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DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
I saw a few videos of gameplay and the thing I'm liking the most about Vergil is that his dashes have more range and are faster, and his grab/pull mechanic is instant, much faster like Nero's Grab from DMC4 as opposed to DmCs Dante grab which has start-up and recovery. Vergil basically goes from enemy to enemy much faster than Dante, he also can cancel out of his demon - Yamato attacks much faster than Dante.
Vergil's phantom swords still build style meter too quick, but I noticed people are getting SSS ranks much less frequently since the patch update.
Anyway, it seems this should be a successful DLC in that it's both accessible in action but addresses some concerns hardcore fans had (i.e, color coded enemies, cutscene interruptions during gameplay). The combat also seems more arena based, with fewer bullshit in-between. Art design is gorgeous, loving the deep reds and blues. And the direction of the story seems far more in-line with DMC. In fact, I've only seen missions 1 through 4 but the story in Vergil's Downfall is a lot more engaging than DmC political / demon - behind the scenes stuff.
DMC stories work best when it's about family and character. Vergil's Downfall seems to focus on that. If you recall, the best story moments in DmC often involved Dante's character growth in relation to Vergil and Kat. It only became silly when Mundus started bribing and extorting presidents and shit while banging chicks, all while no fucks were given.
Will purchase when I have next break from med school.
There are cutscenes and gameplay uploads all over youtube. But from what I've seen, it's more about the character Vergil. I found it a lot better than DmC story. It seems more to the point, less bullshit and more about the character Vergil himself.
The DLC is a mixture of in-game cutscenes and motion comics. The motion comics however don't feel cheap and easy, it's a nice breath of fresh air and I'm glad they went that direction. There was actually one scene that kind of shocked me, and surprisingly not a single "fuck" was spoken. It's almost like Vergil's downfall had a different writer than the base game.
I agree with Dahbomb. Vergil in DmC has far more depth than Vergil in DMC3 did. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if people find playing Vergil in DmC to be more enjoyable than Dante in DmC. Vergil's attacks are more position based, and mode state altering. He also moves around from enemy to enemy a lot better than Dante. What Vergil lacks in weapon variety, he makes up in being a more enjoyable character to control. Vergil also seems to better deal with some of DmC's flaws. It's easier to adjust to demon pulling with Vergil due to targeting miscues because of how fast Vergil's pull mechanic works. With Dante, if you demon pull the wrong enemy, there is recovery and downtime. Not so with Vergil. Also, a lot of the annoying enemies like Witches get their shields taken down much faster due to Vergil's phantom swords and various states. The game seems more balanced too, since there is no demon dodge or end all be all DT, but I need to get my hands on it before I start talking about balance.. Of course this is just from what I see, but I've played enough action games to good a get idea of how things play out just from watching shit. The enemies in Vergil's DLC also seems far more agressive on base difficulty. But this could be due to the patch, I heard it increased the game's difficulty wholesale so that might be a reflection of that.
Vergil's phantom swords still build style meter too quick, but I noticed people are getting SSS ranks much less frequently since the patch update.
Anyway, it seems this should be a successful DLC in that it's both accessible in action but addresses some concerns hardcore fans had (i.e, color coded enemies, cutscene interruptions during gameplay). The combat also seems more arena based, with fewer bullshit in-between. Art design is gorgeous, loving the deep reds and blues. And the direction of the story seems far more in-line with DMC. In fact, I've only seen missions 1 through 4 but the story in Vergil's Downfall is a lot more engaging than DmC political / demon - behind the scenes stuff.
DMC stories work best when it's about family and character. Vergil's Downfall seems to focus on that. If you recall, the best story moments in DmC often involved Dante's character growth in relation to Vergil and Kat. It only became silly when Mundus started bribing and extorting presidents and shit while banging chicks, all while no fucks were given.
Will purchase when I have next break from med school.
There are cutscenes and gameplay uploads all over youtube. But from what I've seen, it's more about the character Vergil. I found it a lot better than DmC story. It seems more to the point, less bullshit and more about the character Vergil himself.
The DLC is a mixture of in-game cutscenes and motion comics. The motion comics however don't feel cheap and easy, it's a nice breath of fresh air and I'm glad they went that direction. There was actually one scene that kind of shocked me, and surprisingly not a single "fuck" was spoken. It's almost like Vergil's downfall had a different writer than the base game.
I agree with Dahbomb. Vergil in DmC has far more depth than Vergil in DMC3 did. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if people find playing Vergil in DmC to be more enjoyable than Dante in DmC. Vergil's attacks are more position based, and mode state altering. He also moves around from enemy to enemy a lot better than Dante. What Vergil lacks in weapon variety, he makes up in being a more enjoyable character to control. Vergil also seems to better deal with some of DmC's flaws. It's easier to adjust to demon pulling with Vergil due to targeting miscues because of how fast Vergil's pull mechanic works. With Dante, if you demon pull the wrong enemy, there is recovery and downtime. Not so with Vergil. Also, a lot of the annoying enemies like Witches get their shields taken down much faster due to Vergil's phantom swords and various states. The game seems more balanced too, since there is no demon dodge or end all be all DT, but I need to get my hands on it before I start talking about balance.. Of course this is just from what I see, but I've played enough action games to good a get idea of how things play out just from watching shit. The enemies in Vergil's DLC also seems far more agressive on base difficulty. But this could be due to the patch, I heard it increased the game's difficulty wholesale so that might be a reflection of that.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Sorry for the double post.
Anyway, does campaign based DLC get their own threads?
Anyway, does campaign based DLC get their own threads?
Vergil falls down.
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
But he gets back up again.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
So much hate for this game... Its my second favorite after DMC3! Fuck the hater, new Dante rocks!
Enemies aren't more aggressive, they just do more damage.
It's impossible to comment on Vergil's balance vs the rest of the game at this point in time. He doesn't have to deal with color coated enemies or Dreamrunners so it's hard to say how he would stack up there. And Vergil hits hard and fast, he can kill enemies faster than Dante at times if Dante doesn't have demon dodge or DT. There isn't anything in the DLC that will pose a significant threat to a decked out Vergil.
I will agree that the DLC is more in line with a DMC game. It's hard to come up with faults against it... it just leaves you wanting more. More missions, more moves, weapons, more Vergil etc.
It's impossible to comment on Vergil's balance vs the rest of the game at this point in time. He doesn't have to deal with color coated enemies or Dreamrunners so it's hard to say how he would stack up there. And Vergil hits hard and fast, he can kill enemies faster than Dante at times if Dante doesn't have demon dodge or DT. There isn't anything in the DLC that will pose a significant threat to a decked out Vergil.
I will agree that the DLC is more in line with a DMC game. It's hard to come up with faults against it... it just leaves you wanting more. More missions, more moves, weapons, more Vergil etc.
I havent watched more than a few seconds of the first mission as to not spoil myself so i cant comment on the rest, but I agree with this.
When I heard motion comic I was thinking like really shitty motion comics like that one Motorstorm game, but the cutscenes in Vergil's Downfall look damn nice.
The title DmC: Devil May Cry would be less horrible if they keep adding subtitles, it would be like when you have a song named the same as the album, so we'd have
DmC: Devil May Cry
DmC: Vergil's Downfall
DmC: ????
That way Devil May Cry wouldn't be as redundant, it'd be the name of that story that takes place in the DmC storyline.
DmC: Devil May Cry
DmC: Vergil's Downfall
DmC: ????
That way Devil May Cry wouldn't be as redundant, it'd be the name of that story that takes place in the DmC storyline.
Wolf Akela
Member
I just beat the game. I'm assuming DMC3 Dante is not unlockable?
Takamura-San
Member
Got and finished the game in one weekend.
This is a fantastic game. From what I gather here it seems that people didn't like Vergil in vanilla.
I cannot disagree more, I liked him and understand his turn at the end.
Cannot wait for DmC2.
This is a fantastic game. From what I gather here it seems that people didn't like Vergil in vanilla.
I cannot disagree more, I liked him and understand his turn at the end.
Cannot wait for DmC2.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Do we have a date/price (EU) for Vergils downfall? I noticed that trophy list has been updated with the DLC trophies.
toastyToast
Member
Napalm_Frank
Member
Thanks bro.
To be perfectly honest, I thought this game was pretty mediocre.
I'm torn on whether or not the game being titled "Devil May Cry" helped or hurt the game. On one hand, if it wasn't named DmC then it wouldn't have been compared to the other DMCs in that regard - which probably would have helped the game.
On the other hand, I think people would have been more critical of the game's story had they not been comparing it to the other DMCs as well. Because DmC's story is loaded with a ton of issues and basically falls apart the moment you start thinking.
I'm torn on whether or not the game being titled "Devil May Cry" helped or hurt the game. On one hand, if it wasn't named DmC then it wouldn't have been compared to the other DMCs in that regard - which probably would have helped the game.
On the other hand, I think people would have been more critical of the game's story had they not been comparing it to the other DMCs as well. Because DmC's story is loaded with a ton of issues and basically falls apart the moment you start thinking.
After seeing the hammering it got from fans, it probably would've been better to name it something else. But like I said in the another thread, I hope Capcom will learn from this. The main thing that doomed DmC was announcing it extremely early when only 4-5 months of work was done. After the reveal, the fans were left fuming for 8-9 months untill we saw the game in a presentable form, and by then the damage was already done. In retrospect, it seemed like a last dingbat move by Inafune. That reveal, which was quick and too aggressive, on top of that blackout period pretty much defined the game before it had a chance to prove itself. Not to mention that NT and Antoniades in particular became this lightning rod and the 'face' of the game by fans, which clearly wasn't the intent.
It had this cloud over its head, and it was never gonna get a fair chance because of it. I do think it was a good game, and great start for some further adventures (OPEN WORLD DMC), but I don't see that happening now. With that said, it was Capcom's best reviewed game in a long time and they did have a good experience with NT, so who knows what could happen.
From the reveal trailer until roughly now you could look at the whole DmC "thing" and write a book on what not to do in regards to PR for a video game. I do think in the future Ninja Theory should put a gag order on Tameem (which might be why he shut down his Twitter account).
I also think DmC is a good example of why publishers should maybe look into their markets and try to ascertain any interest in a certain product. There's a good case to be made that Capcom was trying to sell something very few wanted in the first place, regardless of the quality of the game. Even before the reboot was officially announced and the simple rumors of a DMC reboot were floating around people even then were saying there was no reason to reboot the franchise.
I also think DmC is a good example of why publishers should maybe look into their markets and try to ascertain any interest in a certain product. There's a good case to be made that Capcom was trying to sell something very few wanted in the first place, regardless of the quality of the game. Even before the reboot was officially announced and the simple rumors of a DMC reboot were floating around people even then were saying there was no reason to reboot the franchise.
He shut his twitter down because he was constantly getting harassed by people who continue to rub this game in his face. I recall some of the GFAQs and CU people would hammer his twitter with racial, ethnic, and homophobic slurs and brag about it. Which is just repulsive. People want to focus on NT and Capcom for this, but the fans have been particularly nasty about it. Not everyone, of course, but enough to get outsiders and the media to believe they're bitter.
I'm pretty embarrassed by this whole thing, because this fan base should better than this.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Video games?! Nahh...
I wish people were but yeah they're not. Game was dope, the end.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Any PC deals happening on this at the moment? I finally have my PC set up after moving and I'd like to hop on as soon as possible.
Yeah, people did take it too far. But, to a very small degree, he had a little bit of it coming. The dude seems like a pompous dink in general.
But honestly there were a lot of DMC fans who didn't like the new game who had a lot of very sane and well thought out complaints with the title. They just got overshadowed by the whiny blowhards who complained about the hair.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I think Gaf user Raitosaito is selling DmC keys for a cheap $20something - check the buy/sell/trade thread. Good folks. Also another guy, Dunderhassan.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Honestly, comparing the two is a little hard because gameplay wise they're actually somewhat different beasts. The only input I have here is that I actually think MGR's story is a bit more solid than DmCs.
(I could write way too much about all of the issues with the game's story and it's honestly the worst part of DmC imo)
I don't really agree with that. People are making him out to be some major scam artist or something, which is not true. Also, I feel a lot of his quotes and sentiments were distorted and turned into these Anti-DmC talking points. The "I don't care" quote in particular was a comment on retaining artistic integrity. Could he have said it better? Sure, but I get what what he meant by it.
Also, you do have to admit there was a substantial number of comments about his hair when it was first revealed, right?
That's because back when the reveal trailer was shown thats all there really was to talk about since there was no gameplay or anything else to go on. Once that started getting shown most people moved away from that and started to wonder if the gameplay would hold up.
My early issue wasn't really that his hair color was different, I immediately on was a bit more concerned about how oddly similar reveal Dante looked to Tameem himself and how he (just going off of that reveal trailer) acted nothing like his old self. And considering Tameem was in charge of writing and all of that I was wondering if he was pretty much just going to Mary Sue himself into the game.
It's not a straight apples-to-apples comparison, no, but that doesn't preclude being able to rate them by preference. MGR is fun and all, but it feels ludicrously cheap a lot of the time. DmC was stupid easy, but I never felt it was particularly unfair.
MGR's story is shit, though. DmC's isn't great, but MGR's is the ham-fisted philosophizing of MGS crossed with Platinum's incomprehensible gibberish. Plus Raiden's VA is absolutely terrible in his delivery.
I guess we'll disagree with that
I thought Raiden's VA was pretty respectable, while I thought DmC's VA in general was pretty poor (well, specifically Dante, Mundus, and Lillith). And yeah, MGR's story is a lot of philosophizing and all of that, but then there's DmC's story which acts like the gamer is an idiot who can't comprehend any sort of parallel without spelling it out for you. I'll take my ham fisted Metal Gear story versus DmC's story that thinks its clever for doing something your average episode of the Daily Show does.
(i know I'm probably harder on DmC's story than most people, but poorly thought out stories really just set off a huge peeve with me)
I guess we'll disagree with that
I thought Raiden's VA was pretty respectable, while I thought DmC's VA in general was pretty poor (well, specifically Dante, Mundus, and Lillith). And yeah, MGR's story is a lot of philosophizing and all of that, but then there's DmC's story which acts like the gamer is an idiot who can't comprehend any sort of parallel without spelling it out for you.
Yeah, DmC's story was pretty poor, but it was at least coherent and comprehensible. No Vanilla Ice references though : (
That ninja rap reference was fantastic.
I had a pretty decent time following both stories honestly. (By Metal Gear standards, MGR is pretty straight forward).
Where DmC fell apart for me was in regards to a lot of the basic aspects of the plot & game's universe. Like how the rules of Limbo are only enforced when it's convenient to the plot or how Mundus is apparently the most incompetent villain in the world.
The other reason I'm a little harder on DmC than MGR was also because Ninja Theory was pretty much brought in to improve DMC's story. Getting a story that's really no better than the other games (except DMC2, obviously) was a bigger knock against the game for me.
I had a pretty decent time following both stories honestly. (By Metal Gear standards, MGR is pretty straight forward).
Where DmC fell apart for me was in regards to a lot of the basic aspects of the plot & game's universe. Like how the rules of Limbo are only enforced when it's convenient to the plot or how Mundus is apparently the most incompetent villain in the world.
The other reason I'm a little harder on DmC than MGR was also because Ninja Theory was pretty much brought in to improve DMC's story. Getting a story that's really no better than the other games (except DMC2, obviously) was a bigger knock against the game for me.
MGR's story was worse than DmC's but it had some entertaining moments to it that you can at least rewatch occasionally. DmC failed to even have some entertaining, pop corn moments. Best I can think of is the Fuck You scene but more people hate it than like it.
Although I dug the story and characterization in the Downfall DLC. This pretty much confirms the fact that DMC stories only work in a simpler fashion with more focus on characters than complex plotline.
Although I dug the story and characterization in the Downfall DLC. This pretty much confirms the fact that DMC stories only work in a simpler fashion with more focus on characters than complex plotline.
Yeah, DMC stories in my opinion work a lot better when there isn't much of a pretense on seriousness and things are kept at a Saturday morning cartoon level of complexity. The whole basis of the entire thing is just a bit too outlandish to make deep or 'serious' if you ask me.
I dunno, could some of you guys elaborate why you thought MGR's story was bad? I generally thought it was pretty good. (Edit, and I honestly thought DmC's story was one of the worst stories I've seen in a good while)
I dunno, could some of you guys elaborate why you thought MGR's story was bad? I generally thought it was pretty good. (Edit, and I honestly thought DmC's story was one of the worst stories I've seen in a good while)
While the fans did their part to drag the game down, I think that Capcom was fully aware of that and predicted that they were going to lose some sales in the process. The main problem, however, is that they designed the game for an audience that doesn't exist, i.e. teenagers that want a classic DMC game, but a bit easier and with a new coat of western paint.
I contest this. It was way sillier, but it sure as fuck had a stronger narrative structure than DmC. I can't say anything about the downfall story though, I haven't seen it.
I am playing this game very differently I think. Two missions again tonight and it was awesome - I suck at it but when I accidentily pull off a great move I fill like a boss - plus the game really get's going when there are encounters and when you finish the last enemy.
I adore Ninja Theory, I just wish they have more success.
I adore Ninja Theory, I just wish they have more success.
An open world DMC with Ninja Theory!? What makes you think they can pull it off? The 3 games they made this gen are extremely linear and still have bad frame rate(2 out of 3). For all the white knighting you did for the game and how NT will elevate the franchise at the end it's just another bog standard DMC like DMC4 was and it reviewed like one too, by that I mean very safe nothing really standing out.
If NT can actually do something fresh with the franchise like you said an open world type game I'd definitely be down for that even if it's 30fps and lacking depth. I want the franchise to evolve but their history shows that NT can't do that and I don't know if I really want DMC to be used again as a teaching tool for them. Capcom really came out as the unsung hero here, can't imagine how bad it could have been had NT got free rein.
Actually, it can't.
I was just discussing with a friend yesterday how this line is going to produce the misconception that everything in MGR is explained away with nanomachines, just because it's so memorable, but in actuality, that's not true. The majority of the explanations for whats happening in MGR is cybernetics and how society at large is reacting to them. But the line's funny, so it's all you hear.
Look, I get it. MGR is over the top. That line was hilarious. The final boss in general is hilarious. And just because of how in your face some of the silly elements are, that's what most people are going to come out of the game remembering.
But those are surface elements. This is no different from someone watching the "fuck you!" video and assuming that composes the entirety of DmC Dante's character. I'm not even arguing that you need to agree with me that the story is good, but no one seems to be actually paying attention to what Rising's story does and just loling at the funny bits like children distracted by someone waving a stuffed monkey on the side. That is a disservice to the people that worked on it and yourself, especially when you try to argue that DmC, whose story that actually is narratively braindead, is better.
MGR's story is more complicated -- that's granted-- but that doesn't make it better. Personally I don't think either story is particularly great, but I do think DmC is somewhat less bad. Both reek of terribad tryhard attempts at being meaningful, but it saturates every facet of MGR's story while DmC seemed largely limited to the major bulletpoints of the plot elements.
Both are fun games though, so in the end I don't really care too deeply.
Both are fun games though, so in the end I don't really care too deeply.
That was hardly even a Doppelganger combo. This guy needs to do some combos in training mode because he is killing enemies way too fast with those combos.
Well, to claim that, you'd have to explain what makes mgr's a failure.
What makes dmc's a failure is an utter lack of character development, unclear motivations for characters, a lack of worldbuilding that makes all the plot events come off as arbitrary and really boring delivery.
Mgr provides all those things. Almost everything that happens is explained in a way that (as far as I know) works in the mg universes context. What it potentially messes up on is the tone, and I say maybe because the silliness was intentional and doesn't really contradict anything in the series. It just seems to distract the layman from what is actually happening within the story.
So if you see something mgr truly messes up on narratively, I'm all ears. For a story everyone seems to agree is so bad, few seem to be able to explain why.
What makes dmc's a failure is an utter lack of character development, unclear motivations for characters, a lack of worldbuilding that makes all the plot events come off as arbitrary and really boring delivery.
Mgr provides all those things. Almost everything that happens is explained in a way that (as far as I know) works in the mg universes context. What it potentially messes up on is the tone, and I say maybe because the silliness was intentional and doesn't really contradict anything in the series. It just seems to distract the layman from what is actually happening within the story.
So if you see something mgr truly messes up on narratively, I'm all ears. For a story everyone seems to agree is so bad, few seem to be able to explain why.
I never said it was a failure.
The dialog is terrible. The endless philosophizing is terrible. Raiden's delivery is terrible (most everyone else is pretty solid enough though). The unrelenting silliness absolutely detracts from the whole affair. Yes, it has character development, motivations, and world building (As did DmC) that doesn't make it good.
You liked MGR's story more. I didn't. The world spins on.
You basically did, by implying it wasn't good. Unless you mean failure in a different sort of way, but I'm talking about having a good narrative structure.
Subjective, and I don't necessarily disagree, but this kind of complaint always comes up when discussing most game stories, and I always find it odd. The delivery of and form of dialogue usually doesn't need to be great (though it can obviously help/hurt the experience). It's the content that truly matters. It's nice that some things can be said more in a more pithy way or whatever, but it's more important that they're said at all.
Explain. It's pretty relevant to Raiden's character arc. As I said above the dialogue, it is awkward how it's placed and spoken, but since this is a metal gear game and considering Raiden's situation, I'd say it's appropriate.
You have a very strange definition of what makes a story good then.
No, it doesn't. Here is a more elaborate explanation.
I'm not denying you your right to an opinion, but this is a discussion board. Discuss or spin on.
Edit: This last line comes off more bitter than I intend. I'm sleepy and am somewhat passionate about story telling, obviously. I don't mean to tell you to fuck off or anything by that last line, but I do mean that this is a discussion board, so 'you have your opinion and I have mine" really means nothing here. Obviously we both have our own opinions, but if your not going to discuss it on a discussion board, then what is the point of being here?
I guess I would delineate between a failed story as one that makes no sense (I.e. Revenge of the Fallen) versus one that's simply bad.
If you want to argue that the broadstroke, big picture view of MGR's story is better, you have a case. But the manner in which it's conveyed absolutely matters, and dialog is a big part of that, and MGR falls on it's face.
Yes, it's awkwardly placed and delivered, hence it is not good. Relevant? Sure. Probably would have worked better as a written work though so we didn't have the whole cast of characters voicing every random thought in their head. Show, don't tell, all that.
I certainly don't think so. Having character development, motivations, and world building aren't my sole criteria. Bridget Jones' Diary has all these things, I don't find it particularly compelling.
Of course it does. It's not good at it, but it exists. Dante absolutely develops over the course of the game (though only Dante), everyone's motivations are clear, and if anything they dwell too much on the nature of the world.
Well this is the DmC thread and not the MGR thread, so I was trying to avoid derailing.
I do 99% of my posting on my phone.
It's quite laborious, so I try and keep things as short as possible : )
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