training arena, opening up new skills, trying to weave them in (pun intended), etc... I say you can abuse wicked weave and it lowers combat reward for styling. This is true. That doesn't mean that's what I did. When I spend that many hours simply focused on exploiting the combat, I don't believe I shortchanged trying to learn about the game. I saw differences in the weapons but just felt that they were so negligible that I wasn't favoring one over the other. I started to focus on specific sets trying to see if I could exploit them individually and just kind of kept the status quo. Most of the styling is just extended aerials anyway or maybe some witch time vertical shenanigans. Which also leads me to a gripe I have about Bayo that I didn't bring up but loathe; mash finishers. Talk about breaking the combat flow. It needs to die or something yet it's now a staple in these titles... It's just awful.

So I really don't see how intricate knowledge of one title is leading me to exaggerate anything. The weapon system is great but not even close to as balanced/polished as DMC3. That's all I've been saying. And since I literally spent 15+ hours trying to disprove my theory, I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I think you are just reading too much into it.
V_Arnold said:
1) In Bayonetta, Combat Reward is the visual awesomeness that is on the screen when you are using insane variations of attacks. If one cant appreciate the visual feedback part of a game - especially when it is tied to interactive parts, not just background flavors, then we might as well go back a generation or two.
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I find combat reward for visual awesomeness to be only part of the equation. In fact, I think it is the lesser of what is possible. Combat reward, if done right, should be applicable to gameplay. This is especially true if the visual flair has a low learning curve. Might as well push it to cinematic finishers.
V_Arnold said:
2) Now, I start to feel where you are coming from, and it is fine. You should not have to search for depth, you say, yet, why is "hidden" depth something developers should avoid? I am glad that there is a masterpiece in the market that allows that as well.
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Titles of different flavors is always great. However, I find the best action games to have depth on the surface and allow you to travel down the rabbit hole. DMC3 does this extremely well, far better then DMC4. And NG also has a knack for giving the player strong options without making them dig too deep. Bayo as well but I find that it is too lopsided. I feel most casual players are likely playing very similarly, though this of course is totally unfounded. You have this toolkit but do players even have time typically to even find this depth? Should depth be reserved only for those that have oodles of time to blow or expert action gamers?

I am not saying Bayo does a bad job of presenting combat depth. It even has tutorials. But maybe even that is a bad thing? The most intricate things I have found in DMC3 do not exist on any FAQ. And I don't even find Bayo to be an FAQ type title as it is more free-flow. It just isn't as good as DMC3 in this regard. Call me bias but I'm just calling it like it is.
V_Arnold said:
Anyway, back to Bayonetta vs DMC: my point is: it is clear that you do not prefer the things Bayonetta offers to you. But that still should not matter in a clear comparison, imho. The less biased outcome is one that puts them next to each other, as they both allow drastically different experiences, even though they share a genre.
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I prefer Bayo for what it does right. Dodge offset and the forms are fantastic. I wish they were elsewhere and implemented as well. However, I find most other areas fall short of the rest of the trinity. It isn't about not understanding that there are different experiences to these titles. Hell, NG is way different then this pair and I could go on forever about that. Just how you traverse both combat axis is leagues different.

I see DMC3 as the set standard in action game combat. Maybe you can think of 3rd Strike as an easy comparison. Many love it for the depth but others just don't like the flavor of it. Or maybe it isn't punishing enough like Super Turbo. Yet subsequent fighters can be said to be better mostly since they are simply newer, expanded on the old. DMC4 would be a game that expanded on the past but completely fucked up what DMC3 set as a standard. Bayo is more of an extension of these past titles adding great things. It did not have gaping holes like DMC4 did, and DMC4 did in spades with simple things like enemy balance to a damn character (Dante), but it just wasn't as well done in many areas. It felt like a title that bloated itself a bit too much and really sold itself short embracing some flawed modern ideas. I'm not a fan of the massive RPG farming to fill your inventory up. It's cumbersome and again only rewards those with oodles of time. I'm not a fan of just having so many of these weapons feeling like they are more variations when a lower count with more care would have been better. I'm also not a particular fan of all the simple combat strings with all the variations. I'd rather there be more disparity between them. Like a grouping that feels more charge based or another that is based on just inputs. Bayo has this but it's spread all over the place.

I'm not saying Bayo is a bloated title. It isn't. It offers a ton which is great for players. But I will say it is spread too thin in many regards which hurts its overall design. I can't imagine the amount of care involved to tweak Nevan in DMC3 or Dante's style system in DMC4. Even NG's environmental/stage design deserves serious bonus points. In order to make up for this IMO, dodge offset and forms are there. This gives the player the ability to segment the combat system themselves, leading to some seriously crazy free-form shit. Yet wouldn't it be even better if the move list held strong enough as is? Dodge offset with what I imagine to be a better constructed system would be unbelievably awesome. I'd be playing Bayo way way more then I have or do. This of course pretty much hinges on more weapon design care but that's just what comes with the territory.

I'm delving into more of a wishlist now but I only feel Bayo could be so much more. And it is mainly enough for players who enjoy different things about action games then I do. That's why I heavily stress that I am bias towards playing action games how I like. This is not the same as bias towards DMC3 or other titles. DMC3 just allows me to pretty much enjoy an action game how I prefer because it is designed that way. Bayo just teases the opportunity. It was frustrating to put it down when I realized that the rabbit hole hit bottom way quicker then I expected. And I wasn't about to reinvent what I enjoyed about action games to continue.
Retro_ said:
the variety comes in the form of hold actions, dodge offset utility, special attack modifiers and even just what limb its on.
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I agree with this.
Retro_ said:
This strikes me as odd as hell coming from a high level DMC player
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I addressed this above.
lowhighkang_LHK said:
I appreciate the weapons in Bayonetta more than Gunbo does, but from a general view point, I personally felt - that if you became proficient with one weapon you can pretty much wreck town with them all instantly. Durga felt like a nice change of pace that really required you to take a seat back and analyze it a bit, but everything else just felt similar.
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Well I was a bit harsh (as usual) on the weapons. They are great but I'm comparing them to the title that I believe has the best weapon balance in action gaming. So I'm going to say it is a lot to definitely a little less. I think Bayo is a great title and it shits on pretty much all other games with it's weapon system. So I really don't want to give the impression that I dislike it. That's far from the truth, it's really well done overall. It just is outclassed by DMC3 and with some argument DMC4, NGB, etc...

Great point about wrecking town and one I didn't bring up. Just give me Shuraba + anything. I'll coast to the finish line. I'd probably take Odette along with it. I was unhappy that I wasn't drawn to other weapon sets based on gameplay. The other titles make this mandatory. But this is also related to the difficulty curve which is skewed. Did I also mention that it is ridiculous that you can't start Bayo on hard!?!?! That's actually my BIGGEST complain with the title. Like for real, I have to dredge through this cake walk, enemies dying so fast I can't explore options? Guh. Yea, that I can say I unanimously hate without accord. It fucking sucks.
Solune said:
Where have you been sir?! Been MIA for quite a while everywhere. Great post though.
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Real life shit. But now I really want to play more of Bayo. lol Time to make some time! Maybe... My opinion won't change though. :p Though my 360 really works like shit. :(
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Man when is BP going to drop. We have run out of things to discuss.

But real talk Kablooey stacks into Buy In is SUPER potent. I totally stole that from the Japanese guy.
 
P

PepperJack

Banned
Slowly going through SoS - I suck.
I find the combat is better animated and more fun than previous DMCs *puts up flame shield*
Probably not as technical, but for someone with little time on their hands, I probably won't delve too deep into even this fighting system. Blown away by the art direction, still.

I read the Vergil's Downfall comics, pretty cool stuff. I was half expecting that's what the DLC will be about, but it turns out it will cover the events just after DmC. There are several new enemies from the trailer, and I seriously hope they make it into bloody place (even without DLC purchase). Hopefully Vergil will also be playable in BP, but from Capcom Unity forums that's questionable.

This thread and revengeance thread are the only reason I check NEOGAF these days, keep it alive folks!
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
You know all this talk about weapon balance I feel the DMC series has always been really good at weapon balance. The only major exception I could think of is in DMC1 where the Grenade Gun was too good compared to the other fire arms but the devil arms were perfectly balanced (there were only two so not hard to balance). Even in DmC the weapon balance is quite good.
 
C

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Vergil's Downfall on the 27th then? Hopefully so, can't say I'm that interested in battling candy coated rats across 100 floors.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
If it's anything like SFxT updates it's gonna be a while

We only just got the characters on PC last week. a whole half year after console.

I don't expect it to be that bad since it's free, but you'll probably be waiting a minute after both console versions come out
 
I

iavi

Member
Retro_ said:
If it's anything like SFxT updates it's gonna be a while

We only just got the characters on PC last week. a whole half year after console.

I don't expect it to be that bad since it's free, but you'll probably be waiting a minute after both console versions come out
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DmC uses Steamworks, so we won't be waiting anywhere near as long, and the beta builds of the Vergil DLC and BP mode are already in Steam, so it can't be too far out now.

It's just the lack of communication that grates.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Miizy F Baby said:
DmC uses Steamworks, so we won't be waiting anywhere near as long, and the beta builds of the Vergil DLC and BP mode are already in Steam, so it can't be too far out now.

It's just the lack of communication that grates.
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Wow

I'm jealous

Still waiting on 1.08 over here on SFxT
 
F

Funchameleon

Banned
It took them like 2 weeks to tell us what the fuck the PC patch did and even then it's just some hand-me-down info on general changes sought out by Capcom-unity's Greg. I expect BP to be out sometime next year.
 
I

iavi

Member
Dahbomb said:
LMAO at this blatant rip off. At least the action scene before the end was way better than anything in DmC.
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That shit was so corny. It was like Gackt took up cinematics. If that's really what you wanted out of DmC, I'm sure as hell glad we didn't get it.
 
F

Funchameleon

Banned
As expected the consoles are getting the tweaks that came (probably early) in the PC patch.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/gregama...weaks-coming-to-dmc-next-week-via-free-update

::UPDATE:: Just got word that the rumble issue in the PC version will also be getting a fix tomorrow.

DmC fans, I'm very excited to announce two pieces of DmC news today.

First, we have a release date for the long-awaited Bloody Palace Mode! This highly-anticipated mode will go live via a free update next week by the following time table:

North America - PS3: Tuesday, 2/19 | Xbox 360: Wednesday, 2/20
Europe - PS3: Wednesday, 2/20 | Xbox 360: Wednesday, 2/20

Second, the free update next week for Bloody Palace will be accompanied by a patch that addresses a few major pieces of fan feedback we've received since the launch of the DmC demo. The most notable ones are given below.

-Poison AI issue addressed (she no longer enters non-interactive state)
-Lessened damage and style boost from Demon Evade
-Arbiter "Drop" now causes damage and style gain even if jump-canceled
-Non-damaging moves no longer provide style points
-Damage done by weakest enemies increased
-Damage done by all enemies increased on Nephilim and Son of Sparda modes
-Adjusted attack (parry) windows for Rage spin move.
-SS and SSS will now decay back down to S if you stop gaining style
-No more eternal angel glide (where Dante flies around)

So yay! Look forward to all that next week.
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I guess they fixed endless glide in the PC patch
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
ezekial45 said:
Wow, I didn't know Arbiter's Drop didn't do damage when you JC'd it.
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Has been known since the demo.

The change is welcome because Arbiter's air combo potential is nill.

They have added more changes than the PC version. The fact that non damaging moves causing style points gain is something that I was complaining about since day 1 of the demo. Too easy to abuse in order to get high style points. I also like Neph and SOS made harder although DMD bosses remain unchanged which makes me sad.
 
-tetsuo-

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
gunbo13 said:
Accessibility is the biggest difference between the titles. One rewards, one punishes. In that respect DMC3 always feels more like an older Capcom fighter. If you drop you link, you pay a BIG price. Often the game resorts to cheap tactics, much like the difficult brawlers of old. Bayo on the other hand is much more modernized. It's more free-form, open, and just way way easier. The first time I played Bayo I beat both normal and hard in a little over 10 hours combined. I even watched the cut-scenes and didn't speed through it. The enemies are more forgiving, it's less pattern + punish, and you are given many tools for survival. The more RPG feel also emphasizes survivability as opposed to DMC3 which is basically, you aren't going to survive unless you are on the ball.
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I am in the minority again I guess in that Bayoneta is WAY harder for me than DMC3. I died like 4 times a mission in Bayonetta.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I wonder why they changed the timing on the Rage Roll parry. I do find myself getting hit by this move a lot when trying to parry it so I guess they adjusted that.

Its very good that they are acknowledging the fan feedback and implementing the changes. It was sort of expected that it would take time for them to implement the changes from the demo feedback. I want to see them keep making changes.

I hope they adjust the bosses in DMD mode and add a layer of damage scaling to DT plus demon dodge (or don't allow them to stack) because killing a DMD boss in 3-4 hits without using any glitch or exploit is a bit of a joke. Granted they probably didn't receive feedback of this until Weeks after the game's release when the fans powered through DMD.
 
P

PepperJack

Banned
Is there a word on the PC version of BP?
Are we just to assume it's also Feb 20? Otherwise that would be fairly annoying if it gets delayed.

Hope they do something fresh and unexpected with BP (like give you constrains with each floor).
 
T

That Dude John

Member
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The "end of February" is the release date.
 
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