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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons

A

APZonerunner

Member
I wonder if Moffat has it in him to do a good working class companion... all of his body of work is so middle class, right through to even Press Gang where you can tell they're all posh kids in the way they're written. Be interesting to see.
 
G

GSR

Member
Well, that was definitely a hit-and-miss pair of episodes, but if you take it as an excuse to let Capaldi and Coleman show off their acting chops, it hits the nail on the head.

As an aside: how many people read Alasdair Wilkins' reviews for the AV Club? I find myself agreeing with him on a lot of stuff, but I can't shake the feeling he's got something of a four-point scale. (He's been covering the show since The Snowmen, and only given two grades lower than a B in that time.) I did enjoy his re-reviews of series 1-3 they ran in 2013-2014, though.
 
M

M.Bluth

Member
tonysidaway said:
Sometimes Americans use the term middle class where a British person might say working class. There seems to be an odd clash of terms there. Maybe that's at the heart of this confusion.
Click to expand...

I don't think so, I mean some occupations might be considered one way or the other depending on the context, but I don't feel there's a big different. Anyway, Razmos already mentioned Digital Spy had a typo.

Personally, I'm saddened by them ruling out Faye Marsay's return. But I'm very curious to see what direction they take with the next companion, who's probably gonna be Moffat's last, if not Capaldi's as well.
 
P

Philippo

Member
Ok this was a great episode.
Predictable (i mean, after a while into Who, you know the box is going to be empty and Zygella is going to turn into Osgood), but it set the stage for Capaldi's best performance since the beginning, i mean i got legit chills, this was his Voyage of the Damned/Pandorica Opens. And Jenna too, great acting as always, shame her "new" character got better lines than Clara usually gets.
Also, is it just me or this is Moffat's most RTD-esque season of all?

RIP Sexy Evil Clara, we barely knew ye
 
W

wetflame

Pizza Dog
If what people are speculating is true and Clara has already died from the perspective of The Doctor, then why did he react as though Clara had died during that last episode when he already presumably knows when and how that would happen?
 
R

Razmos

Member
wetflame said:
If what people are speculating is true and Clara has already died from the perspective of The Doctor, then why did he react as though Clara had died during that last episode when he already presumably knows when and how that would happen?
Click to expand...
Because Wibbly wobbly timey wimey, the past can change. Even though he knows when she died from his perspective, him going back in time could get her killed even earlier.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
wetflame said:
then why did he react as though Clara had died during that last episode when he already presumably knows when and how that would happen?
Click to expand...

It's possible the reaction wasn't "Oh no, Clara died" but "WTF is going on, this is NOT when she dies," too.

Or we're all just speculating down the wrong track. That too.
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
wetflame said:
If what people are speculating is true and Clara has already died from the perspective of The Doctor, then why did he react as though Clara had died during that last episode when he already presumably knows when and how that would happen?
Click to expand...

I don't think he did. On the one hand, he had to pretend he believed her to be dead so Osgood wouldn't suspect he knew something she didn't, and his general mood being down about it would make sense if he's sort of visiting her in the past as a way to forget about her death and yet is still reminded of it when she's put in danger.
 
H

hamchan

Member
Another little line that could hint at the Doctor already seeing Clara die was after the Doctor and Osgood parachuted out of the plane:

Osgood: "Never really met Clara. Pretty strong yeah?"

Doctor: "She was amazing"

Osgood: "Not was, is."

And don't say it was because the Doctor took Bonnie at her word that she killed Clara. We all know the Doctor wouldn't believe that at all until he saw a body.
 
B

BrokenFiction

Member
hamchan said:
Another little line that could hint at the Doctor already seeing Clara die was after the Doctor and Osgood parachuted out of the plane:

Osgood: "Never really met Clara. Pretty strong yeah?"

Doctor: "She was amazing"

Osgood: "Not was, is."

And don't say it was because the Doctor took Bonnie at her word that she killed Clara. We all know the Doctor wouldn't believe that at all until he saw a body.
Click to expand...

The line that Osgood never met Clara felt like a continuity error. Pretty sure they met in Day of the Doctor, however briefly. In addition, according to Kate, Clara had visited the Black Archive several times and had her memory erased, so there was a good chance Osgood met her then too.
 
G

Guri

Member
Capaldi might really surpass Matt Smith as my favourite Doctor. Also, Jenna has been amazing in the last few episodes. She deserves better than how she was on seasons 7 and 8. Episode is definitely better than Kill the Moon, which was a nightmare I want to forget, and a good serial overall. I love slow-paced stories.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
BrokenFiction said:
The line that Osgood never met Clara felt like a continuity error. Pretty sure they met in Day of the Doctor, however briefly. In addition, according to Kate, Clara had visited the Black Archive several times and had her memory erased, so there was a good chance Osgood met her then too.
Click to expand...

"met her" meaning "gotten to know" in my parlance
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
BrokenFiction said:
The line that Osgood never met Clara felt like a continuity error. Pretty sure they met in Day of the Doctor, however briefly. In addition, according to Kate, Clara had visited the Black Archive several times and had her memory erased, so there was a good chance Osgood met her then too.
Click to expand...

She wouldn't have remembered her, though.

And maybe it's because "the other one" met her.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
BrokenFiction said:
The line that Osgood never met Clara felt like a continuity error. Pretty sure they met in Day of the Doctor, however briefly. In addition, according to Kate, Clara had visited the Black Archive several times and had her memory erased, so there was a good chance Osgood met her then too.
Click to expand...

"Never really met" means never really got to know. Of course they met but it's not like they kept in touch after Day of the Doctor.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Just finished. Wow. That speech might be Capaldi's defining moment as the Doctor. Also wow at Jenna Coleman. She 100% made me believe the evil Clara character. She really proved her acting worth in this episode. Like, damn. Evil Clara is a more compelling and better acted character than regular Clara.

Great episode after a slow first part.
 
N

Not

Banned
I finally caught up on these with my wife, GAF. I can finally enter this thread.

I bet I'm late, but I love the Doctor's new outfit. He looks cool as hell.

My wife hates Matt Smith-- thinks he's annoying. She's also not interested in David Tennant. But Peter Capaldi-- can't get enough. I think I'm right with her: even though I found the last two Doctors pretty watchable, they don't come close to #12.
 
T

Trike

Member
Exterminieren said:
There was indeed, and it's my favourite of the series so far, but I'm glad I didn't see it until afterwards- it's a little spoilery as to the nature of the Osgood box.

CTMtUNuWwAAaAFx.jpg
Click to expand...

Awesome, thank you
 
M

M.Bluth

Member
Platy said:
Schrodinger's Osgood !

Emergency Awesome has a theory that the 5 months thing is about how Doctor had to delete the memory of everyone in that room SO MANY TIMES to get it right that lots of time passed
Click to expand...

I believe he said "longest month of my life", and I don't know if we should really take it literally. At this point, I think he just knows she's dying soon rather than he actually experienced her death and is visiting her before it...
As for wiping everyone's memories, he said to Kate something like "Yeah, that's what you've said for the last 15 times." That line is clearly a joke.
 
O

Ophelion

Member
For the record, in televised episodes only two companions have actually for real perished while under the Doctor's Duty of Care. Katarina, a brief companion of the First Doctor got blown out an airlock and most famously Adric was on the ship that crashed into the earth and killed the dinosaurs. Everybody else has either made it out more or less in one piece or "died" in such a way that they are dead to the Doctor, but actually lived full, semi-normal lives somewhere out there in the cosmos.
 
J

Jest Chillin

Member
Loved this two parter. The second half actually started to feel pretty grim. Doctor's speech was great. Really loved it. I actually want to rewatch it to see if I can tell which Osgood is Human and which isn't.
 
F

Fine Ham Abounds

Member
Episode was a bit of a characterization mess for everyone but the Doctor, but the dialog was so good, and then it ties it up with a bow giving Capaldi a chance to have some more decent material to work with. I really thought the first part was silly, but I enjoyed this quite a bit even if almost nothing happened and the plot felt like it just sorta coasted in the background like a vague fever dream. Speech was a bit much and way too long, but Capaldi really sold it.

Easily put this with the Davros two parter still behind the ghost episodes as my highlights so far this year. Really happy to see Capaldi's development and have more than a couple episodes I've enjoyed in a year for a change.
 
8

8bit

Knows the Score
Don't know if it was mentioned, but there are some nice screens from the Lego Dimensions Doctor Who pack courtesy of JoeM86.

http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=184655924&postcount=845

JoeM86 said:
Not that long no. Probably about 90 minutes or so. The overworld is where it's at

Of course, suppose it makes sense, wearing a bit thin. I hope the ears are a bit less conspicuous this time.
WVW69ijdWmgkH11dXb

You were fantastic, and you know what? So was I!
WVW69ijdTnU5hDhYPc

"I don't want to go"
WVW69ijdKgcsApGxWo

"I'll not forget one line of this; I swear. I'll always remember when the Doctor was me."
WVW69ijdREohUERpdm


Edit: I managed to screw the game up by spawning the TARDIS inside the TARDIS and trying to regenerate. Had me fall through the floor
Click to expand...
 
B

Bluth54

Member
WrenchNinja said:
SJ63ZIu.gif


pls dont be dead. i was just starting to like you this season.
Click to expand...

Even if they do kill her off I hope that if she's willing to eventually come back as a guest star in an episode or two they bring her back as one of the many clones that were created when she entered the Doctor's timeline.

It's too bad they never had Clara meet one of her clones, they did it in a Doctor Who magazine comic and it would of probably made for an interesting episode premise.
 
T

Team Filler

Member
That was fantastic! Really loved this two-parter, and Capaldi's whole speech and performance at the end was incredible and I feel has been his crowning moment in his run so far.
 
S

Symphonia

Banned
Red Arremer said:
It's a mix between the pre-McGann TARDIS and the revival series'.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it was featured very briefly during Day Of The Doctor. I love how rough and battered it looks inside and out. That spin-off should've been a mini-series about the War Doctor, not a crappy school full of monsters.
 
M

mclem

Member
Razmos said:
I think for me it was the way he delivered the line rather than the wording itself, but I could be reading it wrong and it really was just him not coping well with the idea of her dying. It's just a theory
Click to expand...

It's not just that, I think there was an intent outlined in that chat between him and Osgood about hope (with Osgood correcting him from "Clara was" to "Clara is"). It's preying on his mind, and I don't think he'd ordinarily default to the past tense.

I wonder if it's possible that he knows she dies but doesn't know how at the moment. Which does open up the possibility of him being mistaken.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
The best thing about it is the level of detail. Look at the First Doctor's TARDIS

WVW69ijnC8YxEcSHi_


The back walls are clearly cloth, just like the set. There's also the crack in the universe in the Eleventh Doctor's TARDIS. Ten has his spare hand in the jar. Lots of small things :)
 
M

mclem

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
How many companions have died, period, though? Not many. Doesn't happen all that often.

I think since the series came back, it's just Jack, right?
Click to expand...

Astrid Peth hasn't been mentioned yet. YMMV whether she counts, to be fair, but I think 'name in the intro' is good enough in my book.
 
M

mclem

Member
Stallion Dan said:
So the Zygon Osgood was the one who died, since to make another (third) Osgood requires a human one to copy.
Click to expand...

I wondered that, but that suggests that Zygons are so specialised that they can only copy humans, which seems implausible. Otherwise, why can't Zygons copy Zygons?
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
JoeM86 said:
The best thing about it is the level of detail. Look at the First Doctor's TARDIS

The back walls are clearly cloth, just like the set. There's also the crack in the universe in the Eleventh Doctor's TARDIS. Ten has his spare hand in the jar. Lots of small things :)
Click to expand...

Love this so much. :)

Stallion Dan said:
So the Zygon Osgood was the one who died, since to make another (third) Osgood requires a human one to copy.
Click to expand...

It's implied at the end dialogue as well (since the Doctor asks which one is which), however, they also kinda elaborated that the Osgoods were special cause they had formed some sort of bond as well that goes beyond the Zygon copying a shape.
 
C

ClivePwned

Member
you motherfuckers will make me throw down $50 for the Lego Dimensions Dr Who pack (90 minutes gameplay).
I can't resist because I'm so weak and feeble.

so very weak and utterly feeble.
 
8

8bit

Knows the Score
ClivePwned said:
you motherfuckers will make me throw down $50 for the Lego Dimensions Dr Who pack (90 minutes gameplay).
I can't resist because I'm so weak and feeble.

so very weak and utterly feeble.
Click to expand...

If it's anything like the Portal 2 level pack it's 90 minutes gameplay and then a themed open world to tool about in.

PS, you should buy the Portal 2 one.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Asked on Gallifrey Base and got an answer

The 4th Doctor has two different TARDIS console rooms in the the game. His main one is from season 13, and the other one is the secondary console room from season 14.

You can only access the secondary console room on dates that are a multiple of 4. For exmaple you can set the date on your console to '04/12/2015' and the next time you go inside the TARDIS as the 4th Doctor it should have changed to the secondary console room.
Click to expand...

ClivePwned said:
you motherfuckers will make me throw down $50 for the Lego Dimensions Dr Who pack (90 minutes gameplay).
I can't resist because I'm so weak and feeble.

so very weak and utterly feeble.
Click to expand...

Haha, this is the whole reason I got the game. I was doing my best to resist (big fan of the LEGO titles, not so much the money grabbingness of toys-to-life games), but then this came. Doctor Who is the whole reason I bought it.
 
C

Ceej

Member
I feel rather mixed on the speech... It is undeniably awesome with amazing delivery by Capaldi... But I really have a difficult time reconciling it from the same man who not three episodes ago trained an army to win the hell out of a war, and who tried to talk and reason but knew sometimes you have to stop the monsters. I think the writing here was a little too absolutist against war.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
Ceej said:
I feel rather mixed on the speech... It is undeniably awesome with amazing delivery by Capaldi... But I really have a difficult time reconciling it from the same man who not three episodes ago trained an army to win the hell out of a war, and who tried to talk and reason but knew sometimes you have to stop the monsters. I think the writing here was a little too absolutist against war.
Click to expand...

I think it is about context. That training involved defending a medieval village from a space-army invasion.

In this episode, it was about two nations in peace plus someone trying to start a fire. Radically different scenarios.
 
K

Kurdel

Banned
I think season 9 is slowly turning season 8 bad, concerning Peter Capaldi's Doctor.

It really feels like two different Doctors, with the current cool version being my favorite ever. I really enjoyed the semi-autism spectrum Doctor, but having him be this emotional in season 9 has been a home run.

trudderham said:
Could it finally be happening?!

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/heaven-sent-official-synopsis-77809.htm
Click to expand...

Season 10 would be a nice marking point for
having Gallifrey return.
 
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