Has any work ever had the twist being "Someone rubbed out the R"?
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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
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Has any work ever had the twist being "Someone rubbed out the R"?
Then there's kinda no point even speculating or even wondering about the mystery of the season arc, like the writers want us to, if in the end we can write it off as just a word. Which is really what we should be doing for Moffat's mysteries after that whole Trenzalore mess anyways.
PayOffWizard
Member
1) Amy
2) Amy
3) Amy
4) Amy
5) Amy
6) Amy
7) Amy
8) Amy
9) Amy
10) Amy
Except the part where two people are not a hybrid. Unless maybe when eaten by Wapol and I am not sure that counts.
I do not understand this reference.
Stop ponding yourself in here ;o
1) Amy
2) Amy
3) Amy
4) Amy
5) Amy
6) Amy
7) Amy
8) Amy
9) Amy
10) Amy
It's not a reference. Well, not knowingly. I was wondering if anything ever went with a twist of "It's actually 'Norman can kill him', but someone rubbed out the R"
1) Amy
2) Amy
3) Amy
4) Amy
5) Amy
6) Amy
7) Amy
8) Amy
9) Amy
10) Amy
Ugh. Bottom of the list for me. Well, next to Clara.
I played the Doctor Who board game a few weeks back and I swear every other question had the answer 'Amy Pond'.
tonysidaway
Member
I think you must find Doctor Who very unrewarding.
As I was saying...
Remember Moffat's other show is the one that had a two year cliff hanger that was blown off without explanation in the first episode of the next series. Instead the writers simply lampooned the feverish speculation of the fans.
If you don't like this, you're probably the target of the humour.
The difference being that Sherlock was very deliberately not trying to provide an answer, whereas in Doctor Who Moffat keeps trying to.
No, I find how Moffat handles season arcs and finales very unrewarding.
I think his episodes that work as self-contained stories are brilliant, like Heaven Sent which was one of the best Doctor Who episodes I've ever seen.
I would argue that her knockoff Doctor tendencies have been showing up as early as series 8. I mean it definitely showed in Flatline. I mean even Danny Pink was trying to tell Clara what she was turning into. But the issue is that she has been so inconsistent that by Face the Raven it's easy to go "Wait, what? Since when?" and get confused. I mean seriously, she goes from "being the doctor" in Flatline to "I'm going to save nobody and walk these children into the fires of the sun" in In the Forest of the Night, the immediate episode after. To be fair, I'm guessing the trees emitted some sort of spores that made everyone stupid, so that could be why.
tonysidaway
Member
What is the answer? I heard speculation from several parties. In the end it seems to have subsided into a metaphor. And you know, that's okay unless you're going to be all Annie Wilkes about it.
Here's what the hybrid is really about: Rasillon believed in the hybrid, Doctor Who played him in a bid to get Clara back. This is all in the episode. Weren't you watching?
tonysidaway
Member
Does nobody actually _watch_ that episode?
DOCTOR: We're all going. We're taking the kids.
CLARA: Taking them where? What are you going do with them? Leave them on an asteroid? Find a space academy for the gifted and talented? They just want their mums and dads, and they're never going to stop wanting them.
tonysidaway
Member
I see much disappointment in your future.
That's the answer, sure. Doesn't mean we have to declare that it was a satisfying one. I personally thought it was alright, certainly not the episode's biggest problem.
I think it's been prophesied you could be right
Its a classical dramatic trope but Jesus fucking Christ in modern sci-fi most writers can't use it for toffee
Nah I think we need a final prophecy related to the Doctor's hidden past. We already got one based on his name, and now we got another one based on why he ran away from Gallifrey, I wonder what third prophecy we can think of?
Maybe a prophecy about why The Doctor took Susan with him. I think that's still available.
Yeah, I'm aware of the reasoning that doesn't make sense in the context of Clara's character arc. What's your point, to prove mine?
#cries
Its beyond lazy at this point as writers use it as a 'go to'. 'How can we add weight to a plot'? We will infer it has historical and social significance to all players in the narrative by being some kind of mythical Prophecy that defies characters applying sensible critical thinking to it because 'woooo its a prophecy'. Its hack writing 101.
tonysidaway
Member
It was a McGuffin. There is a kind of metaphorical truth to it, too.
If somebody ever asked me I'd probably say what worked best in that episode was the surprise return of Clara, who then steals a TARDIS and runs off with the girl in the end. The symmetries are pleasing, and all the rest is just setup for that trick.
Four and a half billion years spent punching a wall, deposing Rassilon, feeding the McGuffin back to a credulous audience of Time Lords, all of it with a single aim.
tonysidaway
Member
No, to contradict it. That quote is the entirety of her response to Doctor Who's suggestion that he'll use the TARDIS to save the children.
This is reasonably predictable companion behaviour, to ask the awkward questions. Not everything is about Clara becoming Doctor Who.
So you're saying that you want (for example) Big Finish to be a non-prophet organisation?
Yes, everybody unfortunately watched that episode.
They just don't agree with you. In the same way you just pull up the script to answer people's problems with a bush effectively turning into a small child because isn't that touching it doesnt work like that.
You approach Doctor Who like the Bible, most people view it as entertainment.
It wasn't supposed to be a mystery. No way could any one have figured out what "Bad Wolf" was. Although I would agree that payed-off a little better.
The Elite
BOSS
I am not usually a fan of prophecy stories or the amount that Doctor Who seems to be using them lately. However, I did like how they explained it away this week. The idea that it's much less mystical mumbo jumbo and more about the Matrix using an algorithm to try and predict future events. That's something we try and do today to predict market trends. I imagine the Matrix does it with a great deal more accuracy so it operates with a much smaller margin for error.
I would still like to see it used a lot less as a plot device though. That's in general and not just Doctor Who.
The show's self-aware about it though, didn't the Doctor take a swipe?
PayOffWizard
Member
If you have the audacity to call yourself Time Lords then that's how i would imagine they would dress.
tonysidaway
Member
Okay they could do that, but they must never discuss it with outsiders.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Honestly, I'd just rather Time Lords never actually featured and their relationship to the Doctor remains something that's occasionally referenced but never really expanded upon. The organization and complexity of a society that could travel through time is one of those things that I doubt could ever be compellingly portrayed - the idea that Time Lords would use radio links and even physical buildings is baffling. Any time they are shown on screen it can't fail but to be a disappointment.
My final thoughts on the finale were the series ended as it began. The core of the story was good, the ideas were there, but it was also told and edited like someone on too much coke who couldn't stop talking and going off on tangents.
It was someone getting high off their own supply. Entertaining and works to a degree if you want what they're on, but also self-destructive and not actually very satisfying.
I'm quite happy for the show to go into rehab for a year.
It was someone getting high off their own supply. Entertaining and works to a degree if you want what they're on, but also self-destructive and not actually very satisfying.
I'm quite happy for the show to go into rehab for a year.
Heaven Sent was also such a high watermark this time round that it just exposed the weaknesses that came from not incorporating the themes effectively throughout the series, in the stories and through the characters. With only Face The Raven serving as an effective bridge.
Leaving the last episode to disparetly try and pull everything scattered throughout the series together in one go.
The show is caught between an old formula and a new more character-heavy one, and it can't make up its mind. Only hitting the mark when it commits, and unsurprisingly gives Capaldi the most to work with.
They need to look at episodes like Mummy for how you manage it as an ongoing series, rather than just veering from one extreme to the other as required or mixing it all up and calling it a day.
Leaving the last episode to disparetly try and pull everything scattered throughout the series together in one go.
The show is caught between an old formula and a new more character-heavy one, and it can't make up its mind. Only hitting the mark when it commits, and unsurprisingly gives Capaldi the most to work with.
They need to look at episodes like Mummy for how you manage it as an ongoing series, rather than just veering from one extreme to the other as required or mixing it all up and calling it a day.
Exterminieren
Banned
I'd probably agree, although with the proviso that Bad Wolf/ The Parting of the Ways and The Pandorica Opens/ The Big Bang are nipping at its heels.
It is, at least, proof that you can have a smaller-scale, character-led finale that actually feels meaningful rather than throwing invading alien armies and huge CGI setpieces at the episode. The Magician's Apprentice/ The Witch's Familiar was far more like a traditional finale than this three-parter was.
They're more a mini-series of their own than a finale to me, a highly compressed version of the series we should have got with Flatline as the lead-in.
bengraven
Member
Was reading the Guardian review and it made a good point.
Since they already lied to each other once to help the other move on and be happy, maybe they're lying in the TARDinerIS. He may be faking that he can't remember her. "How can I forget you?" She may or may not know he's lying to her, which could be why she's so heartbroken, not just because he's possibly forgotten her.
Both know it's not safe for them to be together, so they lie to each other one last time for the same reasons they did before, but poetically ending and going their own ways. Hell, he probably even knows she has a fucking TARDIS. I kind of wish they had a shot with him seeing her picture on the TARDIS and smiling, then entering just before taking off.
Because this is the guy who can't let a mystery hang. When he discovered the Impossible Girl he became obsessed with finding her. He would once again obsess with finding Clara. She made the man say her name to him, to keep it in his memory even though he had supposedly forgotten everything about her. And yet he's like "huh, well time to move on..". Nah. He knows. And she should know he would try and find her, but she knows he knows she knows he knows.
Fixed it for me: have to admit I started with Matt and going back and watching old Who I just can't get into other companions. Then again, I still have a ton of episodes I haven't seen - I do this on purpose. Being a newer Who fan I love the idea of having a ton of episodes in the bin for when I'm craving a Who fix. So I'll suddenly pop on Netflix and watch a could Tennants for example.
Since they already lied to each other once to help the other move on and be happy, maybe they're lying in the TARDinerIS. He may be faking that he can't remember her. "How can I forget you?" She may or may not know he's lying to her, which could be why she's so heartbroken, not just because he's possibly forgotten her.
Both know it's not safe for them to be together, so they lie to each other one last time for the same reasons they did before, but poetically ending and going their own ways. Hell, he probably even knows she has a fucking TARDIS. I kind of wish they had a shot with him seeing her picture on the TARDIS and smiling, then entering just before taking off.
Because this is the guy who can't let a mystery hang. When he discovered the Impossible Girl he became obsessed with finding her. He would once again obsess with finding Clara. She made the man say her name to him, to keep it in his memory even though he had supposedly forgotten everything about her. And yet he's like "huh, well time to move on..". Nah. He knows. And she should know he would try and find her, but she knows he knows she knows he knows.
Fixed it for me: have to admit I started with Matt and going back and watching old Who I just can't get into other companions. Then again, I still have a ton of episodes I haven't seen - I do this on purpose. Being a newer Who fan I love the idea of having a ton of episodes in the bin for when I'm craving a Who fix. So I'll suddenly pop on Netflix and watch a could Tennants for example.
Whoa, so I was rewatching that Where's My Mind tribute to Clara posted like 10 pages back and looking in the comments someone called out the plot twist to the finale back on November 10th.
Whoa.
Whoa.
Totally Moffat's kid.
Pretty sure there are always guesses for everything flying around. I am only impressed if there is a detailed analysis like with the one time someone got a whole arc of Attack on Titan rigt before the arc even started, all with little hints in panels and such and such.
tonysidaway
Member
I would have loved that alternative take. It is, as you suggest, very Doctor Who and very Clara.
Yep. I'm pretty sure I read a forum post somewhere that guessed 'The Force Awakens' title before we even knew of the new films
Millions of opinions - ones gonna be right
I had an idea at one time that it might be cool to completely change them and what they mean to the show at some point by destroying the actual planet, but allowing the Doctor to save the people, which would result in a Great Time Lord Diaspora. Time Lords are forced to adapt to a more traveler, nomad culture since their name is dirt across the universe thanks to the Time War and they now have nowhere to go and, for the first time ever, the Doctor actually makes sense as a representative, role model and leader for their culture.
I think I had half a mind to have the other Time Lords, having done away with all other titles, kind of universally refer to the Doctor as Grandfather in a way that makes it seem more like an honorific in their newly forming traveler culture.
Anyway, it'd be more interesting than them just being Lawful Neutral dickheads in dumb hats. Funny as it can sometimes be when they show up to throw their weight around and the Doctor usually ends up making fools of them anyway.
APZonerunner
Member
The Time Lords have always been prophecies and superstition and ceremony which is why they're bollocks and should be kept out of the show. They should've stayed dead or lost, but the cat is out of the bag now, but hopefully we don't go back to Gallifrey again for years, if at all
tonysidaway
Member
When I started watching, the credits called him Doctor Who and the body of John F Kennedy was still cooling. Craig Ferguson was probably not yet able to speak and was certainly a little too young to make much sense of An Unearthly Child.
I just never got used to calling Doctor Who by his in-universe name.