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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life

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B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
I got in on this late, but here goes:

Series 5
Series 4
Series 3
Series 6
Series 7
Series 1
Series 2

It's weird that I'd put the series with my personal least favorite companion in the top 3, but it's hard to argue against the overall quality of episode for that run.

My wife was rewatching 1-4 a couple months ago, and Series 1 played a little better than I remembered it, and Series 2 played a LOT worse.
 
P

Petrichor

Member
APZonerunner said:
Skaro is a political minefield.

The Seventh Doctor supposedly destroys it during Remembrance of the Daleks, but then in the introduction to the 8th Doctor TV Movie it talks about The Master being handed to the Daleks as part of some sort of peace treaty (which could, one supposes, easily be retconned to be a part of the war that nobody at the time realizes is such - wibbly wobbly - as Genesis was.

New Who decides to continue from the last mention of Skaro, the TV movie, ignoring Remembrance - but does talk about Skaro getting devastated in the war. They never say destroyed, though, unlike Gallifrey - just devastated.

So that'd tally with it being a wreck in Asylum, really. Still doesn't clean up the Remembrance thing, though. It's a shame that modern continuity poo-poos that story a bit, as it's one of McCoy's better stories.



I think Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone are bloody magnificent, but what you just said is really the greatest proof of all that the Angels aren't effective in the traditional Who villain role, and thus can't carry a two-parter as well. Some of Angel Bob's dialogue is downright amazing, and that guy's voice performance is brilliant, but they were still much better in Manhattan, silent once again.
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If moffat is insistent on bringing the angels back again going forward they have to make a radical change to the way they are visualised on-screen. The problem with the angels now is that we're too used to them - they cease to become "scary statues that could be all around you" in the mind of the viewer and are instead seen as "that weeping angel statue they have snarling / that weeping angel statue they have covering its eyes / that weeping angel statue they have smiling", stifling their effectiveness somewhat. If they absolutely must come back I'd like to see them in a surfeit of different guises - like the green mother and son statues in the angels take manhattan. Maybe on an alien planet where they look completely different but blend in with the aesthetics and culture of that planet.

Basically, change it up!

More of this:

normal_DW_7x05_The_Angels_Take_Manhattan_480.jpg



Less of this:

p00nzsgd.jpg



APZonerunner said:
Skaro is a political minefield.

I think Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone are bloody magnificent, but what you just said is really the greatest proof of all that the Angels aren't effective in the traditional Who villain role, and thus can't carry a two-parter as well. Some of Angel Bob's dialogue is downright amazing, and that guy's voice performance is brilliant, but they were still much better in Manhattan, silent once again.
Click to expand...


In a way they aren't really the primary villain of the piece in "flesh and stone" though - the crack is the cynosure for the bulk of that episode and the angels and the doctor's group alike are trying to escape it. I think I may be along in actually preferring ToA/FaS to the angels take manhattan - both as a story and in terms of how the angels are presented.

(God there are so many amazing sequences in that episode, amy "counting", each cleric sequentially being expunged from reality, the scene where the lights go off and they have to keep the angels at bay with gunfire, not to mention the two doctors in the forest!)
 
E

equippedwithtowel

Member
Why I prefer the The Angels Take Manhattan because of the role the Angels fulfill, they pose an almost existential threat to the doctor.

There's no negotiations or showy tricks like he can pull on the Daleks, someone is going to die and the angels cannot be stopped until all of them are locked permanently.
Everyone important is clearly making it out of Flesh and Stone.

Plus them having a distinct home of sorts took away from their menace. The less we actually know the better.
 
E

EleventhDoctor

Banned
Dr Zhivago said:
The worst thing about 'Time of Angels' was the stupid 'pretend you can see them' bit. And the handwavy ness of 'erased from history'.
Click to expand...

As much as I like the episode-yeah that part doesn't work. I mean-The Doctor is saying that over the radio-and the Angels could hear him!!!

Still not as bad as the Angel of Liberty.
 
T

thefil

Member
EleventhDoctor said:
As much as I like the episode-yeah that part doesn't work. I mean-The Doctor is saying that over the radio-and the Angels could hear him!!!

Still not as bad as the Angel of Liberty.
Click to expand...

Listening to you guys debate, I realize I am so easy to please. I've enjoyed pretty much every episode of the Smith run except Black Spot, and enjoyed the RTD era to only a slightly lesser extent (I think it was just worse at disguising when it was being cheesy).

I quote the above because I thought the Angel of Liberty was a clever surprise.
 
U

User 100115

Banned
Symphonic said:
I think I hate you perfectly.

But in a nice way
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I will gain your devotion somehow! I swear it.

hateradio said:
My favorite is Donna, too.

However, like your initial reaction to her, I disliked River. She became tolerable as the season progressed, but then her story peaked and became bad again. Maybe it's because her "childhood" was rushed and didn't seem to go anywhere. Her lowest point is when she kills the Doctor, but doesn't really kill him, all according to keikaku. In that case, the situation ruined her character for me.
Click to expand...

I am quick to forgive some of the slights in her storyline due to it having to be rushed; the actress isn't getting any younger, they would have no idea if she'd be available for episodes in the future, etc. So that I forgive. Maybe I am too forgiving? I dunno. I still like her a lot.
 
E

EleventhDoctor

Banned
thefil said:
Listening to you guys debate, I realize I am so easy to please. I've enjoyed pretty much every episode of the Smith run except Black Spot, and enjoyed the RTD era to only a slightly lesser extent (I think it was just worse at disguising when it was being cheesy).

I quote the above because I thought the Angel of Liberty was a clever surprise.
Click to expand...

You know-I have to say-I am for the most part -like you. I enjoy the show greatly-and yes I did think it was a clever visual gag. It's only when I try to "dissect" the show when I come in this thread that the real picking apart starts to happen.
 
U

User 100115

Banned
EleventhDoctor said:
You know-I have to say-I am for the most part -like you. I enjoy the show greatly-and yes I did think it was a clever visual gag. It's only when I try to "dissect" the show when I come in this thread that the real picking apart starts to happen.
Click to expand...

I am pretty much the same. I thought the Statue of Liberty thing was total fanservice, as that's been a meme among fandom for a long time now.
 
P

Petrichor

Member
Fiction said:
I am pretty much the same. I thought the Statue of Liberty thing was total fanservice, as that's been a meme among fandom for a long time now.
Click to expand...

I maintain that the TATM should have been a two-parter, they could have got a whole episode of material out of the the logistics and ramifications of the statue of liberty being a weeping angel, and that could have been part 1, with the weeping angel battery farm story comprising part 2 (WITH AN ENDING THAT MADE SENSE PREFERABLY)
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Petrichor said:
I maintain that the TATM should have been a two-parter, they could have got a whole episode of material out of the the logistics and ramifications of the statue of liberty being a weeping angel, and that could have been part 1, with the weeping angel battery farm story comprising part 2 (WITH AN ENDING THAT MADE SENSE PREFERABLY)
Click to expand...

I think part of the problem there is though that to justify the full additional 45 minutes they'd have to delve into the Angels' motivations again, and you'd end up with the weaker stuff from ToA/FaS again. That episode needed another 15 minutes, not another hour.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
I wonder what the Smith and Tennant video that they said they'll release after the ep is about.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
It's kind of funny that the reward for people not spoiling it is, in a small way, probably going to spoil a lot of people in and of itself as to some content of the 50th.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
equippedwithtowel said:
Plus them having a distinct home of sorts took away from their menace. The less we actually know the better.
Click to expand...

It's been a while since I watched the eps, but I don't think that was the home of the angels, just one planet they'd colonised. The Doctor twigs when he realises that all the statues only have one head, which implies that the Angels weren't always there. Unless I've misunderstood you, but yeah I agree, generally the more mystery about details like that the better. It's why I think any attempt to translate the Time War onto screen would end up underwhelming.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Owner of Blogtor Who, who has some good know-how usually, is downplaying Matt's series 8 comments and suggesting vaguely that it might be misdirection or at least not all it seems (series split with a halfway point regeneration?)
 
D

Diablos54

Member
Yea, it's quite amazing it didn't leak.

Less than 2 hours left to go! So glad I haven't been spoiled yet asides from
10 popping up at the end.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
I don't think it's THAT amazing that it didn't leak. If the BBC was calling EVERY PERSON who got a copy to ask them specifically "Please don't upload this," it makes sense. Not because the BBC is nice, but because that means they've touched base with every single person who could possibly be suspected of violating their copyright.

All the suspects are, essentially, in a lighted room, with the cops staring straight at them.

Of course nobody uploaded anything.
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
FatboyRoberts said:
I don't think it's THAT amazing that it didn't leak. If the BBC was calling EVERY PERSON who got a copy to ask them specifically "Please don't upload this," it makes sense. Not because the BBC is nice, but because that means they've touched base with every single person who could possibly be suspected of violating their copyright.

All the suspects are, essentially, in a lighted room, with the cops staring straight at them.

Of course nobody uploaded anything.
Click to expand...

"Dear Doctor Who enthusiast. We will send your choice of Jenna-Louise Coleman or Arthur Darvill to your home for three hours, no questions asked, if the final episode of the seventh series does not leak onto the Internet. Choose wisely."
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Fair play to the fans that got copies early and didn't run to the torrent sites.

Despite being spoiled heavily completely, I'm still looking forward to watching this episode.

30 minutes!
 
S

Symphonic

Member
You guys mark spoilers after the episode airs, right? I want to hear some impressions if it's good or not, but can't watch it til tonight.
 
R

RedShift

Member
Diablos54 said:
Yea, it's quite amazing it didn't leak.

Less than 2 hours left to go! So glad I haven't been spoiled yet asides from
10 popping up at the end.
Click to expand...

CURSE MY INSTINCTIVE HIGHLIGHTING OF BLACK BARS

Shahadan said:
That Pointless show was weird. The candidate thought Lindsay Lohan was in the Top Sexiest Women Alive or something.
Click to expand...

I love pointless. Thanks to it I know there are 2 people in the UK who don't know how many lungs people have.

EDIT:
Symphonic said:
You guys mark spoilers after the episode airs, right? I want to hear some impressions if it's good or not, but can't watch it til tonight.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't rely on it. It doesn't tend to happen in other TV thread like the Game of Thrones one anyway.
 
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