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[PhoncipleBone]

Jacobi was rad even if he only had five minutes.

The world just isn't ready for full on Jacobi as The Master.

What a load of horseshit.

I expected nothing less from you since it is a Moffat episode. I was anticipating this post tonight, and thank you for delivering.


On a different note, I did find it funny that they implied that Jane Austen and Clara made out at some point.

 

[hamchan]

Looked to me the snake converted that dude...

Forgot he received a bite. Fair enough.

 

[Quick]

45 minutes blew by for me. Couldn't believe it was over.

I always enjoy the throwbacks to old Doctors, so that was an instant plus for me.

Having UNIT back again in this capacity reminds me of the 10th Doctor years, but I'm glad we haven't reached the ridiculous heights of the Osterhagen Key just yet.

I do agree that Moffat's really playing out the storyline of the Doctor heading to his death. But one big thing I thought was interesting to bring to the forefront is how much of a coward the Doctor was when he abandoned Davros with the hand mines. Moffat intentionally throws away exactly what the 4th Doctor said about knowingly killing a child who would grow up to be a dictator. I thought that was a good way to show how cowardly the Doctor is, but clearly that's not the end of it based on the final scene.

Good having Missy back. Michelle Gomez doesn't miss a beat. Her personality kind of reminds me of River. Maybe more subdued with the sexual innuendos, but Missy makes it count - "saucy" snipers pointing at her, and rubbing the Dalek's gold ball specifically. And she brought a lot of energy to an otherwise sombre episode (save for the Doctor's awesome tank and guitar entrance).

Clara hasn't had much to do, so I can't say I can really judge. Her big scenes involved UNIT and talking to Missy about finding the Doctor.

Looking forward to The Witch's Familiar. It's great having two-parters again, but damn the wait.

 

[hugocésar]

Debating whether I should just get the episode from itunes tomorrow or just wait and see how the BBC streaming service is gonna work next week.

 

[GodParticle]

The whole time snake guy was moving around, he made me think he was riding one of those goofy hoverboards

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

The whole time snake guy was moving around, he made me think he was riding one of those goofy hoverboards

Same, couldn't stop laughing on that first bar scene.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I got chills when the kid said who he was.

 

[PaulloDEC]

The whole time snake guy was moving around, he made me think he was riding one of those goofy hoverboards

Same, couldn't stop laughing on that first bar scene.

I was picturing roller skates, personally.

 

[Sober]

I was picturing roller skates, personally.

Same. That was probably the only clever thing in this episode, especially when it was revealed it was SNAKES.

The rest were kinda just riffs on your standard Moffatisms.

 

[Emitan]

Wanted to like it but it felt super corny. Did enjoy seeing Skaro since my roommate and I are watching the original episodes together and just saw the introduction of the Daleks.

 

[BigWeather]

I'll admit that I normally dislike story arc Dr. Who episodes and love the one-offs (and that list of best episodes io9 indicated I'm not alone in that regard) but (for a story arc episode) that one wasn't bad at all. I've always liked Davros' character, though, so that helped. I also liked the frozen plane trick, especially using one for shade, pretty chilling concept.

 

[weshes195]

Hey, it turns out I don't have BBC America. Will Hulu have it up tomorrow? Or will BBC have it up on their own site?

 

[Vibranium]

I'm digging it, even though we know The Doctor's not going to murder Davros and such. I'm so happy his classic "INFINITE RICE PUDDING" burn got in, I love 7 so much.

 

[BorkBork]

Oh Doctor Who, why do I keep coming back expecting different things from you? You are what you are, and you won't change. I need to accept this and move on. (at least until Moffat is gone).

 

[Vibranium]

A lot of people on Reddit Gallifrey are really liking it like me. I guess some people are ready for Moffat to go though, the fanbase is always split.

Davros is excellent here, I like how he's a dying person with no more concerns about making big speeches.

 

[Blader]

Great episode, maybe the show's best opener since The Eleventh Hour. I still can't stand UNIT or Kate Stewart though.

 

[DangerMouse]

I also liked the frozen plane trick, especially using one for shade, pretty chilling concept.

Yeah, when Missy moved it like that it was a pretty good moment.

 

[funkystudent]

A lot of people on Reddit Gallifrey are really liking it like me. I guess some people are ready for Moffat to go though, the fanbase is always split.

I dont really have a problem with Moffat but immediately rolling out the "Doctor knows he is going to die soon" story beat for the 5th year in a row is a bit much.

 

[Vibranium]

I dont really have a problem with Moffat but immediately rolling out the "Doctor knows he is going to die soon" story beat for the 5th year in a row is a bit much.

I can agree with that. It gets tiring.

I want Missy as the next companion even more now. C'mon Moffat/BBC, do it!

 

[Delicious Waffles]

Really enjoyed this one. Way to start the season out with a bang. For me, probably better than any episode last season.

 

[Guri]

I know it wouldn't make much sense, but I would be OK with Michelle Gomez being a companion, haha. Seriously, she's amazing!

Very good episode. Not excellent, of course. For the same reasons you all mentioned.

 

[Boem]

Watched it again this morning. Still superfun, even moreso the second time I think.

The moment where Davros describes what the Daleks are feeling just before they're going to 'kill' Clara is one of my favorite moments ever. Very good use of Davros (who, frankly, after his first appearance in Genesis was never really used properly).

 

[bearythebear]

Episode was alright. Obviously it's table setting, but that doesn't mean it can't be better. Felt like you could cut it by half and not lose anything.

 

[GodParticle]

They really need to give the daleks and cybermen some time off. When 2 or 3 episodes out of a limited run every year are dedicated to them, they really start to lose any appeal they had. Personally, I never found them all that interesting(well, tomb of the cybermen ones were kinda creepy)

 

[SigmasonicX]

Problems:
* The montage of the snake guy searching for the Doctor on different worlds was pointless.
* Entire UNIT thing was completely irrelevant, even if the concept of stopping the planes was neat.
* ANOTHER "Doctor about to die" story?!
* The Doctor goes to Davros expecting a trap, is absolutely shocked that it's a trap.

Good parts:
* The opening sequence, including the hand mines.
* Snake guy was kind of neat. When he was skating around, I thought that he was actually a Dalek with organic tissue around it that was trying to hold back "EXTERMINATE"s.
* Missy was pretty enjoyable.
* The Doctor rocking out.
* The idea of the confrontation between the Doctor and Davros, but I don't feel like they've really done anything with it yet.

I enjoyed the episode well enough while watching, but a huge chunk of this episode really was just padding and/or more "Doctor confronting his death" stuff. Hopefully the next episode actually addresses the Davros plot more, but knowing Moffat, it will actually start out with something seemingly completely unrelated.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

One thing i missed completely tho which made me confused, but why is the doctor doing a party ? Why does he think he's about to die ? I completely missed that, i felt left out of something. That whole part of the plot felt very messy ?

I wondered the same, how does he know he's about to die, and also why now? I get that he just had the Davros incident himself, but isn't it a coincidence that Davros is taking revenge now?

Nah. This was better:

Doctor: Davros is my arch enemy.
Missy: Wait, what?

Great line.

It wasn't a heel turn. She meant to do that to get Clara and herself out. She needed the Daleks and Davros to believe they died.

What I don't understand so far is:
A) why the doctor thought he was going to die
B) why the doctor believes Clara and missy are dead. He has seen enough exterminations to know the result. Moffat using the same cop out again is very poor writing.

Looked like skeleton outlines in those blasts to me.

"You're the puppy."



EDIT: I guess Kate's in her "off-day" clothes?

Another great line. Damn she's good.

I'm digging it, even though we know The Doctor's not going to murder Davros and such. I'm so happy his classic "INFINITE RICE PUDDING" burn got in, I love 7 so much.

I missed this, is it a classic reference?

Overall I liked this, but I learned long ago not to think too much about Doctor Who, especially Moffat Doctor Who.

I never took the Doctor's impending death seriously for even a moment.

 

[liquidtmd]

Does no-one in the Doctor Who production staff have the ability or balls to say to Moffat 'Yeah...about the Doctor going to face his death series wide arc. Weve had it for five years almost in various fashions. Please stop'

 

[The Auxiliary]

My sister and I really enjoyed this episode in spite of it's many "Moffatisms." In reality, I can watch Capaldi in anything and be entertained, but I truly did like this way more than the final episode of last season and the Christmas special.

 

[Boem]

They really need to give the daleks and cybermen some time off. When 2 or 3 episodes out of a limited run every year are dedicated to them, they really start to lose any appeal they had. Personally, I never found them all that interesting(well, tomb of the cybermen ones were kinda creepy)

The rights to the Daleks are with the Terry Nation estate (the guy who wrote the first story with them), and apparently (although some people have later denied this) the BBC has to use the Daleks at least once every series or the rights will revert back to them, after which the BBC would have to negotiate for them again (which costs money, obviously).

Also, Moffat at one point admitted that the Daleks were, at this point, more famous of being beaten every year than for being dangerous and were overused, and that he would probably need to give them a rest. This was turned into a stupid series of headlines about how Moffat was supposedly planning to get rid of the Daleks forever, and a whole stupid controversy followed. It was all a bit of nonsense to be honest. But I can imagine that having lead to an extra push to just keep using the Daleks.

I agree with you that both of them are overused at this point though, and Dalek/Cyberman stories are never my favorite because there's actually not a whole lot you can do with them after so many stories. This story seems promising though. We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out next week, but like I said earlier, this is my favorite use of Davros since Genesis so far - they're finally giving him something new and substantial to do with the character (again, this is just based on the first half of the story, so don't kill me if it all falls apart next week).

Also Missy and Clara standing on the hills outside of the Skaro city with a first-generation Dalek approaching them gave me goosebumps. I know it's fanwank, but fuck it, I love it.

Best lines:

- "Three possible locations of Atlantis" (I love references to classic plotholes)
- "Unlimited rice pudding!"

EDIT:

I missed this, is it a classic reference?

When Davros is playing recordings of all those classic Doctors - rice pudding comes from one of the McCoy scenes (you can also see a snippet of the scene on one of those screens). It's one of his more famous moments.

 

[GodParticle]

The rights to the Daleks are with the Terry Nation estate (the guy who wrote the first story with them), and apparently (although some people have later denied this) the BBC has to use the Daleks at least once every series or the rights will revert back to them, after which the BBC would have to negotiate for them again (which costs money, obviously).

Never heard of the contract thing. Wonder if they could get away with a simple cameo in that case

 

[dave_m123]

Yeah, when Missy moved it like that it was a pretty good moment.

That was cool.

I still done get the searching on the computer for where he might be...maybe I missed something?

 

[Tagg9]

I thought the episode was absolutely abysmal. I'm honestly stunned that they're wheeling out the Daleks as the lead villains yet again. Daleks are no longer scary or interesting or even impactful as a plot device. As soon as I see those flucking plungers and hear that overused metallic death threat, I inwardly groan.

I really disliked Missy last season, so I'm also disappointed that she's returned (and has a larger role based on reports?). I don't found her character funny or clever, but instead annoying and cheesy. Even John Simm was better in the role of Master, and I wasn't particularly keen on his interpretation.

The opening with the hands and a young Davros was interesting conceptually and visually, but the next scenes with snake man looking for the Doctor were not only completely unnecessary but also tacky as all hell (especially snake man moving around Mos Eisley Cantina on a segway).

What I want to see is each season being completely self-contained. No references to decades old characters like Davros or random shit like UNIT. We are on SEASON 9 of the new Doctor Who - do you seriously expect the viewers to remember everything that has occurred over the last 120 episodes (not to mention the prior 40 years' worth of stories)?! We're not all superfans who rewatch the series multiple times. They can have an overarching plot as they have in the past (relegated to a single season!), but I'd like to see a return to monster-of-the-week plots. And for God's sake, bring in some new writers to inject some creativity into the show and fire that hasbeen Moffat.

 

[OneEyedKing]

BBC put the episode on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXKbqtWnvFI

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

That was really good. Too bad it probably will not matter to the rest of the season.

 

[Boem]

Never heard of the contract thing. Wonder if they could get away with a simple cameo in that case

That's what Russel T Davies did in (I think) the year where Tennant just had a couple of specials instead of a full series. At one point a character has a flashback to a Dalek invasion, and they just showed a Dalek floating past a window.

It's been years since I watched the Tennant episodes so I don't know for sure when that happened though, but I'm pretty sure it was in the gap year.

 

[Spectromixer]

Did last season have a "Doctor is going to die" plot line? I know the 11th Doctor had a couple of them.

 

[JoeM86]

That's what Russel T Davies did in (I think) the year where Tennant just had a couple of specials instead of a full series. At one point a character has a flashback to a Dalek invasion, and they just showed a Dalek floating past a window.

It's been years since I watched the Tennant episodes so I don't know for sure when that happened though, but I'm pretty sure it was in the gap year.

Series 6 also had a cameo on that level, only in the final episode for about 30 seconds in The Wedding of River Song.

 

[neurosisxeno]

That's what Russel T Davies did in (I think) the year where Tennant just had a couple of specials instead of a full series. At one point a character has a flashback to a Dalek invasion, and they just showed a Dalek floating past a window.

Unless I'm remembering wrong, that was a pretty big moment in Water of Mars.

 

[Ozium]

I love Kuwabara's posts, they are the highlight of this thread.. I'm not even joking.. Sometimes I honestly think he's really Steven Moffat and is just taking the piss.

 

[obin_gam]

Did last season have a "Doctor is going to die" plot line? I know the 11th Doctor had a couple of them.

12 has only had this one

10 had "The end of Time"
11 had "The Big Bang/Pandorica", the "Impossible Astronaut", and the "...of the doctor-trilogy."

I think that's all the previous ones.

 

[mrklaw]

What a load of horseshit.

Whatever happened to Doctor Who having quality storytelling? This was just a complete mess on every level. The plot was convoluted and spent a lot of time going nowhere, and the story is just a bunch of disjointed fanwank nonsense. What was the point of going from Skaro to Karn to the Shadow Proclamation to wherever to Missy suddenly coming back in 10 minutes? This would make even the most amateur of fanfiction writers blush. It's just an embarrassment. Even Warriors of the Deep wasn't this bad.

Beyond that, the state of Skaro makes no sense in the sections with young Davros. The technology is completely out of wack with anything we've seen from there in the past (even Genesis, the story this episode is trying so hard to be), and the creatures reaching up from under the ground have no connection to anything related to it. So it's not even continuity that actually connects to anything.

The Doctor is also not at all like the Doctor here. I remember the days when the Doctor tried to avoid interfering in history. Now he relishes in it. Bringing out tanks and electric guitars into history and bragging about it. This is not the Doctor. This is not Doctor Who. This is a perversion wearing the face of a once great show.

The dialogue remains pretty terrible throughout the whole episode, Davros is completely wasted, and Clara just kind of stands around without showing much of a personality. There is really nothing here to even remark on positively. Moffat also is taking his whole "greatest hits" thing to new heights, going back to the whole "this is the absolute end of the Doctor's life and here's what he does on his final day" bit again. This is like four times in the past five years now, right?

What a trial to get through.

The doctor with the tank etc felt like him just going 'fuck it, I'm going to be dea tomorrow, may as well have some fun'. He was super hyper too, like he was trying to ignore what was coming and over compensating to block it out. Seemed fine to me.

Only odd bit was - why was the medieval dude a Dalek? That didn't seem to make sense to me, especially when Nagini the snake couldn't find him even though he was spending 3 weeks with a bunch of daleks?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The snake fella looking for a time traveller (with mastery over space) was ridiculous. He could've ended up spending his entire life looking for him.

Ask Davros first!

 

[weshes195]

The doctor with the tank etc felt like him just going 'fuck it, I'm going to be dea tomorrow, may as well have some fun'. He was super hyper too, like he was trying to ignore what was coming and over compensating to block it out. Seemed fine to me.

Only odd bit was - why was the medieval dude a Dalek? That didn't seem to make sense to me, especially when Nagini the snake couldn't find him even though he was spending 3 weeks with a bunch of daleks?

The snake bit him so, yadda yadda yadda, he turns into a dalek.

 

[davidcotton]

young Davros was interesting conceptually and

Might want to check out the dirt cheap 4 part series from Big Finish I, Davros.

"I find it fascinating that a living creature would subject itself to such dangerous experimentation. Knowing that it would die.."

The Kaled and Thal races are at war. No one really remembers why, or when it started, but generations of people on both sides have lost so very much.

Born into an influential family is Davros. Now aged sixteen, he is being pulled in various directions his father wants him to follow tradition and go into the military. His sister has joined the Military Youth and his scheming, devoted mother wants him to pursue a life of science.

But no one seems terribly interested in what Davros himself wants. So he must begin to assert himself, begin to take control over his own life, begin to work towards his destiny."

 

[mrklaw]

How did the doctor get back to Davros in the field at the end of the episode if he is trapped with Davros on Skaro? Felt a bit Bill & Ted's Adventure

 

[obin_gam]

How did the doctor get back to Davros in the field at the end of the episode if he is trapped with Davros on Skaro? Felt a bit Bill & Ted's Adventure

Have you ever watched Doctor Who before this episode?

 

[VegiHam]

The snake fella looking for a time traveller (with mastery over space) was ridiculous. He could've ended up spending his entire life looking for him.

Ask Davros first!

I assumed he was just time travelling too? I mean he made it to Ye Olde Essexe, so...

Edit: wait I misread your post. I guess he just went to important people who might be tracking him.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

The best series opener since Eleventh Hour, and aside from that the most enjoyable Doctor Who episode in years. Not quite sure what some of you want from this show anymore. Might be time to move on.

You know the Doctor isn't about to die because it's called "Doctor Who". It's not like they'll play that for some series wide arc like 6, it'll be resolved by end of Witch's Familiar.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Let me theorize: He's going to

Spoiler

hand kid Davros the Extermination laser thingie, but he will have some weird plan with it that ages later saves them during what otherwise would have happened in this episode. I'm going with "I gave you the laser and you handed me back my screwdriver instead, ha!" and thus, while he was causing the creation of Daleks in Davros mind, he was also now able to screwdrive a solution for the Missy/Clara killing from the Davros room, since saving his friends is more important than undo his enemies. Done.

Also, I really liked this episode


Edit oh god new page

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Let me theorize: He's going to

Spoiler

hand kid Davros the Extermination laser thingie, but he will have some weird plan with it that ages later saves them during what otherwise would have happened in this episode. I'm going with "I gave you the laser and you handed me back my screwdriver instead, ha!" and thus, while he was causing the creation of Daleks in Davros mind, he was also now able to screwdrive a solution for the Missy/Clara killing from the Davros room, since saving his friends are more important than undo his enemies. Done.

Also, I really liked this episode


Edit oh god new page

Yeah that's my bet too, he'll have placed some sort of Doctor controlled fail safe in the "original" Dalek laser.