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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons

If you're ruining things here I'm not very happy.

For various reasons.

Don't look at me, I spoiler tagged my talk with a comment about what it was for!

And here's a spoilered comment about what I think with regard to the outfit:

Possible splinter of Clara that the Doctor finds? From another one of his timelines?
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I'd been avoiding all spoilers, and the series has just got interesting.

I'll just sit here doing my best angry Capaldi look at MouldyK for the time being.
 
Man. That got me. I shed a tear. Really fantastic throughout.

I love the idea of, essentially, a space refugee camp that's run by a slightly malevolent mayor like something out of a western. I think, had this not been a companion exit episode, there would've been some cool extra stuff they could've touched upon - I was kind of expecting the teleportation bracelet to be a Pandorica-esque trap set up by all the aliens the Doctor's screwed over in his time.

But that exit. So good. And outside of I guess Martha and, at a push, Amy, probably one of the first companion exits that feels genuine to the character. I love that Clara essentially dies because she treats the whole situation like a game of chess. She wants to be Doctor levels of clever. It doesn't matter that death is at risk because that's not a thing to her. And like she says, maybe she was kinda of seeking it, which is even more dark.

I like that Moffat points out in the little Extra video that the Doctor can't really cast blame. It's not really Me's fault, and it's not really Rigsy's, and it's not really whoever wants him teleported. It's just a horrible accident done out of heroism. Which kinda makes it hurt more.
 

Slowdive

Banned
It's not really a spoiler, she's on the front cover of Doctor Who magazine in the outfit, and it says finale preview. Would be a bit weird if it was just for a photoshoot.

CTYgVc6WIAEDAr7.jpg


And there's a promo pic
of the Doctor in there.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I assumed that cover was just for the magazine referencing her leaving.

Another perfect exit buggered up would be fitting though I guess.
 
Stargate did
afterlife
-diners first... if that is the direction the are going

MctmW4m.jpg

Quantum Leap and Sapphire and Steel did too for both of those series final episodes

Yeah, that was a werid episode. I didn't like the convoluted first half, then it started to get better and then Clara's death (assuming it sticks, this is Nu Who after all) seemed a bit silly.

I'm also guessing Missy since there was a reference to the Master of the Quantum Lock thing. That and they left her up in the air and the synposis for the final ep plus I have watched a few Doctor Whos in my time.

Clara sticking her chest out to be hit by the raven, er, um, right.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I guess the good thing is this series has been so utterly useless at following through on the themes of series 8, until it suddenly remembered them all this episode and even brought back one of the characters to help, that I can always see the series as just this one episode and spare whatever fuckery that may come next.

Clara seemed like a completely different person this episode, it was fantastic and on a whole different level to the rest of the series.
 
Clara should have been written like this all series. It felt like a climax to a story that has only really half heartedly been followed up until now.

Easily the best episode of the series so far, although I do kind of wish that it had been more standalone. I thought the first half was fantastic, and whilst Clara's death was well done, I felt like it took the spotlight away a bit from a really interesting setup.
 

Saiyan-Rox

Member
Just finished watching the episode

Holy shit that was good! I'm starting to hate maisie now though her character is actually driving me nuts

Also Clara's death scene...nice choice of jumper there lmao sticking the chest out there really well XDD

I was really hoping to see the Doctor go absolute ape shit after her death too and tbh i'm still expecting it
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Clara should have been written like this all series. It felt like a climax to a story that has only really half heartedly been followed up until now.

Easily the best episode of the series so far, although I do kind of wish that it had been more standalone. I thought the first half was fantastic, and whilst Clara's death was well done, I felt like it took the spotlight away a bit from a really interesting setup.

I'd been saying for weeks that's what was missing, whoever wrote this give them a medal.

Capaldi shone as well, not just making a good speech sound even better in a story that didn't deserve it.

The character moments really elevate the stories, and when you get a nice mix of both they really stand out.
 
is there a way to add a poll?

Do we think Clara will stay dead?
aside from flashbacks, being resurrected or not dead but some bullshit reason why the Doctor is prevented from seeing her again (a la Rose, Donna, Amy and Rory).
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Capaldi exuded blind fury so effortlessly it was amazing.

Thinking back to the three other Nuwho Doctors, when they were going for an angry or furious rage moment, there was often much shouting and waving of hands or raising of voices.

Capaldi barely raised his voice for some of his angst ridden of moments there and he was the most fucking terrifying by far. He sold it. Coleman sold it. It was a great exit and now I'm kinda saddened (but open minded) she's in the cast for the next two.

is there a way to add a poll?

Do we think Clara will stay dead?
aside from flashbacks, being resurrected or not dead but some bullshit reason why the Doctor is prevented from seeing her again (a la Rose, Donna, Amy and Rory).

0084.JPG
 

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
"But I strongly advise you to keep out of my way. You'll find that it's a very small universe when I'm angry with you."

I love you Capaldi
 

Razmos

Member
lol I just saw in some comments that the name of The Sweater (tm) that Clara was wearing in this episode is called a Hybrid Shirt Jumper.
It's all a conspiracy!

"Clara, that's a nice new jumper you are wearing today. It's like a shirt and a jumper together.. like.. a hybrid" *dramatic music*
 

M.Bluth

Member
lol I just saw in some comments that the name of The Sweater (tm) that Clara was wearing in this episode is called a Hybrid Shirt Jumper.
It's all a conspiracy!

"Clara, that's a nice new jumper you are wearing today. It's like a shirt and a jumper together.. like.. a hybrid" *dramatic music*

lol, Moffat is Kojima confirmed
 
So, formulating thoughts: Overall that was an excellent episode. Wonderful acting, of course, particularly brilliant performances by Capaldi and Coleman, but the two guest stars did well as well. Williams surprised me, as I thought she was absolutely pap in her first two appearances, but she puts in a much more understated performance here to the point where perhaps I wonder if she wasn't instructed by the Director to play it down a bit to not deflect any attention from Coleman for what I do believe will be her final chronological scenes as a living character - though she will, of course, show up over the next two weeks, I have no doubt.

As far as constructive criticisms go -- I think my main problem with the "reckless Clara" and the "Clara becoming the Doctor" arc is that I can't think of too many instances in the past nine episodes before this one (or even before that) of her really being like that; there's certainly been nothing quite as obvious as when the same sort of thing happened to Rose, with her and the Doctor being gut-wrenchingly unbearable in stories like The Idiot's Lantern and The Impossible Planet and of course throughout Doomsday; it felt a lot more like Rose had earned her punishment than Clara, basically.

I can think of a single way I'd change the entire series for the better in this regard; make Ashildr Clara's mistake. Rather than the Doctor use that 'medkit' on her to bring her back to life, have Clara do it behind his back. Have her cross that line, and then in turn have Ashildr be her ultimate undoing, albeit by mistake. As it is, it never really felt like she truly crossed the line, I never had that moment where I was like "she's too far gone, they NEED to be separated" as with Rose - and I use that comparison as Martha, Donna and Amy never really went that way, any of them. Martha never got the chance, Donna was too good to end up that way (but in a sense accidentally overstepped the mark in a different way altogether in absorbing the Doctor's knowledge) and Amy had Rory to keep her grounded.
 
They have already hinted and the doctor from a previous episode had already seen clara die. Wouldnt be shocked if we see a past version of Clara before the serise is out.


And yeah. Would not bet against them pulling a rabbit out of the hat and moffit-ing up a reason for her to be alive again.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
The Doctor's "It's been an ongoing problem" line really stood out as telling you rather than us having being shown it before.

There were the tiniest of hints to her being reckless at the very start, but it didn't manifest in the stories or in her relationship with the Doctor. This series abandoned all the character arcs and themes of series 8.

Flatline was her "becoming the Doctor" story, it was quite telling Rigsy was the character brought back. That did get lost a bit by the garbage of Forest which followed it though.
 

Fireblend

Banned
Can someone clarify why Me couldn't just remove the lock from Clara? The episode was brilliant, but from what I understand Clara died from playing heroics, and otherwise she would've been fine, correct? That hurts, man. Knowing it wasn't a true sacrifice but an accident that really had no reason for happening in the first place is soul crushing. I hate it.
 

liquidtmd

Banned
Can someone clarify why Me couldn't just remove the lock from Clara?

Because reasons

It was the thing that annoyed me most - 'changing of the deal / small print' seemed very contrived in light of her apparently toddling off to just about to relieve Rigsy of it
 

Zomba13

Member
Can someone clarify why Me couldn't just remove the lock from Clara? The episode was brilliant, but from what I understand Clara died from playing heroics, and otherwise she would've been fine, correct? That hurts, man. Knowing it wasn't a true sacrifice but an accident that really had no reason for happening in the first place is soul crushing. I hate it.

She could remove it from Rigsy as he was the original target and Rigsy can pass it on (to a willing recipient) but she couldn't remove it from Clara because she could only remove it from whoever she branded. When it was passed on the "contract" was rewritten. It seems a bit stupid to me but I guess it's just djinn/genie/death logic where it's all just boring contract law and fine prints.
 
Can someone clarify why Me couldn't just remove the lock from Clara? The episode was brilliant, but from what I understand Clara died from playing heroics, and otherwise she would've been fine, correct? That hurts, man. Knowing it wasn't a true sacrifice but an accident that really had no reason for happening in the first place is soul crushing. I hate it.

The concept is that the lock is a 'contract', and by taking the lock off Rigsy, Clara cut Ashildr out of the deal and therefore she couldn't do anything to stop it.

A really mundane comparative example would be this: If I buy a product from a store, and then sell it to you (let's assume sans Proof of Purchase), in many cases you would not then be able to take it back to the store for a refund or a replacement, even if it was faulty, because you didn't buy it.

This bit isn't a plot hole, I don't think. It makes sense, it works. If we want to talk about silly stuff, what happened to the Raven? It was about fifty feet away and took 8 minutes to reach her! Did it get lost?
 

Razmos

Member
Can someone clarify why Me couldn't just remove the lock from Clara? The episode was brilliant, but from what I understand Clara died from playing heroics, and otherwise she would've been fine, correct? That hurts, man. Knowing it wasn't a true sacrifice but an accident that really had no reason for happening in the first place is soul crushing. I hate it.
Ashildr made a deal with the Quantum Shade, owing it a soul (Rigsy) but because Clara intervened it changed the terms of the deal, meaning she could no longer stop it.

Then again, now I'm confused. If she owed the shade a soul, then surely stopping Rigsy's countdown (which she was willing and able to do) would have been backing out of the deal, unless she was willing to sacrifice someone else's soul.

Regardless, yeah. Everything would have been fine if Clara hadn't intervened. Ashildr was true to her word about not harming anyone, Clara's recklessness put her in the firing line when she was never meant to be.
 

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Pretty gut wrenching that he had to leave her body lying down in the middle of the street. I assume Rigsy gave her a decent burial though.

I can think of a single way I'd change the entire series for the better in this regard; make Ashildr Clara's mistake. Rather than the Doctor use that 'medkit' on her to bring her back to life, have Clara do it behind his back. Have her cross that line, and then in turn have Ashildr be her ultimate undoing, albeit by mistake. As it is, it never really felt like she truly crossed the line, I never had that moment where I was like "she's too far gone, they NEED to be separated" as with Rose - and I use that comparison as Martha, Donna and Amy never really went that way, any of them. Martha never got the chance, Donna was too good to end up that way (but in a sense accidentally overstepped the mark in a different way altogether in absorbing the Doctor's knowledge) and Amy had Rory to keep her grounded.
Hadn't given it much thought yet, but I totally agree with this. Would have given a very different weight to the whole thing.
 
blow fish?

didn't look like it:

Retcon probably.

I think the intention this series was to build her up as being "Doctor like" so we have her thinking like the Doctor when she's with Missy, and almost successfully negotiating the aliens to leave in the VIking episode. The problem was that her acting "Doctor like" didn't really crossover with being reckless all that much. The series should have had a lot more of her taking stupid risks, with this one being her finally getting unlucky.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I don't know if it's fitting or not that Clara dies in such a pedestrian manner, based on the fact that she thinks she can get away with anything (which at least seems kind of inconsistent with the previous encounters with death and so forth).

But yeah, I guess time for a new character to replace her.
 

PaulloDEC

Member
I really liked this one, and Clara got a great send-off.

I think the whole deal with the contract... the idea that Clara signed herself up for something she knew almost nothing about under the assumption that things would "just work out", made for a great exit. She wanted to be the Doctor, coming up with clever schemes that somehow always work, but she couldn't quite pull it off.
 

Yeah, I meant specifically retcon as the name of memory drug; that's a specific Torchwood concept they use loads, after all.

I would be all for sports car blowfish making a triumphant return, though. That's one of the most gloriously dumb sequences to come out of the Who production team in all 10 years; great cold open for that series.
 
Well.

That happened.

Who was supposed to be
the new companion
? she was announced like, a year ago wasn't she?

We'll probably have to wait a while to find out, as well, as it sounds like they won't be kicking off filming for Series 9 until the Spring... based on the comments from the production boss, it sounds like he won't start work until February or March, and he would usually have two months (or more) lead in towards a new series. All this lends a fair bit of credence to the idea that we won't get all 12 episodes (or maybe even any of them? Who knows?) in 2016, though.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
The mention of the will is bugging me, can't work out whether the Davros story should come before or after this one.

Thinking of what fuckery to come, maybe the Doctor had a mental breakdown over Clara, buggered off to learn guitar, and then decided to go suicide by Davros or something.

With Missy trying to get him to kill her again just for the fun of it.
 
I'm not convinced Clara's properly dead, tbh.
She didn't get shanked or vaporized or anything. I wouldn't be surprised if her "soul" did something.
 
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