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[Jubenhimer]

In the past, it used to be that when next generation consoles arrive, most developers quickly move focus to the new hardware, leaving the last gen systems without much support. But in recent times, that's slowly been changing. The PS2 for example was getting games like Persona 4 well into the PS3 generation. Then there was the PS3 and 360 still getting big games like Metal Gear Solid V, Watch Dogs, and Shovel Knight even after the 8th generation consoles arrived. Bringing us to today, where we're mid-way through the PS5 and Xbox Series generation and the PS4 and Xbox One have still been getting big releases like Street Fighter 6 and Sonic Superstars, plus dozens of indie and AA titles. Its only just this year that more developers are starting to focus on current gen titles.

It feels like as the console generations go by, cross gen overlaps feel like they're lasting longer and longer. Obviously its because games are taking longer to make now, and so stuff that launches with a new generation often started development on previous hardware. But I also think another reason is because consoles are much easier to develop for now than the past. So if you're a small-ish team, it makes sense to continue supporting a large last-gen audience for as long as they're active.

 

[Dacvak]

Of course they are. The differences between generations have never been smaller, specifically regarding architecture. And game engines have never been so scalable. Not to mention production costs have never been so high, and publishers have never been so greedy.

Add that all together and you get much more cross-gen software than any other period of time. It’s not really a bad thing, it’s just inevitable.

 

[Punished Miku]

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it extend much further than it has already. Once Switch 2 hits, it will be very tempting to find a way to make scalable games that hit that.

 

[Bartski]

 

[Danjin44]

I think this gen devs starting to realize that investing on strong art direction is much more beneficial than expensive high tech graphics.

 

[cash_longfellow]

The answer is…people asked for backwards compatibility and they got it.

 

[RCU005]

I hate that! I'm OK with last gen getting the FIFAs, Legos, etc. but AAA games were about showcasing current gen power. Just remember when they showed God of War 3 for the first time, and it was something we could only dream of on the PS2.

Even with PS4, when they announced inFamous Second Son, it was a much better looking game than anything on PS3.

Now, there's no way to get excited for, and every game is becoming like those JRPG games like Neptune, which they always look one generation behind.

I really wanted to know what a PS5 only God of War Ragnarok would've been, as well as Horizon Forbidden West ( as great as it still looks), but even now, they keep making the games for PS4, so we will never have a GOW 3, Killzone 2, Uncharted 4, TLoU2 moment anymore.

 

[nial]

In the past, it used to be that when next generation consoles arrive, most developers quickly move focus to the new hardware, leaving the last gen systems without much support. But in recent times, that's slowly been changing.

Nintendo was releasing first-party games on Super Famicom (SNES) in Japan less than a year before the launch of GameCube.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Way, way too long.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Way, way too long

Nintendo was releasing first-party games on Super Famicom (SNES) in Japan less than a year before the launch of GameCube.

Supporting older hardware is commendable, and appreciated. That isn’t what the OP was talking about, I don’t think. More so the LACK of full support for new hardware a lot sinner in the generation.

 

[Jubenhimer]

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see it extend much further than it has already. Once Switch 2 hits, it will be very tempting to find a way to make scalable games that hit that.

Switch 2 is likely to have more in common with PS5 and Series in terms of graphical features and tools, even if the raw specs might be closer to PS4.

It'll be very similar to the current Switch where though it's less powerful, you can still make modern games using modern tools for it.

 

[Loomy]

Cross gen is here to stay.

 

[nkarafo]

In Europe, the Sega Master System lasted almost as much as the Mega Drive. In late 1995 you could still find it in stores along with the 16bit consoles and the newly released PS1/Saturn. And you could see a few new games reviewed in game magazines too.

In my country we got our first official Nintendo distributor in 1991. In 1992 they would promote the NES along with the SNES, like two different gaming options. We were kids then, nobody really knew when the NES was released in US, let alone the Famicom in Japan. For us it was a new console, just cheaper with worse graphics. And we would continue to see it in the stores for almost as long as the Master System, well into 1995.

Basically, the 8bit consoles co-existed with the 16bit ones.

 

[semiconscious]

Cross gen is here to stay.

it has to be, what with extended development. it's conceivable at this point that you'll be able to simply skip every other console generation & still have access to all the games available on them...

 

[Robb]

Yes. Makes the new consoles just feel like slight hardware upgrades of what is already available rather than generational leaps.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Maybe?

This gen launched in the middle of the covid pandemic.

They also say there's only a pattern if something happens at least 3 times in a row, so...

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Gens are over. Gamering is a mature technology.

 

[Codes 208]

Easier for them to considering everything is x86 nowadays. This wasnt the case before prior to gen 7 because every new hardware essentially its own architecture

 

[HofT]

it has to be, what with extended development. it's conceivable at this point that you'll be able to simply skip every other console generation & still have access to all the games available on them...

For sure. We won't get real current gen games until next gen is released. And obviously, that will be cross gen as well.

 

[Hudo]

Yes. If the Pro versions of consoles become a standard thing (and it looks like they are), we will see a lot longer cross-gen period since the jump from a Pro console to the next generation will be smaller. I.e. game releases and deployment will be more "fluid" between generations and platforms. But this is also a consequence of locking people into digital ecosystems.

It also doesn't help that big-ass games take 8+ years to make...

 

[Three]

I think some are trying to get rid of gens altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if games released across 3 gens.

 

[existensmaximum]

Yeah well, nobody is interested anymore in pushing the current-gen consoles to their limit with exclusive games. Especially when they decide to release pro consoles for extra brute-forcing instead of optimization so yeah. Cross-gen is the new norm and I doubt we will be very impressed by console games ever again.

 

[Duchess]

The PS4 remains a powerful machine; it was always known at the time of release that its specifications would give it significant lifespan, longer than usual.

I can see the PS5 going the same way.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

At some point they will be everlasting. We are already heading that way.

The new console will just be an upgrade and you can play the new games with higher resolution, framerate and graphical fidelity then on the old consoles.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Well, they do, don't they? PS360 fell off a cliff mere months after the PS4 came out. But these companies aren't stupid. They don't chase exclusivity so bad and they won't stop supporting consoles still being used so soon ever again. Especially not since the architecture is largely similar now, and consoles are full BC from day one. Its rather painless to upgrade your system nowadays, you can keep and use all your bought games and peripherals. Save for the odd one out.

Older games that don't work on a new system is something of the past really. And something that shouldn't be done anymore. Its just stupid at this point.

And some people should stop thinking cross-gen hinders development or performance. First of all, cross-gen is the way the industry is heading. Secondly, I see no real proof. The best games I played this gen so far were cross-gen. But also some of the best looking games were cross-gen, I think its just not worth it to develop exclusive for PS5. I mean only the AAA studios get the best workforce and tech as they have the funds to do so, for them its not worth it to limit themselves to a single platform. And this goes even for in-house studios, who still do a lot of cross-gen work as well.

Other studios are too small to get anything ground breaking out of the hardware. Or they are players like FROM software, who don't give a shit. We all like Soulsborne don't we? So who cares.

And its not like the PS6 won't be cross-gen for its entirety as well lol.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Yes. Makes the new consoles just feel like slight hardware upgrades of what is already available rather than generational leaps.

By certain metrics there was 2000% power difference between the PS1 and PS2. Obviously the real power difference is very different, but it gives you am impression of what it means to have a next generation hardware.

It used to be that you could make better games by using next gen hardware. But now clearly we have more power than the studio could afford to use. The benefit is there; it just doesn't justify the work and the customer doesn't want to pay for it.

Unless and until VR takes off, there is no justification to spend that money to use next gen hardware.

 

[Robb]

By certain metrics there was 2000% power difference between the PS1 and PS2. Obviously the real power difference is very different, but it gives you am impression of what it means to have a next generation hardware.

It used to be that you could make better games by using next gen hardware. But now clearly we have more power than the studio could afford to use. The benefit is there; it just doesn't justify the work and the customer doesn't want to pay for it.

Unless and until VR takes off, there is no justification to spend that money to use next gen hardware.

For me personally it’s more about the games being designed from the ground up for the new hardware. Not only in terms of looks, but also AI, effects, scope, well.. Everything.

We got God of War Ragnarok, it released on Ps5, but is designed from the ground up for hardware from 2013.. We’ll likely be getting Metroid Prime 4 as a cross gen title next year, and it’ll be designed for hardware from 2017.

And when we finally get a new God of War it doesn’t seem unlikely that it’ll be cross gen with Ps6, and designed for hardware from 2020 instead of, say, 2028.

It feels like we might end up getting stuck in a loop where we get up to date hardware that plays last gen games.

Not that those games are bad by any means. It’s just disappointing. I want my fancy new stuff to be utilized to the max, or at the very least have games that are designed from the ground up for that piece of hardware as the lowest common denominator.

 

[kikkis]

Cod dropped last gen after two years, now we are still getting it on year 4.

 

[Danjin44]

For me personally it’s more about the games being designed from the ground up for the new hardware. Not only in terms of looks, but also AI, effects, scope, well.. Everything.

We got God of War Ragnarok, it released on Ps5, but is designed from the ground up for hardware from 2013.. We’ll likely be getting Metroid Prime 4 as a cross gen title next year, and it’ll be designed for hardware from 2017.

And when we finally get a new God of War it doesn’t seem unlikely that it’ll be cross gen with Ps6, and designed for hardware from 2020 instead of, say, 2028.

It feels like we might end up getting stuck in a loop where we get up to date hardware that plays last gen games.

Not that those games are bad by any means. It’s just disappointing. I want my fancy new stuff to be utilized to the max.

Hellblade 2 was design ground up for “next gen” does feel like it had AI or the scope of next gen game?

you wan more ambitious game with highest tech graphics but you think ”tech” is not only thing that limits development, there is also time and budget and man power.

if you want all of that then you might as well just wait for Star Citizen to come out (which might be never).

 

[TGO]

No shit.

The industry has reached it's ceiling, except for some reason Budgets & Development time has tripled since other happenings in the world.
But let's not tarish everything with the same brush.
We have current gen only games that are a leap over what last gen could do and they don't even have stupid budgets and was made in a moderate time frame.
Just because a majority of devs that are mostly western choose to spend time and budgets on something that was possible a decade ago and use the "it takes longer & cost more" to make a game that's also releasing on last gen and more or less looks the same but took longer and cost more.
And it's not just the games industry.
Movies are also taking longer & costing more due to CGI budgets despite looking worse then a film from 2008.
There is a problem we are all aware of, but nobody wants to say it.
We are getting CrossGen games still because Current Gen is behind majorly.
We are in year 4 but still haven't reached 2nd Wave software.
One thing I do know is this gen better be a long one..

 

[Danjin44]

Movies are also taking longer & costing more due to CGI budgets despite looking worse then a film from 2008.

Then you have movie like Godzilla minus One that does better looking CG effects with half the budget.

This over spending destroying both movie and gaming industry.

 

[March Climber]

I think some are trying to get rid of gens altogether. I wouldn't be surprised if games released across 3 gens.

I’m more than okay with them doing this post-PS5.

PS4/PS5 cross gen is a problem mainly because most games built on both are not properly taking advantage of the biggest improvement, which was the PS5 SSD.

Unless there is some new tech discovered that will change everything, PS5/PS6 will only be a problem graphically and to me that is no different than going from Ultra to medium settings on a PC. Things like the Steam Deck and (eventually) Switch 2 are already causing this long bridge to exist.

 

[PeteBull]

In the past, it used to be that when next generation consoles arrive, most developers quickly move focus to the new hardware, leaving the last gen systems without much support. But in recent times, that's slowly been changing. The PS2 for example was getting games like Persona 4 well into the PS3 generation. Then there was the PS3 and 360 still getting big games like Metal Gear Solid V, Watch Dogs, and Shovel Knight even after the 8th generation consoles arrived. Bringing us to today, where we're mid-way through the PS5 and Xbox Series generation and the PS4 and Xbox One have still been getting big releases like Street Fighter 6 and Sonic Superstars, plus dozens of indie and AA titles. Its only just this year that more developers are starting to focus on current gen titles.

It feels like as the console generations go by, cross gen overlaps feel like they're lasting longer and longer. Obviously its because games are taking longer to make now, and so stuff that launches with a new generation often started development on previous hardware. But I also think another reason is because consoles are much easier to develop for now than the past. So if you're a small-ish team, it makes sense to continue supporting a large last-gen audience for as long as they're active.

Tldr psx to ps2 was around 100x power increase, ps4 to ps5 is 3x cpu increase and at max 6x gpu increase(meaning if game ran 1080p30 native on ps4 it cant even do proper 4k60 native on ps5 since for that gpu would have to be around 8x stronger).
Ofc u got lil bit of raytracing in there, very fast ssd + more bandwith and vram etc but overall its smallest step up, tech advances, especially in console space(aka console form factor, below 250W powerdraw) have slowed down a lot, remember sony/ms have to rely on what amd has prepared for them hardware wise, and current state of amd gpu's is terrible, they only got 5% marketshare on pc- thats the reason rdna4 will be midrange cards btw, they have to focus on marketshare again same like back in the days with polaris.

 

[Robb]

Hellblade 2 was design ground up for “next gen” does feel like it had AI or the scope of next gen game?

you wan more ambitious game with highest tech graphics but you think ”tech” is not only thing that limits development, there is also time and budget and man power.

if you want all of that then you might as well just wait for Star Citizen to come out (which might be never).

Sorry, I was probably being unclear. But “highest tech” isn’t really what I’m looking for personally. It’s more about not being limited by last gen restrictions for me.

Use new hardware to take some creative risks and try new stuff that wasn’t possible before or ran like crap in testing on the old hardware. Higher fidelity visuals is the least interesting part of it all. Imo Hellblade 2 could’ve and should’ve been sooooo much more than it is.

 

[PeteBull]

Sorry, I was probably being unclear. But “highest tech” isn’t really what I’m looking for personally. It’s more about not being limited by last gen restrictions for me.

Use new hardware to take some creative risks and try new stuff that wasn’t possible before or ran like crap in testing on the old hardware. Higher fidelity visuals is the least interesting part of it all. Imo Hellblade 2 could’ve and should’ve been sooooo much more than it is.

Game that will definitely fulfil ur wishes is about to launch, bit more patience

sept 6th

 

[Danjin44]

Sorry, I was probably being unclear. But “highest tech” isn’t really what I’m looking for personally. It’s more about not being limited by last gen restrictions for me.

Use new hardware to take some creative risks and try new stuff that wasn’t possible before or ran like crap in testing on the old hardware. Higher fidelity visuals is the least interesting part of it all. Imo Hellblade 2 could’ve and should’ve been sooooo much more than it is.

When budget of the game goes up then taking creative risk becomes less possible and point of taking risks is trying something might not work for everyone like FROM did with Demons Souls on PS3.

This is why you see most creative games come from AA or indie games because there is no large amount of
money on the line which allows them to be creative.

 

[Robb]

When budget of the game goes up then taking creative risk becomes less possible and point of taking risks is trying something might not work for everyone like FROM did with Demons Souls on PS3.

This is why you see most creative games come from AA or indie games because there is large amount of the money on the line which allows them to be creative.

Yeah, I definitely get why devs don’t do it and why we get all this cross-gen stuff. I just don’t like it and would prefer if things were different.

Game that will definitely fulfil ur wishes is about to launch, bit more patience

sept 6th

I’ll likely be buying the Ps5 Pro alongside that game.

 

[Danjin44]

Yeah, I definitely get why devs don’t do it and why we get all this cross-gen stuff. I just don’t like it and would prefer if things were different.

Nintendo was very creative with games like TotK with complex physic engine on weak ass console like Switch.

Cross gen or not, it up to devs to be creative…..Demons Souls was most influential game that even to this day most other devs still try to copy and Demons Souls was NOT high tech not even for its time…..most of its creative idea came from devs themselves.

 

[Robb]

Nintendo was very creative with games like TotK with complex physic engine on weak ass console like Switch.

Cross gen or not, it up to devs to be creative…..Demons Souls was most influential game that even to this day most other devs still try to copy and Demons Souls was NOT high tech not even for its time…..most of its creative idea came from devs themselves.

I agree, and the devs being good devs is the most important aspect. Hardware will obviously only facilitate possibilities for the devs and it’s up to them to use it.

But as with any project there will always be a ton of features and ideas that are scrapped and changed over time because of hardware/performance limitations. Using GoW: Ragnarok as an example, I’m sure the majority of those kind of scrapped ideas/changes wouldn’t have had to be made if it was made for Ps5 as the lowest common denominator instead of Ps4.

 

[PeteBull]

Nintendo was very creative with games like TotK with complex physic engine on weak ass console like Switch.

Cross gen or not, it up to devs to be creative…..Demons Souls was most influential game that even to this day most other devs still try to copy and Demons Souls was NOT high tech not even for its time…..most of its creative idea came from devs themselves.

Those devs were focused on innovation and high game quality, nowadays many AAA studios in the west got their top priority being DEI- not game's quality or how much fun it is, and results is- mediocre/bad games that flop badly.

 

[Danjin44]

I agree, and the devs being good devs is the most important aspect. Hardware will obviously only facilitate possibilities for the devs and it’s up to them to use it.

But as with any project there will always be a ton of features and ideas that are scrapped and changed over time because of hardware/performance limitations. Using GoW: Ragnarok as an example, I’m sure the majority of those kind of scrapped ideas/changes wouldn’t have had to be made if it was made for Ps5 as the lowest common denominator instead of Ps4.

I bet you ANYTHING even if GOWR was not cross gen, it would have turned exactly as we got but with better eye candy…..do you REALLY think they would have try to “creative” with high profile IP like GOW when so much money on the line? I don’t think so.

 

[GymWolf]

The greedy cunts in charge didn't wanted to left ps4\xone sells behind, it's that simple.

 

[Robb]

I bet you ANYTHING even if GOWR was not cross gen, it would have turned exactly as we got but with better eye candy…..do you REALLY think they would have try to “creative” with high profile IP like GOW when so much money on the line? I don’t think so.

I think we’re going into a purely speculative discussion of what we think we might or might not have gotten, which is pointless.

I only used GoW as an example here. The point is mainly that there will always be scrapped content, scrapped gameplay features and scrapped ideas etc. due to the hardware. And if you design your game for Ps4, the things you have to scrap will be based of off what the Ps4 hardware can manage. Those same things would not necessarily have had to be scrapped if it was designed for Ps5.

 

[Danjin44]

I think we’re going into a purely speculative discussion of what we think we might or might not have gotten, which is pointless.

I only used GoW as an example here. The point is mainly that there will always be scrapped content, scrapped gameplay features and scrapped ideas etc. due to the hardware. And if you design your game for Ps4, the things you have to scrap will be based of off what the Ps4 hardware can manage. Those same things would not necessarily have had to be scrapped if it was designed for Ps5.

Based on how most AAA games are made in current gaming industry, that’s not hard to guess. just look at Hellblade 2, they had the money and MS’s support and was not cross gen and what they do with it? Basically done same as original Hellblade but with better eye candy.

 

[Robb]

Based on how most AAA games are made in current gaming industry, that’s not hard to guess. just look at Hellblade 2, they had the money and MS’s support and was not cross gen and what they do with it? Basically done same as original Hellblade but with better eye candy.

Sure, and as I said it’s dependent on the devs. I’d personally have higher expectations for Santa Monica or, say, Retro Studios, than Ninja Theory.

 

[Danjin44]

Sure, and as I said it’s dependent on the devs. I’d personally have higher expectations for Santa Monica or, say, Retro Studios, than Ninja Theory.

After Ragnarok? I don’t, that game felt tedious and story went absolutely no where. I trust Astro Bot devs who actual can be creative while make super fun game.

 

[Robb]

After Ragnarok? I don’t, that game felt tedious and story went absolutely no where. I trust Astro Bot devs who actual can be creative while make super fun game.

I can’t really say Ragnarok is my favorite either but despite its flaws it was still an enjoyable game with lots of content and a lot of good design decisions imo. I can’t say that for Hellblade 2 which I quit after 2/3 hours (which is probably halfway through the entire game).

 

[Audiophile]

The cross-gen period being extended sucks but the main issue with the PS4>PS5 cross-gen transition is that games had to be designed around underclocked, 2012-era netbook CPUs and high-latency mechanical HDDs with a barely guaranteed read of ~20MB/s. The fundamentally limits the capabilities of the game on the PS5 no matter how much more powerful the GPU is.

The good news going into the PS5>PS6 cross-gen period is that the PS5-based titles will be built around an adequate CPU and an ultra-low latency, fast SSD/IO stack with crazy decompression capabilities. The functional difference won't be as much of a concern when scaling titles up.

I expect Horizon 3, Spidey 3 & perhaps PHYSINT will all be cross-gen and significantly better on a PS6. The crazy thing is, a given title could be rendering at ~1440p/half-4K on PS5, PS5 Pro and PS6, with the base system using basic upscaling, the Pro using PSSR and the PS6 using an updated PSSR all to get to 4K, then on the latter all that extra GPU juice, bandwidth and CPU headroom can go towards FX, RT & FPS. By then I expect the ML scaling will be good enough that it makes zero sense to scale titles to 4K native with the extra headroom, but to throw it all at making the graphics themselves prettier and the game smoother.

Towards the latter half of this gen we'll see the implementation of Mesh Shaders and/or Virtualised Geometry into more engines, HDDs will be left in the past with SSDs being the baseline target for true current gen titles, RT will see more implementations and ML will see a lot of adoption with the Pro and PC. As we enter the next gen, these areas can all be scaled up drastically on a console that will benefit from 4 more years of hardware and software/engine development; and dev experience in these areas. Display targets will likely remain at 4K too, so resources won't be getting wasted on more pixels.

The lack of pandemic should also help a bit too.

 

[Madserb2023]

Yes and it will be even longer next time. Not just due to budgets and development times which can span generations but also due to a smaller technological gap. You couldn't run any version of Super Mario 64 on the SNES. You had to make completely separate versions of games in the past. Such as a 2d version of Virtua Fighter for the Genesis. You even had radically different versions of games between consoles of the same generation due to technical differences. Not the case now. If a PS6 version of a game runs at 4k/60 the same game would very likely be able to at 1080p/30 on the PS5 at the absolute worse without much change.

 

[Akuji]

Its the first time in which for some games there is basicly no diffrence between a ps4 and a ps5.

If your game is pixxelart and animated at 60fps, the Power of the ps4 is just enough, so even in 20 years there may be games like dead cells or hades that can run on a ps4.

Its not really a cross gen thing. We just habe enough Performance for some games while other games could use like 100x the Power of a 4090.