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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

W

WadiumArcadium

Member
Decent episode. The monster was a bit disappointing but the Doctor's constant put-downs made up for it.

I thought I recognised Lucius.

bala-tik.jpg


"Tell that to Kanjiklub."
 
R

Razmos

Member
That episode was okay. I liked the idea but it had a few silly parts, and the actors they got playing the barbarians and the soldiers just seemed like fresh put of acting school graduates. I'm glad they actually went somewhere with all of them being so young because it was bugging me.

The next episode looks amazing.

My theory:
The Doctor gets Missy to take his place in an adventure to test how far she's come. Missy struggles to do the right thing and ends up making things worse by accident. The Doctor, seeing the Cyberman threat steps in to help but ends up in danger, Missy saves him and truly becomes good, but in the process gets fatally injured and regenerates into John Simm's master on screen, undergoing a complete personality change and reverting back to being evil.

Friendship drives the Doctor into the rashest decision of his life. Trapped on a giant spaceship, caught in the event horizon of a black hole, he witnesses the death of someone he is pledged to protect.
Click to expand...
The person the Doctor pledged to protect is Missy
 
S

SlipperyFishes

Banned
Razmos said:
That episode was okay. I liked the idea but it had a few silly parts, and the actors they got playing the barbarians and the soldiers just seemed like fresh put of acting school graduates. I'm glad they actually went somewhere with all of them being so young because it was bugging me.

The next episode looks amazing.

My theory:
The Doctor gets Missy to take his place in an adventure to test how far she's come. Missy struggles to do the right thing and ends up making things worse by accident. The Doctor, seeing the Cyberman threat steps in to help but ends up in danger, Missy saves him and truly becomes good, but in the process gets fatally injured and regenerates into John Simm's master on screen, undergoing a complete personality change and reverting back to being evil.


The person the Doctor pledged to protect is Missy
Click to expand...
But that wouldn't make a lot of sense.

We haven't seen a time lord regenerate back into a previous version and it went from Jacobi to Simm.

My theory

Simms Master never died and is behind the Mondosian threat. Missy stops him, Simm regenerates into Missy and Missy regenerates into someone else.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Just thinking that tonight kinda feels like the end of an era- the last properly standalone episode of the Moffat era; his Planet of the Dead, if you like.

Feeling a bit melancholy, I'll be honest.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
That was an I story, but spoiled by bad editing and some horrible cheese.

The battle at the end was just out of nowhere. I'd have lined a tiny bit more setup. I know he mentioned the crystal but then suddenly that sepcene just happens and it felt disjointed to me.

So they've been doing this for generations, but they mess up one time - ok. Yet for some reason their act of bravery is why crows go 'caw'? Puhlease.

And why was the doctor so pushy? You'd think he'd be happy the scared little humans were stepping up. That seemed odd to me.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Ade said:
I still don't see Missy just happening to regenerate backwards. There's go to be more to it than that...
Click to expand...

Well, if I'm not mistaken, Moffat talked about this being the first time two Masters have interacted, so I would think Missy and The Master will interact. That leads me to believe not some kind of reverse-regeneration.

More likely this is - allegedly at least - the last Michelle Gomez story and it's time for her to "die" an ambiguous death. However Simm returns, I'm sure it's secondary to that. SlipperyFishes idea tracks with what Moffat has done in his time as showrunner. He made a point of filling in the missing regeneration for The Doctor and showing both of River's.
 
A

Ade

Member
Sheroking said:
Well, if I'm not mistaken, Moffat talked about this being the first time two Masters have interacted, so I would think Missy and The Master will interact. That leads me to believe not some kind of reverse-regeneration.

More likely this is - allegedly at least - the last Michelle Gomez story and it's time for her to "die" an ambiguous death. However Simm returns, I'm sure it's secondary to that. SlipperyFishes idea tracks with what Moffat has done in his time as showrunner. He made a point of filling in the missing regeneration for The Doctor and showing both of River's.
Click to expand...

Yup; I don't disagree. My lack of quote doesn't help, but it was Razmos theory i wasn't buying
 
S

Sheroking

Member
So.... theories on the fake-out regeneration we've seen in the trailers?

We know Capaldi's doing the Christmas special. Unless that's all been a massive fake-out and they're secretly shooting new Doctor stuff about now, similar to Clara's intro in 7x01, he ain't going to regenerate now.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
One thing that really made me think it's a reverse regeneration was Simm asking for a kiss. Sure could just be there for the comedy value but that does kind of imply that he's already been Missy at that point.
 
H

hamchan

Member
Doctor telling Missy "You never learned to hear the music".

She's had some crazy drumming in her head most of her life!

Anyways that sure was an episode I'll never think about again. The Doctor and Bill felt extra preachy this episode for some reason.

Next week seems pretty damn fun though.
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
Best episode of the Moffat era, I'd say.

That was really something. The whole episode was just this amazing piece of lyrical science fiction, full of poetry and wonder. The characters were wonderful, and the commentary was sharp. "You sound like children".

I feel pretty comfortable right now as putting this as probably the biggest highlight of the past seven years for Doctor Who. I keep thinking of more and more things about it that I loved. There's a lot to unpack.
 
D

Dryk

Member
I've always wanted a series of stories where the Doctor and the Master travel together. The Doctor grappling with the difficulty of saving the day while keeping the Master out of trouble, and not being able to bring himself to stop traveling together given their connection.

I never thought we'd actually get this close on screen though
 
K

kitsunelaine

Banned
Spectromixer said:
I don't see Missy regenerating back into Simm. Moffat likes to tie up loose ends so he'll regenerate into her.
Click to expand...

Yup. And we'll probably have a new actor playing the Master when/if they reappear in a couple years. Missy regenerating back into Simm would just feel like an insult, imo. Fanwank specifically for the people who didn't like her instead of just fanwank in general, which is more Moffat's style.
 
D

Davide

Member
Dryk said:
I've always wanted a series of stories where the Doctor and the Master travel together. The Doctor grappling with the difficulty of saving the day while keeping the Master out of trouble, and not being able to bring himself to stop traveling together given their connection.

I never thought we'd actually get this close on screen though
Click to expand...

I was actually hoping Missy would be the companion for the whole season.

It seems two huge for the final two episodes but is Moffat really just going to leave Gallifrey alone now?
 
P

PaulloDEC

Member
Dryk said:
I've always wanted a series of stories where the Doctor and the Master travel together. The Doctor grappling with the difficulty of saving the day while keeping the Master out of trouble, and not being able to bring himself to stop traveling together given their connection.

I never thought we'd actually get this close on screen though
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, if it weren't for the new series coming along we'd likely have gotten exactly that.

w3xc.jpg
Click to expand...
 
F

Freeza Under The Shower

Member
Razmos said:
That episode was okay. I liked the idea but it had a few silly parts, and the actors they got playing the barbarians and the soldiers just seemed like fresh put of acting school graduates. I'm glad they actually went somewhere with all of them being so young because it was bugging me.

The next episode looks amazing.

My theory:
The Doctor gets Missy to take his place in an adventure to test how far she's come. Missy struggles to do the right thing and ends up making things worse by accident. The Doctor, seeing the Cyberman threat steps in to help but ends up in danger, Missy saves him and truly becomes good, but in the process gets fatally injured and regenerates into John Simm's master on screen, undergoing a complete personality change and reverting back to being evil.


The person the Doctor pledged to protect is Missy
Click to expand...

SlipperyFishes said:
My theory

Simms Master never died and is behind the Mondosian threat. Missy stops him, Simm regenerates into Missy and Missy regenerates into someone else.
Click to expand...

This is probably correct.
In a straight dichotomy, the point of turning one character into its opposite is to have them meet their opposite as obstacle. We never did get to find out how Simms became Missy in the first place, so this is tying off that thread, most likely.
It would also conveniently prevent two Masters from co-existing, since Missy is already his future exponent anyway.

The problem of course, is that if Simms as an enemy dies (permanently), Missy goes too. Looking at that poster, the Doctor's obstacle is probably 'save an enemy, kill a friend'. Wanna bet Simms kills Missy? Though the other way around would be more impactful, so Missy 'kills' Simms it is.

also, it's not that it wouldn't make sense: "it was all a dream" makes perfect sense, it's just tired and uninteresting. Playing it without
opposition
wouldn't be as interesting.

I feared this episode wouldn't be very good at the start, but it had a fair amount of charm to it, making it better than it typically should have been.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
It would be a pretty Moffit-y twist if Missy was actually a regeneration that came before Simms master.


Would get them out of explaining how he / she escaped from Gallifrey after The End of Time too.
 
D

Davide

Member
funkystudent said:
It would be a pretty Moffit-y twist if Missy was actually a regeneration that came before Simms master.


Would get them out of explaining how he / she escaped from Gallifrey after The End of Time too.
Click to expand...
Could be cool except there's the Jacobi Master who comes before Simms who now apparently lived during the Time War.
 
G

GodParticle

Member
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Best episode of the Moffat era, I'd say.

That was really something. The whole episode was just this amazing piece of lyrical science fiction, full of poetry and wonder. The characters were wonderful, and the commentary was sharp. "You sound like children".

I feel pretty comfortable right now as putting this as probably the biggest highlight of the past seven years for Doctor Who. I keep thinking of more and more things about it that I loved. There's a lot to unpack.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Doctor Who doesn't get any better than that
 
D

Davide

Member
Missed a couple episodes because my PVR didn't record them but my ranking of Capaldi's tenure now that it's almost done...

1. 9.11 Heaven Sent - Maybe the best episode of Doctor Who and one that is definitely Moffat in the best possible way.
2. 9.01 The Magician's Apprentice - So much about this episode works. The Doctor's introduction, Davros.
3. 8.04 Listen - Great for obvious reasons.
4. 9.02 The Witch's Familiar - Basically tied with the above two. Doctor Who at its best.
5. 8.08 Mummy on the Orient Express - A good case and a good character focus on the Doctor and Clara's relationship.
6. 8.01 Deep Breath - Still a great episode and an opening to Capaldi's Doctor which may have shown more promise than has been lived up to.
7. 9.12 Hell Bent - Flawed but epic with some great moments.
8. 8.11 Dark Water
9. 9.10 Face the Raven
10. 8.12 Death in Heaven
11. 9.08 The Zygon Inversion - Suspension of belief required often but a good follow up to Day of the Doctor.
12. 10.06: Extremis - Flawed but the most ambitious and interesting episode of S10.
13. 9.04 Before the Flood
14. 8.02 Into the Dalek - This episode gets a lot of hate but I really like it.
15. 8.07 Kill the Moon
16. 10.03: Thin Ice
17. 9.05 The Girl Who Died
18. 9.06 The Woman Who Lived
19. 8.06 The Caretaker
20. 8.09 Flatline
21. 9.00 Last Christmas - Done well enough but kind of dull.
22. 9.07 The Zygon Invasion - A good cliffhanger.
23. 10.09: Empress of Mars - OK
24. 8.05 Time Heist
25. 10.05: Oxygen - eh
26. 10.02: Smile
27. 9.03 Under the Lake
28. 8.03 Robot of Sherwood
29. 10.07: The Pyramid at the End of the World
30. 10.01: The Pilot - The worse first companion episode of New Who.
31. 8.10 In the Forest of the Night
32. 10.00: The Return of Doctor Mysterio - So bad.
33. 9.09 Sleep No More - Unwatchable crap
 
C

ClivePwned

Member
The Doctor/Master shipping here is, er, well, uh...

Rather like that WWII gap year where Roosevelt and Hitler took time off from the war and went backpacking together through Thailand.

Trigger warnings to people from Traken. Even if you've only seen his antics in the new series, the Master is pretty heineous.

Jocularity aside, it wasn't a terrible episode, but it wasn't really that good either. I found it hard to pay attentionand not look at my phone instead. Next week's looks ace (though if John Simm or the Cyberman don't show until the cliffhanger, I'm going to throw my action figures at the screen.
 
D

devilhawk

Member
To be honest I was far more entertained with the wiki articles on the ninth legion and roman Britain than this episode. One of the weakest episodes in recent memory.
 
T

tomtom94

Member
I feel like I will appreciate this episode more on a rewatch as there's so much to unpack in there. I do think the crow thing was a little bit silly and I hope this is an end to the whole "Doctor speaking to animals" thing that was sparked by Closing Time.

I assume by "scenario" next week's episode is going back to Extremis.
 
P

paradox121

Member
This was probably an objectively better episode than last week but I ended up enjoying it less. In part that was because the episode is so damn dark at times I could barely make out what was happening. But also the pacing seemed deathly slow at certain points, and having the episode end about four times too many felt very weird.

I did like the stuff about everyone basically being children and slaughtering each other aimlessly. And I was glad that finally someone brought up the fact that its not just the companions who get translated by the TARDIS, everyone else does too. It's always baffled me that characters don't question why they can suddenly understand each other.

Next week looks great though. My new theory is that Simm Master is in league with the Cybermen in the hopes of using them somehow during the Time War. The Doctor and crew gets involved, Missy realises this is her chance to atone, and ends up causing Simm to regenerate into herself.
 
F

forgeforsaken

Member
Wasn't a fan of the latest episode. There's an interesting idea at its core, but it suffered in the execution and wasn't fully developed. There's also the issue of the show constantly raising the stakes, really the threat in this could have been a lot smaller and more localized and the story would have worked better, the whole universe didn't need to be at risk, and frankly it didn't make any sense that it was. The monster, itself, didn't really work and wasn't really thought through. Why is it only going after people, why isn't it sucking the sunlight out of all the plants? Why does it even need to do that as opposed to just basking in the sun? Also not sure how the universe is at stake if certain wavelengths of light are poison to it... But the idea of generations of people fighting the same monster in minute long battles to hold it off due to time moving at a different pace is a neat idea, even if the math in the show doesn't exactly add up.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
paradox121 said:
This was probably an objectively better episode than last week but I ended up enjoying it less. In part that was because the episode is so damn dark at times I could barely make out what was happening. But also the pacing seemed deathly slow at certain points, and having the episode end about four times too many felt very weird.

I did like the stuff about everyone basically being children and slaughtering each other aimlessly. And I was glad that finally someone brought up the fact that its not just the companions who get translated by the TARDIS, everyone else does too. It's always baffled me that characters don't question why they can suddenly understand each other.

Next week looks great though. My new theory is that Simm Master is in league with the Cybermen in the hopes of using them somehow during the Time War. The Doctor and crew gets involved, Missy realises this is her chance to atone, and ends up causing Simm to regenerate into herself.
Click to expand...

I'm figuring that part is unlikely since Missy is being written out in this Series finale. I'm guessing she either becomes Simm or dies again, possibly to return as a different actor one day.
 
LordRaptor

LordRaptor

Member
I know theres all sorts of time travel related hand wave fuckery with Doctors meeting other Doctors and not remembering exactly how things happened, but I sort of feel the Master would remember killing his future self / being killed by a past self
 
O

OmegaFax

Member
Missy probably knows what's happening because she's experienced it before. We never see Simm's Master regenerate so we don't know the circumstances of how he became Missy.

You can take it with a grain of salt but when Missy and the Doctor first meet and she clues him in on who she really is, she says that the Doctor left her for dead.
 
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