Do YOU think Emulation is the same as Piracy ?
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kevboard
Member
emulating Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, Konami, or [enter company name here] games on a PC is 100% legal.
Steam literally has Nintendo console emulators in their storefront
the question at hand is if Emulation is illigal.
the objectively correct (legally backed) answer is No.
arguing otherwise shows lack of intelligence or ignorance
kevboard
Member
so now we are arguing in bad faith?
Although Sony ultimately did not win any of its lawsuits against them, Bleem! had to shut down when the huge court costs became too much -Wikipedia
expected, but sad to see
edit: I can't find that text you pasted there... is that an AI answer? did you actually ask a fucking AI to give you a fucking summary?
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diffusionx
Gold Member
emulating Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, Konami, or [enter company name here] games on a PC is 100% legal.
Steam literally has Nintendo console emulators in their storefront
the question at hand is if Emulation is illigal.
the objectively correct (legally backed) answer is No.
arguing otherwise shows lack of intelligence or ignorance
it is absolutely and 100% illegal to load up a Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, or Konami ROM into Retroarch and play it. Even if you dumped the ROM yourself, as the backup provision is for archival purposes only. This is just how it is. it doesn't matter if the game hasn't been sold in a long time either, as "abandonware" is not a legal cooncept and a copyright holder doesn't lose their rights to a game because they haven't sold it this hardware generation (although the game would hit public domain eventually).
Again, I am not saying anyone should be thrown in jail, but it's totally and absolutely illegal.
ToadMan
Member
Not sure what you mean, the appelate court found against Bleem ultimately, so your basis for legality of this method of emulation fails.
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ToadMan
Member
I sure did.
kevboard
Member
why are people just always so confidently wrong?
making a backup and using that backup is legal on most western countries.
but let's not even go there. you don't even need to make a copy or dump a rom to emulate games.
USB cartridge adapters exist, and diac based games exist.
you don't need to copy a PS1 game to emulate it on a PC. and you don't need a bios file either as there are now Emulators that run with a legally reverse engineered bios
so again, YOU ARE OBJECTIVELY WRONG
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Parazels
Member
What about the times, when you emulated the games that you didn't own?
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
winjer
Member
The court found in favor of Bleem and emulation.
It was just that Sony keep on suing, until the Bleem company couldn't not afford to go to court and went bankrupt.
This just shows the lengths that a company like Sony will to, just to cripple any competition.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
kevboard
Member
well, your AI is wrong and using AI that way has shown to make you dumber. so, I hope you learned from this experience and stop using it
Technically not abandonware, but for people with common sense it's basically the same thing.
I understand the whole legal, piracy argument, but that only applies if you could not buy Nintendo games elsewhere. Nowadays there are many options to purchase games, both old and new. With someone like me, I never directly pay to a developer or publisher that I don't support, so really they wouldn't see my money anyway. I'm not sure what it is that I'm supposed to feel guilty about.
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Parazels
Member
kevboard
Member
Virtual Game Station was also sued by them and won. then Sony bought the company and shut it down as that was the only way to stop it.
kevboard
Member
Good luck to prove it in a court!
I don't need to. it's already proven. that's why legal precedence is a thing.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I don't know what country you are in, but according to Google's AI below
"
See the bullet about purpose. You can't legally use the archive copy while the original is sitting on a shelf. You can't copy a PSX disc to a USB as that violates the DMCA.
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metareferential
Member
If a game is not on sale anymore from the platform holder, the publisher, or the developer, as far as I'm concerned, there's no harm in using copies of said game.
If I legitimately bought a game, I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. If I want to use a copy of it for convenience, It's up to me. No, I don't care about ToS, EULAs or whatever.
And besides: there's still no proven evidence of the impact of piracy on sales, let alone on things that are not even up for sale.
I think piracy is the only true mean of conserving digital media, as long as governments have their heads up corporate's butt.
And by the way, many national laws actually don't forbid piracy, as long as you don't actively promote or distribute said content. In some places it's even ok to download from the internet, for personal use (or school use).
And considered how many times consumers are taxed, from sale tax to internet providers, to copyright protection laws, I don't blame people pirating music, movies or games (and that's where the correlation between piracy and sales falls apart: pirates don't buy, no matter what).
tell me you live in socialist Europe without telling me xD
If I legitimately bought a game, I can do whatever the fuck I want with it. If I want to use a copy of it for convenience, It's up to me. No, I don't care about ToS, EULAs or whatever.
And besides: there's still no proven evidence of the impact of piracy on sales, let alone on things that are not even up for sale.
I think piracy is the only true mean of conserving digital media, as long as governments have their heads up corporate's butt.
And by the way, many national laws actually don't forbid piracy, as long as you don't actively promote or distribute said content. In some places it's even ok to download from the internet, for personal use (or school use).
And considered how many times consumers are taxed, from sale tax to internet providers, to copyright protection laws, I don't blame people pirating music, movies or games (and that's where the correlation between piracy and sales falls apart: pirates don't buy, no matter what).
tell me you live in socialist Europe without telling me xD
Fess
Member
In theory it all depends how you acquired the rom files.
If you downloaded a rom pack of 4000 games then you're obviously a pirate.
If you ripped your own 10 carts then you're not a pirate.
If you only added the 10 rom files for the 10 carts you own, then I certainly wouldn't call you a pirate even if you didn't rip the carts yourself. But I grew up in a time when it was completely normalized to swap cassette tapes on the schoolyard. Don't listen to me.
If you downloaded a rom pack of 4000 games then you're obviously a pirate.
If you ripped your own 10 carts then you're not a pirate.
If you only added the 10 rom files for the 10 carts you own, then I certainly wouldn't call you a pirate even if you didn't rip the carts yourself. But I grew up in a time when it was completely normalized to swap cassette tapes on the schoolyard. Don't listen to me.
kevboard
Member
"according to google AI"
and you have the fucking gull to call others retarded. insane.
I won't even read that. provide sources YOU FOUND otherwise I'll ignore it
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diffusionx
Gold Member
lol, holy shit
Copyright and Digital Files (FAQ) | U.S. Copyright Office
Frequently asked questions and answers about copyright and digital files
www.copyright.gov
straight from the horse's mouth
Parazels
Member
Hasn't Nintendo recently demolished several emulators in a court?
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
You really think downloading the original Narc arcade rom is stealing?
We would have pretty much lost two or three decades worth of arcade games with that attitude.
I will support companies that sell their old arcade roms in a package - ie Capcom - but I'm not gonna wait for Light and Wonder Inc to find out if they're former iteration of Scientific Games obtained the rights to Narc when they merged with Williams.
But also I have a million ways to emulate Final Fight (which I have done), have owned a couple of ports (GBA for sure), but still bought the Capcom bundle to mainly play that one game.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Please everyone, stop with this shit already. AIs "knowledge" is based on skimming the internet and it could be as wrong as any article in Wikipedia. It's not all knowing and the only thing you prove when using it in online discussion is that you have no clue of what the fuck you are talking about.
MSduderino
Member
EULAs ARE legally binding and can be enforced in court if you agreed to it. They can be settled out of court too, of course.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Er, "so are you an idiot like I am, or not" is the question (many are I guess). Emulation is using software on a different platform than it was made for, if you own the software or pirated it (old or new) is a whole other matter irrespective to using emulation or the original platform it was made for
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Hawk The Slayer
Member
In a way yes but not as bad cause I emulated a bunch of games as I ain't paying for a few old consoles just to play some old ass games. And I owned some of the games I emulated a long long time ago.
While pure pirates just pirate the latest games that just came out almost all the time.
While pure pirates just pirate the latest games that just came out almost all the time.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
that doesnt hold up in the courts though.
just because a game isnt sold in your country for example, doesnt mean you can grab a copy online for free.
but for game preservation, for example, i say go crazy and grab all the ROMs.
companies sometimes lose stuff or modify the original versions.
Because they were advertising unreleased games on them in case of Yuzu and fear of being unable to fight back financially in case of Ruyjinx. As far as emulation goes it's perfectly legal.
What courts? Lol. Each country has different laws. Where I live there's no laws regarding online piracy unless you profit from it.
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Topher
Identifies as young
I said the EULA is not law. It is an agreement. There is a difference. And if it goes before a court then the court will determine if it is legally binding or not.
Kilau
Gold Member
Remember this? lol
Did Nintendo download a Mario ROM and sell it back to us?
Nintendo's stance on emulation has always been a rigid one. As far as the company is concerned, if you're downloading a…
www.eurogamer.net
MSduderino
Member
my bad, good distinction.
CuteFaceJay
Member
last time i checked Nintendo ain't porting the good pokemon games to switch2. god bless the steam deck.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
you may be right, but which country?
the great majority of countries are signatories on international copyright treaties (enforcement is another matter).
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Its not piracy if you are using your roms.
If you are selling raspberry pi or similar chocked with 1000s of games. You're a pirate, imo.
If you can buy the game to play it. Always do that.
Ethically, for me. If you 100% know you purchased that game and owned it once you can download that rom and play the game again. I know that doesn't stand up legally but thats how I see it.
If you are selling raspberry pi or similar chocked with 1000s of games. You're a pirate, imo.
If you can buy the game to play it. Always do that.
Ethically, for me. If you 100% know you purchased that game and owned it once you can download that rom and play the game again. I know that doesn't stand up legally but thats how I see it.
kevboard
Member
lol, holy shit
Copyright and Digital Files (FAQ) | U.S. Copyright Office
Frequently asked questions and answers about copyright and digital files
straight from the horse's mouth
so... you know that this backup copy can be USED by you right? the whole purpose of this backup copy is that you use it instead of the main copy.
which is why you have to delete it if you sell the main copy.
either way, it's legal in Germany. and as most EU laws are very similar to eachother, I bet it is also legal in many EU countries.
there was a legal precedent set by someone who made 7 copies for friends and family.
Privatkopie: Ist diese erlaubt? - Urheberrecht 2025
Privatkopie im Urheberrecht: ➧ Welche Vorgaben gelten gemäß Urheberrecht zur Privatkopie? ➧ Wie oft dürfen Sie ein Werk legal vervielfältigen? ➧ Mehr hier!
www.urheberrecht.de
Im Urheberrecht wird als Privatkopie eine Vervielfältigung für den eigenen Gebrauch beschrieben. Laut dem Bundesgerichtshof wird die Anzahl der Kopien auf sieben Stück begrenzt, die auch an Verwandte oder enge Freunde weitergegeben werden dürfen. Eine Weitergabe an alle Klassenkameraden oder Kollegen wäre allerdings nicht zulässig.
English:
What counts as a Private Copy?
A Private Copy in Copyright law is described as the multiplication for personal use. According to the Bundesgerichtshof the number of copies is limited to 7, and can be distributed to friends and family. Distributing them to Classmates or work colleagues however would not be allowed.
so, as you can see, it's not only legal, I could literally even give 6 of these copies to my family and immediate friends... you just can't hand them out to just anyone you know fleetingly basically, only to close friends and family.
I can buy an SNES usb cartridge adapter, dump Super Mario World, copy it to 6 different SD cards, hand them to my family members and use a 7th copy on my own PC, and it's all legal.
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Sojiro
Member
Voted no. Emulating itself is legal, but we all know the real issue comes from the roms, specifically how you acquire them.
The situation gets a good bit stickier when the emulator is targeting a platform that is still actively on the market like the OG switch. Your second point still holds true IMO, but when you have nearly a million retards downloading TotK a week before release, you can't exactly pickachu surprise face when Nintendo uses that ammo to shut down an emulator (RIP Yuzu).
I feel like this perfectly sums up how I feel over this issue, especially as point three applies to me, and I am not going to pretend it's not piracy, but I also won't lose any sleep over it.
The situation gets a good bit stickier when the emulator is targeting a platform that is still actively on the market like the OG switch. Your second point still holds true IMO, but when you have nearly a million retards downloading TotK a week before release, you can't exactly pickachu surprise face when Nintendo uses that ammo to shut down an emulator (RIP Yuzu).
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
How would NeoGAF console warriors have survived this? Imagine you could walk into gamestop and buy a disc that let you play God of War on Xbox. These guys winning in court set an amazing precedent.
I like to keep my internet life private.
Enforcement part is the most important. If you're not to be punished then it's just a question of ethics, etc. As far as ethics go I see zero problems accessing something that isn't available anymore. Who are you doing wrong by? Companies who you can't pay money ro anyway? You're just depriving yourself of some amazing experiences. It's sad that some people think they should fight for the cause of depriving others, lol.
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Avid Reading Horse
Member
Not piracy. it's like way better
GametimeUK
Member
Emulation isn't piracy. You can run pirated games on emulators, but then again you can run pirated games on native hardware too.
Burning my own games isn't piracy.
Burning my own games isn't piracy.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
well, I think we arrived at part of the issue here, the rules are different country to country.so... you know that this backup copy can be USED by you right? the whole purpose of this backup copy is that you use it instead of the main copy.
which is why you have to delete it if you sell the main copy.
either way, it's legal in Germany. and as most EU laws are very similar to eachother, I bet it is also legal in many EU countries.
there was a legal precedent set by someone who made 7 copies for friends and family.
Was gilt als Privatkopie?Privatkopie: Ist diese erlaubt? - Urheberrecht 2025
Privatkopie im Urheberrecht: ➧ Welche Vorgaben gelten gemäß Urheberrecht zur Privatkopie? ➧ Wie oft dürfen Sie ein Werk legal vervielfältigen? ➧ Mehr hier!
Im Urheberrecht wird als Privatkopie eine Vervielfältigung für den eigenen Gebrauch beschrieben. Laut dem Bundesgerichtshof wird die Anzahl der Kopien auf sieben Stück begrenzt, die auch an Verwandte oder enge Freunde weitergegeben werden dürfen. Eine Weitergabe an alle Klassenkameraden oder Kollegen wäre allerdings nicht zulässig.
English:
What counts as a Private Copy?
A Private Copy in Copyright law is described as the multiplication for personal use. According to the Bundesgerichtshof the number of copies is limited to 7, and can be distributed to friends and family. Distributing them to Classmates or work colleagues however is not allowed.
so, as you can see, it's not only legal, I could literally even give 6 of these copies to my family and immediate friends... you just can't hand them out to just anyone you know fleetingly basically, only to close friends and family
I'll also say it again, I don't really give a shit if anyone emulates, or even pirates, I emulate games, like many if not every gamer, I bought my kid bro one of those chinese handhelds with games preinstalled, I'm not a legal eagle about this, but the law is totally clear. Nintendo is well within their rights to act like assholes over this.
nial
Member
Wasn't GAF already a thing back then? I wonder what was the reaction on being able to play an emulated version of Gran Turismo 2 from a current gen console on another current gen console.
How would NeoGAF console warriors have survived this? Imagine you could walk into gamestop and buy a disc that let you play God of War on Xbox. These guys winning in court set an amazing precedent.
kevboard
Member
yes, but that still doesn't mean Emulation is illigal, since we have also established that you don't have to make a copy to run games on an emulator.
PS1 and PS2 emulators usually let you load directly from disc. and USB cartridge adapters exist that read straight from the cart.
cartridge based systems don't need a bios, and PS1 emulators that don't need a bios also exist already.
so emulation is absolutely legal.
unless you download illigal copies, they are not no.
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existensmaximum
Member
In theory; of course not
In reality for the majority of people; of course it is
(don't confuse enthusiasts on Neogaf with the majority, please)
In reality for the majority of people; of course it is
(don't confuse enthusiasts on Neogaf with the majority, please)
calico
Member
I don't think emulation or piracy is 'wrong' if you already bought the game or if the game is no longer being sold by the publisher. Other than that they are equally wrong and all the other excuses are bullshit.
So long as you paid your entry fee or it's no longer possible to pay the entry fee, you can do what you want imo.
So long as you paid your entry fee or it's no longer possible to pay the entry fee, you can do what you want imo.
Topher
Identifies as young
The law should really be focused on distribution of copyrighted material either way, imo. Playing my own legitimately purchased games on my own hardware is no ones business but mine. If we are going to get strict in the legal shit then show me a legal definition of "piracy" first. I see piracy as downloading games I don't own. If I'm breaking some law by extracting the bios from my PSP then fine, I guess......but that's not piracy. Folks are using that term far too broadly, imo.