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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons

Boem

Member
So I've only seen the NuWho series, not any of the originals. Has the master ever been as much as a quasi-companion as Missy is here? I feel her role is being the evil Doctor when she's with Clara, but when both she and the Doctor are in the room together, and they're working toward the same goal, then it's a different vibe.

I wouldn't call it quasi-companion, but yeah, that's from the old series. The Master has always been an evil maniac who would be willing to destroy an entire planet, but he has always been portrayed as an old friend of the Doctor, who he looks up to and admires a lot. Most of his plans were very much aimed at destroying the Doctor, but whenever they got in a room together they would start talking like old university mates. Very much the vibe you'd get in old Bond movies whenever he would sit at a dinner table with a villain.

Usually the Master would have some insane elaborate scheme with some other alien race, who would turn against him and then he'd have to work with the Doctor to sort out his own mess. There have definitely been a lot of scenes of them working together.

In fact, even though his schemes were often far too elaborate and he'd be far more successful if he would just make a more straightforward plan, they would often work okay for him, and he would only start fucking it up when he realizes the Doctor has shown up. He pretty much abandons his entire plan at that point to focus purely on getting the Doctor. The obsession is real with that guy. Moffat used to joke that the Master's secret history with the Doctor (which has never been confirmed, just hinted at) was that the Master was obviously in love with the Doctor, but that the Master was the kind of guy who would not only never consider himself as being gay, the very fact that that was an option would never enter his head. He would just be totally oblivious to what his feelings for the Doctor meant, he just had this inexplicable lifelong desire to find and blow up the Doctor, which he could have done a thousand times if he would just stop sweet talking him whenever he finally finds him and instead just shoots him in the face.

From the moment I read that on, the interactions between Delgado and Pertwee have only become more beautiful. It just fits so perfectly. The theory mostly just fits those two incarnations of the Master and the Doctor though - it's not a direction I want the modern series to take. But as an unspoken undertone of the Third Doctor era it's just perfect.

I also think that (awesome) Missy speech about her friendship with the Doctor was a deliberate reference to that, as the unofficial Moffat-Master theory is pretty well known in fan circles, and doing that with a female Master and male Doctor would change the entire tone of the series. It's good that he did that.
 
That would be very funny.

"The Doctor's true name is... Who."
"...wait what."

I'd love if there was another big Moffat plot about the Doctor's true name, played completely seriously, they reveal that it's Who, and there's a "Who's on first" skit that goes on for several minutes with Clara or whoever trying to wrap her brain around this.
 

Moff

Member
I feel kinda sorry for Capaldi. I love him as an actor and he could easily be the best Doctor since the reboot, but his material is just not good.
I did not like the 2 new episodes at all, but I hope that's just because I never liked the epic stories and always prefered the small, smart stories.
I hate daleks
 
I remember that episode getting a lot of hate. I always thought it was very good though.

Meh, every Doctor Who episode gets a lot of hate, I think it was well crafted throughout, I actually like the fact the NeoGAF Doctor Who community is overly critical, a lot of the shows OT's are really annoying echo chambers with inside memes.

I feel kinda sorry for Capaldi. I love him as an actor and he could easily be the best Doctor since the reboot, but his material is just not good.
I did not like the 2 new episodes at all, but I hope that's just because I never liked the epic stories and always prefered the small, smart stories.
I hate daleks

I don't think his episodes aren't good, but I agree he didn't have any monumental show defining episodes yet, I actually think the first episode of the season was the strongest he had yet but the second part just didn't deliver on the premise.

Even with the weaker materiel I like him more the Matt and Eccleston.
 

MrBadger

Member
If they're gonna spring for a fuckin' mini-series I want that proposed Eighth Doctor thing before we get start running Michelle Gomez into the dirt.

The eighth Doctor is great, it's just his movie that sucks. I'd be all over this.

Can't see a full show about Missy working though. Let's remember that she's still a murderous psychopath and also the Master. She's no protagonist.
 

Vibranium

Banned
If they're gonna spring for a fuckin' mini-series I want that proposed Eighth Doctor thing before we get start running Michelle Gomez into the dirt.

You hit the nail on the head, Bobby.

Paul McGann deserves his chance to shine, they could even have a lower budget for all I care, I just want to see him in a mini-series.
 

Quick

Banned
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/doctor-whos-steven-moffat-wanted-k9-for.html

Moffat almost had K-9 during the last Christmas Special, and he talks about leaving:

Doctor Who's Lead Writer and Executive Producer Steven Moffat has been chatting exclusively to UK television listings magazine, TV & Satellite Week. During the interview Steven was asked about a return for for former companion K-9, to which he replied:

"I love K-9! I nearly put him in Last Christmas.

I had a whole scene where the Doctor was pointing out how ludicrous Santa Claus is, having a reindeer with a glowing nose and so on... and then in comes K-9.

Completely daft, but he's brilliant. I'm totally up for K-9 when we have the right idea."

Steven, who also hints at a project outside Doctor Who and Sherlock (but is currently too busy for for a while), also discusses leaving the show:

"I thought I'd be gone by now, to be honest. I thought I would get tired by it, and of it. But I haven't. If anything, I think I cope with the stress and fatigue better than I used to.

So I take it a year at a time. But they might decide that they've had enough of me and kick me out!"

It's its own little paragraph, but Moffat describes Clara's exit as "traumatic":

Steven also goes on to describe Clara's exit in Doctor Who Series 9 as "traumatic" and does not rule out a return for the Mondasian Cybermen, stating it's not "impossible". The full interview can be read in the current issue of TV & Satellite Week, on sale now.
 

tomtom94

Member
If they do end up doing a reduced episode count next year, which seems to be the case, then I can't see Moffat passing up the opportunity to do a proper Classic Who-style serial/miniseries.
 

Ophelion

Member
The eighth Doctor is great, it's just his movie that sucks. I'd be all over this.

Can't see a full show about Missy working though. Let's remember that she's still a murderous psychopath and also the Master. She's no protagonist.

That's what I'm saying. In order to even do a mini-series they'd have to find a way to keep her on a leash. Like if Gallifrey did return at the end of this season, I could see a Missy: Agent of Gallifrey mini-series working where the Time Lords in all their arrogance try to use Missy as a weapon in places they dare not tread. Kinda like they tried to do with the Fourth Doctor from time to time. Doctor would not put up with their shit these days. They need a new fall guy. Maybe force some kind of uptight bean-counting square along for the ride so Missy has someone to horrify with her antics. It's important to have someone to react.
 
I can't believe at one point we had Doctor Who, The Sarah Jane Adventures, and Torchwood all going on.

I would love another spinoff, especially for during the breaks between seasons.
 

Chariot

Member
Now about a premise about Missy "playing Doctor". Trying to abide by his rules and doing what he does. But Missy as she is still Missy and hijinx occur.

Regarding Clara, I am still in for Clarlek x Cyber Danny
 
If they do end up doing a reduced episode count next year, which seems to be the case, then I can't see Moffat passing up the opportunity to do a proper Classic Who-style serial/miniseries.

Where has it been said that series ten will be shorter? Or are they splitting it up?
 

ZoddGutts

Member
Wasn't much of a fan of these first two eps. The whole Doctor and Davros thing felt so dragged out and obvious as to what Davros would do. The whole Doctor and Kid Davros was obvious as well, that the Doctor would save him. They're are really ruining Missy at this point by overexposing her too. Overall these two eps were a C+.
 

MrBadger

Member
That's what I'm saying. In order to even do a mini-series they'd have to find a way to keep her on a leash. Like if Gallifrey did return at the end of this season, I could see a Missy: Agent of Gallifrey mini-series working where the Time Lords in all their arrogance try to use Missy as a weapon in places they dare not tread. Kinda like they tried to do with the Fourth Doctor from time to time. Doctor would not put up with their shit these days. They need a new fall guy. Maybe force some kind of uptight bean-counting square along for the ride so Missy has someone to horrify with her antics. It's important to have someone to react.

So in order for a Missy show to work, she needs a Morty.

I can't believe at one point we had Doctor Who, The Sarah Jane Adventures, and Torchwood all going on.

I would love another spinoff, especially for during the breaks between seasons.

Yeah me too, and then seeing them all come together for the S4 finale was something I really enjoyed. Who/what is there in current Who to do a spinoff about in the vain of Torchwood, that could be different in tone to the current show? The Paternoster Gang? River Song? Because I can see a Master series being short lived due to her importance to the main series (and the fact she's the villain) and another show about a previous Doctor wouldn't really be different enough, I feel. Although something starring the 8th Doctor is something I want.

Never going to happen.

It could. Her boyfriend the soldier is pretty dead.
 

Ophelion

Member
So in order for a Missy show to work, she needs a Morty.

I mean...yeah, pretty much. It's essentially what the companion is to the Doctor also. Although, I can't imagine any "companion" of the Master's having anything other than a completely antagonistic relationship. Friendemies. I mean, her best friends is the Doctor and whenever she meets him, she tries to kill him...though actually, now that I think of it, it would be kind of fun for her "companion" to be kind of...Lawful Evil? Someone interested in reigning her in for a rules-based reason, but no less interested in getting her killed than she is in killing them. An intense mini-series long game of Cat and Also-Cat!

Yeah me too, and then seeing them all come together for the S4 finale was something I really enjoyed. Who/what is there in current Who to do a spinoff about in the vain of Torchwood, that could be different in tone to the current show? The Paternoster Gang? River Song? Because I can see a Master series being short lived due to her importance to the main series (and the fact she's the villain) and another show about a previous Doctor wouldn't really be different enough, I feel. Although something starring the 8th Doctor is something I want.

UNIT? Yeah, that's pretty much it. And we all want an 8th Doctor thing. All dozen of us.
 

tomtom94

Member
Pfft, the current series has loads of spin-off ideas:

ON THE PINK - In this zany sitcom, for reasons unknown, an amateur snooker player has become haunted by the ghost of Danny Pink! Hijinks ensue.

STRAX'S SONTARAN SUPPLEMENTS - following the demise of Horrible Histories there must be a gap in the market here.

FORK HANDLES - Handles the disembodied Cyber-head is found by Ronnie Corbett. Together, they fight crime!

etc
 

Ashodin

Member
Clara's not gonna die, she's going to get trapped inside a time locked event that the doctor can't ever fix

ie Amy and Rory
 
Oh it's the middle of the week so I suppose list time is okay.

I love Listen. It's obvious Hugo material (though for the first time an Orphan Black episode deservedly carried away the rocket). It's a good example of why I count Moffat as the single best television writer in British SF.

Moffat's own Jamie Mathieson's Flatline and Frank Cottrell Boyce's exquisite In the Forest of the Night also stood out. In all, the only disappointing episode in my opinion was Kill the Moon, but in the early Davies series that would probably have stood out too. It's not a bad episode, it's just not as well-paced as Time Heist and Mummy.

The early episodes had a McGuffin that appeared to be based on the cannibalistic robots of The Girl in the Fireplace. That gave us a grounding that helped to establish Twelve, though in the event I think Peter Capaldi didn't need it. Robin of Sherwood was the great comic number.

The blockbuster ending was everything I could have hoped for. I think we nearly all love the way Michelle brandishes her Scottishness as the powerful Timelord weapon it undoubtedly is.

After the Amy/Rory/River stories ended, Jenna Coleman provided a safe pair of hands for the transition to Twelve. I'll miss her.
 

Link Man

Banned
The false ending to Last Christmas would be perfectly bittersweet for Clara. Kind of a shame it didn't stick.

Actually, kind of still miss the quirky genius side of Clara that we saw in Asylum of the Daleks, real Clara hasn't really exhibited that side a lot in my opinion.

Also, this has probably been discussed, but I just caught up with the series:
In Listen, the time traveler at the end of the universe is implied to be descended from Clara and Danny, how is that supposed to work out now?
 

Quick

Banned
Also, this has probably been discussed, but I just caught up with the series:
In Listen, the time traveler at the end of the universe is implied to be descended from Clara and Danny, how is that supposed to work out now?

Time can be rewritten.
 
They wouldn't do it but I still want Clara's death to be caused by the Great Intelligence popping up from nowhere again. Saving the Doctor one last time, as was always her fate. He told her it'd kill her, it just took a while.
 
In Listen, the time traveler at the end of the universe is implied to be descended from Clara and Danny, how is that supposed to work out now?

Time can be rewritten.

Ehem..

It's never said that it's Clara and Danny that he's a descendant of. He could actually be a descendant of another member of the Pink lineage. If I remember correctly, I believe it's canon that Gwyneth from "The Unquiet Dead" is an ancestor of Gwen Cooper from Torchwood. So that leaves an option of Clara marrying someone else from the Pink lineage or even just someone else from the Pink lineage becoming a companion at some point.
 

Tregard

Soothsayer
McGann gets a spin-off before Missy or I riot.

Also, did the Doctor mysteriously getting a cup of tea and the explanation just being Moffated away annoy anyone else?
 

mclem

Member
The scripts would have to be fucking sparkling and they'd have to think of a way to make it more than just Missy murdering her way across the cosmos.

Revenge. Give her that as a goal, and it can potentially give her motivation to be 'good' ("No! I Ha'ent turned GUUD!") in hasty alliances for long enough to carry a storyline, yet still keep her essentially assholish nature.
 

mclem

Member
I'd love if there was another big Moffat plot about the Doctor's true name, played completely seriously, they reveal that it's Who, and there's a "Who's on first" skit that goes on for several minutes with Clara or whoever trying to wrap her brain around this.

"Who's on first"
"What's on second?"
"Casualty"
 

Magwik

Banned
Why is nobody discussing what Missy could possibly be up to on Skaro with the daleks. That seemed like pretty good season finale bait to me
 

Bluth54

Member
Why is nobody discussing what Missy could possibly be up to on Skaro with the daleks. That seemed like pretty good season finale bait to me

Honestly I doubt the Daleks would be interested in teaming up with Missy. And I doubt Missy would be interested in teaming up with the Daleks (unless she was using them some how or as a way to avoid them killing her).
 

tomtom94

Member
Radio Times reviewer's thoughts on the next episode. I can't tell how big the spoiler is, so click that tag at your own risk.

Under the Lake is spooky and blessed with haunting imagery, but even by Doctor Who's standards feels derivative. Perhaps we've seen one too many
isolated HQs with crews assailed by monstrous versions of themselves.
... He [Toby Whithouse] knows his Who, so there's hope that next week's concluding part will complement and bolster this opener.
 

Ophelion

Member
Radio Times reviewer's thoughts on the next episode. I can't tell how big the spoiler is, so click that tag at your own risk.

Yep. Saw the preview for next week and could already tell it's a story that when I get to the end, I'll say to myself, "Well...that sure was an episode of Doctor Who."

Not good, not bad. Just more Who. Which is never a bad thing itself, just not in any way inspiring or hype worthy.
 
ON THE PINK - In this zany sitcom, for reasons unknown, an amateur snooker player has become haunted by the ghost of Danny Pink! Hijinks ensue.

wdIOAkX.jpg
.
 
Yep. Saw the preview for next week and could already tell it's a story that when I get to the end, I'll say to myself, "Well...that sure was an episode of Doctor Who."

Not good, not bad. Just more Who. Which is never a bad thing itself, just not in any way inspiring or hype worthy.
I'm looking forward to it. It definitely seems traditional, but this team does trad very well- look at Mummy on the Orient Express, or even (to a lesser extent) Flatline.
 
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