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DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!

Dahbomb

Member
New Vergil is best Vergil. Dahbomb is just mad because he got slapped down by Donte. Come at me.
Nah man old Vergil got slapped around by old Dante plenty but new Vergil was never a legitimate threat (ie. not menacing) and wasn't motivated enough.

By the time you end the Vergil DLC you are aching for that Dante/Vergil rematch. So yea I felt it did a better job of developing Vergil's character than the main game.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Nah man old Vergil got slapped around by old Dante plenty but new Vergil was never a legitimate threat (ie. not menacing) and wasn't motivated enough.

By the time you end the Vergil DLC you are aching for that Dante/Vergil rematch. So yea I felt it did a better job of developing Vergil's character than the main game.

It's probably going to look like Dante vs. Vergil 1 from DMC3. Then Dante will unlock his true power, denoted by chin length white hair of course, where he will proceed to defeat Vergil once again.

Sorry I just spoiled DmC2 for everyone.
 
I dislike the traditional way BP works in the series, with floors and especially time limits.

I wish it was just a horde/endurance/survival thing with random enemy spawns increasing in number/frequency/harder enemies as time went on.

I prefer this secret mission to traditional BP.

It's probably going to look like Dante vs. Vergil 1 from DMC3. Then Dante will unlock his true power, denoted by chin length white hair of course, where he will proceed to defeat Vergil once again.

Sorry I just spoiled DmC2 for everyone.
Yeah, it's a shame that from mission 20, to the DLC, they gave up on doing anything different and better then the old series and gave into pandering.
 

Dahbomb

Member
It's probably going to look like Dante vs. Vergil 1 from DMC3. Then Dante will unlock his true power, denoted by chin length white hair of course, where he will proceed to defeat Vergil once again.

Sorry I just spoiled DmC2 for everyone.
I have already said numerous times that DmC2 looks to pave the way for DMC3. Dante already has white hair, Vergil gets spiky gelled back hair and motivated for more power. Only thing missing are the actual devil forms.
 

Endo Punk

Member
Show me proof this happened.

Heavenly Sword having major problems and switching platforms should be well known. The source eludes me but this was way back in 2007/8 and don't care enough to dig it out, considering you are a fan of the studio you should probably check into the fact HS nearly bankrupted them before Sony decided to publish, and do most of the work like Capcom did with DmC.

I have already said numerous times that DmC2 looks to pave the way for DMC3. Dante already has white hair, Vergil gets spiky gelled back hair and motivated for more power. Only thing missing are the actual devil forms.

So much for NT improving the franchise. So basically Capcom will do most of the work for the gameplay leaving NT to copy and paste DMC3 story elements and play around with motion tech. Biggest hacks in the gaming world.
 

Korigama

Member
I have already said numerous times that DmC2 looks to pave the way for DMC3. Dante already has white hair, Vergil gets spiky gelled back hair and motivated for more power. Only thing missing are the actual devil forms.
Well, that and both actually being half-human, not half-angel. And Sparda not being some lamer who hid from and got stepped on by Mundus (no reason for Arkham or anyone else to want the power of such a weak demon).
 

ezekial45

Banned
Heavenly Sword having major problems and switching platforms should be well known. The source eludes me but this was way back in 2007/8 and don't care enough to dig it out, considering you are a fan of the studio you should probably check into the fact HS nearly bankrupted them before Sony decided to publish, and do most of the work like Capcom did with DmC.

So much for NT improving the franchise. So basically Capcom will do most of the work for the gameplay leaving NT to copy and paste DMC3 story elements and play around with motion tech. Biggest hacks in the gaming world.

I asked you to show me proof of this, and yet all you do is embellish further. Look, I get you that you don't like NT, but claiming they're hacks and cause nothing but trouble for publishers is nothing but a lie on you're part. Especially the one with Capcom doing the work for them. You hate the game so much, you won't even let them have the fact they developed it themselves. It's amazing, really.

As Capcom said before DmC's release, Ninja Theory did well with the game, and have intentions to work with them again. Despite what you think, this was one of their better relationships with western studios.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/08/16/capcom-us-japans-creative-relationship-with-uks-ninja-theory/
http://www.vg247.com/2013/01/11/dmc-the-final-interview-staking-the-heart-of-perception/

Honestly, I'm sick of this bullshit from you. Cause that's all it is with you regarding this game. You want the worst for NT and this game, and I can tell you that it's unhealthy and wrong. So grow up.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Ninja Tam was in the PS4 developer montage so I imagine the relationship can't be all that bad between the two.
 

ezekial45

Banned
Ninja Tam was in the PS4 developer montage so I imagine the relationship can't be all that bad between the two.

One of the reasons why they couldn't use the tech they created for HS was because they were still an independent studio and it used proprietary Sony technologies. They choose to stay independent and moved on to UE3 to be a multiplatform developer. So this has nothing to do with pissing off Sony -- this is only a creation of people who have an axe to grind.
 

Endo Punk

Member
Their relationship is so good with Sony that they will never let them touch HS again. And I believe there is an interview after the launch of DmC where Itsuno confirmed that NT had no clue about bosses and gameplay and needed to be heavily schooled. I don't want the worse for NT I just think they should know their place, work on original games and try to repair damage they have brought upon themselves in the eyes of gamers instead of fixing franchises that are not broke.
 
Their relationship is so good with Sony that they will never let them touch HS again. And I believe there is an interview after the launch of DmC where Itsuno confirmed that NT had no clue about bosses and gameplay and needed to be heavily schooled. I don't want the worse for NT I just think they should know their place, work on original games and try to repair damage they have brought upon themselves in the eyes of gamers instead of fixing franchises that are not broke.

Really this whole thing is due to the terms they used in marketing. If they had refereed to this game as a "Side universe", I bet you anything the shitstorm would not be anywhere near as big.
 

ezekial45

Banned
Their relationship is so good with Sony that they will never let them touch HS again. And I believe there is an interview after the launch of DmC where Itsuno confirmed that NT had no clue about bosses and gameplay and needed to be heavily schooled. I don't want the worse for NT I just think they should know their place, work on original games and try to repair damage they have brought upon themselves in the eyes of gamers instead of fixing franchises that are not broke.

Show me.

And once again, for the 1000th time, Capcom went to NT for DmC -- not the other way around. It's like you believe NT waltzed into Capcom JPN while they hard at work on DMC5, trashed all their design docs and art assets, and told them DmC was the way to go. That's just not how it happened, sir.

NT made the game they were brought in to make, all with Capcom's supervision and guidance; and if you somehow interpret that as NT being disrespectful to Capcom's legacy, then I just don't know what to tell you.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Show me.

And once again, for the 1000th time, Capcom went to NT for DmC -- not the other way around. It's like you believe NT waltzed into Capcom JPN while they hard at work on DMC5, trashed all their design docs and art assets, and told them DmC was the way to go. That's just not how it happened, sir.

NT made the game they were brought in to make, all with Capcom's supervision and guidance; and if you somehow interpret that as NT being disrespectful to Capcom's legacy, then I just don't know what to tell you.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/1/30/39...-long-distance-romance-with-ninja-theory-that

"I remember, during the first stages of development, one of the illustrations we got for a regular enemy had this huge blade on his right elbow," Itsuno said. "It was actually on pretty much all the enemies! Apparently the designer really liked putting blades on people's elbows."

"So we asked how the guy was gonna attack with this blade," Eshiro continued, "and the reply was 'Oh, he doesn't use it much'. So we said 'No, no, that's not going to work as a game' and had them rethink it a little bit."

Yet another difference of opinion in game design lay in the creation of DmC's bosses. In Itsuno's eyes, the first boss designs were flat and uninteresting, basically just minion-level enemies blown up to huge size. "In samurai dramas," he said, "you have the idea of the bad guy getting slain in this incredibly flashy manner by the good guy. It's part of the role of a boss to make the player feel really good as they defeat it. Meanwhile, overseas the philosophy seems to be more like 'No boss is gonna move around so flashily and ask to get killed like that'. To get them to understand this, we explained everything out on whiteboards. It'd be like 'If the boss moves like this, then this is how the player feels, so let's have the boss go like this.' We'd trade drawings along those lines."

The article is obviously painted in a positive light about Ninja Theory overcoming their weaknesses, but there's little doubt that Ninja Theory needed very very heavy handed management and advisement during the early and middle portions of development. There is no way that Ninja Theory could have made a game that played remotely as well as DmC without heavy input from Capcom.
 

ezekial45

Banned
Really this whole thing is due to the terms they used in marketing. If they had refereed to this game as a "Side universe", I bet you anything the shitstorm would not be anywhere near as big.

This, unfortunately. I'll admit, they did screw up the reveal, which essentially doomed them from the start because it defined too early. If they did say it was an alternate universe title or side story, then yeah, people would be judging this game more fairly, instead of what it represents.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/1/30/39...-long-distance-romance-with-ninja-theory-that

The article is obviously painted in a positive light about Ninja Theory overcoming their weaknesses, but there's little doubt that Ninja Theory needed very very heavy handed management and advisement during the early and middle portions of development. There is no way that Ninja Theory could have made a game that played remotely as well as DmC without heavy input from Capcom.

I am not in any way denying that NT had shortcomings that Capcom assisted with overcoming. NT is now a better developer after working with Capcom. But what I am contesting is that NT is shoddy developer that haphazardly put together a game that Capcom JPN had to piece together. Which is what Endo Punk is insinuating.

This is completely not the case.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Heavenly Sword has potential if they scrap the combat system completely. It could be a GoW clone but with some additional depth and options. Of course they need to bring in epic monsters for you to right to make it interesting... fighting humans is what Dynasty Warriors is for.
 

Dibbz

Member
Heavenly Sword was great. The characters, and the world were really interesting. I'd love if Sony fleshed it out with another game even without NT. If it was rock solid 30fps and didn't take an age to load I'd play it a lot more.
 
Man, where was that Vergil in the main campaign?

He didn't want Mundus to know he was a Nephilim, that way he could operate from the shadows.

But yeah, missed opportunity in the main game to have playable Vergil/AI partner Vergil, to help develop his and Dante's bond by having them fight together. Along with making him seem actually competent in the main game...
 
AND SO IT BEGINS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFv0ktUKZ-Y

Vergil's Downfall Combo Video

interest rising.......

This is the vergil I want to see. Hopefully he is modded into the main campaign on the PC version.

Edit: Just watched the cutscenes.

I can't believe im typing this.

DmC vergil possibly = DMC3 Vergil. Honestly, in terms of narrative. He is better.



Couple spoliers

Dante is the older brother, not Vergil

Power......... I need more power.

Taneem has either left Ninja theory or didn't work on this DLC at all

I don't think there is DMC fan in here that will be disappointed with the DLC. In my view, based on that video. Its much better than the base game.

will purchase.
 

Dahbomb

Member
AND SO IT BEGINS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFv0ktUKZ-Y

Vergil's Downfall Combo Video
Epic, stirring, emotional, gripping, sensational, AAA, genuine etc.

This is the Vergil we deserved in the main campaign. Imagine being hit by those combos in-game... ouch.


I don't think there is DMC fan in here that will be disappointed with the DLC. In my view, based on that video. Its much better than the base game.
I agree with this. Less color coated enemies, less cutscene interruptions, non social commentary story line replaced by character driven story, more isolated feeling, better environments, no subliminal They Live messages throughout the game. I was left wanting more.

I would play a whole game based off this, just give me more weapons. Vergil for life.
 
Platforming is a lot faster it seems since Vergil's methods of traversal and grabbing/pulling are much faster.

So, when is this official available for purchase. It seems only those with gamestop codes can get it?
 

Dahbomb

Member
Guy didn't even use Doppelganger...

That's where the true Vergil swag is.
Platforming is a lot faster it seems since Vergil's methods of traversal and grabbing/pulling are much faster.
Since his pulls are linked to his Summoned swords, they are 0 frame moves.
Man, where was that Vergil in the main campaign?
He had to get mauled by Dante to be motivated enough to go Super Saiyan.

This Vergil would absolutely destroy current DmC Dante. Look at the impact of those attacks my god...
 

Dahbomb

Member
Ranking of Vergils in the DMC universe:

DMC3/UMVC3 Vergil >>> Super Saiyan Downfall Vergil >>>>> Nelo Angelo Vergil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DmC Vergin
 

Gbraga

Member
Yes, props to Ninja Theory for addressing a lot of fans concerns, Vergil's Downfall is not only "Vergil's story", but a series of experiments of things they want to fix for a possible sequel. No color-coded enemies is amazing, I don't even care about Vergil in Bloody Palace anymore, I'll just replay his campaign over and over again.

In fact, I'd want Dante in his campaign so I can get rid of color-coded enemies forever.

It would be cool to have
a Vergil mirror match though (I'm guessing his doppelganger is not the very same fight from the original game)
 
I have already said numerous times that DmC2 looks to pave the way for DMC3. Dante already has white hair, Vergil gets spiky gelled back hair and motivated for more power. Only thing missing are the actual devil forms.

I've said this plenty of times as well, mostly to people who thinks this game is a big departure to the series. I tell them relax, by the final frame of the game you can start playing DMC3... And it would be pretty logical why that games world looks dilapidated...or why no one is either there or flinches when a hideous tower rises from the middle of the city.
 

fi1ip

Member
Just finished Vergil's Downfall.

It is shorter than Dahbomb pointed out. Yes, five missions and one boss fight but missions are about 15 minutes long.

There are new trophies. At the start of the game you now chose between Devil May Cry and Vergil's Downfall.

As far as gameplay goes, I might need some time to adjust to Vergil. I am so used to kinda breaking the game by pulling enemies in the air. I need to find out an easy way to do that with Vergil. Also he doesn't have a double jump for some reason. The first playthrouh is incredibly painful just as it is in DmC because you have only few moves unlocked.

Overall it's ok, but nothing special in my opinion.

They need to make his version of bloody palace as this is just too short. For a DLC it is ok but there is a potential to make it much better by just slightly rearranging the existing BP (for example making all Vergil's moves work against colored enemies)
 

danmaku

Member
http://www.polygon.com/2013/1/30/39...-long-distance-romance-with-ninja-theory-that

The article is obviously painted in a positive light about Ninja Theory overcoming their weaknesses, but there's little doubt that Ninja Theory needed very very heavy handed management and advisement during the early and middle portions of development. There is no way that Ninja Theory could have made a game that played remotely as well as DmC without heavy input from Capcom.

It would be great to read a Gamasutra postmortem of DmC, unfortunately I don't think it's going to happen. But if NT get to make another game with Capcom, then... I don't know what to say. Tameen must be one hell of a snake oil salesman if he can still get work after putting out 4 bombas in a row.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
This looks way better than anything in vanilla Donte may Cry. Wow.

That's only because it took out half the shit Donte has to use (demon/angel weapons) thereby having pure combat.

But the combat still looks kinda shallow (to me) compared to Devil May Cry. Maybe if Tam patches the whole game to feel like Vorgol, Donte must Cry'd be a rental.
 

Korigama

Member
I've said this plenty of times as well, mostly to people who thinks this game is a big departure to the series. I tell them relax, by the final frame of the game you can start playing DMC3... And it would be pretty logical why that games world looks dilapidated...or why no one is either there or flinches when a hideous tower rises from the middle of the city.
It would still require retconning the things that I already pointed out in order to fit (in addition to the fact that DMC1 would still follow DMC3, which creates more problems because Sparda never defeated Mundus at any point and certainly wasn't revered as the Legendary Dark Knight). I really don't know why anyone would be so insistent on trying to link this game to the main series when it's already been established that it's supposed to be an alternate universe anyway (it wouldn't make much sense for Capcom to have backpedaled as they did and label it as such if they intended to have it flow into the other games).
 

Dave1988

Member
That's only because it took out half the shit Donte has to use (demon/angel weapons) thereby having pure combat.

But the combat still looks kinda shallow (to me) compared to Devil May Cry. Maybe if Tam patches the whole game to feel like Vorgol, Donte must Cry'd be a rental.

Going by the rate of how fast this game is bombing, I expect it as a PS+ freebie in a month or two. Might as well wait for that.
 

Chamber

love on your sleeve
How are people playing Downfall? I thought it wasn't out until later.

The DLC was up on the EU store for those who had the voucher code from their pre-order.

It would still require retconning the things that I already pointed out in order to fit (in addition to the fact that DMC1 would still follow DMC3, which creates more problems because Sparda never defeated Mundus at any point and certainly wasn't revered as the Legendary Dark Knight).

I really wish they had expanded on how Sparda was captured. The game just makes it seem like he caught a beat down from a couple of Hunter demons and then locked up for all eternity. Eva seems more important in this universe than Sparda.
 

Korigama

Member
I really wish they had expanded on how Sparda was captured. The game just makes it seem like he caught a beat down from a couple of Hunter demons and then locked up for all eternity. Eva seems more important in this universe than Sparda.
Definitely. In the original series, it was always the topic of Sparda that put the other demons in a bad mood, whereas in DmC's universe, they focus on Eva instead (still weird how each and every one of them refer to her as "the whore", which just seems to be edginess for the sake of edginess as part of a demons vs. angels thing, since nothing presented in the story suggested it having any weight).
 

Dahbomb

Member
That's only because it took out half the shit Donte has to use (demon/angel weapons) thereby having pure combat.

But the combat still looks kinda shallow (to me) compared to Devil May Cry. Maybe if Tam patches the whole game to feel like Vorgol, Donte must Cry'd be a rental.
Vergil in DmC is more complex than Vergil in DMC3. The guy in the video didn't use the full breadth of Vergil's moves and tools. Only real difference between Vergil of DMC3 and DmC Vergil is the difference in the enemy step which is easier in DmC but the overall tools are similar with a slight edge to DmC Dante.

So I don't know where you are getting the idea that it's shallow. Those red Judment Cuts he is doing are actually perfect cuts so he is timing the charges correctly.
 
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