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DmC |OT| No, F*ck You!
- Thread starter Goon Boon
- Start date
KingItachi
Member
I don't agree with you on the visuals but I do agree about the mechanics.
20 but missions after #14 are rather short.
My final completion time was 8 hours and change.
SlasherJPC
Banned
What don't you like about them visually? I'm curious to hear since I myself find them pretty visually appealing as well.
Knux-Future
Banned
8 hours sounds good to me...probably a bit longer for me but still that's right in my wheelhouse
Excellent. 8 hours sounds perfect to me for this kind of game. Can't wait for Tuesday.
Halfway through Sons of Sparda. Man, am I horrible at this.
In certain fights, I can handle 7-10 mobs (half of them being either enraged or in the middle of a soft-uninterruptable attack sequence) without getting hit and pretty much keeping around S or SS (and I still rarely use Demon Dodge trick, I do not care what the number at the right side shows if that tactic is simply broken
). Then, in the next fight, I get cocky and got hit multiple times, or die a few times. Bah.
It does not help that I am coming from Bayonetta and dodge offset - I mean literally, I played that game a day before I got DmC Time to sleep, maybe some rest will help me
Also, when Osiris works, it is amazing. Those airdash+multiple attack (the air B attack) combos... then weapon switch back to scythe, grab some more, Y,Y, then switch back to Osiris and move around with that air B again...rinse and repeat. Gawdlike.
In certain fights, I can handle 7-10 mobs (half of them being either enraged or in the middle of a soft-uninterruptable attack sequence) without getting hit and pretty much keeping around S or SS (and I still rarely use Demon Dodge trick, I do not care what the number at the right side shows if that tactic is simply broken
). Then, in the next fight, I get cocky and got hit multiple times, or die a few times. Bah.It does not help that I am coming from Bayonetta and dodge offset - I mean literally, I played that game a day before I got DmC
Time to sleep, maybe some rest will help me Also, when Osiris works, it is amazing. Those airdash+multiple attack (the air B attack) combos... then weapon switch back to scythe, grab some more, Y,Y, then switch back to Osiris and move around with that air B again...rinse and repeat. Gawdlike.
KingItachi
Member
We just differ I see nothing spectacular about the visuals and I hate the unreal engine.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Matador needs to be a secret boss in the next DMC.
MuddyDonut
Member
Dodge Offset makes sense in Bayonetta due to longer combos and the payoff of a wicked weave. I don't think it's really necessary in DMC.
KingItachi
Member
This game ended up how I expected it to glad I did not waste my money on it.
SlasherJPC
Banned
Gotcha. I don't care for the unreal engine much myself, but I thought from that thought they used it to look better then most imo.
BeautifulMemory
Member
arkham city made me go :0
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Recently picked up the PC version on Steam Sale, shit looked pretty godlike, at 60fps, too. DmC should look REALLY nice on PC.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Alright here we go. My initial review of DmC after beating the game on Nephilim. SPOILERS are guaranteed so stop reading now if you care for that stuff.
I can't believe I have finally done it. I HAVE PLAYED AND FINISHED A DEVIL MAY CRY GAME MADE BY NINJA THEORY! Myself from 5 years ago would've laughed at the current me but whatever... times change. Still though it all feels so surreal now to have the game behind me.
Before I start with the review I will get this out of the way: I liked DmC. I didn't love it and I didn't hate it either. I think it's the best game that NT has put out easily and it's better than middling action games like NG3 and RE6. It's an above average, good action game... at the bare minimum it is worth your rental money. The game is also well paced unlike some other games (*cough* DS2 *cough*). With that said I don't think DmC is as good as the previous DMC games, it falls just short of them. It's closest to DMC4 and I would say adding the sum of the parts of both games, DmC would be equivalent to DMC4 but it depends on what you value more. This will be explained a bit later but I am just putting that out there.
Artstyle: I don't mind the artstyle of the game much anymore... I guess I have gotten used to it. Whether you like the artstyle or not, it's very obvious that a lot of effort was put into it. DmC has more variety in its environments and locales than any other DMC game. You constantly see new areas in just about every new mission in the game. Some are of course better than others but the best ones are really nice eye candy. Of course this comes at the expense of sacrificing the gothic atmosphere of previous DMC games mainly the original DMC game but overall the artstyle present in the game works well with the overall style and themes of the game. I personally REALLY liked a couple of the later levels most specifically the Furnace of Soul.
Platforming and Level Design: The platforming was decent for about the first 8 missions... after that it becomes very repetitive and almost mind numbing. There aren't a lot of different ways the game mixes up the formula... it's just the same old "check to see which color of grapple to use" "use the correct stance" and repeat. It's a good way to break up the action but I felt the game could've used some more elements to its platforming. Maybe ways they could've incorporated the Angel teleport into the platforming or put in wall running. It isn't challenging either so it's not like you are mentally engaged or your skills are tested much. The overall level design was surprisingly not that linear there was usually a lot more to the areas than it appeared. That said the game still had it's fair share of fairly linear areas where you just hooked from platform to platform while traversing pretty environments. There are more hidden stuff in this game than the other DMC games so that will keep the people who like to collect stuff busy for a while. There are a ton of secret missions too this time around and I only found like 5 myself. I would also add that people who hate puzzles will love to know that there is at most only 1 puzzle in the entire game and that's like in mission#18, which is fairly easy to figure out.
Pacing: I felt the overall pacing was solid and certainly better than quite a few other games I have played. I will say that I enjoyed the first half of the game more than the second half particularly the first 14 missions (up until the Club level). After that I felt the quality dropped not just in the game play variety but in the story/cutscenes as well. Certainly the game finishes on a weak note yet starts on a high note. The difference in quality is NOT that much but it is a bit jarring near the end. I think the reason for this is that the game gives you a majority of the tools in the first half of the game so in the second half you don't get nearly as much stuff. Not a big complaint at all but certainly something that you feel as you play along. There was only one level where there was minimal backtracking... overall there is no retreading or repeating of missions so that is very good for the game. All the 8 hours I played in the game was genuine video game content. (No joke intended on "genuine")
Characters, Story and Cutscenes: This was one element where I expected NT to mop the floor with the previous games. The DMC series was never known for its high brow story or characters... it was all very straightforward and at time one dimensional. DmC however has a very ho-hum story that has a good premise starting off but wanes off towards the end. It doesn't live up to it's own ambition. The character of Dante is a bit more fleshed out and is more likeable than the PR/media suggests but the rest of the characters are as one dimension as ever. There are no real "epic" or interesting moments in the game, the story just treads along and then just ends with no real climax or build up. The cutscenes were not exciting or fun... there was no cutscene in the game that got me saying "HELL YEA!!! THAT WAS AWESOME!!!" There was no Dante skydiving from the side of a tower, no Vergil slicing up Beowulf in multiple pieces and uppercutting him to the ceiling, no Dante juggling a motorbike in mid air with just his hand guns etc. After witnessing the story you really can't make the excuse that this is a "gritty" or more realistic take on the canon, it's still very cheesy and game like. So yeah color me disappointed on this front, I expected more even if I expected something different I felt I was ultimately bored of the cutscenes and have no motivation to see them again on successive walkthroughs. I felt that both Heavenly Sword and Enslaved delivered a better narrative experience as well as better characters. I also felt that the voice acting wasn't up to snuff with what is expected of NT.
Soundtrack: The soundtrack was a hit or miss for me mostly a miss. I will say that ever since DMC3 I have NOT been a fan of this type of music for the DMC series. I have always preferred DMC1's style of music. I think there is a decent amount of tracks in the OST and the ambient tracks are quite nice but the music used for the bosses was really mediocre. Of course music is extremely subjective and some people will love this type of music so you are better off listening to the soundtrack online.
Game play/Combat: This is the fucking shit right here. Ignore what I have said before if you want "real talk". Overall I felt that the combat of DmC was its strongest point and I know many people did not expect this. I think the artstyle, platforming, soundtrack, visuals and story are OK to good at best but the game play is something that transcends better than good even into great territory. I certainly had the most fun fighting hordes of enemies and crowd controlling them with my tools. While the game play and combat is not up to snuff with previous DMC games, even being just a tier below those games makes the game play of this game very solid. There are quite a few mechanics in the game that promote skillful play like perfect releases, parry, enemy step, on the fly weapon swaps. Please note that the style ranking and mission ranking system is still borked to hell but the best way to extract enjoyment out of the game is to just try to style on enemies the best you can and disregard the SSSs on the side and after missions. You will have fun experimenting with weapon moves and attributes against different enemies. With all the tools available to you on the fly sometimes you get lost in the heat of the battle and don't know what to use! The AI of the enemies leave something to be desired and a lot of the enemies have really generic designs. Some of the later enemies are good though but one enemy stands tall among the rest.... Drakavac. Drakavac should be x-copied and put in the other DMC games, he's that good. Whenever a Drakavac comes up I have genuine fun fighting him. Note that he isn't super hard or challenging but he engages you and he doesn't fall for the same bull shit tactics that other enemies fall to. He doesn't get grappled easily, you can't shoot him, your combos have to be tight or he will parry you even in the air and even Devil Trigger doesn't affect him completely. He's fast and deceptive... fighting a couple of them along with other slightly advance enemies like Rage, Tyrants, Butcher or Witch is an exciting experience. It's sort of disappointing that some of the enemies in the Vergil DLC didn't make it into the game because that would've bolstered the enemy variety of the game by a lot. As it stands only a few enemies provide an engaging combat experience, the rest are mostly fodder enemies or gimmick style enemies.
Speaking of gimmicks... this game has a lot. Some are good gimmicks like using the Shotgun to down Harpies or using Round Trip to lock a Witch in place while breaking its shield. What I don't like are the color coated enemies because they prevent you from styling on them. You can only use set weapons constricting creativity in the game which goes against the pillars of this type of game. Another thing I don't really like as a whole are the bosses... 5 out of the 6 bosses are just humongous boss types with very obvious attack patterns and the only humanoid boss in the game fails to deliver a challenging fight. I don't think I died once on any boss and from the looks of things, bosses don't really spike in difficulty in the other modes. A lot of the bosses have really obvious gimmicks to beat them and once you figure out the gimmicks it's just a "going through the motions" process of depleting their lifebars. Because of this you can't really style on bosses because by the time you start your combo it will be interrupted by some cinematic.
As far as weapon selection goes, I felt that only 2 weapons really felt unique to the game the rest felt really generic. The Aquila is a great weapon and so is the Kablooey which is an explosive needle gun... both weapons are going to be staple for combo exhibition. The good thing about the weapons is that they all have some usage and their moves usually have good utility in the game. Even the firearms are useful like the Shotgun which is a great fodder enemy crowd controller. Speaking of crowd control... this game is ALL about the crowd control much more than previous DMC games. You have so many tools to control crowds or position them around. The Aquila is a prime example of this as it can lock enemies in position, launch multiple enemies or bring multiples up to Dante. The Eryx ground slam is also useful for clearing out packs as are moves like Tremor, Drive, Ricoshot and Fireworks. And your crowd control tactics have to be up to snuff in this game or you will get worked in the harder difficulties. Certainly the regular enemies provide a stronger challenge than bosses in the harder difficulties.
The combo mechanics are easily better than your average action game as that is the big point of this game to begin with. While the mechanics are of less quality than in previous games (like for example enemy step is less useful and resets enemy downward momentum), I fell that there is enough juice in the game to please combo fans for quite a time. The combo exhibition isn't going to require godlike execution like in previous games and the skill ceiling certainly has been lowered but that ceiling is still out of reach for most gamers and thus worth pursuing if you enjoy this type of game. I felt that the game could've been a lot better with lock on. So much of the game revolves around isolating a particular type of enemy and going ham on it that not being able to lock on really creates issues. It becomes a big problem when you face dual Rage enemies both of which are different colored or when you are fighting a pair of Drakavak and they are are teleporting all over the place.
There is so much more I can talk about the game play but for the purposes of the review I will have to cut it short. I enjoyed the game play, I think it has depth, I think the game will have some very nice combo swag videos but the skill ceiling is much lower than previous games and the mechanics aren't nearly as polished. For a majority of players this will not matter but for the small percentage of people who live for pushing their abilities to the maximum they will of course be disappointed and they do not need to read this review to figure it out anyway.
TLR Bullet points please:
PROS:
*Solid combat system with great potential for combo exhibition even if it's a tier below the previous DMC games
*Diverse and impressive looking environments throughout the game. A lot of work was put in the art of the game
*Lots of hidden items, secret missions and higher difficulties to explore in the game
*Crazy combination of enemies including Drakavak that force you to get creative with your toolset
*Good pacing and good length for an action game. 8 hours with no repetition or backtracking.
*Vergil's cock is bigger than Dante's.
CONS:
*Soundtrack is a hit or miss, mostly a miss especially for bosses
*Bosses are extremely underwhelming and fail to provide an engaging combat experience
*Story and characters ended up being disappointing. NT failed to create something riveting out of the creative liberties they took with the series
*Platforming gets repetitive and mind numbing towards the end. There are only so many ways you can use the same formula
*No legendary cutscenes in the game that will be talked about for years... except for a couple of bad ones
8/10
I can't believe I have finally done it. I HAVE PLAYED AND FINISHED A DEVIL MAY CRY GAME MADE BY NINJA THEORY! Myself from 5 years ago would've laughed at the current me but whatever... times change. Still though it all feels so surreal now to have the game behind me.
Before I start with the review I will get this out of the way: I liked DmC. I didn't love it and I didn't hate it either. I think it's the best game that NT has put out easily and it's better than middling action games like NG3 and RE6. It's an above average, good action game... at the bare minimum it is worth your rental money. The game is also well paced unlike some other games (*cough* DS2 *cough*). With that said I don't think DmC is as good as the previous DMC games, it falls just short of them. It's closest to DMC4 and I would say adding the sum of the parts of both games, DmC would be equivalent to DMC4 but it depends on what you value more. This will be explained a bit later but I am just putting that out there.
Artstyle: I don't mind the artstyle of the game much anymore... I guess I have gotten used to it. Whether you like the artstyle or not, it's very obvious that a lot of effort was put into it. DmC has more variety in its environments and locales than any other DMC game. You constantly see new areas in just about every new mission in the game. Some are of course better than others but the best ones are really nice eye candy. Of course this comes at the expense of sacrificing the gothic atmosphere of previous DMC games mainly the original DMC game but overall the artstyle present in the game works well with the overall style and themes of the game. I personally REALLY liked a couple of the later levels most specifically the Furnace of Soul.
Platforming and Level Design: The platforming was decent for about the first 8 missions... after that it becomes very repetitive and almost mind numbing. There aren't a lot of different ways the game mixes up the formula... it's just the same old "check to see which color of grapple to use" "use the correct stance" and repeat. It's a good way to break up the action but I felt the game could've used some more elements to its platforming. Maybe ways they could've incorporated the Angel teleport into the platforming or put in wall running. It isn't challenging either so it's not like you are mentally engaged or your skills are tested much. The overall level design was surprisingly not that linear there was usually a lot more to the areas than it appeared. That said the game still had it's fair share of fairly linear areas where you just hooked from platform to platform while traversing pretty environments. There are more hidden stuff in this game than the other DMC games so that will keep the people who like to collect stuff busy for a while. There are a ton of secret missions too this time around and I only found like 5 myself. I would also add that people who hate puzzles will love to know that there is at most only 1 puzzle in the entire game and that's like in mission#18, which is fairly easy to figure out.
Pacing: I felt the overall pacing was solid and certainly better than quite a few other games I have played. I will say that I enjoyed the first half of the game more than the second half particularly the first 14 missions (up until the Club level). After that I felt the quality dropped not just in the game play variety but in the story/cutscenes as well. Certainly the game finishes on a weak note yet starts on a high note. The difference in quality is NOT that much but it is a bit jarring near the end. I think the reason for this is that the game gives you a majority of the tools in the first half of the game so in the second half you don't get nearly as much stuff. Not a big complaint at all but certainly something that you feel as you play along. There was only one level where there was minimal backtracking... overall there is no retreading or repeating of missions so that is very good for the game. All the 8 hours I played in the game was genuine video game content. (No joke intended on "genuine")
Characters, Story and Cutscenes: This was one element where I expected NT to mop the floor with the previous games. The DMC series was never known for its high brow story or characters... it was all very straightforward and at time one dimensional. DmC however has a very ho-hum story that has a good premise starting off but wanes off towards the end. It doesn't live up to it's own ambition. The character of Dante is a bit more fleshed out and is more likeable than the PR/media suggests but the rest of the characters are as one dimension as ever. There are no real "epic" or interesting moments in the game, the story just treads along and then just ends with no real climax or build up. The cutscenes were not exciting or fun... there was no cutscene in the game that got me saying "HELL YEA!!! THAT WAS AWESOME!!!" There was no Dante skydiving from the side of a tower, no Vergil slicing up Beowulf in multiple pieces and uppercutting him to the ceiling, no Dante juggling a motorbike in mid air with just his hand guns etc. After witnessing the story you really can't make the excuse that this is a "gritty" or more realistic take on the canon, it's still very cheesy and game like. So yeah color me disappointed on this front, I expected more even if I expected something different I felt I was ultimately bored of the cutscenes and have no motivation to see them again on successive walkthroughs. I felt that both Heavenly Sword and Enslaved delivered a better narrative experience as well as better characters. I also felt that the voice acting wasn't up to snuff with what is expected of NT.
Soundtrack: The soundtrack was a hit or miss for me mostly a miss. I will say that ever since DMC3 I have NOT been a fan of this type of music for the DMC series. I have always preferred DMC1's style of music. I think there is a decent amount of tracks in the OST and the ambient tracks are quite nice but the music used for the bosses was really mediocre. Of course music is extremely subjective and some people will love this type of music so you are better off listening to the soundtrack online.
Game play/Combat: This is the fucking shit right here. Ignore what I have said before if you want "real talk". Overall I felt that the combat of DmC was its strongest point and I know many people did not expect this. I think the artstyle, platforming, soundtrack, visuals and story are OK to good at best but the game play is something that transcends better than good even into great territory. I certainly had the most fun fighting hordes of enemies and crowd controlling them with my tools. While the game play and combat is not up to snuff with previous DMC games, even being just a tier below those games makes the game play of this game very solid. There are quite a few mechanics in the game that promote skillful play like perfect releases, parry, enemy step, on the fly weapon swaps. Please note that the style ranking and mission ranking system is still borked to hell but the best way to extract enjoyment out of the game is to just try to style on enemies the best you can and disregard the SSSs on the side and after missions. You will have fun experimenting with weapon moves and attributes against different enemies. With all the tools available to you on the fly sometimes you get lost in the heat of the battle and don't know what to use! The AI of the enemies leave something to be desired and a lot of the enemies have really generic designs. Some of the later enemies are good though but one enemy stands tall among the rest.... Drakavac. Drakavac should be x-copied and put in the other DMC games, he's that good. Whenever a Drakavac comes up I have genuine fun fighting him. Note that he isn't super hard or challenging but he engages you and he doesn't fall for the same bull shit tactics that other enemies fall to. He doesn't get grappled easily, you can't shoot him, your combos have to be tight or he will parry you even in the air and even Devil Trigger doesn't affect him completely. He's fast and deceptive... fighting a couple of them along with other slightly advance enemies like Rage, Tyrants, Butcher or Witch is an exciting experience. It's sort of disappointing that some of the enemies in the Vergil DLC didn't make it into the game because that would've bolstered the enemy variety of the game by a lot. As it stands only a few enemies provide an engaging combat experience, the rest are mostly fodder enemies or gimmick style enemies.
Speaking of gimmicks... this game has a lot. Some are good gimmicks like using the Shotgun to down Harpies or using Round Trip to lock a Witch in place while breaking its shield. What I don't like are the color coated enemies because they prevent you from styling on them. You can only use set weapons constricting creativity in the game which goes against the pillars of this type of game. Another thing I don't really like as a whole are the bosses... 5 out of the 6 bosses are just humongous boss types with very obvious attack patterns and the only humanoid boss in the game fails to deliver a challenging fight. I don't think I died once on any boss and from the looks of things, bosses don't really spike in difficulty in the other modes. A lot of the bosses have really obvious gimmicks to beat them and once you figure out the gimmicks it's just a "going through the motions" process of depleting their lifebars. Because of this you can't really style on bosses because by the time you start your combo it will be interrupted by some cinematic.
As far as weapon selection goes, I felt that only 2 weapons really felt unique to the game the rest felt really generic. The Aquila is a great weapon and so is the Kablooey which is an explosive needle gun... both weapons are going to be staple for combo exhibition. The good thing about the weapons is that they all have some usage and their moves usually have good utility in the game. Even the firearms are useful like the Shotgun which is a great fodder enemy crowd controller. Speaking of crowd control... this game is ALL about the crowd control much more than previous DMC games. You have so many tools to control crowds or position them around. The Aquila is a prime example of this as it can lock enemies in position, launch multiple enemies or bring multiples up to Dante. The Eryx ground slam is also useful for clearing out packs as are moves like Tremor, Drive, Ricoshot and Fireworks. And your crowd control tactics have to be up to snuff in this game or you will get worked in the harder difficulties. Certainly the regular enemies provide a stronger challenge than bosses in the harder difficulties.
The combo mechanics are easily better than your average action game as that is the big point of this game to begin with. While the mechanics are of less quality than in previous games (like for example enemy step is less useful and resets enemy downward momentum), I fell that there is enough juice in the game to please combo fans for quite a time. The combo exhibition isn't going to require godlike execution like in previous games and the skill ceiling certainly has been lowered but that ceiling is still out of reach for most gamers and thus worth pursuing if you enjoy this type of game. I felt that the game could've been a lot better with lock on. So much of the game revolves around isolating a particular type of enemy and going ham on it that not being able to lock on really creates issues. It becomes a big problem when you face dual Rage enemies both of which are different colored or when you are fighting a pair of Drakavak and they are are teleporting all over the place.
There is so much more I can talk about the game play but for the purposes of the review I will have to cut it short. I enjoyed the game play, I think it has depth, I think the game will have some very nice combo swag videos but the skill ceiling is much lower than previous games and the mechanics aren't nearly as polished. For a majority of players this will not matter but for the small percentage of people who live for pushing their abilities to the maximum they will of course be disappointed and they do not need to read this review to figure it out anyway.
TL
R Bullet points please: PROS:
*Solid combat system with great potential for combo exhibition even if it's a tier below the previous DMC games
*Diverse and impressive looking environments throughout the game. A lot of work was put in the art of the game
*Lots of hidden items, secret missions and higher difficulties to explore in the game
*Crazy combination of enemies including Drakavak that force you to get creative with your toolset
*Good pacing and good length for an action game. 8 hours with no repetition or backtracking.
*Vergil's cock is bigger than Dante's.
CONS:
*Soundtrack is a hit or miss, mostly a miss especially for bosses
*Bosses are extremely underwhelming and fail to provide an engaging combat experience
*Story and characters ended up being disappointing. NT failed to create something riveting out of the creative liberties they took with the series
*Platforming gets repetitive and mind numbing towards the end. There are only so many ways you can use the same formula
*No legendary cutscenes in the game that will be talked about for years... except for a couple of bad ones
8/10
call_kotaku
Member
So, would you rather have DMC5 or DmC2 next?
DMC5. I wouldn't mind both and I feel that they can easily transition to a DMC3 style story with DmC2 but that would just prompt more comparisons to the old series.
I forgot to add in the reviews that while 30FPS the game does remain very stable and there aren't any highly obvious framerate drops on the 360 version.
I forgot to add in the reviews that while 30FPS the game does remain very stable and there aren't any highly obvious framerate drops on the 360 version.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I'm mad late but isn't the mundus fight
basically the saviour part deux? Didn't think they would go as far as copy the attack patterns
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Hmm after reading dahbombs review I'll may even purchase if I like rental copy. Did they say how much the vergil DmC will be?
SlasherJPC
Banned
Funny I mention this in my review I'm writing. lol
canadian crowe
Member
I think the DLc pack is going to be $10.
BeautifulMemory
Member
Solid review on a solid game Dahbomb, glad to hear it was an enjoyable experience. Definitely surprising to hear that you thought combat was the strongest the point. If things in general are passable or great...then it sounds like this is the balance that Capcom and some fans have been looking for...between variety in design and enjoyable/accessible/deep combat
I do honestly believe that the combat was the strongest point of the game. At least it was for me. I am not raring to go back and see the cutscenes or go through the platforming segments or to even look at the environments again... I want to go back to take on 2 Drakavaks in DMD.
It's already bought. $40 on GMG.
Slamtastic
Member
Are you going to buy the PC version?
BeautifulMemory
Member
and I think time will tell just how people think how good this game really is for them. I am never sure whether to assess a game (or a movie) base on a fresh playthrough or on repeated, in-depth playthrough
For example
DMC1 - 1st playthrough: good game, good atmosphere, time to move on to other games; subsequent playthroughts, especially months spent on DMD: Godlike
DMC3 - 1st playthrough: it's ok, limited upgrades, not knowing secret missions, not knowing some of the more advanced/essential game mechanics; subsequent playthrough: OMFG
DMC4 - 1st playthrough: gorgeous, amazing to experience DMC in HD, some boss fights were epic; subsequent playthroughs: hundreds of hours spent on Bloody Palace, and little interest in the campaign
For example
DMC1 - 1st playthrough: good game, good atmosphere, time to move on to other games; subsequent playthroughts, especially months spent on DMD: Godlike
DMC3 - 1st playthrough: it's ok, limited upgrades, not knowing secret missions, not knowing some of the more advanced/essential game mechanics; subsequent playthrough: OMFG
DMC4 - 1st playthrough: gorgeous, amazing to experience DMC in HD, some boss fights were epic; subsequent playthroughs: hundreds of hours spent on Bloody Palace, and little interest in the campaign
First time I played DMC1 I thought it was a good game not a great game. I don't know why... I was not floored by it the first time I played it. I guess I was a lot younger back then and wasn't much into "hardcore" mechanics heavy gaming so I didn't have the perspective. When I played it on the harder difficulties with a full moveset that's when I started to fall in love with it. Now I think it's a classic.
DMC3 first time I played it I just thought it was really fucking hard but oh so satisfying when you finally beat the game. Over time I began to think the game was godlike and a top tier action game of the PS2 generation (still is I guess). I have also realized that it had the best story out of all the DMC games and some of the most legendary cutscenes in a game yet.
DMC4 first time I played it I thought it was a good game even a good DMC game but did not meet my lofty expectations. After digging deeper into the mechanics and BP I started liking the game a lot and started accepting that the game has a deeper combat system than even DMC3's. I also started enjoying the enemies more. Now I think it's one of the best action games of this generation but it still has terrible level design overall and a terrible story.
All the DMC games I have liked more on successive walkthroughs. I feel like DmC will also be like that especially after we get Vergil and Bloody Palace. I think a well designed BP will do this game justice. I think I will enjoy the game more now that I don't have to watch the cutscenes and can just skip them plus I can stop worrying about whether it's good or not.
DMC3 first time I played it I just thought it was really fucking hard but oh so satisfying when you finally beat the game. Over time I began to think the game was godlike and a top tier action game of the PS2 generation (still is I guess). I have also realized that it had the best story out of all the DMC games and some of the most legendary cutscenes in a game yet.
DMC4 first time I played it I thought it was a good game even a good DMC game but did not meet my lofty expectations. After digging deeper into the mechanics and BP I started liking the game a lot and started accepting that the game has a deeper combat system than even DMC3's. I also started enjoying the enemies more. Now I think it's one of the best action games of this generation but it still has terrible level design overall and a terrible story.
All the DMC games I have liked more on successive walkthroughs. I feel like DmC will also be like that especially after we get Vergil and Bloody Palace. I think a well designed BP will do this game justice. I think I will enjoy the game more now that I don't have to watch the cutscenes and can just skip them plus I can stop worrying about whether it's good or not.
call_kotaku
Member
Do you think this was a successful reboot? It seems like it didn't particularly improve on the series' weakpoints and doesn't match the old series' strengths. How "new" is the direction the game is taking?
While I think it's a good action game, I don't think it was a completely successful reboot and you already answered why I think that in the bolded. If this game had improved on the writing, story and characters of DMC dramatically then I could've seen the argument.
I can see the game being successful in bringing in a new audience that wasn't there before but that could come at a heavy cost of losing fans. At the end we don't really know how many new fans they gained vs losing old fans so it's difficult to gauge the success of the game.
I disagree with this entirely. I think NT's take on the DMC franchise and more importantly how they characterized Dante and Vergil is perfectly fine if not astounding. While I will give you credit that every other character except Vergil may appear flat or are one-dimensional, they are designed and structured that way to contrast Dante or act as foils/complements to further develop Dante. From the get-go this is an origin story so the narrative elements, in this case characterization of the cast, that make up DmC is perfectly fine given the actual length of the game. Furthermore, Vergil is a very family focused individual and shows this by showing the need to avenge the death of his mother and imprisonment of his dad as well as showing affection and compassion to his brother. This characterization is further important as it helps to develop Dante from a selfish or nont-trusting street thug into a more dutiful and vengeful character much like Vergil. The payoff is especially amazing considering how the game ends and
shows that the twins, while similar in many ways by the end of the game, are actually quite different due to their philosophy and outlook of the world.
The story is coherently created and is very consistent. Each character serves to bring some narrative background/detail, develop Dante's character, or serves as a plot point for moving things along. This shows as the Order is barely expanded upon as well as Sparda. These serve no relevance to the main focus of the story which is to kill Mundus as well as the personal vendetta that Dante has - as well as his growth but I think I pounded upon that enough. Sparda and the Order only serve to do some world-building and have a premise set up for Dante and Vergil's character to make sense as well as wrap up some logical inconsistencies or blank spots the game would suffer from.
In short, the narrative of DmC is like Batman Begins in that it's a reboot origin story. While it doesn't follow the latter's greatness DmC does follow the typical origin-story archetype. There's a main character that needs to be drastically refined and it shows if you compare the two from the beginning and end. There's a cast that serves to do that as well as have some people act as foils/complements. It even has the climax turn-around where the main character would do something that is atypical due to a change that he has experienced - in this case it would be
Dante going out of his way to rescue Kat
More of my thoughts here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46360897&postcount=1469
All the characters in DmC really do appear flat and uninteresting. And the story itself is the weakest point of the entire game.
Kayos, each character in DMC3 (Lady, Vergil, Arkham) was designed to provide a similar contrast to Dante as a character, kind of like how you're describing, and made it possible to draw parallels between the different relationships on familial ties/responsibilities. I didn't get that at all from DmC's cutscenes.
Kayos, each character in DMC3 (Lady, Vergil, Arkham) was designed to provide a similar contrast to Dante as a character, kind of like how you're describing, and made it possible to draw parallels between the different relationships on familial ties/responsibilities. I didn't get that at all from DmC's cutscenes.
Nothing about the story or characters is "astounding".
Vergil's character was a complete mess. He wanted to kill Mundus because he killed his mother and banished his father plus he wanted to stop the imprisonment of mankind. All valid goals to pursue... but then his heel turn at the end essentially goes against all of that. He basically wants to do exactly what Mundus is doing. Note that even Mundus feels that humans need a ruler to control them and Vergil states the same thing that Mundus does earlier in the game. This part of Vergil was NOT built up right at all. The whole fight at the end was completely stupid because of this. You can't even side with Vergil on the argument because his argument is so hypocritical... Dante and Kate rightfully call his ass out on it.
I felt that Dante's character was done justice and I think I even made mention of that. They developed his character just right and IMO he's not a complete douche like he is at the beginning. The rest of the characters are completely ho-hum and forgettable. Who cares about Kate except Dante? Vergil put her in her place at the end and rightfully so.
The whole scene at the pier with the stand off was VERY bad and unnecessary. The abortion snipe? Holy shit that was bad. Not to mention Vergil playing super stealthy hacking Solid Snake infiltrating Mundus' base and tinkering with security. I had to turn my brain off at some of the really bad tropes in the game because I would be ranting on the story really hard if I actually gave more than 2 fucks about it.
I felt that Dante's character was done justice and I think I even made mention of that. They developed his character just right and IMO he's not a complete douche like he is at the beginning. The rest of the characters are completely ho-hum and forgettable. Who cares about Kate except Dante? Vergil put her in her place at the end and rightfully so.
The whole scene at the pier with the stand off was VERY bad and unnecessary. The abortion snipe? Holy shit that was bad. Not to mention Vergil playing super stealthy hacking Solid Snake infiltrating Mundus' base and tinkering with security. I had to turn my brain off at some of the really bad tropes in the game because I would be ranting on the story really hard if I actually gave more than 2 fucks about it.
It's still in, mechanics wise the game is almost identical to the demo.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The story of DmC is pretty wack. It's a rehash of ideas from previous DMC games, with some forced satire bits that say nothing particularly interesting or revealing. Just on a technical level, the voice performances, body/facial animations seems a step down from Enslaved and Heavenly Sword. Somebody mentioned that they might have done this on a budget, and I guess they cheapen out on the motion-capture. Say what you will about DMC3/4, but they provide some fantastic and colorful action scenes, something that's pretty much entirely missing in DmC. The narrative starts off interesting enough, but by the halfway mark it goes through the motions, not a hint of flair or wit to it's proceedings. It does just enough to get by as an origin story, hitting all the action beats and levels they wanted, even the unearned
. It's ok, but it's nothing to write home about, and actually not on the level of Enslaved(say what you will about the ending, but I more compelled by that one's narrative and central relationship than anything else). Nothing you want to sit through again on subsequent playthroughs.
Vergil heel turn so we can rehash the DMC3 final boss
I'm talking solely about DmC and not DMC3. It has no relevance and your comment serves as a red herring. If you're trying to draw an analogy between the two games and you feel that you didn't get that out of DmC then there's nothing more to say since I'm probably not going to end up convincing you anyway.
Just because parts of the narrative are astounding, it doesn't mean the overall narrative is. Just thought I put that out there for those mistaking my stance. My stance is that there are standout aspects and the story overall is good.
Certainly not with that argument.
At this point, the real question is whether or not the reboot was successful in what it attempted to do. How else can you do that without comparing it to previous entries? I talked about DMC3 because of how remarkable it is to what you were describing (there's your relevance), and how I really didn't see that in DmC's cutscenes.
You also said that you "disagree with this entirely" on DahBomb's post, yet you fail to even address portions of his criticisms on cutscenes and characters.
VJC is right it IS a retread of DMC1/DMC3 with NT remixing things up. Only thing it was missing was someone trying to acquire Sparda's power but then again they butchered Sparda's character as it is. Who the hell would want that loser's power?
Also WTF as up with Vergil slicing a hole through a dimension and just disappearing like that? How do you even explain that within the context of the game?
As far as I can tell the unlocks are the difficulty modes, coatless DmC Dante, DmC Dante with white hair and Super Dante.
GotchaForce
Member
Someone earlier in the thread listed a + as the amount of unlocks. I saw the strategy guide today but saw no unlocks at all. Is there a list of them somewhere?
It's not exactly what Mundus is doing. You're having the same stance as Dante by saying what you said in the first paragraph. Vergil makes it clear what's different about his rule and what Mundus does. Dante on the other hand doesn't see it Vergil's way and believes that what he is doing is the exact same thing as Mundus. While Vergil seeks to respect and work with his subjects, Mundus seeks to control and manipulate them. This is a difference of ruling in which one is a reverent king and the other a tyrannical dictator using his powers to coerce his subjects. Also, Mundus was attempting to justify his actions. While he brings up interesting points, the method used to prevent death and other stupid stuff humans would do is different from what Vergil is thinking of. Vergil is giving mankind freedom. However he seeks to intervene and rule over them if problems arise. He seeks to guide them to prevent mistakes. There's a clear difference in perspective.
The whole pier and Lilith getting killed was stupid. It's one of the few parts of the game that served to move the plot just for the sake of and justify the anger scene at the end with Mundus. It is stupid and I agree. Dumb plot point.
The whole pier and Lilith getting killed was stupid. It's one of the few parts of the game that served to move the plot just for the sake of and justify the anger scene at the end with Mundus. It is stupid and I agree. Dumb plot point.
Well, my point is to make my stance clear. Even if I was trying to convince you it would be a circular argument since your argument is based on your preconceived thoughts and preference of something. Unless I can change the root of that preference, which in this case I don't think I can, there's no point. I just want to avoid redundant throwing of comments.
I'm not talking about if the reboot is successful. If you read my post you would realize that I am talking about NT's characterization of Dante and Vergil. Reboot has nothing to do with it. This is a red herring. Sure DmC is a reboot and it's impossible to avoid talking about the characterization of these two characters as a reboot but I am judging the story as a standalone. The only reason i bring up the idea of a reboot is to reinforce the BB analogy and show that there are similarities to what NT has done to the DMC franchise. In the end, my point was trying to justify the main story of the game. The second, and consequently "doesn't matter," point is that this reboot is similar to another entertainment title.
Vergil trying to tell his side of the argument was the exact conversation that Mundus had with Dante. Humans are weak and frail so they can't rule over themselves that's why a powerful entity like a demon has to rule over them make sure they don't kill each other or starve to death.
Vergil IS a controller and a manipulator. To him Kate was nothing more than a pawn in his ploy and the final cutscene proved it. Even earlier on he had no regard for Kate's life and only used her as a means to an end. He is no different from Mundus. He would've sacrificed a thousand humans to reach his goal (but would not have sacrificed either Dante nor himself) because to him humans are beneath him and he's a more powerful race.
I think I will have to stop because this thread is starting to look like a CIA document with all these spoiler tags. I have said my word on the story, I don't think it's all that.
But my argument isn't based on DMC3. My position is simply that DmC failed in how you're describing it succeeded. I offered DMC3 not as an argument, but as a tangential comment. You don't have to address it, especially if you have no background concerning it, but you also shouldn't be dismissive simply because it's something that's referenced.
Anyway, DahBomb was in the process of discussing if the reboot was successful, and then I read your post, so I was approaching it from that context.
Kat, Vergil, Dante, and Mundus each act in superficial, unbelievable ways, but in a setting that looks to encourage a gritty, modern, realistic interpretation. Some of the cutscenes were forced and inconsistent. This is true even if we're not coming from the context that this is allegedly Ninja Theory's primary skillset as a developer.
But anyway, the center of the disagreement is simply an interpretation of characters and writing. It's subjective to the very core.
Slamtastic
Member
Play the DLC to find out.
Probably he
tries to find some powerful thing in the demon world so he can fight Dante and achieve his idea of being a benevolent king and saving humans from fighting among themselves/a new demon trying to take over by being strong. And maybe he's jealous of getting beat and wants to overcome Dante.
Mundus' idea of rule and Vergil's idea of rule are different. If you read my previous post you would've known that. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it to you.
Vergil has the appearance of being a controller and manipulator but just because he may appear so it doesn't mean he is. You can't say that in the situation you described, what Vergil suggested was the most optimal plan of action. What Vergil was trying to do is make the best of what he could while trying to keep his brother alive. What he suggested isn't deceitful. It wasn't cutthroat. It's not anything bad. He made a realistic and safe decision. What Dante suggested was reckless and could've possibly let to failure.
Vergil has the appearance of being a controller and manipulator but just because he may appear so it doesn't mean he is. You can't say that in the situation you described, what Vergil suggested was the most optimal plan of action. What Vergil was trying to do is make the best of what he could while trying to keep his brother alive. What he suggested isn't deceitful. It wasn't cutthroat. It's not anything bad. He made a realistic and safe decision. What Dante suggested was reckless and could've possibly let to failure.
If this is the case then I apologize. I didn't understand that was the context you were coming from and that makes sense why we were in stasis. Thanks.
As for not addressing, I find it poor rhetoric to not point out a fallacy when I see it. Once again, apologies.
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