If you want to argue that the broadstroke, big picture view of MGR's story is better, you have a case. But the manner in which it's conveyed absolutely matters, and dialog is a big part of that, and MGR falls on it's face.
I won't say that it doesn't matter, but I don't think it's significantly worse than most other games either. It just doesn't seem to me like it's a crippling factor either way.
Yes, it's awkwardly placed and delivered, hence it is not good. Relevant? Sure. Probably would have worked better as a written work though so we didn't have the whole cast of characters voicing every random thought in their head. Show, don't tell, all that.
Difference is that they mostly did it through dialogue with other characters in the codec, with characters arguing 2 different points of view, which is better. I only played Lords of Shadow, but a lot of it's philosophizing honestly was just naval contemplation that didn't lead anywhere while the one in Raiden actually was relevant for the most part.
Again, I assert that delivery (though it obviously does matter) is second to content. Take the Dark Knight Saga for example. How terrible is Batman's voice in that, how bad is some of the dialogue? But people can stomach it because the actual content (character development, etc) is actually good.
I certainly don't think so. Having character development, motivations, and world building aren't my sole criteria. Bridget Jones' Diary has all these things, I don't find it particularly compelling.
I never even heard of that, but one thing to realize is that what is personally compelling for them =/= strong narrative. There are plenty of things that I like that I can't necessarily argue have a strong narrative and plenty of things that I don't like that you could easily argue that do. One Piece, for example, is something I can't get into (though I read it every week to discuss with friends), yet it's difficult to argue that it's narrative isn't strong.
But from what I understand of what your telling me, a story could be full of bad characters, with no clear motivations, in a world with no rules, saying and doing nothing meaningful, but so long as the delivery of their inane actions is pithy and has a serious demeanor, it's good.
Of course it does. It's not good at it, but it exists. Dante absolutely develops over the course of the game (though only Dante), everyone's motivations are clear, and if anything they dwell too much on the nature of the world.
Again, I refer you to the post I just linked. Dante
doesn't really go through a character change, they just talk about how he changed when he really didn't (that is an actual example of telling, not showing, where as you were just describing is just raiden being verbose). Besides Dante's and Kat's, no one's motivations are clear either. Why does Vergil want to save the world or rule it or think humans are inferior? Cuz. Why does Mundus take over the human world or want an heir when he's immortal or why he can't just make another kid? Cuz. Why don't the demons drop the pretense and just take over? Cuz. And the world building is the worst part of DmC. The machinations of limbo are never explained, why they don't just trap dante without letting him leave, why nephilim are so powerful, why Bob Barbas is digitial, etc.
No, I am not convinced that anything is explained here. You cannot say that about Rising, everything is explained, almost over explained, from character motivations and development (from both raiden to minor characters like the Doktor) to everything that is happening in the plot. Everything is given a reason for being there and without really contradicting what happens in the plot. Could it have been said pithier and more convincingly? I suppose, but it was understandable and the content that it conveyed was very useful. I can't see how that isn't a million times more important.
Well this is the DmC thread and not the MGR thread, so I was trying to avoid derailing.
Eh. I guess. Vergil's downfall won't be out for a few weeks, so I don't think it's that bad that I'm filling the empty air with Rising talk (especially since it's partially on topic by comparing it to DmC and how the debate got started in the first place), but I can see your point. Perhaps we should move this discussion to the Rising spoiler thread?
Man you're bringing this crap here? You like shitty stories, that's the end of it. I cannot believe someone can take MGR's dump seriously.
edit: maybe I'm being harsh, but the plot in MGR is just flat out RETARDED.
Look,
I don't mind the idea that I can be wrong, but my problem is that no one seems to be able to provide an actual reason for why the content is bad. If it's as bad as you say, then the OT and spoiler thread should be filled with someone who pointed out all the holes in the plot or the lack of characterization, and none of that is happening from what I've seen. The closest I've seen is Shouta in the spoiler thread, and even he admitted that the content of the game is valid. Everyone else is just loling at the funny lines or (in some cases) groaning at the silliness without actually looking at the content. This is a terrible story that no one seems to find anything wrong with, outside of silly presentation, yet are convinced it's bad nonetheless. This is a discussion board. Why shouldn't it be discussed?
Mike is right that this is off topic, but yeah, it's kind of annoying me that people are shitting on the story without (in my eyes) actually paying attention to what it does. I don't care if they actually look at the content and find it lacking, but I don't see that happening.
I think that MGR's story eats every other hack'n'slash alive. Easily. Even with the last chapter of madness. Especially with that 