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[Burbeting]

I'm concerned with how nin claimed that he didn't target anyone.

Well, I survived. So that means that you don't have a I g ability. I for one did not target anyone. I know I said that I wanted to target Sorian but in the end I did not want to take the risk in killing him.

This is fine by itself, but he soon followed with:

With no one dying I assume that mafia was jailed aswell that I could be the vigilante ( I am only assuming now, so feel free to disagree of course).

This post feels very manipulative to me. He is quickly hogging on the Quack doctor role, assuming he has it. He does say that "we are free to disagree", but it certainly gives me the vibe that he thinks now he is the Vig.

This is a problem because isn't this what scum would want? Quickly own themselves one of the town roles, so that they would get less suspicion from others? There was 20 minutes between day starting and him claiming this, more than enough time to think up this plan. He might had even said that he didn't target anyone, so that nobody would suspect that he was jailed.

What I'm saying is, this could easily be a fabrication. I feel concerned about this.

 

[Burbeting]

Sorian claimed no move too, but he didn't jump to the conclusion that he is Vig. I did want to wait for him to claim first, to see if he would try to pull the same thing.

 

[Sorian]

I'm concerned with how nin claimed that he didn't target anyone.



This is fine by itself, but he soon followed with:



This post feels very manipulative to me. He is quickly hogging on the Quack doctor role, assuming he has it. He does say that "we are free to disagree", but it certainly gives me the vibe that he thinks now he is the Vig.

This is a problem because isn't this what scum would want? Quickly own themselves one of the town roles, so that they would get less suspicion from others? There was 20 minutes between day starting and him claiming this, more than enough time to think up this plan. He might had even said that he didn't target anyone, so that nobody would suspect that he was jailed.

What I'm saying is, this could easily be a fabrication. I feel concerned about this.

Hmm, I was hoping this would be something more substantial. I agree that thinking you are the vig (or even CPR doc) is non-sense in this case but it i also the exact type of thing that nin would do so I'm not sure it changes my read of him much (which is basically null which is an entirely different issue). Your reach worries me more though that's mostly still me suspecting you from yesterday.

 

[Ty4on]

Got caught up in final fantasy, sorry. I didn't target anyone last night. Spun the wheel and got that as my first result anyway but in the last few minutes, it went full everyone do as they please and I still think the smarter move was to not go all out the first night so it worked out. Plus I would have just added to the clusterfuck that was Ty4on targeting anyway.

VOTE: CrimsonFist

Already asked but where were you yesterday.

To Burb, what's up?

To Splinter, my read has changed drastically.

Sorry if I'm completely wrong, bit didn't you support the everybody do their own thing strategy? That's what I remember from you yesterday.

Ty4on targeting id best targeting btw. No kill + info ftw! Shame no scum died tho.

 

[squidyj]

I did in fact target sorian.

 

[Sorian]

Sorian claimed no move too, but he didn't jump to the conclusion that he is Vig. I did want to wait for him to claim first, to see if he would try to pull the same thing.

To be fair, my first thought was honestly that I may be the vig or CPR doc but I dismissed it during catch up because another minute of thought and I realized while this is rare, it's not super low odds for the jailor and two other docs to make a no kill night happen accidentally.

 

[Sorian]

Sorry if I'm completely wrong, bit didn't you support the everybody do their own thing strategy? That's what I remember from you yesterday.

Ty4on targeting id best targeting btw. No kill + info ftw! Shame no scum died tho.

I supported the "RNG whether you act or not and then if you do act then everyone do their own thing", then the wheel idea came from Splinter and I jumped on that. Doing their own thing as in everyone acting though? No.

 

[Burbeting]

Hmm, I was hoping this would be something more substantial. I agree that thinking you are the vig (or even CPR doc) is non-sense in this case but it i also the exact type of thing that nin would do so I'm not sure it changes my read of him much (which is basically null which is an entirely different issue). Your reach worries me more though that's mostly still me suspecting you from yesterday.

It's not very substantial, but nothing really is for now in this game. We don't have much extra information right now from the targets since nobody died, and we have to remember that 2/8 claimed targets are lies. So I tried to look at what claims seemed most suspicious.

 

[Sorian]

It's not very substantial, but nothing really is for now in this game. We don't have much extra information right now from the targets since nobody died, and we have to remember that 2/8 claimed targets are lies. So I tried to look at what claims seemed most suspicious.

Bolded is false, no one died, scum who submitted the kill has no reason to lie on who they targeted. Even better, you have 2 people claiming they did nothing which is exactly what one of the goons did so, theoretically, no one could be lying.

 

[Sorian]

I did in fact target sorian.

So squidy, we're one day into the game and can you tell me absolutely anything you've brought to this game aside from tunneling on me? Even one other read or thought?

 

[Burbeting]

Bolded is false, no one died, scum who submitted the kill has no reason to lie on who they targeted. Even better, you have 2 people claiming they did nothing which is exactly what one of the goons did so, theoretically, no one could be lying.

Why would the killing goon tell the truth about who they targeted, though?

 

[Sorian]

Why would the killing goon tell the truth about who they targeted, though?

Why not? It's all purely WIFOM anyway so the conversation matters very little but there is absolutely 0 to lose.

 

[Burbeting]

Why not? It's all purely WIFOM anyway so the conversation matters very little but there is absolutely 0 to lose.

They can confuse the game further, to make it harder for town to figure out what happened during the night.

 

[Sorian]

They can confuse the game further, to make it harder for town to figure out what happened during the night.

Sure, again though, the goal isn't to piece together what happened last night as a group, it's to figure out what your own individual power is (or more likely, what it isn't) so that you know how to use it going forward. Actual solving of other people's powers can be left to the scum who fail at killing.

 

[squidyj]

I do not believe sorian was targeted by scum last night so I do not believe I am either the Quack or the CPR as I am the only one who targeted him.
if we lynched sorian and he flipped scum I would be further able to eliminate weak from my potential role list.
IF I am paranoid and I did in fact block a kill then scum would know that if they targeted someone who was unprotected but their kill did not go through.
Without further information I could be weak paranoid ordinary or naive.

 

[Burbeting]

Sure, again though, the goal isn't to piece together what happened last night as a group, it's to figure out what your own individual power is (or more likely, what it isn't) so that you know how to use it going forward. Actual solving of other people's powers can be left to the scum who fail at killing.

Goons can try to make others misunderstand their powers by lying, though.

 

[squidyj]

It is my belief that the jailer activated and blocked an action, potentially burbeting.
I believe sorian should be killed sooner rather than later, leaving him alive is a very good way for town to lose the game but that said there is a compelling case for lynching burbeting today as well on the basis of the night actions.

 

[Burbeting]

To go into further detail, it's not out of the realm of possibility that either Crimson or FEP'S claimed their target (Crimson as second on Tyne and FEP on me) in order to make the other person targeting these people to think that they are either Quack/CPR who was countered, or the one doing countering.

 

[Sorian]

Goons can try to make others misunderstand their powers by lying, though.

So if we take it a step further, only FEP or Crimson would be the goon that didn't act then if this is the case.

 

[Burbeting]

So if we take it a step further, only FEP or Crimson would be the goon that didn't act then if this is the case.

That is quite possible.

 

[Sorian]

It is my belief that the jailer activated and blocked an action, potentially burbeting.
I believe sorian should be killed sooner rather than later, leaving him alive is a very good way for town to lose the game but that said there is a compelling case for lynching burbeting today as well on the basis of the night actions.

Why is it a good way for town to lose? You haven't actually answered that question. Are you trying to push a policy lynch, do you think I did something (that would have had to have happened very early day 1), what? And where does your belief come from and why even point to Burb specifically and not Ty4on?

Is this night vale again?

 

[Sorian]

That is quite possible.

Mind you, it seems like to obvious of a play but I already suspect Crimson anyway so I'm biased on the possibility.

 

[Burbeting]

For now, I want to hear more from both of them (crimson and fep). At least Crimson seems to have stepped up his posts a little more today, although there hasn't been nothing very substantial there, the lists that just have all targets don't really need much thinking-work.

 

[squidyj]

Why is it a good way for town to lose? You haven't actually answered that question. Are you trying to push a policy lynch, do you think I did something (that would have had to have happened very early day 1), what? And where does your belief come from and why even point to Burb specifically and not Ty4on?

Is this night vale again?

ty was targeted by 2 but also targeted burb who was targeted by 2, burb targeted nin who was only targeted by burb.

now if burb flips doctor we know that either he was blocked by one of two people as paranoid or he was non-killing since nobody else has claimed to target nin.

If we lynched ty instead we have more interactions we need to account for from both ends.

it's shit like this where you're not even trying to follow through on the logic that make me want to see you lynched.

 

[Sorian]

ty was targeted by 2 but also targeted burb who was targeted by 2, burb targeted nin who was only targeted by burb.

now if burb flips doctor we know that either he was blocked by one of two people as paranoid or he was non-killing since nobody else has claimed to target nin.

If we lynched ty instead we have more interactions we need to account for from both ends.

it's shit like this where you're not even trying to follow through on the logic that make me want to see you lynched.

"Logic"

Ok, so give me specifics on what you just said, either he was blocked or he was non-killing. So basically, he is anything. "Oh, but then we can take into account that Ty or FEP is the paranoid!" Except we aren't solving that riddle anytime soon. Lynching Burb just for info makes no sense because his lunch does not give us any info. If he flips doc the maybe he was a regular doctor because nothing happened or maybe he was a killing doc and was jailed or maybe he was a regular doc and was jailed. K, great logic there. If he flips scum, then maybe a jailor got him, or maybe he targeted someone else that got healed, or maybe he was out in the woods taking a shit last night as bears tend to do and was doing nothing anyway.

So no, get off your high horse, I followed through on the logic, it's just without full flips, we aren't solving this and anyone trying is purposely wasting time. That's not even taking into account that this is Gafia and I'm willing to bet my career that a town member probably lied too to muck things up.

 

[Sorian]

Also, you didn't answer all the questions, calamariq.

 

[Ty4on]

Bolded is false, no one died, scum who submitted the kill has no reason to lie on who they targeted. Even better, you have 2 people claiming they did nothing which is exactly what one of the goons did so, theoretically, no one could be lying.

Sorian making himself the potential scum again.

To go into further detail, it's not out of the realm of possibility that either Crimson or FEP'S claimed their target (Crimson as second on Tyne and FEP on me) in order to make the other person targeting these people to think that they are either Quack/CPR who was countered, or the one doing countering.

Bunch of stuff. It's our job to see who's targeting most likely did nothing, aka is scum or native doctor

I'm probably too drunk to make scum reads, but I didn't like the tone in either post.

I have not considered what to think of people from the targeting. People targeting people with more than one person targeting them should help explain either vig or CPR block and are worth looking into. Make scenarios and see how likely they are.
Both of the killers deciding to ignore this round because *TRAIN SQUEAK* makes the situation murkier though >.>

 

[nin1000]

I'm concerned with how nin claimed that he didn't target anyone.



This is fine by itself, but he soon followed with:



This post feels very manipulative to me. He is quickly hogging on the Quack doctor role, assuming he has it. He does say that "we are free to disagree", but it certainly gives me the vibe that he thinks now he is the Vig.

This is a problem because isn't this what scum would want? Quickly own themselves one of the town roles, so that they would get less suspicion from others? There was 20 minutes between day starting and him claiming this, more than enough time to think up this plan. He might had even said that he didn't target anyone, so that nobody would suspect that he was jailed.

What I'm saying is, this could easily be a fabrication. I feel concerned about this.

That's why I said I assumed. Bear I know suggesting something as bold as being the vigilante could mean that it would track attention towards me. I was very aware of that before I made that post but want to make it very very clear that I don't want to manipulate anyone by saying this. Of course I can be wrong and therefore I won't be targeting anyone in the next night in order not to harm anyone. You could even lynch me in order to get rid of the possibility that I am mafia.

 

[CrimsonFist]

The only immediate vig related conclusion I see from last night's claimed actions is that it can't be Squidy. I guess I can sort of see the assumption that you could be a killing role if you didn't target and nobody died, but considering the current spread of actions, I don't really agree with it.

If you think you might be the vig though, wouldn't the natural night action to take be to target your top scum suspect? Not to take no action as you're saying Nin?

Deciding if scum would have been honest about their targets, claimed no activity, or lied about targets feels too much like WIFOM. I'd probably guess that they wouldn't both claim no activity at the very least.

 

[Sorian]

The only immediate vig related conclusion I see from last night's claimed actions is that it can't be Squidy. I guess I can sort of see the assumption that you could be a killing role if you didn't target and nobody died, but considering the current spread of actions, I don't really agree with it.

If you think you might be the vig though, wouldn't the natural night action to take be to target your top scum suspect? Not to take no action as you're saying Nin?

Deciding if scum would have been honest about their targets, claimed no activity, or lied about targets feels too much like WIFOM. I'd probably guess that they wouldn't both claim no activity at the very least.

I agree with the last paragraph at least, I only brought it up because I didn't want Burb to start putting out a false assumption that we just can't make.

As for nin, he doesn't really have the best vig track record.

Spoiler

love you nin

 

[cabot]

VOTE TALLY:

sorian (2)
squidyj 266
*splinter 269

crimsonfist (1)
sorian 299

nin1000 (1)
burbeting 300


DAY 2 ENDS:

 

[flatearthpandas]

To go into further detail, it's not out of the realm of possibility that either Crimson or FEP'S claimed their target (Crimson as second on Tyne and FEP on me) in order to make the other person targeting these people to think that they are either Quack/CPR who was countered, or the one doing countering.

Really riding those gut reads hard, eh? Scum had results as soon as game started. A scum Splinter or Ty4on could just as easily have claimed targets randomly or even posted real targets.

Anyone could be lying about anything right now and anyone could easily be scum. By deciding to act randomly we decided to limit or available information and here we are.

All we can be reasonable sure of is that Burb and Squidy are not killing doctors or weak doctors. Whatever lies scum told, their actions would not influence those results.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Well, I guess either could be cpr. So really just not quack or weak.

 

[Sorian]

How do we know they can't be weak? I only popped in for a second so I could be missing something.

 

[squidyj]

How do we know they can't be weak? I only popped in for a second so I could be missing something.

if I was weak i would have died targeting you.

 

[Sorian]

if I was weak i would have died targeting you.

Ok

 

[flatearthpandas]

How do we know they can't be weak? I only popped in for a second so I could be missing something.

I'm... not sure what i meant. Let's not discount that there may have been some genius deduction but i don't know how it worked.

I think that all we've learned is that squid can't be the quack?

 

[*Splinter]

You know who would know they aren't weak?

Scum would know they aren't weak (assuming they haven't targeted scum)

VOTE: flatearthpandas

If FEP is scum then we have 2 confirmed townies.

 

[*Splinter]

Alternatively it could be squidy + Sorian

Squidy is playing exactly like Ouro in Heist. Tunneling on a scum partner for the entire game with no interest in anything else.

I've also had "feels" about Sorian + Burb, so it's interesting that I'm not the only one who thought that. Bit of a long shot though

 

[Ty4on]

Really riding those gut reads hard, eh? Scum had results as soon as game started. A scum Splinter or Ty4on could just as easily have claimed targets randomly or even posted real targets.

Anyone could be lying about anything right now and anyone could easily be scum. By deciding to act randomly we decided to limit or available information and here we are.

All we can be reasonable sure of is that Burb and Squidy are not killing doctors or weak doctors. Whatever lies scum told, their actions would not influence those results.

We've learned somethings. It's very unlikely both killing doctors were idle and scum should've tried a kill so we probably have a second kill saved.

We only have four people targeted and of those four only two (Ty4on and Burbeting) claimed themselves to be targeting anyone. Therefore if the jailor stopped a quack/CPR they could only have stopped me or Burb. The other possibility is it was cancelled in Ty-FEP=>Burb or Splint-Crimson=>Ty. Mafia cannot stop nor can they perform that kill.

Little extra wishy washy with no kill and two people doing nothing, but the more likely it is someone had an effect last night, the more likely it is they're town and vice versa.

Usually I'd have a very townie person or group (confirmed killer or killer+saver) and if I'm lucky some very scummy ones (two people on a person who was NKd). Nothing super concrete now though.

 

[Ty4on]

I'm tempted to vote for Sorian or Nin for literally not doing anything last night. WIFOMing whether or not scum would do that.

People targeted are slightly more likely to be town because one could have been the saved person that was attempted NKd (I'm assuming no hydro cannon). Jailing the killer is ofc possibly, but less likely because there's only one jailor, but several (including the jailor) protectors. People targeting are slightly more likely to be town because they could've stopped the NK.
The double targeters I feel townie about because that's probably where the vig/CPR were stopped, that's already two confirmed town (protector plus killer) if the vig was active in one of them.

 

[Ty4on]

You know who would know they aren't weak?

Scum would know they aren't weak (assuming they haven't targeted scum)

VOTE: flatearthpandas

If FEP is scum then we have 2 confirmed townies.

I can't think of any hypothetical situation where we actually learn something from the weak doc. They're so hard to identify even after more nights and if we claim all actions we can't stop the NK.

 

[*Splinter]

I can't think of any hypothetical situation where we actually learn something from the weak doc. They're so hard to identify even after more nights and if we claim all actions we can't stop the NK.

I don't disagree, but I don't see how that is relevant?

Scum would know who the weak doc is if someone targeted scum and is still alive. I'm accusing FEP of letting that info slip.

 

[*Splinter]

Actually I might have had some logic backwards in there...

The two people targeting unique targets would be more likely town but not confirmed. The two unqiue targets would contain at least 1 scum? I think? (That's all assuming fep is scum and did indeed let slip).

They can't both be scum though (if fep is) so maybe this makes no sense.

Huh

 

[CrimsonFist]

Yeah, if that was a slip, and FEP overlooked the possibility of Burb being jailed/protected, wouldn't that make Sorian, Nin and FEP all scum? That should be the only way he'd know that they weren't weak, and that doesn't work out.

 

[Ty4on]

I don't disagree, but I don't see how that is relevant?

Scum would know who the weak doc is if someone targeted scum and is still alive. I'm accusing FEP of letting that info slip.

I generalize.

Spoiler

And haven't been reading the conversation closely >.>

------------------------

It is much easier with NKs. Then you can confirm killer and two people on a dead person means one is almost confirmed scum/naive.

One jailor related thing is with two people on Burb it's more likely one of them was a jailor.
On a related note. Who was the NK target that was protected? Neither me, Burb, Sorian nor Nin seem like very likely NK targets. *Splinter seems like the most likely being town read so much. That could make a jailing of the killing scum more likely.

------------------------

Why did you target Sorian, squidyj? I haven't seen you reply to this.

 

[flatearthpandas]

I don't disagree, but I don't see how that is relevant?

Scum would know who the weak doc is if someone targeted scum and is still alive. I'm accusing FEP of letting that info slip.

Not unexpected but not accurate. The track i was on was basically just what information is irrelevant to scum actions and misinformation. While weak doctors are unaffected in this way, obviously didn't think through it properly. Especially with burb since having two people on him means that he could have been blocked by jailor.

As had been pointed out, if this was a scum slip it would mean that i inadvertently revealed a scum team larger than what we actually have in the game, outing myself, sorian, and nin. I think the honest mistake explanation should be acceptable.

Anywho, for now,
Vote: Burbeting

I've got weird feelings from Burb still. Weird conclusions. I obviously had my own weird conclusions. Not much to say here. It isn't omgus, it honestly wasn't yesterday either, I just have a sense of ill intention. I am going to try and be around for day end today so this is open to change. With no information to go on, hopefully we get chatty.

I targeted burb yesterday hoping i was a killing role and I'll probably be doing the same tonight assuming we're both still around.

 

[Sorian]

Not unexpected but not accurate. The track i was on was basically just what information is irrelevant to scum actions and misinformation. While weak doctors are unaffected in this way, obviously didn't think through it properly. Especially with burb since having two people on him means that he could have been blocked by jailor.

As had been pointed out, if this was a scum slip it would mean that i inadvertently revealed a scum team larger than what we actually have in the game, outing myself, sorian, and nin. I think the honest mistake explanation should be acceptable.

Anywho, for now,
Vote: Burbeting

I've got weird feelings from Burb still. Weird conclusions. I obviously had my own weird conclusions. Not much to say here. It isn't omgus, it honestly wasn't yesterday either, I just have a sense of ill intention. I am going to try and be around for day end today so this is open to change. With no information to go on, hopefully we get chatty.

I targeted burb yesterday hoping i was a killing role and I'll probably be doing the same tonight assuming we're both still around.

What a weird way to phrase that. Anyway,I'm still fine with Crimson and squidy for my vote. Crimson is still doing the same wallflower routine and, at this point, has gone out of his way to ignore questions on why he was so inactive yesterday (and basically has the same inactivity today). squidy is tunneling and he only does that when he is running a plan of some sort, he's also given no actual reason for his vote on me other than (if we let him live, town will have a bad time!) and then something about how I'm not following his wonky logic.

I've debated if Splinter is at fault or even Ty4on for that shit vote yesterday but there isn't anything there, the nurse claim came a little too late and the only active and who wasn't on a post restriction timer appeared to be me and I had no way to use my vote to save him so meh.

 

[Ty4on]

I've debated if Splinter is at fault or even Ty4on for that shit vote yesterday but there isn't anything there, the nurse claim came a little too late and the only active and who wasn't on a post restriction timer appeared to be me and I had no way to use my vote to save him so meh.

I forgot to reply to yesterday's vote, but it was a gut reaction to Hobo suddenly putting a vote down.

 

[Ty4on]

What a weird way to phrase that. Anyway,I'm still fine with Crimson and squidy for my vote. Crimson is still doing the same wallflower routine and, at this point, has gone out of his way to ignore questions on why he was so inactive yesterday (and basically has the same inactivity today). squidy is tunneling and he only does that when he is running a plan of some sort, he's also given no actual reason for his vote on me other than (if we let him live, town will have a bad time!) and then something about how I'm not following his wonky logic.

Squidyj wise I don't think you're a bad vote.

I'm curious though of your reaction to FEP. Why didn't you consider voting for him?