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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life

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R

RetroMG

Member
I was also going to call out that Utopia would be great if it weren't for Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords.

Although I didn't want to do a list, I think it would go Pandorica Opens>Parting of the Ways>Doomsday>Journey's End=End of Time>Wedding of River Song>Last of the Time Lords
 
Q

Quick

Banned
I can't actually make a list out of Doctor Who episodes. I begin to debate with myself and it's all just a mess in the end.

Though I am definitely sure that series 3 had the worst finale.
 
R

RetroMG

Member
It was difficult. All I can definitely say is that I think 5 is the best and 3 is the worst. The rest kind of jumble around. And it got even more complicated when I decided to throw End of Time in.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
RetroGamer42 said:
I was also going to call out that Utopia would be great if it weren't for Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords.

Although I didn't want to do a list, I think it would go Pandorica Opens>Parting of the Ways>Doomsday>Journey's End=End of Time>Wedding of River Song>Last of the Time Lords
Click to expand...

I'd probably agree with this list actually, although I'm not sure if I'd rank Wedding or Last of the Time Lords lower.
Last of the Time Lords has an absolutely horrible resolution and a stupid time skip involving a dumbass plot about Martha roaming the earth gathering brightly colored vials to dispatch the Master while preaching to everyone about how incredible the Doctor is. Wedding, on the other hand, is barely coherent in places, absolutely neuters the excellent villains they'd been building up for the season, destroys the promising concept of the Doctor and River getting married, and is also an absolutely horrible resolution to what was set up.

Like, I'm not sure if the Doctor coming back to youth through the power of belief or the Doctor's death, the big dramatic hook for the entire season, being explained by "he was a robot", is worse
 
R

RetroMG

Member
Even though Wedding of River Song is a total mess, I still enjoy watching it. I can't say that about Last of the Time Lords.

Here's kind of a random question, because I was thinking about Martha threatening to destroy the Earth in Journey's End. Has the Doctor ever had a companion go full on evil? I know The Master had a puppet thing going on with Adric at one point, but have we ever had a companion go fully off the deep end?
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
RetroGamer42 said:
Even though Wedding of River Song is a total mess, I still enjoy watching it. I can't say that about Last of the Time Lords.

Here's kind of a random question, because I was thinking about Martha threatening to destroy the Earth in Journey's End. Has the Doctor ever had a companion go full on evil? I know The Master had a puppet thing going on with Adric at one point, but have we ever had a companion go fully off the deep end?
Click to expand...

Turlough was close, in that he started as a sleeper agent for the Black Guardian. He turned good though, so that doesn't exactly fit, though I think it's as close as they've come.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
I still argue that most of The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords is fucking great. It's just the conclusion that sours everything else, unfortunately. The weird smeagol Doctor isn't great either, but isn't a dealbreaker - only the ending is.

Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways is still the best finale by a country mile for me, mind. Big Bang/Pandorica is second.
 
M

mclem

Member
RetroGamer42 said:
Watching Pandorica Opens/Big Bang right now. This is seriously the best season finale in all of New Who.
Click to expand...

Moffat's really quite fond of "exciting cliffhanger" followed by "completely mindscrew opening to following episode", isn't he? 'twas the same with Silence in the Library.

The Technomancer said:
Last of the Time Lords has an absolutely horrible resolution and a stupid time skip involving a dumbass plot about Martha roaming the earth gathering brightly colored vials to dispatch the Master while preaching to everyone about how incredible the Doctor is.
Click to expand...

I maintain that this was a genuinely brilliant idea, let down by execution. If they'd established the archangel network's potential a bit more and quietly interleaved the Doctor-preaching amongst the gathering the weapon parts, it'd have a feeling that we'd been *seeing* the blocks put in place for the resolution without *realising* that that's what they are. Using the Archangel Network *against* the villain is an incredibly Doctor thing to do, although *how* that works out is... less than completely satisfactory in the end.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
According to a guy on Gallifrey Base who's got a history of good spoilers (but also some clangers, so don't take it as gospel), they nearly got Eccleston for the fiftieth anniversary, but he ended up not taking the bait.
He seems to reckon that David Bradley's first Doctor and Reece Shearsmith's second Doctor will play a role, though, as well as at least McGann and Tennant.
 
B

Box of Bunnies

Banned
Exterminieren said:
According to a guy on Gallifrey Base who's got a history of good spoilers (but also some clangers, so don't take it as gospel), they nearly got Eccleston for the fiftieth anniversary, but he ended up not taking the bait.
He seems to reckon that David Bradley's first Doctor and Reece Shearsmith's second Doctor will play a role, though, as well as at least McGann and Tennant.
Click to expand...

Not snagging Eccles would be disappointing but 1/2/8/10/11 makes a nice anniversary lineup. You get the first two Doctors of the classic series, the last two of the modern series and the linking Doctor. I know some people are against recasting Doctors whose actors are dead but I think it can be done respectfully so if they've got the right people and the right story I'm all for it
especially if it includes Claudia Grant as Susan
.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Sound of Drums/Last of the Timelords is a good finale and I'm not listening to any of you. Know why?

::beginssinging:: CUZ I CAN'T DECIDE WHETHER YOU SHOULD LIVE OR DIE. O, YOU'D PROBABLY GO TO HEAVEN. PLEASE DON'T HANG YOUR HEAD AND CRY!

That is easily one of my all-time favorite Who scenes....
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
Exterminieren said:
He seems to reckon that David Bradley's first Doctor and Reece Shearsmith's second Doctor will play a role
Click to expand...


ewww no

Also, nicked this from GB:

eccle.jpg
 
Q

Quick

Banned
Went through Cold Blood and Vincent and The Doctor.

Cold Blood was a bit of a letdown with what was established, but not really as bad as I remember it being initially.

Not really sure I liked the conclusion of putting the Silurians back to sleep for another thousand years, and making the family "spread the word" from that point on.

Vincent and The Doctor was amazing, and it makes me wonder why some people hated it (according to Wikipedia, at least).

Tony Curran was pretty much the perfect choice to play Vincent Van Gogh. He played a whole spectrum of emotions, especially when he was inconsolable after the Doctor told him they'd be "out of your hair by morning" after growing fond of them.

Then you have pretty much a tribute to him in the end, and Van Gogh telling them that he was a new man, and that the Doctor was the first person to make a difference to him, ultimately ending up killing himself still. Bittersweet.

The end with Amy looking at his sunflower painting with a dedication for her was a nice touch.

Next up: The Lodger and the 2-part finale.
 
G

grimshawish

Banned
Utopia is brilliant; amazing how RTD keeps your attention with like 40 minutes of utter tripe lol. Really well done.

Sounds of Drums? Weird as fuck; it doesn't feel very Who to me, I dunno - The Doctor could be doing more than he is imo.

The Last of the Time Lords? Mindless but I find the ending fun; hate how much Martha is in it though. Freema couldn't pull it off am afraid, but ultimately RTD gives her a terrible curse; she spends a year telling people 'The Doctor' as if shes never had any plan herself.

Would have been far more interesting if it were The Doctor keeping faith in his companion to find a way. Which could easily have been done.

I mean co'mon. That 5 second whisper and The Doctor tells us her the B-Plan. Just...ugh...
The end is exciting though, so yeah.
 
Q

Quick

Banned
Series 5? Done.

It has to be one of the most ambitious seasons I've seen of new Who. Establishing multi-season arcs ("Silence will fall"), establishing a new cast, establishing its own "rules" (pushing away RTD's own set of rules), and having a finale that fits a great season.

I'm going to attempt to cram series 6 and 7A before tomorrow evening, but I doubt I'll get that done.
 
Q

Quick

Banned
What's up with A Christmas Carol and the way it makes me chop onions and fill my current area with dust? God damn.

It remains my favourite Christmas special, and it has to be one of Moffat's best.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Utopia was good because it had the only good Master so far in new Who and you can imagine at the end that it was a lead in to two awesome episodes that were lost and instead we got the two crap episodes we did.

Parting of the Ways has the best scene in new who, and the goodbye at the end was "fantastic".

Series 2 finale was great at the time, but I think was totally ruined by bringing Rose back later.
 
P

PhoncipleBone

Banned
DrForester said:
Utopia was good because it had the only good Master so far in new Who and you can imagine at the end that it was a lead in to two awesome episodes that were lost and instead we got the two crap episodes we did.

Parting of the Ways has the best scene in new who, and the goodbye at the end was "fantastic".

Series 2 finale was great at the time, but I think was totally ruined by bringing Rose back later.
Click to expand...
The post of truth.

Jacobi would have been a crazy scary Master if he had stuck around.
And Nine's goodbye is still "fantastic."
 
S

Slime

Banned
I still cringe at most of RTD's run. Overly sentimental and had a general feeling of tackiness throughout. I still like enough parts of it to not completely loathe it (namely the performances and the well-written episodes that worked in spite of the horrible production), and I'm grateful the show ever came back at all, but man, am I glad it's over.

I do have a hard time watching most of those episodes, though.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
The Anniversary Special has David Tennant, Billie Piper and John Hurt in it at the least. Any other casting is a "closely guarded secret"

The new DWM leaked.

Exciting!

I hope it's proper 10th Doctor and Rose, and not Rose and the metacrisis Doctor.
 
N

Napoleonthechimp

Member
DrForester said:
Utopia was good because it had the only good Master so far in new Who and you can imagine at the end that it was a lead in to two awesome episodes that were lost and instead we got the two crap episodes we did.

Parting of the Ways has the best scene in new who, and the goodbye at the end was "fantastic".

Series 2 finale was great at the time, but I think was totally ruined by bringing Rose back later.
Click to expand...

Christopher Eccleston was such a good Doctor.
 
S

Savitar

Member
Disappointed Eccleston won't happen if that's true, always thought if he had a longer run he would have been the best new Doctor we had. I rate him just behind Tennant if nothing else.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Piper excites me as long as it's authentic, series 2 Rose.

It's been a long time since the show was preoccupied with Rose, and it would have been the best part of 6 years since the character properly appeared by November. I have no problem with a return for a bit.

The magazine emphasizes how secretive most of the cast is, so I really would not bet that this is the only Doctor we're getting.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
noooooooooooooooooooooooo why not Donna

I love RTD's run, incidentally. I understand why some might find it over sentimental and such, but the sentimentality is what Who is all about for me. My favourite bits of Moffat's work are the ones that are equally sentimental (the end of The Doctor Dances, the whole of The Girl in the Fireplace, all of the stuff with young Amy etc etc) over the stuff where he's doing his massive clever sci-fi plotting. It's a family show, after all -the over-wrought, often sledgehammer sentiment is meant to teach values to kids.

FillerB said:
Oh I would LOVE it if Tate was in but I don't see how it is possible without completely ruining the ending of Donna's story arc.
Click to expand...

Well, the events would happen (for them) before she gets her mind wiped, that's all.

EDIT: Also, all bets are off now, as Billie said in a Graham Norton Show interview she wasn't in it point blank. So Barrowman etc etc are back in the game potentially.
 
K

King of the Potato People

Member
I wonder how it would be done well, I wouldn't really believe that Rose and Ten would be the same from series 2 because they've aged a bit. Putting Paul Mcgann in could work because his timeline was all mysterious. We don't even know how long the 8th lived in the universe.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Exterminieren said:
Really? I read someone with the magazine saying it was 90.
Click to expand...

Blogtor, who previously said 90, are saying 60 now. Gutted if true.

People are speculating that the reason this is coming out now, today, is because they'll make a "Rose in Partners in Crime" style background cameo in tonight's episode. Would make sense, as this has basically leaked hours early, not days...
 
8

8bit

Knows the Score
Exterminieren said:
Really? I read someone with the magazine saying it was 90.
Click to expand...


blogtorwho said:
As filming on the Doctor Who 50th Anniversary Special begins, some details have emerged regarding the episode. The new issue of Doctor Who Magazine, out next week, have confirmed that David Tennant (The Tenth Doctor) and Billie Piper (Rose Tyler) have signed up to appear in the special. Also starring is screen legend, John Hurt (Alien).

UPDATE: The special will be sixty minutes long (though could end up being slightly longer) and receive a limited worldwide 3D cinema release.
Click to expand...

http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
I do find the announcement timing bizarre. Matt is loved by the British public, but not nearly as much as Tennant was in the role. It's very much a Baker/Davison sort of thing. Matt has a greater fanbase across the pond, but the BBC worries about Britain first, and announcing this now does feel like a brilliant way to undermine the proper introduction of Jenna and the start of what sounds to be Matt's last series - all the papers tomorrow will dedicate column inches to this over how good tonight's episode is.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Blogtor's not gospel. He's presenting that info as having come from the magazine (he already edited it once today from being 90 minutes), but we've also had reports that the magazine says that it's 90 minutes or that length isn't mentioned at all.

He doesn't have the magazine himself; he put up a story about Tennant and Piper, and edited Hurt in afterwards. We won't honestly know until more people have the magazine.
 
The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
How about no companions from recent years? In fact, how about not trying to shoe-horn in any cameos. I was relieved when Captain Jack announced that he wasn't going to be in the 50th. I was getting worried that it was turning into a cameo fest. I get that you would want a few faces from the past to show up but keep it to a minimum and focus on those characters that matter to the plot. I would prefer to see Susan over Piper because there is some genuine unfinished business there and the 50th seems like a good time to reflect back on the beginnings of the series. The impression I'm getting is that this is going to be 60 minutes that will be heavily focused on 2005 and up.

I honestly don't need any casting of old doctors or companions. Just tell a solid story that weaves in some smart connections to the Doctor's past. I fear this is going to turn into Stolen Earth/Journey's End with just about everyone showing up. I liked those episodes but the cameos made it a bit of a clusterfuck.

I'm a lot more excited for the docudrama than the 50th anniversary episode at this point. I just hope all the casting rumors for the 50th are just that - rumors.
 
Q

Quick

Banned
I like how The Eleventh Hour gave its respect to the previous Doctors, then introduced 11. Something akin to that would be cool if they wanted to pay homage to past characters, within the story's setting.

I'd also prefer to have just a great 11th Doctor story, with reference to his past selves and companions, without the cameos. I think I'm still recovering from RTD's cameo-fest from The End of Time and Journey's End.

But I know that it's not that simple. They want it to be a spectacle.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
DoctorWho said:
I'm a lot more excited for the docudrama than the 50th anniversary episode at this point. I just hope all the casting rumors for the 50th are just that - rumors.
Click to expand...
Well, the GB leaker hinted at "original cast members", so maybe?

The Doctor Who Twitter just tweeted a picture of Tennant.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
There's a scan out of DWM. Can't be linked here due to GAF rules, but, er - Tennant, Piper, confirmed. They also refer to the rest of the casting as a "closely guarded secret" which of course suggests there's more to hide.

EDIT: https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/317980963969839104
https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/317984223736782848

What's the chances of some sort of cameo tonight, then?

Press Release:
DOCTOR WHO ANNOUNCES ALL-STAR CAST FOR 50th ANNIVERSARY
David Tennant and Billie Piper to return for blockbuster celebrations with John Hurt also confirmed

The BBC has today revealed some of the all-star cast that will mark the 50th anniversary of Doctor Who. David Tennant and Billie Piper will join current Doctor and companion, Matt Smith and Jenna-Louise Coleman, while John Hurt (Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Alien, Harry Potter) will also co-star.

Last seen as the Doctor on January 1st 2010, this will be the first time Tennant has reprised his role as the Tenth Doctor. During his reign as the Time Lord, Tennant appeared in three series as well as several specials. He was first revealed as the Doctor in the 2005 series finale, ‘The Parting of the Ways’.

Meanwhile Billie Piper, who played companion Rose Tyler for two series following the reboot in 2005, will appear in the show for the first time since featuring in Tennant’s last episode, ‘The End of Time’ in 2010.

Also confirmed to join the cast is John Hurt who will also co-star in the 3D anniversary special that will form part of blockbuster celebrations, set to take over the BBC. Produced by BBC Cymru Wales for BBC One, the 50th anniversary will be written by Steven Moffat and Directed by Nick Hurran.

Filming for the 50th anniversary starts this week. Meanwhile a brand new series starts on BBC ONE today (30 March) at 6:15pm for a run of eight epic episodes, which officially introduces the Doctor’s newest companion, Clara Oswald, played by Jenna-Louise Coleman.
Click to expand...

Sounds like DWM issues going out a few days early is a cock up and the BBC are playing catch up.
 
The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
Well, that's that. Not happy about Piper. Curious to see how much screen time is actually devoted to Tennant. He could easily steal the show.
 
S

Savitar

Member
My bet is it'll be the meta crisis Doctor and Rose that pop up.

Kinda curious, did the events that keep happening in the "normal world" keep playing out there too like the whole Titanic thing. We saw how it would go if there was no doctor to stop it and other events.

But I doubt they'll go into all that.
 
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