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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons

Guri

Member
Well technically the Doctor has just been born. They went with the theory that every time you use a teleporter you 'die', but your memories/personality/dna/etc gets copied and built into a new form in a new location. So that means that the Doctor we saw last week is completely dead, and the Doctor we had at the end of this episode and next week has just been born. (I think that theory about the way teleporters work comes from Star Trek, but I'm not completely sure. It's fun because it annoys the fanbase, because it's conceptually interesting, and because it offers a very dark view on the nature of identity and death).

There are lots of times where the Doctor used teleporters in the past as well, so we can assume that he 'died' all those times as well.

But yeah, it will probably give you more peace of mind to think of him as not actually having aged millions of years during this episode. The 'current' Doctor just has the memories of one 'trip' in that castle, he doesn't remember all the versions of him that died because technically that never happened to him. Not that version of him at least.

His memories are 2000 years old, his current body is 2000 years old (well his body is younger, but let's not go there).

Yeah, that's what I figured. I can't imagine a Time Lord being a billion years old. Even if he is a Time Lord, haha.
 

Razmos

Member
I thought the Veil was a pretty creepy monster. The Doctor's explanation of it being a memory from his childhood of an old woman who died who was just draped in veils and left to rot, it was just a very creepy image.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
The copies thing reminds me of a few other series, but those are spoilers.

In any case, the episode was pretty good.
 

Rymuth

Member
As someone who hates flies, this episode was pure hell for me.

Moffat is sooo~~oo good when it comes to these types of episodes.
 
Just saw it .
This was the BEST Capaldi performance as a doctor

PERIOD.

It's in my top 10 who episodes now.

It's that'sweird after how bad ( for me ) this season of who was.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
You know what I just realized Heaven Sent reminded me of, in a strange sort of way? The ending to the Dark Tower, but done right.

EDIT: You know, the more I think about it the more I want to add Heaven Sent to my Top Tier/Perfect episodes of NewWho alongside Moffat's Blink. Heaven Sent, and the Empty Child/the Doctor Dances; Russell T Davies' Midnight; Paul Cornell's Human Nature / The Family of Blood; and Neil Gaiman's The Doctor's Wife. These episodes are just fantastic, highlights of the show.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
So, at some stage the Doctor in one of his incarnations took his clothes off, arranged them by the fire, and zapped himself naked and shivering in the teleporter room, right?

Guess that scene got deleted as pre-watershed.
 

Johndoey

Banned
Get Supermassive to make a Doctor Who game. Or a team willing to make an old school point n' click.

Why not Dontnod Doctor? They successfully worked with time travel story and mechanics already.

Life is Strange is so poor I can't fathom why they'd be a good choice.
 
Good episode, though they went a little overboard on the quick cuts editing at the end. There are more elegant ways of doing that without annoying the viewer into "we get it, god!". Other than that the notion of the doctor being alone for an eternity was really good, as was the spin on the idea of a testament / (last) confession. :)

The moment he broke out I knew it was Gallifrey though. I mentioned it a few weeks ago as something that would symmetrically be likely, and here we are. Wonder how it's going to relate to Skaro though.
 

TheJoRu

Member
Can't stress enough how good the direction was this episode. The script was excellent, but I'm inclined to think the direction was even more impressive. To make that story this visually cohesive, nailing a truly unique tone and atmosphere all throughout, and just as Rachel Talalay did last year, brought out the very best acting performance(s). It was so good.

I don't think it's my favourite Doctor Who-episode ever, there are one or two others I cherish more, but it's definitely the most accomplished. Every single aspect was executed with such high quality.
 
Worth pointing out if you look closely at the trailers for next week that the character we know to be 'The President'
Is wearing a metal gauntlet that at least appears to be the same as the one Dalton wore in The End of Time. He also has the same Staff. Question is, do these come with the office of the President now, or IS he Rassilon? They seem to have worked a bit to hide the glove in the promo shots but it is just barely visible on his right hand if you look very carefully.
 

Broken Joystick

At least you can talk. Who are you?
Worth pointing out if you look closely at the trailers for next week that the character we know to be 'The President'
Is wearing a metal gauntlet that at least appears to be the same as the one Dalton wore in The End of Time. He also has the same Staff. Question is, do these come with the office of the President now, or IS he Rassilon? They seem to have worked a bit to hide the glove in the promo shots but it is just barely visible on his right hand if you look very carefully.

Good catch.
 
Worth pointing out if you look closely at the trailers for next week that the character we know to be 'The President'
Is wearing a metal gauntlet that at least appears to be the same as the one Dalton wore in The End of Time. He also has the same Staff. Question is, do these come with the office of the President now, or IS he Rassilon? They seem to have worked a bit to hide the glove in the promo shots but it is just barely visible on his right hand if you look very carefully.

That's interesting.
The General didn't seem to give a single fuck about the High Council in Day of the Doctor, so I wonder if there'll be tension there if it is Rassilon.

Also can I say how much of a hard motherfucker Ken Bones looks in that Time Lord get-up. Normally the costumes are TERRRRIIIIBBBLLLEEE but he got off super lucky.
 
So why didn't the shovel reset? He encounters it and picks it up remarking that he hates gardeners but the hallway and room should have reset putting the shovel back in the grave site.
 

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
This episode was fucking amazing. Holy shit. Beautifully shot and great music too.

I personally loved how the whole thing was like a video game in the best way possible. Like the Doctor in a mix of Device 6 + Dark Souls.
 

Johndoey

Banned
This episode was fucking amazing. Holy shit. Beautifully shot and great music too.

I personally loved how the whole thing was like a video game in the best way possible. Like the Doctor in a mix of Device 6 + Dark Souls.

Its more Swapper or Planescape than Souls.
 
Finally got a chance to watch last night's episode. Fucking incredible piece of television.

Peter's performance was brilliant, he deserves a reward.

Murray Gold's score was likewise brilliant. Very different to what came before and it works very well.

Steven's script was incredible, and showcases not only he works well under pressure, but he ONLY works well under pressure. Definitely his best script since the 50th.

And for that Gallifrey twist, I only have to say wow. I knew it was coming, but having finally arrive, feels incredibly satisfying!

I CANNOT wait for next week, though I already know the Hybrid trickery-wickery is going to be bullshit and a satisfying explanation to literally no-one.
 

hamchan

Member
Good call on The Swapper. I had DS in my mind from reading the thread haha.

Well, the whole architecture of the place looking exactly out of a Souls game, all the resetting of rooms, even the constant dying over and over in a struggle to make it through the white fog (or in this case white rock) gate.

I think your Souls comparison is spot on.
 

Kurdel

Banned
Praise Moffat, truly one of the greatest episodes.

There was an instance of the Doctor mourning Clara for 2 billion years.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
I had the chance to watch it and rewatch it, and after letting it marinate I have something to say......

HEAVEN SENT IS EASILY ONE OF THE BEST DOCTOR WHO EPISODES EVER.

If you think about it, purely on a thematic level. This episode was a deep deep psychological analysis on how the doctor deals with grief, and it explores his personal dynamic with the companions. When he thinks and analyzes the situation, he puts himself in the Tardis and Clara plays out as his conscience that challenges his cold logic.

The end goal of the Time Lords was to get information out of the doctor, to interrogate him. So you can argue that the whole thing about dying and being returned back to life was basically all in his head. One can argue effectively that the doctor himself didn't die, but this machine played with his unconscious to make him think he is dying to get information from him.

I mean, you could easily write an essay about it, since it works on many many levels.

Absolutely brilliant, this is one episode that gets better and better with each rewatch.
 

Kevin

Member
I wish the rest of the season could have been this great. Just when I thought Moffat couldn't write a good story/episode anymore he managed to surprise me one more time.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
I wish the rest of the season could have been this great. Just when I thought Moffat couldn't write a good story/episode anymore he managed to surprise me one more time.
Yeah, I've kinda felt that Capaldi's amazing Doctor has been wasted on mediocre storytelling. I've been disappointed way more often than not with the last couple of seasons. This episode, however, was incredible. Hopefully Hell Bent can stick the landing, which is something that I feel the lack of is what has dragged things down for me.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
I wish the rest of the season could have been this great. Just when I thought Moffat couldn't write a good story/episode anymore he managed to surprise me one more time.

When I was watching it, I knew it was an instant classic.

When I watched it again, my eyes opened up and I really got to appreciate how deep and amazingly well written this episode is.

Oh yeah, and Peter Capaldi is now my favorite doctor of all time. His amazing acting this episode has cemented himself as my favorite doctor. I don't think any of the previous doctors could have pulled what Capaldi did this episode. Bravo!!
 

draetenth

Member
I didn't really care for this episode at all, probably one of my least favorite Dr. Who episodes. I'm not really a fan Groundhog Day/repeating day kind of things.
 

Platy

Member
So, do you think the "last doctor" understood what was happening ?

Also ... was he inside his confession dial something ? This means he was the one who created the castle ?

This is probably the second most conceptually horrifying episode of Doctor Who i've seen.
I hate that type of regeneration/teleportation so creepy.

...second ? Which was the first ?
 

Fireblend

Banned
Great episode. I loved everything about it, and even though I expected it from the finale preview blurb, him being back in Gallifrey and doing the "long way around" callback brought the hype. God-tier episode.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
I didn't really care for this episode at all, probably one of my least favorite Dr. Who episodes. I'm not really a fan Groundhog Day/repeating day kind of things.
I feel like this is an odd complaint. Yes, it turns out to be a time loop (sort of), but that's not revealed until the final segment and is handled within a couple of minutes. It's not like we were subjected to events repeating over the course of the episode.
 
I wish the rest of the season could have been this great. Just when I thought Moffat couldn't write a good story/episode anymore he managed to surprise me one more time.

But he didn't, as a story it is broken and doesn't work. It's everything else in the episode that makes it decent.
 

Johndoey

Banned
So, do you think the "last doctor" understood what was happening ?

Also ... was he inside his confession dial something ? This means he was the one who created the castle ?



...second ? Which was the first ?

Midnight still creeps me out more.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Anyone else think the "bird" reference had some double meaning in that it was meant to also tell him he was going to have to face his own raven, so to speak?
 
I didn't really care for this episode at all, probably one of my least favorite Dr. Who episodes. I'm not really a fan Groundhog Day/repeating day kind of things.

The thing is, that's not really what the story is about. I mean, it is, but that's not all it's about. It's about personal suffering, the trap that lies and fear put someone in, the tangible place in the pit of someone's soul that they allow themselves to reside when dealing with irrevocable loss, never living but instead dying a million deaths until they allow themselves to be free again. For once a gimmick episode from Moffat felt like the gimmick was just the bone the meat was attached to, and not the whole main course. Much of the credit is certainly not in the writing but in the whole production and especially Capaldi's performance. For what he had to work with and what was asked of him, he was practically flawless.

This performance retroactively makes episodes where he's forced to deal with dialog about speaking baby feel even worse. The difference in how convincing he's been as the Doctor from last season to this is like night and day for me.
 
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