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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons

thefil

Member
Finished the [Big Finish audio drama] Chimes of Midnight just now. What a great serial! The mystery was cool. I loved how the characters acted as they slowly became aware of what Edward Grove was doing. I think it was also a splendid way of making a companion an important part of the story without grandstanding on importance. I do wonder if this is now the end of Charley's time problems, or if we will see more of it.

I really feel as though I don't have the critical vocabulary to express how much I like this episode.

Spending a fortune this week taking my girlfriends mother out to dinners, so I think I will have to hold off on any more episode purchases until pay day. :(

*edit* oof, doubly true now that I realize I'm few serials away from the 12.99 price point...
 

munchie64

Member
That episode was indeed amazing.
Great performance backed up by a solid script. The score was great, the CG and cinematography worked well and the the monster was pretty fun too. I liked the twist even if I kinda saw it coming and the ending sold it all brilliantly.
Yeah, just really, really good. Probably top 10 new Who
 

Razmos

Member
Anyone else think the "bird" reference had some double meaning in that it was meant to also tell him he was going to have to face his own raven, so to speak?
Nah, "Bird" was just a message he left for himself to remind him on the story of the bird and the diamond mountain.

On its own, the "Bird" doesn't make sense, until he gets to room 12 and sees the wall, at which point he says "Bird" and figures it out, this leads to him working out what is happening "I can't keep doing this, I remember every time, and you are still not here". So he chips away at the wall and then sets himself up to do it all over again, settling in for the long way around.

I don't think it has anything to do with the raven, just a coincidence I guess.
 
I wouldn't be averse to purchasing a score solely for this episode, honestly. The music really hasn't stood out for me much this season, but this episode? Some really good work.
 

Boem

Member
Peter Jackson confirms he's directing an episode of Doctor Who!

He's a very fun video where he confirms it, with a cameo by Capaldi (as the Doctor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6agKVUCTM

Some pretty funny lines in that video.

This is pretty big guys. I'm not the biggest Peter Jackson fan (especially not Hobbit, but I was never big into LOTR either), but I really like the guy as a person, and it'd give us a very interesting episode at the very least.
 
Peter Jackson confirms he's directing an episode of Doctor Who!

He's a very fun video where he confirms it, with a cameo by Capaldi (as the Doctor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6agKVUCTM

Some pretty funny lines in that video.

This is pretty big guys. I'm not the biggest Peter Jackson fan (especially not Hobbit, but I was never big into LOTR either), but I really like the guy as a person, and it'd give us a very interesting episode at the very least.
Fantastic. I recently came to the conclusion The Hobbit was the fault of WB, so looking forward to this.
 

Bluth54

Member
Peter Jackson confirms he's directing an episode of Doctor Who!

He's a very fun video where he confirms it, with a cameo by Capaldi (as the Doctor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6agKVUCTM

Some pretty funny lines in that video.

This is pretty big guys. I'm not the biggest Peter Jackson fan (especially not Hobbit, but I was never big into LOTR either), but I really like the guy as a person, and it'd give us a very interesting episode at the very least.

Awww yes.
 

Slowdive

Banned
Peter Jackson confirms he's directing an episode of Doctor Who!

He's a very fun video where he confirms it, with a cameo by Capaldi (as the Doctor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6agKVUCTM

Some pretty funny lines in that video.

This is pretty big guys. I'm not the biggest Peter Jackson fan (especially not Hobbit, but I was never big into LOTR either), but I really like the guy as a person, and it'd give us a very interesting episode at the very least.

Yesss.
 

hamchan

Member
Ha the last joke did make me laugh. Anyways pretty good that Jackson is directing an ep. Just needs a decent script to back him up.
 

Jintor

Member
i don't really have much interest in watching right now but god damn this thread's title cracks me up every time i see it
 

mclem

Member
Peter Jackson confirms he's directing an episode of Doctor Who!

He's a very fun video where he confirms it, with a cameo by Capaldi (as the Doctor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6agKVUCTM

Some pretty funny lines in that video.

This is pretty big guys. I'm not the biggest Peter Jackson fan (especially not Hobbit, but I was never big into LOTR either), but I really like the guy as a person, and it'd give us a very interesting episode at the very least.

His thought processes were clearly "I'd better find out what caused my Radagast to bugger off"

Didn't he say he'd do it for a Dalek? I wonder if that was a delivery?
 

Boem

Member
His thought processes were clearly "I'd better find out what caused my Radagast to bugger off"

Didn't he say he'd do it for a Dalek? I wonder if that was a delivery?

Yeah, he talked about wanting to do Doctor Who a couple of years ago, the BBC responded by saying that they would obviously love to have him but that he was way out of their price range, and then Jackson responded by saying he'd do it for free if he got his own Dalek. I figured that Dalek at the end is his now.

They probably got together to discuss the deal and timing etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the timing of when we're going to get new episodes is going to depend in part on Jackson's availability. He's the kind of director that you put on either an opener or a finale. Or a standalone special, if that's what ends up happening.
 

doop_

Banned
So far this season in my opinion has been pretty meh, i do not think the two parters helped with the exception of the fisher king stories. i think i enjoyed series 8 more, it felt more diverse and fun.
 
Peter Jackson confirms he's directing an episode of Doctor Who!

He's a very fun video where he confirms it, with a cameo by Capaldi (as the Doctor):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6agKVUCTM

Some pretty funny lines in that video.

This is pretty big guys. I'm not the biggest Peter Jackson fan (especially not Hobbit, but I was never big into LOTR either), but I really like the guy as a person, and it'd give us a very interesting episode at the very least.

Just the one and not 3?

This is pretty damn cool. Can't wait for it to happen.

I didn't even notice Capaldi enter the room in that video lol. Well, I seen someone but didn't realise it was him until he stopped to stare at Jackson. Aw man I love Capaldi so much as The Doctor.
 
Finished the [Big Finish audio drama] Chimes of Midnight just now. What a great serial! The mystery was cool. I loved how the characters acted as they slowly became aware of what Edward Grove was doing. I think it was also a splendid way of making a companion an important part of the story without grandstanding on importance. I do wonder if this is now the end of Charley's time problems, or if we will see more of it.

I really feel as though I don't have the critical vocabulary to express how much I like this episode.

Spending a fortune this week taking my girlfriends mother out to dinners, so I think I will have to hold off on any more episode purchases until pay day. :(

*edit* oof, doubly true now that I realize I'm few serials away from the 12.99 price point...

Chimes of Midnight may very well be the best BF audio ever IMO. It is without a doubt the best Christmas special Doctor Who has ever done, and it wasn't even a Christmas special. It works on a ton of levels, and I think it was the first one that really made me understand how effective the audio format could be. So very good.
 

8bit

Knows the Score
Yeah, he talked about wanting to do Doctor Who a couple of years ago, the BBC responded by saying that they would obviously love to have him but that he was way out of their price range, and then Jackson responded by saying he'd do it for free if he got his own Dalek. I figured that Dalek at the end is his now.

They probably got together to discuss the deal and timing etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the timing of when we're going to get new episodes is going to depend in part on Jackson's availability. He's the kind of director that you put on either an opener or a finale. Or a standalone special, if that's what ends up happening.

Christmas Special 2016, directed by Peter Jackson. Series 10 Opener.
 
This series has just been fantastic start to finish.

Last series had a few episodes I wasn't happy with, but dear lord does this season make up for it. Fantastic writing, acting and direction. This latest episode was so good. Loved it.
 
Insane episode, loved it.

Regarding the finale, this looks spooky as hell:

yikeswnsfd.gif




This is the only bit that bugged me. Like, wouldn't the skulls be half-way up the castle (as least) after, what, two billion years?

After 2 Billion years would a lot of the skulls not have broken down to sand etc?
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
The thing is, that's not really what the story is about. I mean, it is, but that's not all it's about. It's about personal suffering, the trap that lies and fear put someone in, the tangible place in the pit of someone's soul that they allow themselves to reside when dealing with irrevocable loss, never living but instead dying a million deaths until they allow themselves to be free again. For once a gimmick episode from Moffat felt like the gimmick was just the bone the meat was attached to, and not the whole main course. Much of the credit is certainly not in the writing but in the whole production and especially Capaldi's performance. For what he had to work with and what was asked of him, he was practically flawless.

This performance retroactively makes episodes where he's forced to deal with dialog about speaking baby feel even worse. The difference in how convincing he's been as the Doctor from last season to this is like night and day for me.

but he doesn't remember the past millon/billion times. So it isn't continuous prolonged suffering, its just billions of little sufferings, each independent from each other.
 

thefro

Member
This is pretty big guys. I'm not the biggest Peter Jackson fan (especially not Hobbit, but I was never big into LOTR either), but I really like the guy as a person, and it'd give us a very interesting episode at the very least.

He should do a great job directing an episode. Doctor Who is actually a lot closer to the type of films he made pre-LOTR.

It'll be interesting to see if Jackson actually signing up tempts some others to give it a go.
 
Moffat actually said in an interview this week he thought "for a bit there" that this Christmas might be his very last episode and that was part of why he bought River back, because she's his defining character and all that. In the same interview he says he's "actively engaged" with finding a replacement. So it sounds increasingly to me like Series 10 will indeed be his last, yes. This interview went out on Saturday so I think a lot of fans failed to pick up on it amongst all the Gallifrey excitement, so, yeah.

The next 12 months is the time to watch the twitter accounts and interviews with people who might be in line to take it. If Gatiss goes mad quiet on twitter AND isn't writing for Series 10, for instance, I'd not be surprised if it was him and he was in prep...


He should do a great job directin an episode. Doctor Who is actually a lot closer to the type of films he made pre-LOTR.

It'll be interesting to see if Jackson actually signing up tempts some others to give it a go.

I think the key thing that makes it different for Jackson is that he is genuinely a mega fan. Before the show even came back on the air he bought at considerable cost at auction one of McCoy's original 7th Doctor costumes as worn on the show, for instance. And he's said very publicly in the past that he'd do an episode very happily in exchange for a new model Dalek (because he owns an old series, 80s era one), no money. (Not that the BBC would actually allow this anyway, but still.) He adores the Daleks, and this makes me think if the Dalek episode is a one-parter next year he'll do that one.

So he's a massive fan, he's always wanted to do it, and it was always more a matter of when and waiting for schedules to clear, I think. Another massive fan was Simon Pegg, he always wanted to write one, he made sure he squeezed to appear in it in its first year, he did the voice over for Doctor Who Confidential for a couple of years, and he talked about wanting to write one... but now he's doing stuff like Star Trek and Wars who knows if he'd ever drop down to do Who again for BBC money.
 

VAD

Member
I don't know about directing but he could write great dialogue for the series. I would like a Tarantino-written episode.
 

mclem

Member
You know you all want to see a Tarentino directed Doctor Who episode

V: And you know what they call a... a... a Borg in London?
J: They don't call it a Borg?
V: No man, they got the Doctor over there. They wouldn't know what the fuck a Borg is.
J: Then what do they call it?
V: They call it a Cyberman.
J: A Cyberman. What do they call a Dalek?
V: Well, a Dalek's a Dalek, but they call it a DAL-EK.
J: A DAL-EK. Ha ha ha ha. What do they call a temporal anomaly that causes dinosaurs to appear?
V: I dunno, I didn't switch to ITV.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Moffat actually said in an interview this week he thought "for a bit there" that this Christmas might be his very last episode and that was part of why he bought River back, because she's his defining character and all that. In the same interview he says he's "actively engaged" with finding a replacement. So it sounds increasingly to me like Series 10 will indeed be his last, yes. This interview went out on Saturday so I think a lot of fans failed to pick up on it amongst all the Gallifrey excitement, so, yeah.

The next 12 months is the time to watch the twitter accounts and interviews with people who might be in line to take it. If Gatiss goes mad quiet on twitter AND isn't writing for Series 10, for instance, I'd not be surprised if it was him and he was in prep...

why gatiss tho

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Why hasn't Paul Cornell's Who career had better progression?
 
I genuinely think people will miss Moffat so much should Gatiss ever take over. Not to be alarmist but if it means the main episodes are all the quality of the ones Gatiss has done so far, I sense another late 80's situation occurring :\
 

thefro

Member
I genuinely think people will miss Moffat so much should Gatiss ever take over. Not to be alarmist but if it means the main episodes are all the quality of the ones Gatiss has done so far, I sense another late 80's situation occurring :\

The model where RTD/Moffat write a million episodes isn't the only way for someone to run the show.

I think it's more important to have someone in the position who's really good at revising scripts and managing everything, making stuff make sense and planning out the series arc and who has the ability to find really good writers.
 
With the news of PJ doing an episode I was wondering about Capaldi ever directing an episode? Do we think it's possible while he also plays The Doctor? I'd imagine the workload would be insane being The Doctor AND directing an episode. So maybe once he's left. I think it would be pretty awesome to have him do it. Have any of the previous Doctor's ever did anything like that? Be it directing or writing an episode.
 
why gatiss tho

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Why hasn't Paul Cornell's Who career had better progression?

If you wonder where a writer from the RTD era is in the Moffat era, it's probably down to them not really being TV writers. Cornell only has a few TV credits to his name, for instance, and apart from Doctor Who they're all low rent cheaply shot dramas like Casualty and Doctors. He's a fantastic novelist, he does amazing work for comics, but he's not a TV writer, not really.

It then comes down to a difference in approach: Davies used to rewrite every single episode that came across his desk, except for a brief stretch during Series 3 where he became very ill and couldn't keep up the pace because he was running Torchwood and launching Sarah Jane Adventures simultaneously.

In some instances (such as The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit) the entire episode would be unrecognisable from the final draft submitted by the writer. The writer of those two episodes, for instance, contributed to Doctor Who magazine and had done some Who novels. He fashioned out a decent story based on RTD's ideas, but the script was a mess. RTD re-wrote it completely (at the cost of Fear Her, which he barely touched as a result), including adding the Ood (this is why in subsequent Moffat-era appearances, the credits always say the Ood were created by RTD, not the credited writer of TIP/TSP). RTD said the only people whose scripts didn't go through the rigorous edit process were those who he basically considered his equals TV-wise: Moffat, Chris Chibnall, Mark Gatiss - and even Gatiss was edited the first time. It's worth noting of the Who writers, these are the three who have gone on to have hugely successful shows of their own in Sherlock and Broadchurch and all that. (Plus Chibnall 'ran' Torchwood S2.)

Anyway, that's why. Cornell contributed some of the best stories in Doctor Who history imo, but he's also on the record saying he believes about 50% of those scripts are down to Davies, from little things like the way the Family of Blood talk (the brother of mine/mother of mine tic was RTD's) through to actually how the stories played out broadly (the Doctor never 'died' in the church initially) done by him after Cornell had submitted his work.

This is also why RTD felt comfortable doing mental things like giving green writers a shot on the show like Helen Raynor (she script edited Moffat's episodes on S1/2, then was given the Dalek two-parter in S3, which was rushed because Moffat bailed out from doing that script at the last minute as he lacked the time to do a two-parter - but then she proved she could deliver a great story the next year with the Sontarans) or crazy things like asking JK Rowling to write an episode despite her having no screen writing experience at all. If JK had said yes - but she was too busy with other stuff - she would've obviously basically written the first draft and RTD would've done the rest, made it into an actual TV ready script.

Moffat doesn't do that; he decided early on only to hire people who he felt could deliver a complete and finished product in their final draft after taking notes, rather than doing active rewrites himself. Mainly, I think, because he saw how it nearly killed Davies. Moffat has started to do rewrites recently, though, which is why you've seen him co-credited on a few stories (something RTD never did because given the volume he was doing he thought it'd be ridiculous to be credited almost every week). That's why people like Cornell fell away; Cornell and Moffat are friends, even, they're part of that whole Virgin New Adventures wilderness years set of writers together, after all - but Cornell just doesn't have the chops to write for the show with Moffat's approach to selecting writers... leave alone run it!
 

Hamlet

Member
Goddamn what an amazing episode. Peter Capaldi was just something else with his performance in this episode and such a fantastic score also to go with the episode.
 

Tregard

Soothsayer
Actually, on the subject of people I'd like to write Doctor Who episodes:

- Doug Naylor: I'd love to see Doug do a "romp" episode, because I love the style of Sci-Fi Red Dwarf is, regardless of it's comedy, I enjoy how he plays around with Sci-Fi tropes.

- Eoin Colfer: His story in "11 Doctors, 11 Stories" was great fun, and I trust him to do a decent job after "And Another Thing..."

- Stephen Fry: Revive his 1920's episode script from the Ecclestone series and give it to Capaldi!
 

JoeM86

Member
With the news of PJ doing an episode I was wondering about Capaldi ever directing an episode? Do we think it's possible while he also plays The Doctor? I'd imagine the workload would be insane being The Doctor AND directing an episode. So maybe once he's left. I think it would be pretty awesome to have him do it. Have any of the previous Doctor's ever did anything like that? Be it directing or writing an episode.

Hasn't Matt Smith expressed interest in directing? Would be cool if he came back to direct one day.
 

Wvrs

Member
Amazing.

Episodes like this are why I've been watching this show every year for the last decade, even throughout its lowest points (including the majority of this season). I can't think of another TV show that can vary so wildly from 'just about watchable' to 'one of the best hours of television ever made' from week-to-week.
 
He couldn't complete his script so we got Fear Her instead.

In fairness it was a tad more complicated than that, to Fry's credit. It got bumped from Series 2 partially because it was unfinished and partially because they ran out of money; Fry could've finished it for Series 2, but The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit and Army of Ghosts/Doomsday were both running over-budget - so they bumped it to Series 3 and commissioned a really ridiculously cheap script for its slot instead. And boy, Fear Her is cheap! So cheap.

Then when Series 3 came along, Fry was asked to adjust his script and bring it back, but the changes he'd need to make to switch it from Rose to Martha were too hefty and he didn't have time, so it died. I don't think he'll ever come back now, because I think he's yet another person that (for the reasons outlined above) isn't really enough of a TV drama writer in the typical sense to do it without being rewritten inside out.

There's another Doctor Who script we never saw from that era too, which is that Gatiss wrote something that was all about dashing about the British Museum at night with aliens stalking about. Moffat supposedly used some of the imagery from this in The Big Bang, but that was a complete script that was rejected from Series 3 AND Series 4 by RTD that we never got to see.
 
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