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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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infiniteloop
Member
infiniteloop
Member
Well shit, I might need to buy one now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/A-New-Dimension-for-Doctor-Whos-Fiftieth-Anniversary
If you look back in this thread, I actually proposed this scenario: Doctor teams with a female companion who is later revealed to be his own future regeneration.
I still think it's a brilliant idea.
Just in time for the end of the 3D TV fad?
JonathanEx
Member
Oh good, piss money away on 3D. More wonderful management from the BBC.
(I'm not getting bitter over corporate treatment, honest. Just give me a big block of episodes, no dicking around)
(I'm not getting bitter over corporate treatment, honest. Just give me a big block of episodes, no dicking around)
APZonerunner
Member
You're right, of course, but obviously those toy sets didn't show anything actually 'new,' just them in an interesting setting. I still believe (quite probably incorrectly!) that what was pictured will happen.
Considering how the show struggles on its effects budget (and budget in general) as it is, I can't see how this is a good thing, but okay. Bleh.
And I agree with you completely.
Exterminieren
Banned
The 3D Special is being shown in cinemas, apparently, so you'd guess they'd give it an extra bit of budget.
Hell, getting cinema slots suggests to me that the Toy Fair info might be wrong and we're getting a 90 minute special after all.
Hell, getting cinema slots suggests to me that the Toy Fair info might be wrong and we're getting a 90 minute special after all.
Hype train choo choo
I know. Maybe use some of that movie to film more than five goddamn episodes a year.
Exterminieren
Banned
Moffat's series has had 14 episodes filmed every year, with a six month break after series 6. That aside, this is all perfectly standard.
There's plainly... something going on behind the scenes this year, whether it's a Doctor transition, a showrunner transition or whatever it turns out to be. Budget might play its part in that, but I have my doubts that that's the biggest single factor.
JonathanEx
Member
Fair enough on filming - but in terms of episodes aired thanks to that big break I think it's fair as a member of the audience to feel like we've lost out - particularly after last year being so bad for it.
2005: 14 eps
2006: 14 eps
2007: 14 eps
2008: 14 eps
2009: 3 eps (that sucked)
2010: 15 eps (Jan 1st - includes End of Time Pt2)
2011: 14 eps
2012: 6 eps
2013: 10 eps (8 from S3, 50th, Christmas)
EleventhDoctor
Banned
For fucks sake man-3D? just wasted money....
Hot Coldman
Banned
can't wait for that sweet sweet post-converted 3D Who love
I hope I can watch it in 2D in cinemas because holy shit that would be amazing
I hope I can watch it in 2D in cinemas because holy shit that would be amazing
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I would trade cinema/3D bullshit for an extra hour in a hot second.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'd imagine it'll be a special engagement thing at a couple chain theaters. Maybe. But not a wide release.
This seems like an amazing waste of money on the BBC's part.
There's reason to hope, I guess. A lot of those special engagement things make it to my town.
User 100115
Banned
PhoncipleBone
Banned
3d done right is glorious. Post converted is a waste of time.
I despise 3d
However, I approve of the use of a gif of the Attractive Crying Man.
Gaming Truth
Member
As cool as it is, it's well established that the Doctor can't be in his own timeline except for extenuating circumstances. The specials muddled through that, but the Oswin encounters don't fit that.
That being said, I threw the idea out there because:
1. The new Doctor would have been cast without anyone noticing
2. The Doctor's regeneration can be filmed with as little leakage as possible (see others' posts about this)
3. It would explain why Matt Smith was so instrumental in the choosing of this new "companion" if he was only going to be with her for only 5 episodes.
4. It'd be so cool, but only for coolness sake. I really have no idea how'd they pull it off
I was just explaining the same thing to my friend the other day. I have no idea what logical hoops they'd have to jump through to make it happen, but it's one of the "wrinkles" they haven't touched on yet and could still work if the writing is there to support it.
Oswin clearly has either died multiple times or exists in a way that time is not a limiter for her existence. She'd pretty much have to be unaware that she's a regeneration at this point, as well.
However, we do know that Timelords can potentially regenerate as the opposite gender and since hints have been dropped with Smith's character, it doesn't seem too far-fetched that something like that is in the works.
On top of that, Oswin seems to be nearly or just as clever as the Doctor himself. Now the other companions have all primarily been strong, intelligent women, but they existed as compliments to the Doctor in other aspects of his being or served to remind him what he was missing in that big, chaotic brain of his. Oswin *feels* like a version of the Doctor to me, and not just another "Doctor Donna."
I guess we'll see what happens, but I think it's about time we saw a female doctor.
Oswin clearly has either died multiple times or exists in a way that time is not a limiter for her existence. She'd pretty much have to be unaware that she's a regeneration at this point, as well.
However, we do know that Timelords can potentially regenerate as the opposite gender and since hints have been dropped with Smith's character, it doesn't seem too far-fetched that something like that is in the works.
On top of that, Oswin seems to be nearly or just as clever as the Doctor himself. Now the other companions have all primarily been strong, intelligent women, but they existed as compliments to the Doctor in other aspects of his being or served to remind him what he was missing in that big, chaotic brain of his. Oswin *feels* like a version of the Doctor to me, and not just another "Doctor Donna."
I guess we'll see what happens, but I think it's about time we saw a female doctor.
Exterminieren
Banned
Those Destiny of the Doctor audios are developing nicely. It's very weird to hear new series references in Classic Who audios, though.
The Eleventh Doctor sent a message to the Second Doctor on the psychic paper in the most recent one.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I don't want a female Doctor, and here's why: I love the Doctor for being one of the few iconic male heroes who acts purely off of his wits. No guns, no swords, no magic, usually no womanising, and certainly no gratuitous violence. I think it's good to have that super morally sound character for young boys growing up, it's an important antidote to the likes of Batman or James Bond who, at the end of the day, are going to win the day by punching someone. Plus it adds variety. And let's be honest, I think as time goes by, we're going to get a lot less of those kind of male characters... and the heroines of popular culture are more likely to follow the lead of the Doctor than that of Bruce Wayne, really.
The role is indeed easily adaptable to suit a female lead, but I'm really against that happening. It's unnecessary and I think lessens the importance of the character (that sounds horrible but I think it shouldn't be in the context of what I just said).
You can't even say you're doing it to get more female interest, considering Who probably has the most even gender split of any sci-fi going, if I had to wager.
The role is indeed easily adaptable to suit a female lead, but I'm really against that happening. It's unnecessary and I think lessens the importance of the character (that sounds horrible but I think it shouldn't be in the context of what I just said).
You can't even say you're doing it to get more female interest, considering Who probably has the most even gender split of any sci-fi going, if I had to wager.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Agreed. I just see the character as male; regeneration is one thing, but the Doctor is specifically a gendered character, and I think a change to female would just come off as a desperate attempt to seem overly inclusive.
Hot Coldman
Banned
The series is already inclusive. Incredibly so. Hell, all the plots revolve around the female companions now. Anyone who would be irrationally livid at a female Doctor probably stopped watching ages ago, when Amy Pond was the centre of the universe and then River was and now Oswin is about to be.
I have no issue with a female Doctor, but I don't know where irrational or livid could be applied to the argument against it presented so far.
I know a few Doctor Who fans who are also aspiring actresses, and ideally if they'd get their dream gig, it wouldn't be as a companion or as a female Time Lord, but as The Doctor.
If any show wouldn't make the Doctor being suddenly female out to be a big deal, it'd be Doctor Who. The show would be exactly the same, except there'd be more focus on the a male companion.
As for role models for boys, that's valid, but I also think the Doctor wouldn't stay female every regeneration, it'd just open up the possibility. It'd make a statement about the fluidity of gender without making any statement at all and let every boy and girl dream about growing up to be The Doctor.
I don't really care about the fans that would be so turned off by the idea they'd stop watching, because they'd make the same arguments that are made against Smith - where there's a lot of valid criticism to be made, but a lot of it is just an excuse to be annoyed that he's not David Tennant.
This certainly isn't a case of Starbuck being recast a female though, because she rocked the part and the world doesn't exactly lack for Han Solo pastiches.
As for male intellectual based heroes for boys - there's always Sherlock Holmes, and Captain Picard, Spock and Data were right there alongside The Doctor fulfilling that role when I was young. Should there be more of them around these days? Certainly, but it's not exactly as if little girls have ever been inundated with them - and Doctor Who is pretty unique amongst geek touchstones in modern times in that is truly gender neutral in terms of its fanbase.
The only thing that comes close is Buffy.
I know a few Doctor Who fans who are also aspiring actresses, and ideally if they'd get their dream gig, it wouldn't be as a companion or as a female Time Lord, but as The Doctor.
If any show wouldn't make the Doctor being suddenly female out to be a big deal, it'd be Doctor Who. The show would be exactly the same, except there'd be more focus on the a male companion.
As for role models for boys, that's valid, but I also think the Doctor wouldn't stay female every regeneration, it'd just open up the possibility. It'd make a statement about the fluidity of gender without making any statement at all and let every boy and girl dream about growing up to be The Doctor.
I don't really care about the fans that would be so turned off by the idea they'd stop watching, because they'd make the same arguments that are made against Smith - where there's a lot of valid criticism to be made, but a lot of it is just an excuse to be annoyed that he's not David Tennant.
This certainly isn't a case of Starbuck being recast a female though, because she rocked the part and the world doesn't exactly lack for Han Solo pastiches.
As for male intellectual based heroes for boys - there's always Sherlock Holmes, and Captain Picard, Spock and Data were right there alongside The Doctor fulfilling that role when I was young. Should there be more of them around these days? Certainly, but it's not exactly as if little girls have ever been inundated with them - and Doctor Who is pretty unique amongst geek touchstones in modern times in that is truly gender neutral in terms of its fanbase.
The only thing that comes close is Buffy.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I would love a female Doctor.
I really don't want her to be written by Moffat.
I really don't want her to be written by Moffat.
Exterminieren
Banned
Wow, that's a severe and unfair representation of Green Scar's post.
Actually, MasterBall's too.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Irrational? Livid? Definitely not. Confused, perhaps. It's been established in canon that Time Lords can change gender between regenerations, so it's nothing to get fan rage over. But to me, the Doctor is a male character. It's sort of like having Julie Bond...
If it were to be done the right way? Absolutely. Under Moffatt I predict we'd have a femme fatale who made a constant stream of sexual innuendos/puns and wore incredibly revealing yet eccentric outfits though.
Case in point;
If it were to be done the right way? Absolutely. Under Moffatt I predict we'd have a femme fatale who made a constant stream of sexual innuendos/puns and wore incredibly revealing yet eccentric outfits though.
Case in point;
You forgot: "who is incredibly vulnerable and madly in love with the (male) protagonist under her devil-may-care, tough facade". I'm pretty sure Moffat would never go for a female Doctor anyway, for this very reason.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Haha, wasn't the 30th anniversary "special" 3D too?
As a 3D nut, though, this pleases me.
That seems about as necessarily true as Moffat having a male Doctor and making him Jack.MasterBalls said:
peanutbutterlatte
Member
slightconfuse
Banned
it wouldnt bother me eater way, just glad we are moving on from the river song saga
GameplayWhore
Member
I despise 3d
You know that you have the option of watching it with 2D glasses, right? This is actually one of the situations where the term "reverse the polarity" sort of works.
I stopped reading at that last word.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I'm not livid at all. I also demonstrated at least some rational behind my thinking. You're welcome to poke holes in my argument if you see any! But I think I ran through my feelings on the matter in a fair manner, and agree or disagree I think it's rather unfair of you to sweep it under the rug via way of deliberate misinterpretation. It's a difficult thing to discuss without sounding like some male chauvinist and that kind of response doesn't make things easier.
RE: Axiom's post (nice read, by the way)- I felt like I should have clarified that yes, we'll always have Sherlock and the Star Trek heroes and the like, I just feel those character types are disappearing as of late. I see your point about them being scarce regardless of gender, though. And the point about gender fluidity is an excellent one- I suppose in today's society, that kind of thing could be incredibly encouraging and send out the right kind of positivity about such matters.
For the record: I'd absolutely keep watching were the Doctor to regenerate into a woman. I'd be incredibly uneasy about it, yes, for the aforementioned reasons. I also wouldn't personally choose to make that move, again for those reasons. But in the event of such a thing actually happening, I'd likely be incredibly fascinated with the event also. Fascination isn't exactly something that needs outlining in detail, though, does it?
Irrationally livid? That's pretty damn unfair to two well thought out posts. I watch Doctor Who at times with my kid cousin and he adores the Doctor and as a result likes to "help" people like he does. Not sure he would learn that from WWE which was the last thing he was into, and don't think he would relate as much if the Doctor were female. Furthermore as mentioned previously, there are very strong female characters in the show...however one can argue you can have the inverse (fem lead male support). Just saying that not everything has to be inclusive.
I think Moffat would subtly hint that such a Doctor would be a slut like Jack - if it's breathing, look out. You know, Companion comes to see Doctor, the Doctor steps out of the TARIDS, quickly shutting the door, mentions company being over, but before the door shuts we a female/male/ood/etc stroll past.
User 100115
Banned
A female Doctor wouldn't bother me either way, I don't think. Other than the whole 'Wow, I am lusting after a chick' thing. Fangirl forever! >.<
infiniteloop
Member
Not sure on the exact date, I think late 2009, my wife and I embarked on a Who marathon from An Unearthly Child up to whatever the latest New Who episode would be at the time. I did a quick run through a couple of years previously.
Took us a while to get through the 60s, because there's a lot of episodes and we watched the recons for the missing episodes. We started the Tom Baker years in the autumn of last year and we've just finished the Key to Time season (Season 16, 78-79).
I want to get through them all (including new Who) before the anniversary. It's been interesting seeing how the show changes throughout the years... not looking forward to the 80s...
Took us a while to get through the 60s, because there's a lot of episodes and we watched the recons for the missing episodes. We started the Tom Baker years in the autumn of last year and we've just finished the Key to Time season (Season 16, 78-79).
I want to get through them all (including new Who) before the anniversary. It's been interesting seeing how the show changes throughout the years... not looking forward to the 80s...
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I was properly attempting to do this, then I realised the UK Netflix only has up to Patrick Troughton. But the US has more... what the fuck BBC? Show a little patriotism!
Isn't a lot of it available through the BBC?
Have you considered that this is a thing that's probably true of half the audience of Doctor Who as it stands?
At any rate, livid may have been glib, but I stand firmly by irrational. You have reasons, but they're rooted in emotional reactions and not rational ones. One of you doesn't want the Doctor to be female because, in spite of the show saying clearly that Time Lords can change gender in regeneration and accepting that, you believe that The Doctor's gender is essential to his nature. The other doesn't want him to be female because you don't want to lose some kind of exclusive hold on relating to the Doctor you currently feel you have. Neither of those are rational reasons for wanting him to not change.
And male protagonists will never ever go away. They are not a disappearing species in need of protection.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Well, sure, OK then. If you didn't mean irrational as a pejorative, then I can't exactly deny it wasn't rational. But I did begin this whole thing by saying "I don't want the Doctor to become female", so of course I was making a subjective statement. I probably should have said reasonable, not rational.
But now I've said I'm not trying to claim an objective viewpoint here, you can't throw in me with your much maligned "gender essentialists", can you? I don't believe it's an essential facet at all. If I did, I'd never have left room in my posts to state (multiple times, no less) that such a change could definitely be done. I'd have made points about the impact of being a male onto the Doctor's character. As it stands, I mostly spoke about his legacy and iconicism amongst viewers. The importance of that fact so far. Not essential- important. Important things can be proven to be less so over time, of course, but until the day they do, I'll recognise them for what they are.
Oh, and that last part of your post? Never said that at all. Never even implied it.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
You know who would make a good, ginger Doctor, and also get all the ladies watching?
Ewan McGregor.
Ewan McGregor.
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