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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
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Two episodes of shitfest they were...but it did have a lovely talking scene between Cribbins and Tenant, plus I'm a sucker for the last 10 minutes of the finale where he revisits everyone then Regenerates but a realise not everyone was a fan of that victory lap.
The rest of it was garbage. I still swear to God RTD made the whole concept of the two parter around getting the 'master race' gag in there.
And sometimes you've just got to ignore the 1000 and focus on the 1.
I can dig that. But he still had to install a lot of machinations into the visit because only an idiot would walk into an audience with Davros and not have a "Break Glass in Case of Emergency" backup plan.
An idiot, or a very, very curious person. And if there's one thing that the Doctor is, it's curious. That's the only reason humanity is even alive.
Cool, thank you for the recommendations, you guys. I can't wait to watch them tonight.
I'm not gunna get started on End of Time. I swear, I will end up writing something with the bile and intensity equal to a Kuwabara post when he talks about Moffat episodes.
Even the good scenes are moving towards ends that I think were completely the wrong choice.
Let it never be said that the Doctor is not both an idiot and a very curious person. That said, he was totally in full on schemer mode when he sent that confession dial.
Only thing that made me outright cringe was that shit with Obama ending the recession. Like, seriously? Other than that there was a lot I liked about that two parter, mostly because of Cribbins.
ClivePwned
Member
End of Time manages to undo so much of RTD's excellent work in just two episodes.
The victory lap was the stupidest thing on the planet, though Moffat managed to get close with Time of the Doctor (I'm old, but I can't regenerate as an old man, so I'll go young again for the regen scene...)
These season 9 openers do some unnecessary retconning but manages not lose the good with the bad "They're lies, but they're entertaining lies. And in the end, isn't that what's important?"
As a Doctor Who fan, I choose to love the show regardless, but I will point out the silliness.
At least we're not as utterly joyless as comic book fans.
The victory lap was the stupidest thing on the planet, though Moffat managed to get close with Time of the Doctor (I'm old, but I can't regenerate as an old man, so I'll go young again for the regen scene...)
These season 9 openers do some unnecessary retconning but manages not lose the good with the bad "They're lies, but they're entertaining lies. And in the end, isn't that what's important?"
As a Doctor Who fan, I choose to love the show regardless, but I will point out the silliness.
At least we're not as utterly joyless as comic book fans.
End of Time suffers from a case of Dark Knight Rises syndrome where the creative team are A) burnt out and B) trying way too hard to top their previous efforts (namely, Journey's End).
It's still good enough for me, mainly because I think for all the silliness in the middle it's a satisfying conclusion for me, and I'm a sucker for a good ending (and conversely I hate things that don't end well)
It's still good enough for me, mainly because I think for all the silliness in the middle it's a satisfying conclusion for me, and I'm a sucker for a good ending (and conversely I hate things that don't end well)
SigmasonicX
Member
Cool, thank you for the recommendations, you guys. I can't wait to watch them tonight.
"In the Forest of the Night" is also good MST material. It's a really dumb episode.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Cool, thank you for the recommendations, you guys. I can't wait to watch them tonight.
I am not sure why Flatline isn't on every one of these posts!
Same writer as Mummy, and for my money, better (but they are both great).
CloudyTuba
Member
I too am shocked by positive opinions of this one. Even more shocked by people who like this one and dislike Listen.
My favorites for that series were Listen, Flatline, and Mummy. In my opinion those three are some of the strongest standalones in years, but then the rest of the series I'm not crazy about. I found it to be an inconsistent year. However I think that's pretty regular for a new Doctor's first, high hopes for s9.
Nothing like an episode where the "threat" to the earth would be resolved by the Doctor and co. doing precisely nothing. Capaldi's interactions with the kid are cute though. I love his like, "You. Have you got a name at all?" Like there's some possibility she does hasn't got one. But yeah, completely filler episode.
Because in the original request, they said they'd just seen Flatline.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Having recently watch Caves of Andronazi, "and" is indeed the operative conjunction.
That Doctor, never falling down on the job. Am I right? Eh, eh?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Last season's best episodes:
1) Flatline
2) Mummy on the Orient Express
3) Listen
4) Dark Water/Death in Heaven
5) Kill the Moon
then a bit of a quality gap:
6) Into the Dalek
7) The Caretaker
8) Deep Breath
9) Robots of Sherwood
10) Time Heist
Then a precipitous drop to
11) In the Forest of the Night
1) Flatline
2) Mummy on the Orient Express
3) Listen
4) Dark Water/Death in Heaven
5) Kill the Moon
then a bit of a quality gap:
6) Into the Dalek
7) The Caretaker
8) Deep Breath
9) Robots of Sherwood
10) Time Heist
Then a precipitous drop to
11) In the Forest of the Night
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
I thought for a bit that somehow everyone disliked this one!
Lol.
Also: People liked Kill the Moon? That's barely above the FOrest nonsense from my POV. Hated that one.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I liked Kill the Moon because it's an episode that kinda just goes for it. It's not as if the bullshit isn't sold well, that's part of Forest's problem. Not only is there some inexplicable trash in that episode, but nobody involved is doing a good job making you care about it.
But Kill the Moon is a pretty creepy character drama that's ALSO a pretty funny bit of smartassed comedy that's ALSO on some really outlandish sci-fi fluff. And somehow, those three things are balanced equally so that one doesn't quite kill off the others.
It's not a great episode. But of that season, I'd slot it in that top 5. Not by much, but it sneaks in there.
(plus it's one of the few times I gave a shit about Clara, and I still think her letting the Doctor have it should have been her exit)
But Kill the Moon is a pretty creepy character drama that's ALSO a pretty funny bit of smartassed comedy that's ALSO on some really outlandish sci-fi fluff. And somehow, those three things are balanced equally so that one doesn't quite kill off the others.
It's not a great episode. But of that season, I'd slot it in that top 5. Not by much, but it sneaks in there.
(plus it's one of the few times I gave a shit about Clara, and I still think her letting the Doctor have it should have been her exit)
Hey everyone. I've been following the Series 7 OT episode guide since the beginning and it's been great so far except I couldn't find a GAF consensus for Series 7 & 8. Any recommendations for skippable eps?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I think I've figured out my issues with New Who. RTD Who was usually very original and often very exciting, but frquently embarrassingly stupid and written like an anime soap opera with Mary Sue companions. Moffat Who is like someone who is really good at sci fi getting stuck in a Groundhog Day recursion loop and he just keeps watching old Who instead of trying to date Andie MacDowell because he's not quite as clever as he thinks he is.
Don't get me wrong, both are vastly superior to going back to not having a show, there's still plenty in both I enjoy.
I'm convinced now though that anyone I wished would take over the show from here out is probably the wrong choice.
Don't get me wrong, both are vastly superior to going back to not having a show, there's still plenty in both I enjoy.
I'm convinced now though that anyone I wished would take over the show from here out is probably the wrong choice.
mightynine
Member
Time Heist was better in my pre-season rewatch, which surprised me as I was not a fan on original airing. It seems to "fit" better during a binge watch.
Nothing can help Forest of Night. That one just does not work at all.
Nothing can help Forest of Night. That one just does not work at all.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Goddamn.
Whoever they get, it would probably help if they were A) exceptionally tallented B) Not an ascended fanboy and C) willing to put in the effort for what the BBC will pay.
The problem is, I don't think that person exists.
My personal recommendations for skippable episodes would be:
series 7 - Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, Power of Three, Rings of Akhaten, Nightmare in Silver
series 8 - Robot of Sherwood, Time Heist, The Caretaker (though I recommend reading a recap since it has some plot stuff), In the Forest of the Night
Others might say skip more of series 7 part 2, but I think it's a very good run of episodes apart from the two listed.
Exterminieren
Banned
I don't think being a fan of Doctor Who is a barrier to being exactly what the show needs- in fact, I'd argue that the exact opposite is true. Professionally, being a Doctor Who fan just means that you get the rhythms of the programme, and why it works- it does not necessarily follow that it need be exclusionary or fanwanky.
Of course, it's all academic, because no one who doesn't like Doctor Who is going to carve out 4+ incredibly intensive years to make it.
Of course, it's all academic, because no one who doesn't like Doctor Who is going to carve out 4+ incredibly intensive years to make it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think the argument that being a fan helps any creator make better product is all that sound. It's an argument I see a lot in many other fandoms, and it's less about the quality of the show/book/movie, and more about the small sense of validation gained by "one of us" getting the reins.
He's a fan/I'm a fan/we're fans/his victories/fans victories/fans victories/my victories.
Being a fan really doesn't factor in at all, I don't think. I don't think it helps or hurts. Unless the thing we're worried about their being a fan of is story structure, characterization, plotting... that sorta stuff.
But I don't buy the argument that a fan of a property is somehow, even incrementally, better suited to make that property than anyone else, all things being equal.
He's a fan/I'm a fan/we're fans/his victories/fans victories/fans victories/my victories.
Being a fan really doesn't factor in at all, I don't think. I don't think it helps or hurts. Unless the thing we're worried about their being a fan of is story structure, characterization, plotting... that sorta stuff.
But I don't buy the argument that a fan of a property is somehow, even incrementally, better suited to make that property than anyone else, all things being equal.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
I had no idea that Listen was so divisive. That is tied with Blink for the best episode of New Who for me, and might take #1 as time goes on. It has the nice emotional punch that Blink didn't have.
Are you watching it for the first time? If it is the first time why not just watch them all?
Rimon-hanit
Member
While the end of time isn't a very good DW episode or even a very good piece of writing, it had a lot of the right elements, but the idea the story was constructed around was weak.
A couple of scenes did serve well as a farewell letter for Ten/nant, but that in itself however might of been redundant given the 3 episodes that preceded it.
As for the current episodes, I normally divide the Doctor Who episodes I like into two categories, great self contained fiction and episodes that relay on established Doctor Who lore for their merit (and those with overlap between the two obviously), this episode sits firmly in the second category, more so then any other Moffat episode I can think of.
EDIT-List Time:
1) Listen
2) Time Heist (I don't care, it's a fun episode to watch)
3) Flatline
4) Kill the Moon
5) Dark Water/Death in Heaven
A couple of scenes did serve well as a farewell letter for Ten/nant, but that in itself however might of been redundant given the 3 episodes that preceded it.
As for the current episodes, I normally divide the Doctor Who episodes I like into two categories, great self contained fiction and episodes that relay on established Doctor Who lore for their merit (and those with overlap between the two obviously), this episode sits firmly in the second category, more so then any other Moffat episode I can think of.
EDIT-List Time:
1) Listen
2) Time Heist (I don't care, it's a fun episode to watch)
3) Flatline
4) Kill the Moon
5) Dark Water/Death in Heaven
Rimon-hanit
Member
DP.
It is a GLORIOUS EPISODE that has one of the shitiest endings of a doctor who episode I can remember.
I mean the
not explaining shit
retconning doctor's childhoot to put clara all over the place
jack_package_200
Banned
Is the new episode not available to legally stream anywhere?
PhoncipleBone
Banned
The not explaining shit (sorry, it aired last year. Statute for spoilers is past) is one of the things I loved about it.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Almost at the end of season 3, lovin it.
Thanks!
I suppose I could. I was more concerned with catching up, really. I figured I'd go back to watch the less than stellar eps later.
TBH it's taken me longer to get through the Matt Smith episodes than I thought. I found the transition between show runners to be pretty jarring at first, took a break from watching for a while. But I've warmed up to the newer stuff.
I would actually argue with only one of these, and it's Rings of Akhaten. Plot-wise, it's not a super important episode, but it has some lovely music and a really good speech from Eleven. It's not the best episode, but I kind of adore it.
It's also fun because a couple of the other Doctors have done their own readings of the speech at Comic-cons. (Colin Baker and Paul McGann, at least,) so it's fun to see how they would have approached it.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Why on earth is June Whitfield randomly in End of Time. Why was that ever a thing.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Power of Three felt like a two-parter condensed into 42 minutes.
She just wanted to feeel David Tennant's bum.
I thought listen was awful. I was convinced they were skipping scenes in the original showing. Disjointed mess!
APZonerunner
Member
Calling in as one of those people who thinks Listen goes down the toilet in as soon as they reach the barn but thinks The End of Time is actually quite good. Ahem
In seriousness - The End of Time is not necessarily a string of events that add up to a good story, but it is a string of hefty emotional scenes that are really rather brilliant (mostly between either the Doctor and Wilf or the Doctor and the Master) that really make the episode sing. The actual story is very run-of-the-mill, but I do think that the tentpole scenes it's constructed around are in terms of dialogue, motivation and all that some of the very best the show has done. The stuff in the cafe in part one and on the ship in part two is sublime.
Interestingly I do feel like this has become the regeneration story template, since Time of the Doctor is exactly the same - a string of events that on their own would be crap, but punctuated with whatever that writers' hallmark is. For RTD it was those emotional character scenes in mundane, everyday surroundings, for Moffat it was clever heroics, montages of the Doctor beating lots of different enemies, etc - and that elevates the story above its base building blocks in both instances.
EDIT: Apart from the blowjob joke I like Love & Monsters as well
In seriousness - The End of Time is not necessarily a string of events that add up to a good story, but it is a string of hefty emotional scenes that are really rather brilliant (mostly between either the Doctor and Wilf or the Doctor and the Master) that really make the episode sing. The actual story is very run-of-the-mill, but I do think that the tentpole scenes it's constructed around are in terms of dialogue, motivation and all that some of the very best the show has done. The stuff in the cafe in part one and on the ship in part two is sublime.
Interestingly I do feel like this has become the regeneration story template, since Time of the Doctor is exactly the same - a string of events that on their own would be crap, but punctuated with whatever that writers' hallmark is. For RTD it was those emotional character scenes in mundane, everyday surroundings, for Moffat it was clever heroics, montages of the Doctor beating lots of different enemies, etc - and that elevates the story above its base building blocks in both instances.
EDIT: Apart from the blowjob joke I like Love & Monsters as well
Love & Monsters did that long before End of Time.
Ventilaator
Banned
ClivePwned
Member
I liked that it didn't explain anything. Ambiguity can be intriguing in this case. What made me just switch off was sticking Clara into the Doctor's childhood and having her give this big speech to inspire him to be the man he is now or whatever. It just felt too much like a Mary Sue fanfic moment and it really didn't add anything.
At least we don't have farting aliens anymore.. I almost didn't become addicted cause of how stupid and dumb 1st season could get. Ended skipping to 11th Doctor start (I liked the promo + red head was cute). Loved the series ever since.
Of course, did end up going back and loving season 3 & 4. (Some from 1 & 2 too).
I think Turn Left is my favorite pre 11th Doctor episode.
Of course, did end up going back and loving season 3 & 4. (Some from 1 & 2 too).
I think Turn Left is my favorite pre 11th Doctor episode.