you know what's very unlike this show? They had a character who can see into the future, and didn't use her to endlessly foreshadow Clara's demise. The episode where Donna kicked it (sort of), we had two characters that would constantly remind us that someone was going to die and something bad will happen to Donna, and the Moffat run has often been even less subtle with foreshadowing.
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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
- Thread starter Quick
- Start date
Sarah Dollard, it's her first Doctor Who episode.
excelsiorlef
Member
Sarah Dollard, first episode of Doctor Who she's written. Solid outing.
paradox121
Member
I dunno, I'd argue the Clara being the Doctor arc had a fair few moments this season. Her talking down Odin in Girl Who Died stands out. And her whole interaction with Bonnie in Zygon Inversion definitely felt Doctor-y. Even little stuff like her rallying UNIT in Magician's Apprentice. And I'd say her interactions with Lunn and Cass in Before The Flood is a clear case of trying to do what the Doctor does but coming up short. I actually prefer this approach - it's not been flagged up as some huge character point, it's just been rumbling in the background.
Fair enough, each to their own. For me when you're building to someone's death you can't just rumble in the background. Or need to look back and find it.
We should have been anticipating her death this series, not waiting for it.
Yeah, definite gold star from me.
Hopefully she's back again.
Calm waterfall
Banned
Clara noooooooooooooo 
Thematically, the Clara gets more and more reckless > Clara dies because of her recklessness, and not to save the day kind of bothers me. It's too obvious, too flat. I'd be surprised to see them leave it at that. Watching her die was not a poignant experience. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. But reading this thread I kind of feel I'm in the minority.
I'd argue that's a fault of this series, not this episode.
We didn't know Clara again until this episode. You're wanting something cleverer that didn't need to be.
Not cleverer. Just a bit more engaging. I liked her character arc during this season, I just thought the recklessness would lead to some reflection on her whole death wish stuff, but nope, death by raven which could have been easily avoided. Okay? I wish it had made me care a little bit more. But I'll reserve judgement until the next episode.
ClivePwned
Member
Sarah Dollard wrote a few episodes of The Game, a criminally underrated show.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Also interesting to note for people who believe writing is secondary to directing: this episode has the same director (and other crew) as Sleep No More.
I will say that there was one thing I felt could have framed differently because of story reasons (as far as I understand any of that, which is not much): during the final conversation between Clara and the Doctor the statis pod was shown rather clearly within the frame when it switched to Capabaldi. I was practically willing to shout: put her in the goddamn stasis pod, you wanker. Which, assuming that was not intentional (like say, timey wimey rewritey later on), was somewhat inconvenient because there was a story question of 'how do we get more time' and there is a stasis pod clearly shown in the back, a clear answer to that question.
You're not. Kind of why posters here expect her to be 'back' at some point.
infiniteloop
Member
and she wrote Neighbours, yo.
The Elite
BOSS
Do people really think writing is secondary to directing on TV? With a lot of shows I can barely tell one director's style over an other since they usually need to remain consistent. I rarely notice a standout TV director. Writing and the writer's room always leads on TV.
Exactly.
I guess the way I'd see it, is it should have been us saying Clara you're reckless, you're going to die. And we should have been doing it before this episode, because that makes us care.
Instead the episode had to say it to make sure, which I can see could take its impact away depending how you view it.
We could call it, but we weren't made to feel it till a last-minute save.
For me though, what a save.
CrimsonFist
Member
Wonder if we'll revisit Coal Hill this series. Clara didn't really have anyone outside the tardis close to her so Coal Hill would be the place which her death would have the biggest impact on, outside of the Doctor.
Man that's a depressing line lol. I actually thought Clara's Dad would be a big character after Rings of Akhaten but he never appeared again.
Clara basically needed her own episode before this one like Flatline, which is the start of this story, to sell all this without being so on the nose.
Instead she went evil for it.
So you had the start and end, with no middle. She should have stole the Tardis for one episode
Instead she went evil for it.
So you had the start and end, with no middle. She should have stole the Tardis for one episode
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Hot Coldman
Banned
The Woman Who Lived seemed pretty clear that the immortality chip was cancelled out by the Eye of Hades.
CrimsonFist
Member
The Woman Who Lived left it ambiguous as to whether he actually gained immortality from that. He could just be dead.
Nah, the Doctor just made that up to make Ashildr feel better about the curse of immortality
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Clara's exit was fitting.
What was even more impressive was Capaldi's performance. Holy moly was it freaking amazing. That look of empathy as he looked at Rigsby, as you see him change his mind to save his life.
That angry speech in the end gave me shudders, Smith and Tennant couldn't pull that off. Heck, even Eccleston could do it, but nowhere near as effective as Capaldi.
If he keeps it up, he will be my favorite doctor..... Ever
What was even more impressive was Capaldi's performance. Holy moly was it freaking amazing. That look of empathy as he looked at Rigsby, as you see him change his mind to save his life.
That angry speech in the end gave me shudders, Smith and Tennant couldn't pull that off. Heck, even Eccleston could do it, but nowhere near as effective as Capaldi.
If he keeps it up, he will be my favorite doctor..... Ever
bengraven
Member
I think the Clara diner thing was just a photoshoot. "Serving up her last episode" or something. I don't think that has anything to do with the show. I think we probably have seen the last of Clara.
Maybe. I don't know.
Maybe he will see her, in some world beyond ours, in a diner serving Danny Pink some quiches.
Would be nice to see that a girl who entered the Doctor's own time stream and saved his life possibly thousands of times over 2000 years wasn't killed by a raven ghost thing in Diagon Alley.
Maybe. I don't know.
Maybe he will see her, in some world beyond ours, in a diner serving Danny Pink some quiches.
Would be nice to see that a girl who entered the Doctor's own time stream and saved his life possibly thousands of times over 2000 years wasn't killed by a raven ghost thing in Diagon Alley.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Could Clara have given the contract to the Doctor?
Not that she would have wanted to, but it seems like an option?
I mean, we couldn't be sure he'd regenerate, but he probably would?
See: The End of Time, The Angels in Manhattan + more
Not that she would have wanted to, but it seems like an option?
I mean, we couldn't be sure he'd regenerate, but he probably would?
He does it all the bloody time, especially when it comes to his companions.
See: The End of Time, The Angels in Manhattan + more
If the death is locked in, it could just bypass the regeneration I assume.
Loved the episode, but I'll face the raven myself if I have to wait any longer for the next one.
SictorVullivan
Member
What a truly fantastic episode. One of the best of Capaldi's tenure for sure.
It's really cool to see The Doctor go off the rails (hopefully even more so next week), as for Clara definitely one of the best companion exits, as long as they dont retcon (wink wink) that in the next 2 episodes.
Looks like the season will be ending as it started, extremely strong.
It's really cool to see The Doctor go off the rails (hopefully even more so next week), as for Clara definitely one of the best companion exits, as long as they dont retcon (wink wink) that in the next 2 episodes.
Looks like the season will be ending as it started, extremely strong.
I know this is a Doctor Who thread, but this is kind of related :
http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-prisoner-volume-01-1181
http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-prisoner-volume-01-1181
Michelle Gomez next companion please.
I guess they wanted to push the idea of her being too reckless until she died because of it, but honestly her death was pretty dumb, and the whole scene was dragged on for way too long. I won't be surprised if she isn't actually dead or if she somehow gets revived though.
Capaldi great as usual.
I guess they wanted to push the idea of her being too reckless until she died because of it, but honestly her death was pretty dumb, and the whole scene was dragged on for way too long. I won't be surprised if she isn't actually dead or if she somehow gets revived though.
Capaldi great as usual.
Capaldi was great again. He's definitely my favorite doctor and does anger the best imo. He really gave a great angry speech at the end.
TBH, I felt nothing about Clara's death. I've never really cared about her as a companion and it didn't help that the death scene seemed to drag on.
TBH, I felt nothing about Clara's death. I've never really cared about her as a companion and it didn't help that the death scene seemed to drag on.
Loved the bits where the Doctor threated Ashildur / Mayor Me with "I'll bring UNIT, I'll bring the Zygons, and, if you give me a minute, I'll bring the Daleks and Cybermen" and "You've heard the stories. Have you ever known anyone who was able to stop me?" .
I wonder what Clara meant by "Everything you're about to say, I already know. Don't do it now. I've already had enough bad timing"?
Also, is it just me or did the Clara/Doctor relationship went from BFF with 11 to acquaintances/frenemies with 12 to sorta BFFs again up to this episode?
I wonder what Clara meant by "Everything you're about to say, I already know. Don't do it now. I've already had enough bad timing"?
Also, is it just me or did the Clara/Doctor relationship went from BFF with 11 to acquaintances/frenemies with 12 to sorta BFFs again up to this episode?
APZonerunner
Member
I think it merely meant that, y'know, the Doctor has a bad habit of not really saying to his companions how much they mean until he knows he's almost lost them. Smith's Doctor didn't have as much problem with this, but Eccleston and Tennant certainly did (Rose and Martha both got this in different ways, then the Donna relationship was more honest); she was saying don't give me the emotional speech, I already know how you feel, and to say it now would just be bad timing.
Capaldi The GOAT said:
Hot damn, that's some soul-devouring shit from mr. Capaldi right there.
This was a good episode. Well-written, and a really cool production. Loved the design of the set, the lighting, the different characters around the street, the music (Murray, where have you been all these episodes?) and the way the scenes were directed. Great stuff. Clara-demise was predictable, but oh so bitter to watch.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
People saying "I want some Malcolm Tucker shit" it basically happened in this episode. That jaunty way he rolled up on Ashildr like "Fix it!" was classic Tucker. It seems cheerful, and it sounds cheerful, but everyone in the room knows that it's bad, and it's only going to get worse the longer he talks, and you're going to try to stop him from talking and that's only going to hasten your own demise.
Clara trying to interrupt him like 3 times in the middle of it was just extra punctuation. Worked beautifully, too.
Clara trying to interrupt him like 3 times in the middle of it was just extra punctuation. Worked beautifully, too.
Still trying to catch up, but was impossible to avoid spoilers for yesterday's episode.
Anyway, just watched Sleep No More and i don't get the ending: the last recording was before this Rassmussen guy gets killed right? I mean, i don't get how the Doctor gets rid of the Sandmen and the footage. Destroying the ship with the whole gravity thing i guess?
Anyway, just watched Sleep No More and i don't get the ending: the last recording was before this Rassmussen guy gets killed right? I mean, i don't get how the Doctor gets rid of the Sandmen and the footage. Destroying the ship with the whole gravity thing i guess?
If he'd destroyed it you wouldn't have seen it. You're a sandman now, don't worry about it until your arm starts falling off.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Murray Gold again killing it with the companion exit score. Angels Take Manhattan nearly killed me (the part where Rory and Amy jump)
Can't disagree more. I will say the score was great up until she was out on the street and then it switched into some pseudo-inspirational chord progression that felt totally all over the place.
No music or minimal Clara's theme would have felt better I feel like. The cheesy robustness of the chords really enhanced the weird-ass slow mo and "replay at different angles" of the death shot.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It triggered my emotions! It was succesful for me.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The multiple angle takes in succession worked against the moment. Absolutely.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I don't know how much of it is Jenna's fault, but she is totally half-arsedly holding her arms out. The rest of your body would react differently if you were in that much pain, you wouldn't just thrust your tits out.
I thought all this was unusualness, the slow-mo, the music, was designed to throw you off a bit actually. Because we knew what was coming. It was going for a "Maybe she will survive this" from the viewer, her face almost says she has at one point.
So when she does fall down, that last shot hits a little bit harder.
Worked well for me.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I guess. It's true that it was only when the black smoke came from her mouth I went "OH shit"
It was keeping you guessing just slightly, until bam. Yep. She's dead alright.
Agent Gibbs
Member
a beautiful set of performances and bar far the best episode they've had win Capaldi's run, man i didn't want Clara to go, but i think its final i doubt we'll get a splinter Clara, or any revival of Clara
just so chilling, the Doctor definitely wasn't there then, the War Doctor was surfacing, i'd hate to be whoever wanted him
just so chilling, the Doctor definitely wasn't there then, the War Doctor was surfacing, i'd hate to be whoever wanted him
I was thinking about the "why do they always run ?" would have any meaning .... that she would not die or something.
So ... Arya told everyone's memories would be erased when they left ... so did the Doctor forgot she died ?