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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life

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A

APZonerunner

Member
Link said:
Isn't Matt signed through next year?
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What we know:
The anniversary special films in April. We know this as Moffat has said in DWM that he's struggling to finish the script in time, describing it as hell.

Immediately after filming wraps, Matt goes to the US to film the movie he's doing. When that's done, he will be returning to Who, around late June/July time - so this would suggest that he will be around for Christmas, as that's when Christmas is traditionally filmed.

The anniversary special appears to be only one 60 minute episode - advertising BBC Worldwide produced for licensees and buyers listed the anniversary special as 1x60m, alongside 8x45m for Series 8 part two and 11x25m 'Doctor Who Revisited' shows, which presumably will be confidential-style recaps of each era. If the anniversary is only 60 minutes, this reinforces that Matt will be filming Christmas in June, not part two of an anniversary special or whatever.

The Rumours:
Pretty reliable site Blogtor Who said they'd been told the special would be called 'The Eleven Doctors' and would feature at least some past Doctors, if not some clever way of featuring them all. They also said Matt would then regenerate at Christmas. Separately, another source who has previously been correct with information said he'd regenerate at New Year as part of a two-part Holiday special set, like with Tennant.

Christmas specials aren't listed on the above-mentioned 'what's for Who this year' listing, so what we don't know right now is length or episode number. That rumour listed above says two episodes. What sort of tallies with that is that in a recent interview this year, Doctor Who Magazine's editor said they had amazing coverage planned for the anniversary episodes once series 7b was over. Episodes - plural. May be a slip of the tongue, but he probably knows full-well what is in the pipeline.

This new Blackpool illuminations thing seems to be another big hint that this may be the case, with a twelfth Doctor & TARDIS image being unveiled in October, weeks before the anniversary special airs and right in the thick of what will be a PR blitz for it. Introducing a new Doctor in a trademark Moffat wibbly-wobbly moment would be very him, and a nice anniversary nod, I think, so is pretty likely. Entering his fifth year Moffat must be thinking hard now about the future and what his legacy will be, and I imagine introducing a new Doctor in an unconventional way may be too much to resist.
 
M

mclem

Member
APZonerunner said:
The Rumours:
Pretty reliable site Blogtor Who said they'd been told the special would be called 'The Eleven Doctors' and would feature at least some past Doctors, if not some clever way of featuring them all. They also said Matt would then regenerate at Christmas. Separately, another source who has previously been correct with information said he'd regenerate at New Year as part of a two-part Holiday special set, like with Tennant.
Click to expand...

If I were Moffat, and evil (those terms may be synonymous), I'd title the episode "The Eleven Doctors", do that in all the promotion, and then, just as the title fades into view in the episode itself, morph "Eleven" into "Twelve".

Then sit back as Gallifrey Base explodes.
 
P

PhoncipleBone

Banned
mclem said:
If I were Moffat, and evil (those terms may be synonymous), I'd title the episode "The Eleven Doctors", do that in all the promotion, and then, just as the title fades into view in the episode itself, morph "Eleven" into "Twelve".

Then sit back as Gallifrey Base explodes.
Click to expand...

I still think it would be cool, but impossible, for them to cast Twelve and keep it absolutely secret until it airs. Then just BAM! Here is Twelve. No warning. No build up. Just drop it on us.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Asking for him back full-time in more than a brief special cameo is a whole new level of stupid, but people are entitled to prefer him and his Doctor if that's how they feel. There's plenty of people who still prefer T. Baker, or Eccleston, or Davison - and they all "had their time" as well. That's normal, isn't it? Sean Connery "had his time" as Bond, but I still prefer him to Daniel Craig, even if now is "his" time.

I suppose this is down to the Tennant-to-Smith wound being more raw because both have been first Doctors for an incredibly large audience. Also in the UK at least Tennant was and still is the most popular Doctor since Tom Baker, and people in the fandom are glaringly aware and far too concerned of that. Smith's fell short of people's choice awards Tennant won and so on, even though he is amazing and just as good as Tennant, if not better. To be honest, I think Tennant's time winning more awards, being more under press scrutiny and having higher consolidated UK ratings is more to do with the way the show was ran then him. Moffat's era is differently run, and a little less 'event tv' as a result, that's all. The fact that at that time elements of Doctor Who were getting as many column inches in The Sun as The X Factor was an anomaly.

That particular fact makes for a bit of a case against bringing Tennant back for the anniversary, while I'd like to see it. You can learn from history a bit - when they did "The Five Doctors" it originally had Tom Baker's Doctor in it - and like with Smith/Tennnant, it was only a few years removed from when Baker had regenerated. Davison was well settled and had a fanbase and identity all of his own, but the shadow Baker's era and popularity cast was massive. It was still at the forefront of people's minds, including the writer. The climactic moments of the story and the resolution of the plot in the original script all went to Baker's Doctor, not Davison's - even though this was Davison's era!

Thankfully, Baker refused to take part. He was at the time trying to escape the shadow of the role himself. Those major moments in the script were switched over to Davison, the current Doctor - the way it should've been from the start. Baker does appear in the story, but using unused clips from an abandoned story from his era, written round quite cleverly. I'm sure Moffat is smarter than that, but even so the case of what The Five Doctors almost was shows how slippery that slope can be.

TLDR: Smith basically is Davison to Tennant's Baker, and those four are actually four of the best, period. Like Davison, I think Smith's Doctor actually has more substance than Baker/Tennant, but there's more to it than that, of course.
 
W

wetflame

Pizza Dog
PhoncipleBone said:
I still think it would be cool, but impossible, for them to cast Twelve and keep it absolutely secret until it airs. Then just BAM! Here is Twelve. No warning. No build up. Just drop it on us.
Click to expand...

I agree. Would be cool, but will never happen. The show is too big of a thing for them to drop something like that, unfortunately we'll probably know months in advance who it'll be. Then we can have everyone throwing their arms up for a while saying that he won't be as good as the last one, then realising that he's better when we actually see them in the role.

But can you imagine if they did do that? Oh man. I would love to see it just for the reaction alone. Would be incredible.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
APZonerunner said:
Asking for him back full-time in more than a brief special cameo is a whole new level of stupid, but people are entitled to prefer him and his Doctor if that's how they feel. There's plenty of people who still prefer T. Baker, or Eccleston, or Davison - and they all "had their time" as well. That's normal, isn't it? Sean Connery "had his time" as Bond, but I still prefer him to Daniel Craig, even if now is "his" time.

I suppose this is down to the Tennant-to-Smith wound being more raw because both have been first Doctors for an incredibly large audience. Also in the UK at least Tennant was and still is the most popular Doctor since Tom Baker, and people in the fandom are glaringly aware and far too concerned of that. Smith's fell short of people's choice awards Tennant won and so on, even though he is amazing and just as good as Tennant, if not better. To be honest, I think Tennant's time winning more awards, being more under press scrutiny and having higher consolidated UK ratings is more to do with the way the show was ran then him. Moffat's era is differently run, and a little less 'event tv' as a result, that's all. The fact that at that time elements of Doctor Who were getting as many column inches in The Sun as The X Factor was an anomaly.

That particular fact makes for a bit of a case against bringing Tennant back for the anniversary, while I'd like to see it. You can learn from history a bit - when they did "The Five Doctors" it originally had Tom Baker's Doctor in it - and like with Smith/Tennnant, it was only a few years removed from when Baker had regenerated. Davison was well settled and had a fanbase and identity all of his own, but the shadow Baker's era and popularity cast was massive. It was still at the forefront of people's minds, including the writer. The climactic moments of the story and the resolution of the plot in the original script all went to Baker's Doctor, not Davison's - even though this was Davison's era!

Thankfully, Baker refused to take part. He was at the time trying to escape the shadow of the role himself. Those major moments in the script were switched over to Davison, the current Doctor - the way it should've been from the start. Baker does appear in the story, but using unused clips from an abandoned story from his era, written round quite cleverly. I'm sure Moffat is smarter than that, but even so the case of what The Five Doctors almost was shows how slippery that slope can be.

TLDR: Smith basically is Davison to Tennant's Baker, and those four are actually four of the best, period. Like Davison, I think Smith's Doctor actually has more substance than Baker/Tennant, but there's more to it than that, of course.
Click to expand...


Agreed. I also think that, on the surface, Eleven and Ten aren't hugely different. They're both the same side of the goofy/wacky spectrum, with Tennant being a little bit more poe-faced (though Smith has his moments). It's miles away from the contrast between Eccleston and Smith, which makes it a shame that Eccleston seems so set on coming back. I don't think he's made any recent comments, but he's most likely very busy with Thor 2.

Paul McGann seems very eager to come back, and why not. He never really got a chance, and he's not been relegated to Peter Cushing levels of non-canon. Sylvester McCoy I think, could also return. He was fairly old when he took the role, and a bit of makeup and black hair dye could make him look roughly the same.

wetflame said:
I agree. Would be cool, but will never happen. The show is too big of a thing for them to drop something like that, unfortunately we'll probably know months in advance who it'll be. Then we can have everyone throwing their arms up for a while saying that he won't be as good as the last one, then realising that he's better when we actually see them in the role.

But can you imagine if they did do that? Oh man. I would love to see it just for the reaction alone. Would be incredible.
Click to expand...

The internet is a bit of a bummer for things like this. That said, I could count the amount of Moffatt rumors that turned out to be true on one hand. He's really unpredictable so it leaves open this weird thing where any rumor could potentially be true.
 
W

wetflame

Pizza Dog
MasterBalls said:
The internet is a bit of a bummer for things like this. That said, I could count the amount of Moffatt rumors that turned out to be true on one hand. He's really unpredictable so it leaves open this weird thing where any rumor could potentially be true.
Click to expand...

Would the BBC even allow something of this magnitude though? Especially with the impact it'd have on the "brand". I can see something like this going down particularly badly in America, for example. With an announcement in advance, while everyone's throwing a hissy fit they're still watching the show for the person they like now, and then by the time the regeneration comes around everyone's sort of resigned to it, and intrigued about how it'll all happen, and they give it a shot. I can see a large portion of relatively new fans switching off if the Doctor they like, their first Doctor, is suddenly replaced without warning.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
MasterBalls said:
Agreed. I also think that, on the surface, Eleven and Ten aren't hugely different. They're both the same side of the goofy/wacky spectrum, with Tennant being a little bit more poe-faced (though Smith has his moments). It's miles away from the contrast between Eccleston and Smith, which makes it a shame that Eccleston seems so set on coming back. I don't think he's made any recent comments, but he's most likely very busy with Thor 2.

Paul McGann seems very eager to come back, and why not. He never really got a chance, and he's not been relegated to Peter Cushing levels of non-canon. Sylvester McCoy I think, could also return. He was fairly old when he took the role, and a bit of makeup and black hair dye could make him look roughly the same.

The internet is a bit of a bummer for things like this. That said, I could count the amount of Moffatt rumors that turned out to be true on one hand. He's really unpredictable so it leaves open this weird thing where any rumor could potentially be true.
Click to expand...

As far as secrets and surprises go, they've managed some coups before. Donna at the end of Doomsday was a massive surprise, as was the Titanic. River's identity was frequently guessed but never actually leaked. Even Tennant was so, so close to being a surprise, scuppered by the press. Moffat's era has been less leak-prone than RTD's, so they could do it.

Eccleston seems to have mellowed about the whole thing now. There's a video on YouTube of him being asked about it early in 2012 about an anniversary return he grinned and said "if I told you I'd have to kill you," where in the past he'd just get irritated and sort of passive-aggressively say "I loved the role, but it's over for me now." I wouldn't write Eccleston off. Thor 2 wrapped in December, and even with pick ups and extras and so on he'll be free as a bird in April.

McCoy can easily pass it off. In the TV movie they deliberately played him as old anyway.

Just make McGann's new Big Finish costume canon to bridge him to Eccleston. He'll work great.

wetflame said:
Would the BBC even allow something of this magnitude though? Especially with the impact it'd have on the "brand". I can see something like this going down particularly badly in America, for example. With an announcement in advance, while everyone's throwing a hissy fit they're still watching the show for the person they like now, and then by the time the regeneration comes around everyone's sort of resigned to it, and intrigued about how it'll all happen, and they give it a shot. I can see a large portion of relatively new fans switching off if the Doctor they like, their first Doctor, is suddenly replaced without warning.
Click to expand...

I'm sure given the choice they'd have even kept Matt's casting secret, but the problem with what happened then was they were filming Series 5 before Tennant's final 3 adventures had broadcast, so they had to announce him, Amy, the costume, even the new Sonic Screwdriver and TARDIS exterior. Even the interior kinda-sorta leaked from what you could see through the TARDIS doors when they were filming coming out of it. Series 8 seems to be in some weird, messy position right now, with no filming confirmed at all for this year beyond the 50th and Christmas - so that may not be an issue here.
 
C

CorrisD

badchoiceboobies
wetflame said:
But can you imagine if they did do that? Oh man. I would love to see it just for the reaction alone. Would be incredible.
Click to expand...

I remember when 10 got shot by the Dalek and he started regenerating, we knew at the time he was sticking around because they had already started filming the Christmas episode, but people who didn't follow the DW news on the internet like my gf's mother went a gobsmacked and crazy over the regeneration and that we didn't know.

It would be cool to have a surprise regeneration, but I don't think it will ever happen, they announce the new doctor and/or new companion months in advance because these things would leak out regardless. Just like we will know who is coming back for the 50th soon enough for the same reason, unless they film it all indoors with only a few people and no one else is allowed in, then these things always come out or have to be announced beforehand.
 
G

gabbo

Member
Gaming Truth said:
I kinda hope he regenerates into Jenna-Louise Coleman.

A female doctor would be a game-changer and from the limited amount I've seen of her in Who, I can't see why she can't pull it off.

Shamalamayan
Click to expand...

Oh that would explode some heads everywhere if that was how they play this out. Doctor companions with his future self... Oh [time] lordy...
 
P

PhoncipleBone

Banned
They managed to keep Oswin a secret until it aired. I could see them keeping a new Doctor a secret. Film the regeneration scene with minimal crew. Less people to leak it.

And while the months of build up to a regeneration does get press, it would be nowhere near as much press if they did a surprise regeneration and then took a long break. Just have people reeling and speculating for months before it finally shows what happens after the regeneration.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
APZonerunner said:
Eccleston seems to have mellowed about the whole thing now. There's a video on YouTube of him being asked about it early in 2012 about an anniversary return he grinned and said "if I told you I'd have to kill you," where in the past he'd just get irritated and sort of passive-aggressively say "I loved the role, but it's over for me now." I wouldn't write Eccleston off. Thor 2 wrapped in December, and even with pick ups and extras and so on he'll be free as a bird in April.
Click to expand...

Now this I did not know. Very interesting. That remark is reassuring too, I imagine a fat paycheck from the BBC would help assuage his creative concerns.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
APZonerunner said:
If true, this means they've recast two of the three Doctors no longer with us... they could easily be used elsewhere, hm?
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Ever since that TV movie was announced I've been wondering if they'd try to get a twofer either on actors or recreated sets/props by also using them for proper fictional purposes.
Green Scar said:
I am willing to bet HARD FUCKING CASH the 12th Doctor makes his debut in the 50th Anniversary special, with Matt regenerating into 12 in the New Year.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't want to be that person. It's hard enough for a new actor to claim such a big role and really get into their own style. So to have their first appearance be in such a big event when there will likely be multiple people already established in the role around? Hard shoes to be in.
 
W

wetflame

Pizza Dog
PhoncipleBone said:
They managed to keep Oswin a secret until it aired. I could see them keeping a new Doctor a secret. Film the regeneration scene with minimal crew. Less people to leak it.

And while the months of build up to a regeneration does get press, it would be nowhere near as much press if they did a surprise regeneration and then took a long break. Just have people reeling and speculating for months before it finally shows what happens after the regeneration.
Click to expand...

Oswin wasn't a total secret though, Jenna was announced as being the new companion before she appeared in that episode. It's one thing to introduce an announced character early as a surprise, it's another to have a regeneration without anyone finding out they've cast a new Doctor until it airs.
 
P

PhoncipleBone

Banned
wetflame said:
Oswin wasn't a total secret though, Jenna was announced as being the new companion before she appeared in that episode. It's one thing to introduce an announced character early as a surprise, it's another to have a regeneration without anyone finding out they've cast a new Doctor until it airs.
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True, but the fact that she showed up early was a big surprise.
 
C

CorrisD

badchoiceboobies
PhoncipleBone said:
They managed to keep Oswin a secret until it aired. I could see them keeping a new Doctor a secret. Film the regeneration scene with minimal crew. Less people to leak it.

And while the months of build up to a regeneration does get press, it would be nowhere near as much press if they did a surprise regeneration and then took a long break. Just have people reeling and speculating for months before it finally shows what happens after the regeneration.
Click to expand...

Oswin was pretty different though, that was one woman in one room for the whole episode, and it is perfectly possible it was filmed completely separate from the rest of the episode as no one interacts with her besides talking which can be done without actually using her. From memory she wasn't announced till a couple months after they had started filming too.

And they plan and film episodes quite ahead of time, so the new Doctor would be filming episodes most likely long in advance of the regeneration, 11's episodes for instance were filming back in October before the New Years episode with 10 regenerating had happened, and Matt was announced nearly a year in advance of his regeneration too,
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
Avixph said:
But
what about the guy that Jack made immortal?
Click to expand...

doctorwhofacepalm.gif


I really hate what they've done with Torchwood.
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Avixph said:
They could just bring Jenny back.
Click to expand...

stop

it's never happening

ever

even 50 years from now when somebody who saw that episode as their first ever episode of Doctor Who is running the show, Jenny is never coming back EVER

the character has literally nothing going for her except that her actress was hot

get over it, people
 
A

Avixph

Member
Htown said:
stop

it's never happening

ever

even 50 years from now when somebody who saw that episode as their first ever episode of Doctor Who is running the show, Jenny is never coming back EVER

the character has literally nothing going for her except that her actress was hot

get over it, people
Click to expand...
Never!
 
U

User 100115

Banned
I think I would be able to die happy if there were a scene where River and Jack flirted like mad and Eleven was all uncomfortable and awkward.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
infiniteloop said:
Confirmation of something that's been known for a while Series 7 episode spoiler:
Ice Warriors are back
Click to expand...

Huzzah! This puts some wind into the potential spoiler of
a massive Dalek invasion of London
as the season finale. That was pictured as part of new toy sets, including
60s-era style Dalek flight platforms and Big Ben with Dalek guns attached to each side of it. What wasn't clear was if this was just an original toy or related to the series. The set was shown alongside an Angels in Manhattan set, the new design Cyberman and some Ice Warriors stuff - the fact they're in now makes the rest shown in those toys, like the Dalek invasion, more likely.

Also: Miracle Day may be the worst execution of a potentially dynamite concept ever.
 
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