Hmmm, I had been expecting Gatiss to probably take over when Moffat leaves, considering how good friends they are and all it seemed like the natural move, especially since who else was there? But could Minchin be the one now I wonder.
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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
- Start date
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Hmmm, I had been expecting Gatiss to probably take over when Moffat leaves, considering how good friends they are and all it seemed like the natural move, especially since who else was there? But could Minchin be the one now I wonder.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Isaacs for The Master.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
Goddamnit, I had such fun with Seasons 5,6 and 7... I wasn't ready for the amount of bad episodes in the first seasons...
Season 1 is made of shit. Apart from Dalek and Empty Child/Doctor Dances the entire season is an atrocity and the stuff of nightmares! The Slitheen have got to be the most retarded thing ever, wtf were they thinking?
And now that I'm nearing the end of Season 2 Im starting to worry... Girl In The Fireplace was awesome but most of the other eps were just watchable, not to mention that they chose to put the 2 worst episodes ever one next to each other... just finished Love & Monsters and Fear Her, and I have to say, I'm getting increasingly disappointed, 85% of what I've watched from Seasons 1/2 so far has either been terrible or completely mediocre.
Season 1
Rose - Terrible
The End of the World - Bad
The Unquiet Dead - OK
Aliens of London/World War Three - Terrible
Dalek - Good
The Long Game - Bad
Father's Day - OK
The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances - Great
Boom Town - Terrible
Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways - Bad/OK
Season 2
The Christmas Invasion - OK
New Earth - OK
Tooth and Claw - OK
School Reunion - OK
The Girl in the Fireplace - Great
Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel - Bad
The Idiot's Lantern - Terrible
The Impossible Planet/ The Satan Pit - Good
Love & Monsters - Terrible
Fear Her - Terrible
Is this what I can expect from Season 3 and 4 as well? 3 good episodes per season? How did the show regain popularity in the first place with so many bad episodes? Jesus, either the show got alot better in Seasons 3-4 or Moffat really is a genious for making the show work... even the (scarce) bad episodes of seasons 5-7 (like the pirate episode) are at least watchable without constantly having to cringe...
Season 1 is made of shit. Apart from Dalek and Empty Child/Doctor Dances the entire season is an atrocity and the stuff of nightmares! The Slitheen have got to be the most retarded thing ever, wtf were they thinking?
And now that I'm nearing the end of Season 2 Im starting to worry... Girl In The Fireplace was awesome but most of the other eps were just watchable, not to mention that they chose to put the 2 worst episodes ever one next to each other... just finished Love & Monsters and Fear Her, and I have to say, I'm getting increasingly disappointed, 85% of what I've watched from Seasons 1/2 so far has either been terrible or completely mediocre.
Season 1
Rose - Terrible
The End of the World - Bad
The Unquiet Dead - OK
Aliens of London/World War Three - Terrible
Dalek - Good
The Long Game - Bad
Father's Day - OK
The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances - Great
Boom Town - Terrible
Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways - Bad/OK
Season 2
The Christmas Invasion - OK
New Earth - OK
Tooth and Claw - OK
School Reunion - OK
The Girl in the Fireplace - Great
Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel - Bad
The Idiot's Lantern - Terrible
The Impossible Planet/ The Satan Pit - Good
Love & Monsters - Terrible
Fear Her - Terrible
Is this what I can expect from Season 3 and 4 as well? 3 good episodes per season? How did the show regain popularity in the first place with so many bad episodes? Jesus, either the show got alot better in Seasons 3-4 or Moffat really is a genious for making the show work... even the (scarce) bad episodes of seasons 5-7 (like the pirate episode) are at least watchable without constantly having to cringe...
APZonerunner
Member
3 is imo about the same as 2 - perhaps a little bit better. You've got some real clangers in 3 (the Dalek episodes, the finale) but also some of the best episodes in the entire show since 2005. Gridlock, Human Nature/The Family of Blood and Blink are all better than all of Series 6 & 7, for instance, excepting The Doctor's Wife. Utopia's lore/backstory/exposition dumping makes A Good Man Goes to War's similar attempt look like amateur hour, too.
4 remains my personal favourite series they've done, but I know I'm not exactly the common opinion there. There's some really divisive stuff in 4; there's a comedy-driven episode with Agatha Christie, and an overly self-indulgent finale... but it also has what I think is a really brave companion introduction, the best 'past event' episode they've ever done, a great reintroduction of an old villain and so on. 4 and 5 are both god tier. For what it's worth, Series 4 was the highest rated in the UK, and still is by a small margin. This series is coming close, mind.
That said, I don't think there's many cringeworthy episodes in old series' either. Of the ones you've listed, for instance, I'd say the cringers are The Long Game, Fear Her, Love & Monsters and Aliens of London/World War 3. The difference, I suppose, is 1-4 are more unabashed about being a family - and more than that, a kids show. Thus things like the Slitheen. Series 5 on ditches some of that - Moffat's choice - and marks the time when it started being marketed as a sci-fi show in America, a Star Trek style show as opposed to... trying to grasp for an equivalent. Here in the UK it's really still sold and marketed staunchly a kids/family show. The identity of the show is shifting, as it always does. Moffat's era certainly does better with the demographic of this thread, or of forums like GAF, because it's designed more for us. The show has less of a vice-like grip on the consciousness of the UK press and wider public than it did around Series 3/4 though.
As far as how it regained popularity...? I think people went in expecting different things to an all-new viewer now, really. I still love Series 1 and 2, but I know it's through rose-tinted glasses (hur hur pun not intended) more than anything now. Here's a review of 'Rose' from 2005, and another. Also, here's an opinion piece on why it's 'worse' than old Who from the same period. Twas really a different time. Ironically, there's been some stuff in the British press through this series (including a particularly scathing one last week) proclaiming that Moffat's era has become obsessed with style over substance, reminiscing about the good old days of 2005-2009 - the same stuff in that opinion piece about 05 versus 89! The more things change, the more they stay the same...
21st century cowboy
Member
I for one would love Whithouse to take over as Exec once Moffat leaves. I've loved Moffat's episodes but I think season 7.5 has been pretty damn poor on the whole and I think it's time for fresh blood and new ideas.I hope he comes back to write some episodes in the future though.
This is coming from a die hard being human fan though.
This is coming from a die hard being human fan though.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
Is it just me or would Crispin Glover make a perfect Doctor?
Minchin being involved just makes me want Stephen Mangan as the next Doctor.
As a big Douglas Adams fan Dirk Gently wasn't what I was looking for, but I loved it as its own thing. I thought Stephen's performance in particular was pretty great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZjb9I1dqak
As a big Douglas Adams fan Dirk Gently wasn't what I was looking for, but I loved it as its own thing. I thought Stephen's performance in particular was pretty great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZjb9I1dqak
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
I loved him in Shrek.
The Elite
BOSS
Matt Smith had a bit of his look in interviews when he was first announced.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
No thank you.
No thanks on Crispin. This is all I can think of when I read his name: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dYjdKbMT_c
GameplayWhore
Member
He would make a pretty unacceptable Doctor. The distinguishing characteristic of a Doctor is "looks generally different from all prior Doctors" and "acts generally different from all prior Doctors" (both save for a few common threads like the character looking like a Human but being smarter than most of them)*. Crispin Glover looks too much like Matt Smith.
Frankly, I would have put Judi Dench in line as the perfect Doctor, but she's way past her time now. :/
* Note that we've had gun toting Doctors, gun-shy Doctors, psychotic Doctors who tried to strangle their companions, Doctors so frail that they relied on their companions to get around, Doctors who manipulated their companions in a Machiavellian fashion, Doctors that ran around and pratfell a lot, Doctors that always ran from trouble, Doctors that always ran to trouble, Doctors hidden and/or banished from the top ranks of Time Lord law, Doctors as the top enforcers of Time Lord law, tall Doctors, short Doctors, fat Doctors, slim Doctors, old Doctors, young Doctors, blonde Doctors, brunette Doctors, one almost-redhead, wavy haired Doctors, curly haired Doctors, pretty much bald Doctors. Only thing we're waiting for is a left-handed Doctor (ye gods, even Link swapped hands at least once!), a non-white Doctor, and a sex change. I suspect that your post is essentially saying "this guy is perfect because he's more like the Doctors I've been most comfortable with", but this goes against a lot of what makes Doctor Who special.
edit: I like Glover. I even liked him -- a lot -- in that shitty Charlie's Angels movie, though I'm not big on his own personal indie film efforts.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Doctor Who Magazine hints at the storyline of the finale, and based on their mostly non-spoilery description, I'm more convinced now that the leak was true:
And wow at this-this has to be a misprint, right?
Every journey taken by a time-traveller tears a wound in the fabric of reality, and the Doctor has time-travelled more than anyone. But the trail runs cold in Trenzalore, the one place in all of time and space that he should never go. The most dangerous place in the universe… Who is kidnapping the Doctor’s friends, leading him to Trenzalore? Could the Fall of the Eleventh be nigh? Or does an impossible girl hold the key? The Doctor’s past, present, and future lives are in grave danger… and his greatest secret is about to be revealed.
THE DOCTOR: “The path I carved through time and space, from Gallifrey to Trenzalore. My own personal time tunnel, leading back to every moment I ever lived. Every step, every tear, every kiss. Even the days I haven’t lived yet. Which is why I shouldn’t be here. The paradoxes… very bad…”
Richard E Grant is back as Dr Simeon (“Hello again,” says the Doctor. “How’s the Intelligence – still Great?”
Moffat says there hasn’t been a “proper doom-fraught episode” in a while. If this episode is about anything, it’s about death. There is a funereal atmosphere, literally.
THE DOCTOR: “The path I carved through time and space, from Gallifrey to Trenzalore. My own personal time tunnel, leading back to every moment I ever lived. Every step, every tear, every kiss. Even the days I haven’t lived yet. Which is why I shouldn’t be here. The paradoxes… very bad…”
Richard E Grant is back as Dr Simeon (“Hello again,” says the Doctor. “How’s the Intelligence – still Great?”
Moffat says there hasn’t been a “proper doom-fraught episode” in a while. If this episode is about anything, it’s about death. There is a funereal atmosphere, literally.
And wow at this-this has to be a misprint, right?
Post-Library River Song returns
Hot Coldman
Banned
Does anyone think an American full-time companion would fly with the general public? I know Tegan was there before but I imagine there'd be more backlash against an American companion than an Aussie one.
Just something I've been thinking about.
Just something I've been thinking about.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
What's the leak?
infiniteloop
Member
Doctor Who Magazine hints at the storyline of the finale, and based on their mostly non-spoilery description, I'm more convinced now that the leak was true:
Every journey taken by a time-traveller tears a wound in the fabric of reality, and the Doctor has time-travelled more than anyone. But the trail runs cold in Trenzalore, the one place in all of time and space that he should never go. The most dangerous place in the universe… Who is kidnapping the Doctor’s friends, leading him to Trenzalore? Could the Fall of the Eleventh be nigh? Or does an impossible girl hold the key? The Doctor’s past, present, and future lives are in grave danger… and his greatest secret is about to be revealed.
THE DOCTOR: “The path I carved through time and space, from Gallifrey to Trenzalore. My own personal time tunnel, leading back to every moment I ever lived. Every step, every tear, every kiss. Even the days I haven’t lived yet. Which is why I shouldn’t be here. The paradoxes… very bad…”
Richard E Grant is back as Dr Simeon (“Hello again,” says the Doctor. “How’s the Intelligence – still Great?”
Moffat says there hasn’t been a “proper doom-fraught episode” in a while. If this episode is about anything, it’s about death. There is a funereal atmosphere, literally.
And wow at this-this has to be a misprint, right?
Post-Library River Song returns
You missed out a very big, huge spoiler:
River in the finale is post Library
bah, ninja edit!
EleventhDoctor
Banned
That seriously blows my mind.
Oh for fuck sake.
She can't even stay dead, can't she. The one thing I truly liked about Rivers whole storyline and then they do this.
WHUT!! Now, I really want to see this episode to see how everything unfolds.
Well:
Her physical body is gone. But her mind is still intact in the library. So not like she isn't still technically alive.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
There already was a full time American companion, and she was great.
Of course, it was a British actress putting on a fake American accent, but the public didn't seem to care.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
The only way I can see this happening is if the premise in the leaked storyline is true.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
infiniteloop
Member
I'm hyped for this finale, lots of crazy threads:
- Doctor's name
- Trenzalore
-
- Clara mystery
- Maybe a 50th lead in too?
- Doctor's name
- Trenzalore
-
River
- Maybe a 50th lead in too?
APZonerunner
Member
That spoiler
Please just put her to rest god please don't cop out on the death Moffat god damn it. It's Rose all over again.
It's got to be either a misprint or some serious wibbly-wobbly-handey-wavey.
Or something like realizing that fixing his timeline or whatever happens in the finale dooms her to her fate in the Library again.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Eh. I don't mind. Obviously not going to be permanent.
Oh, shit, Peri! Duh. But I guess that's neat at least, that no-one really minded.
Oh, shit, Peri! Duh. But I guess that's neat at least, that no-one really minded.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
If I had to guess.....
I bet this is River's final appearance in the show. Especially being "post-library", and the fact that we've seen all the major beats in her life, etc this is probably a goodbye to her.
The Elite
BOSS
peanutbutterlatte
Member
The fact she hasn't been confirmed for the 50th is pretty reassuring.
That has to be the most hand-wavey, copout-y, ego-stroking bullshit idea I have read until now. Moffat is sure to use it.
APZonerunner
Member
here's the full thing from DWM - well, a summary:
Synopsis:
Every journey taken by a time-traveller tears a wound in the fabric of reality, and the Doctor has time-travelled more than anyone. But the trail runs cold in Trenzalore, the one place in all of time and space that he should never go. The most dangerous place in the universe... Who is kidnapping the Doctor's friends, leading him to Trenzalore? Could the Fall of the Eleventh be nigh? Or does an impossible girl hold the key? The Doctor's past, present, and future lives are in grave danger... and his greatest secret is about to be revealed.
Quote:
THE DOCTOR: "The path I carved through time and space, from Gallifrey to Trenzalore. My own personal time tunnel, leading back to every moment I ever lived. Every step, every tear, every kiss. Even the days I haven't lived yet. Which is why I shouldn't be here. The paradoxes... very bad..."
Other stuff:
Richard E Grant is back as Dr Simeon ("Hello again," says the Doctor. "How's the Intelligence - still Great?")
Post-Library River Song returns ("Oh, I do like to watch a man think; it's like watching a whale knit!").
On the Doctor's feelings for River, Moffat says: "You never quite know what the Doctor feels. I don't think you ever should."
There's more snogging
Moffat says there hasn't been a "proper doom-fraught episode" in a while. If this episode is about anything, it's about death. There is a funereal atmosphere, literally.
Will everyone make it to the end of the episode alive? Spoiler: no
Will we, at last, learn the true identity of Clara Oswald, the impossible girl? Spoiler: yes!
Will the Doctor's greatest secret be revealed? Spoiler: possibly
DWM doesn't know how the episode ends, it's that secret
After this episode, nothing will ever be the same again
Every journey taken by a time-traveller tears a wound in the fabric of reality, and the Doctor has time-travelled more than anyone. But the trail runs cold in Trenzalore, the one place in all of time and space that he should never go. The most dangerous place in the universe... Who is kidnapping the Doctor's friends, leading him to Trenzalore? Could the Fall of the Eleventh be nigh? Or does an impossible girl hold the key? The Doctor's past, present, and future lives are in grave danger... and his greatest secret is about to be revealed.
Quote:
THE DOCTOR: "The path I carved through time and space, from Gallifrey to Trenzalore. My own personal time tunnel, leading back to every moment I ever lived. Every step, every tear, every kiss. Even the days I haven't lived yet. Which is why I shouldn't be here. The paradoxes... very bad..."
Other stuff:
Richard E Grant is back as Dr Simeon ("Hello again," says the Doctor. "How's the Intelligence - still Great?")
Post-Library River Song returns ("Oh, I do like to watch a man think; it's like watching a whale knit!").
On the Doctor's feelings for River, Moffat says: "You never quite know what the Doctor feels. I don't think you ever should."
There's more snogging
Moffat says there hasn't been a "proper doom-fraught episode" in a while. If this episode is about anything, it's about death. There is a funereal atmosphere, literally.
Will everyone make it to the end of the episode alive? Spoiler: no
Will we, at last, learn the true identity of Clara Oswald, the impossible girl? Spoiler: yes!
Will the Doctor's greatest secret be revealed? Spoiler: possibly
DWM doesn't know how the episode ends, it's that secret
After this episode, nothing will ever be the same again
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Moffat...don't do this shit man. I still have some kind of respect for you. Don't ruin even that man. Don't do it.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
My guess is
one of the pater-noster gang gonna dieeeee
The Elite
BOSS
But that was established in Forest of the Dead. There is no hand waving there. It's how she comes back that will be the trick.
Hot Coldman
Banned
She'll come back, the Whisper Men or whoever will find a way to stick her in a physical body so the Doctor isn't talking to her via radios and televisions the whole episodes and then she'll be back in the Library and/or dead for good (probably dead for good) by the end of the episode.
It's not a big deal.
APZonerunner
Member
There's a blogger who is calling himself 'Whistleblower' who posted spoilers for the finale that now seem pretty close to what DWM is printing. We'll see how 'right' he is in three weeks, but if his spoilers are right, here's some food for thought in what else he has posted:
1) Matt isn't going at Christmas
2) Moffat & Skinner were allegedly quite rude to
3) The BBC offered Moffat a non-Who position after the anniversary for fresh blood for S8 but he refused to take it - and they don't want to force a change in case it pisses him off enough to risk damaging/losing Sherlock
4) Series 8 won't be split, and 6/7 being so is considered a "failed experiment"
5) Moffat was shagging Skinner(!) which led to their communication breakdown and her getting kicked off the show.
Gallifrey Base and other places are forbidding any of this even being discussed, which is pretty funny. We'll see if his spoilers for the finale round out... if they do, hoooooo boy. He's probably just a mental person, though. Worth a mention, mind. He keeps really sporadically editing/changing his posts and things, sadly, so it's difficult to keep track of what's been said.
1) Matt isn't going at Christmas
2) Moffat & Skinner were allegedly quite rude to
Eccleston over his procrastinating, leading to him not doing the 50th
4) Series 8 won't be split, and 6/7 being so is considered a "failed experiment"
5) Moffat was shagging Skinner(!) which led to their communication breakdown and her getting kicked off the show.
Gallifrey Base and other places are forbidding any of this even being discussed, which is pretty funny. We'll see if his spoilers for the finale round out... if they do, hoooooo boy. He's probably just a mental person, though. Worth a mention, mind. He keeps really sporadically editing/changing his posts and things, sadly, so it's difficult to keep track of what's been said.
The Elite
BOSS
Skinner is the Whistleblower by the sound of things. Not sure what to believe. Series 8 not being split and Matt returning would be good news.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Hooray! Fuck the silly American illusion of a show being on all year round. Frustrated me to no end, and Series 7B has been so vastly different, tonally and thematically, many are considering it a new series anyway.
It's just a silly way to increase DVD sales. Very slimy.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I like 1 and 4, I don't like 2 at all, not sure how to feel about 3, and I definitely don't know what to think about 5.
Those rumors seem like something you would find in one of those terrible gossip magazines. Delicious to talk about but they seem to be too fattened up to actually be true. Especially the Moffat-Skinner thing.
feels so incredibly stupid.
Alright fine. Maybe bad choice of words on my part. But the whole idea of
bring River back by (apparently) downloading her Data Ghost back into a body
Bobby Roberts
Banned
2) really pisses me off. That's really fuckin frustrating.
APZonerunner
Member
As far as 5 goes, Moffat is a bit of a rogue in that sense. His previous marriage broke down because he was playing away. In Jekyll there's some amazing scenes where the Jekyll side of the character goes crawling bars for women, and on the DVD commentary Moffat describes how it was drawn from his own experiences. This is a man who described himself as "shagging my way round television studios like a mechanical digger," so it wouldn't blow my mind if it was true!
If this person pans out then it just sort of confirms what we vaguely already know; that it has been a very turbulent three years since 2010 for the show on the production side, even if the end result we've been getting has been fantastic. The suggestion this person is making is that the BBC wants to keep Moffat but wants to move him off Doctor Who - something you could understand after the production difficulties in recent years - but is scared to press the issue lest it upsets him and damages Sherlock or anything else he may go on to produce.
Moffat was always a better writer than RTD, but perhaps not as good a showrunner, I suppose. Very intrigued to see if any of this turns out to be correct.
EDIT: If he did get with Skinner he missed a trick missing Beth Willis, as she is far more attractive IMO, ho ho.
If this person pans out then it just sort of confirms what we vaguely already know; that it has been a very turbulent three years since 2010 for the show on the production side, even if the end result we've been getting has been fantastic. The suggestion this person is making is that the BBC wants to keep Moffat but wants to move him off Doctor Who - something you could understand after the production difficulties in recent years - but is scared to press the issue lest it upsets him and damages Sherlock or anything else he may go on to produce.
Moffat was always a better writer than RTD, but perhaps not as good a showrunner, I suppose. Very intrigued to see if any of this turns out to be correct.
EDIT: If he did get with Skinner he missed a trick missing Beth Willis, as she is far more attractive IMO, ho ho.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Man, these rumors are trying their damnedest to make me move from "dislike quite a bit of his work" to "fuck you man"
EDIT: talking about the big one and #2 here
EDIT: talking about the big one and #2 here
APZonerunner
Member
There's a specific 50th Spoilers/Speculation/Discussion thread over here, but
that meeting appears to have nothing to do with Who, as it was in Soho, not Cardiff, the London filming wrapped ages ago, and both Smith & Tennant were in Cardiff that day.
infiniteloop
Member
He also says that Finale/50th spoiler
Hurt is playing a 'lost' regeneration, but will actually be revealed to be Omega, people have been speculating about Omega returning for years, so nothing new
What makes he think he's making it up, is that theres nothing really new here (in terms of plot spoilers) and he was asked to reveal something about Crimson Horror/Nightmare in Silver, but he wouldn't because he respects the writers.
Ah, that's who I was thinking of when I read this then I saw pictures of Skinner and wondered if I was confused. I dunno, the rumours seem a bit odd and I hadn't really considered Moffat as crazy and power hungry as this depicts so would come down on the side of mental.
- Status