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[Hot Coldman]

What happened to the storyline of everyone forgetting who The Doctor is?

That wasn't exactly a storyline. It was an ongoing objective after what happened with the Silence, but I don't think it was ever set up to be the major plot thread of S7- as soon the title sequence ended on "Asylum of the Daleks", it was pretty clear Clara would be the big thing this series.

It's safe to assume that when Oswin erases him from the Dalek's databanks, that's the tipping point for him to stop lurking in the shadows- he's sufficiently unknown enough by that point.

 

[CorrisD]

But the whole point is that Trenzalore is where "Silence (the organization according to the context in which Dorian said this) will fall when the question is answered."

Yes, it happened and then was undone , The Silence as an organisation would have fallen along with the rest of the universe, everything and everyone that would have died or not existed due to The Great Intelligence and his meddling in The Doctors time stream. They didn't think it was going to happen anymore, their job was done and they were safe.

 

[Mariolee]

Yes, it happened and then was undone , The Silence as an organisation would have fallen along with the rest of the universe, everything and everyone that would have died or not existed due to The Great Intelligence and his meddling in The Doctors time stream. They didn't think it was going to happen anymore, their job was done and they were safe.

I guess I would've just been more satisfied if they had explicitly said or shown that, especially after making such a big deal out of it. And don't tell me they were going for subtlety with the Silence after shouting "Silence will fall!" at us for two series.

 

[Hex]

My Doctor Who watching stash

 

[bengraven]

Best pre-credits sequence ever.

 

[Locke_211]

But the whole point is that Trenzalore is where Silence (the organization according to the context in which Dorian said this) will fall when the question is answered.

Everyone seems to miss that it's actually silence MUST fall. They wanted to ensure the Doctor never made it to answer the question, ie: when the question was asked, there would be silence. Presumably to stop the tomb being opened and the timestream being accessed. They were convinced the Doctor died by the lake, so there's no need for them to do anything more.

 

[Trike]

So wait, if Clara saw all 11 of his regenerations does that mean there are only 11? I mean, that was a dead Doctor that we saw. So Matt Smith = the last Doctor or what?

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Everyone seems to miss that it's actually silence MUST fall. They wanted to ensure the Doctor never made it to answer the question, ie: when the question was asked, there would be silence. Presumably to stop the tomb being opened and the timestream being accessed. They were convinced the Doctor died by the lake, so there's no need for them to do anything more.

Makes sense to me!

 

[Exterminieren]

This is what is bothering me the most. For all of the Silence Will Fall shit that was in the first two Moffat Series, there's almost no mention of them at all this series. What happened to "Silence will fall when the question is answered"? Hopefully the Silence come into play in the 50th anniversary special.

I thought it was a neat little tie-up of the plot of the last three series without being screamingly obvious. It was known that the Doctor's grave was going to be a massive weak point, and possibly even that the Great Intelligence was going to make a play for it. To stop the Doctor reaching Trenzalore, you kill him somewhere else. That was the goal of the Silence, and they thought that they had achieved it.

The overall theme is that the Silence aren't very good at what they do. They cackhandedly blew up the TARDIS, not realising that it would take the universe with it. Then they kill him at a fixed point without even considering that he's tricked his way out of it.

Plus, we're not done. The whole hook for the episode is that the Doctor's greatest secret was hidden at Trenzalore. It wasn't his name- of course it wasn't! What's in a name?- but it's this John Hurt incarnation. If he gets loose, with the Doctor leaving with Clara... that may be what the Silence are referring to, if it isn't the scars left in the universe by the Doctor being rewritten.

Also, with everyone debating the whole 13 regeneration limit, doesn't the mention of the Valeyard in this episode (who went crazy because he was so close to his final regeneration/death) essentially confirm that the limit is still canon?

Not quite. The Valeyard isn't the Doctor- well, not really. He's an amalgam, a shade, somewhere between his twelfth and thirteenth incarnations. He isn't the thirteenth Doctor, or the last Doctor, or whatever... he's a spinoff. Best to compare him to the Dream Lord from Amy's Choice rather than anything else.

What happened to the storyline of everyone forgetting who The Doctor is?

That was last mentioned last week. Why on Earth are we assuming that it's over and done with?

So wait, if Clara saw all 11 of his regenerations does that mean there are only 11? I mean, that was a dead Doctor that we saw. So Matt Smith = the last Doctor or what?

She saw more, we just didn't see them in the flashbacks because... well, they haven't been cast yet.

 

[infiniteloop]

She saw 11 Doctors, not 11 regenerations.

 

[mjc]

So wait, if Clara saw all 11 of his regenerations does that mean there are only 11? I mean, that was a dead Doctor that we saw. So Matt Smith = the last Doctor or what?

Nope. Its just a way of showing the Doctors up to this point.

 

[iMax]

Plus, we're not done. The whole hook for the episode is that the Doctor's greatest secret was hidden at Trenzalore. It wasn't his name- of course it wasn't! What's in a name?- but it's this John Hurt incarnation. If he gets loose, with the Doctor leaving with Clara... that may be what the Silence are referring to, if it isn't the scars left in the universe by the Doctor being rewritten.

This makes sense... but there's a couple of things still confusing me. Where exactly is John Hurt? Is he just one of the regenerations wandering round The Doctor's mind (or wherever they are, not completely sure), or was he 'imprisoned' there by the 'real' Doctor? If so, how did he do that, and how does he get out?

One other thing that confuses me, and this is gonna get heavy so bear with me, but these multi-doctor stories always make my brain explode with paradoxes. If the 8.5th Doctor (Hurt) and the 10th (Tennant) are in the special, how come the 11th doesn't remember meeting himself as his previous incarnations?

Also, have we broken down this quotation yet in the context of this week's episode?

"On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer, a Question will be asked, a question that must never, ever be answered."

 

[EleventhDoctor]

So who buried The Doctor?

 

[RedShift]

Might be wrong but I don't think she said 'there are 11 doctors' just 'you're the 11th'.

 

[zychi]

Someone please explain the significance of the final charcater shown at the end. I dont get why everyone on the internet is blowing a load over him, and im struggling to find info on my phone.

Edit: i get the significance of him in matt smiths storyline, but who is he, and why did he get a caption introducing him like an old animal house style movie?

 

[APZonerunner]

She says something like "I saw all eleven of your faces, you are the eleventh" or something like that.

 

[Avixph]

My Doctor Who watching stash

When did the Doctor eat Papa John's Pizza?

So who buried The Doctor?

The fans.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Someone please explain the significance of the final charcater shown at the end. I dont get why everyone on the internet is blowing a load over him, and im struggling to find info on my phone.

Edit: i get the significance of him in matt smiths storyline, but who is he, and why did he get a caption introducing him like an old animal house style movie?

...He's a lost regeneration. How can't you understand the significance of that? Before today there was 11 Doctors- now there are 12.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Moffet thanks the fans for keeping mum on the spoilers.

Well that was all a bit Keystone Cops, wasn’t it? Our biggest surprise, our most secret episode, a revelation about the Doctor that changes everything…

… and we’d have got away with it too, if we hadn’t accidentally sent Blu Ray copies of Name Of The Doctor to 210 Doctor Who fans in America.

Erm – security-wise, that’s not GOOD, is it? I mean, it’s not top notch, it’s hard to defend as professional level, hard-line secrecy.

My favourite fact is that they’re BLU RAYS. Listen, we don’t just leak any old rubbish, we leak in high def. 1080p or nothing, that’s us. Every last pixel in beautifully rendered detail. It’s like getting caught extra naked.

But here’s the thing. Never mind us blundering fools, check out the fans. 210 of them, with the top secret episode in their grasp – and because we asked nicely, they didn’t breathe a word. Not one. Even Doctor Who websites have been closing their comments sections, just in case anyone blurts. I’m gobsmacked. I’m impressed. Actually, I’m humbled. And we are all very grateful.

Now you might be thinking, what does all this matter? It’s a plot development in the mad old fantasy world of Doctor Who, why is that important? Well of course, it’s not important, and in the scheme of things, it doesn’t matter at all. Just as it doesn’t matter when you’re telling a joke, and some idiot shouts out the punchline before you finish. It’s irritating, that’s all. It’s bad manners.

Well no bad manners here! 210 Doctor Who fans kept the secret, and many, many more fans helped. I wish I could send you all flowers, but I don’t know where you live (and given our record, you really shouldn’t be sharing private information with us.) So instead, if we can get our act together – and I forgive you for thinking that’s a BIG if – there will be a little video treat released later tonight.

10 plus 11 gives you…

 

[Exterminieren]

This makes sense... but there's a couple of things still confusing me. Where exactly is John Hurt? Is he just one of the regenerations wandering round The Doctor's mind (or wherever they are, not completely sure), or was he 'imprisoned' there by the 'real' Doctor? If so, how did he do that, and how does he get out?

I'm guessing that this'll be answered by the Anniversary Special, but I'm guessing that any reference to the Hurt Doctor was locked away by the Doctor, and this interference in his own timeline will allow him out.

One other thing that confuses me, and this is gonna get heavy so bear with me, but these multi-doctor stories always make my brain explode with paradoxes. If the 8.5th Doctor (Hurt) and the 10th (Tennant) are in the special, how come the 11th doesn't remember meeting himself as his previous incarnations?

Normally shorting of the time differential or returning to your own time stream or some gubbins like that. The exception was in Time Crash, where Ten actually used details he saw as Five to save the day. Moffat, ladies and gentlemen!

Also, have we broken down this quotation yet in the context of this week's episode?

at the fall of the eleventh

He fell into his timestream.
Or, alternatively, it's the fall of his perception as the Eleventh by the return of the Hurt Doctor.

when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer

His friends and loved ones were being slowly murdered. False answers would have been proved as such by the doors not opening. The problem was solved by River, who isn't a living creature.

a question that must never, ever be answered

Answering it allows malignant forces to corrupt the Doctor's timestream and possibly unleash an amoral psychopath Doctor, depending on how the Anniversary special goes.

I'm fully convinced we're finally going to see some of the Time War beyond what we saw of Gallifrey in The End of Time by this point. BRING IT.

Someone please explain the significance of the final charcater shown at the end. I dont get why everyone on the internet is blowing a load over him, and im struggling to find info on my phone.

Edit: i get the significance of him in matt smiths storyline, but who is he, and why did he get a caption introducing him like an old animal house style movie?

He's a past Doctor, a Doctor who has committed acts which have caused a subsequent Doctor to deny his contribution to his own name. We knew the actor was appearing in the Anniversary special. Why wouldn't it be a big deal?

Moffet thanks the fans for keeping mum on the spoilers.

Nice of him, really.

 

[Hex]

When did the Doctor eat Papa John's Pizza?

LOL that was a last minute necessity, did not have time to cook.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Someone please explain the significance of the final charcater shown at the end. I dont get why everyone on the internet is blowing a load over him, and im struggling to find info on my phone.

Edit: i get the significance of him in matt smiths storyline, but who is he, and why did he get a caption introducing him like an old
animal house style movie?

Basically we never saw The Eighth Doctor's regeneration. This guy was a "secret" regeneration" if you will before we saw the Ninth Doctor"

 

[zychi]

...He's a lost regeneration. How can't you understand the significance of that? Before today there was 11 Doctors- now there are 12.

Read my edit. I get his significance in the matt smith story up to today, but The pre airing spoilers had fans loving john hurt. What is his significance that john hurt is now in this? Is he from something pre- reboot? Or is he some famous actor ive never heard of?
E: eleventh just made me think

 

[Exterminieren]

I'd just consigned the McGann regeneration to be one of those missed opportunities.

Now it's being used. In the biggest episode possible. Quite possibly with Time War stuff thrown in for good measure as well.

Hell yes I'm hyped tonight.

Or is he some famous actor ive never heard of?

Well, yes, he's a tremendously talented, iconic actor.

He's also PLAYING THE DOCTOR.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Read my edit. I get his significance in the matt smith story up to today, but The pre airing spoilers had fans loving john hurt. What is his significance that john hurt is now in this? Is he from something pre- reboot? Or is he some famous actor ive never heard of?

He's a famous actor you've never heard of.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Read my edit. I get his significance in the matt smith story up to today, but The pre airing spoilers had fans loving john hurt. What is his significance that john hurt is now in this? Is he from something pre- reboot? Or is he some famous actor ive never heard of?

Not sure if serious?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Read my edit. I get his significance in the matt smith story up to today, but The pre airing spoilers had fans loving john hurt. What is his significance that john hurt is now in this? Is he from something pre- reboot? Or is he some famous actor ive never heard of?

Ohhhhhhh. OK, I get you.

Yeah, John Hurt is a legendary British actor. He's on par with Ian McKellen, probably even better really. He was in Alien, plus stuff like The Naked Civil Servant, The Elephant Man, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and tons of other stuff. Just look at his body of work.

He's kind of a big deal.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

He's only in one of the greatest scenes in Sci-Fi movie history.

 

[hamchan]

Fantastic episode, mind blowing ending. The compressed storytelling that Series 7 had this season worked really well in this ep since the pacing was spot on, and at no point did I feel that it should have been a two-parter. Such a shame that only Moffat was able to get the feel of how to write like this, since when I look at the best episodes this series they are all pretty much from Moffat.

 

[BatDan]

God damn, that episode was awesome! So many call backs, all those appearances from the Doctor.
I think it's safe to assume that John Hurt Doctor was what the Doctor saw in his fear door in The God Complex.

Anyone want to start a counter to November 23rd?

 

[mjc]

Great ep. So its pretty much all but certain that John Hurt's Doctor is the one that did the horrible stuff the 9th one carries the burden for?

 

[jerry113]

Excellently paced episode and left me wanting more.

Trenzalore looked awesome.

I knew about the Hurt Doctor rumors and was afraid it would be a shoehorned solution to Eccleston not wanting to come back, but was pleasantly surprised at how it adds into the backstory.

 

[Amir0x]

Man that was pretty neat I think.

 

[Hex]

God damn I love Doctor Who.

 

[SpudBud]

So is River gone for good now? It kinda came off that way. Fantastic episode anyway. It's gonna be a long wait until the 50th.

 

[isny]

Fantastic episode, mind blowing ending. The compressed storytelling that Series 7 had this season worked really well in this ep since the pacing was spot on, and at no point did I feel that it should have been a two-parter. Such a shame that only Moffat was able to get the feel of how to write like this, since when I look at the best episodes this series they are all pretty much from Moffat.

God damn, that episode was awesome! So many call backs, all those appearances from the Doctor.
I think it's safe to assume that John Hurt Doctor was what the Doctor saw in his fear door in The God Complex.

Anyone want to start a counter to November 23rd?

Great ep. So its pretty much all but certain that John Hurt's Doctor is the one that did the horrible stuff the 9th one carries the burden for?

Excellently paced episode and left me wanting more.

Trenzalore looked awesome.

I knew about the Hurt Doctor rumors and was afraid it would be a shoehorned solution to Eccleston not wanting to come back, but was pleasantly surprised at how it adds into the backstory.

Man that was pretty neat I think.

God damn I love Doctor Who.

Wait, what? How was this a good episode? Oh nevermind, as long as ya'll enjoyed it. I don't even care enough more to point out how terrible some of the episodes this season have been. The only redeeming factor in this episode was Clara and her amazingness.

Basically we never saw The Eighth Doctor's regeneration. This guy was a "secret" regeneration" if you will before we saw the Ninth Doctor"

That's what people are guessing, but I'd tend to think he'll be the Valeyard with the name check TGI did.

So is River gone for good now? It kinda came off that way. Fantastic episode anyway. It's gonna be a long wait until the 50th.

The Library River seems to be, but the real River can still show up.

 

[jerry113]

Some of the spliced footage was good, some of it was horrible. The stuff with Hartnell was fine, but like any time it involved people outside you could tell she was edited in.

I thought that kinda worked in a meta way though, considering that Clara herself was literally edited into the doctor's time stream.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If you're up for a laugh - reading through the "50th Anniversary" thread, starting right around post 200, is pretty fun. A lot of the people blown away by this episode were... not as open to the idea when they heard about it first in that thread.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

I thought that kinda worked in a meta way though, considering that Clara herself was literally edited into the doctor's time stream.

The scene with The First Doctor was so great. I loved it so much.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

So is River gone for good now? It kinda came off that way. Fantastic episode anyway. It's gonna be a long wait until the 50th.

Technically I suppose The Doctor could always run into her again-but I think thematically and from a "show" point of view-we the viewers have seen the last of Professor Song.

"Goodbye, Sweetie"

I guess I should have guessed that would be her final line-but man, that gutted me.

 

[zychi]

Ohhhhhhh. OK, I get you.

Yeah, John Hurt is a legendary British actor. He's on par with Ian McKellen, probably even better really. He was in Alien, plus stuff like The Naked Civil Servant, The Elephant Man, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and tons of other stuff. Just look at his body of work.

He's kind of a big deal.

Holy shit. Hes in so much good stuff, as so many iconic characters. Im sad i never realized he was in so many movies i love

 

[GillianSeed79]

Just finished watching the finale. Oh..oh..oh..oh....John Hurt? John fucking Hurt in Dr. Who? Oh my fucking God, yes! Great season finale. Can't wait for November. This is will be a one-off espisode though right? Is this going to be the 50th anniversary episode? I get so confused being American. There's the Christmas special every year, obviously. But this is in November. I seem to remember they do one-off specials before the Christmas special, but I might be mistaken. In any extent, can someone confirm for me that if I cancel my Direct TV subscription I can buy this on Amazon Prime whenever it comes out? I've being keeping my Direct TV sub solely because of Dr. Who, but I really can't afford it anymore. I was waiting for the season finale to finally cut the cord, or dish if you will, but John Hurt changes the equation if I can't get Dr. Who anymore.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

Series 7 is now elevated in my eyes. Great setup and closure in a single-parter.

There are some nitpicks but it's a long way till November and I'm sure I'll get to them.

 

[jerry113]

Initially I thought the final on-screen words were silly, but I guess they wanted to hammer the point in for the audience that yes, John Hurt IS the doctor, and yes, he will return to the show. Without the words, the reveal about a missing, until now unseen, regeneration probably would have flown over a large proportion of the audience's heads.

 

[SpeedySwaf]

Unfortunately, I'm really bad at knowing actor's names, so most of the "wow" from John Hurt was lost on me

Seeing all the stuff he's been in, however, did tell me it was a pretty big deal. It's very rare to have a cinema actor play a significant role in a television show. It'd be cool if he agreed to this if only because, "Fuck yeah, I'm playing the Doctor!"

 

[APZonerunner]

Technically I suppose The Doctor could always run into her again-but I think thematically and from a "show" point of view-we the viewers have seen the last of Professor Song.

"Goodbye, Sweetie"

I guess I should have guessed that would be her final line-but man, that gutted me.

I think that's the end of her until Big Finish get an extended license, methinks, yep.

Unfortunately, I'm really bad at knowing actor's names, so most of the "wow" from John Hurt was lost on me

Seeing all the stuff he's been in, however, did tell me it was a pretty big deal. It's very rare to have a cinema actor play a significant role in a television show. It'd be cool if he agreed to this if only because, "Fuck yeah, I'm playing the Doctor!"

Hurt's not a stranger to the BBC. He's done (lesser) stuff for Merlin, even.

 

[zychi]

Just finished watching the finale. Oh..oh..oh..oh....John Hurt? John fucking Hurt in Dr. Who? Oh my fucking God, yes! Great season finale. Can't wait for November. This is will be a one-off espisode though right? Is this going to be the 50th anniversary episode? I get so confused being American. There's the Christmas special every year, obviously. But this is in November. I seem to remember they do one-off specials before the Christmas special, but I might be mistaken. In any extent, can someone confirm for me that if I cancel my Direct TV subscription I can buy this on Amazon Prime whenever it comes out? I've being keeping my Direct TV sub solely because of Dr. Who, but I really can't afford it anymore. I was waiting for the season finale to finally cut the cord, or dish if you will, but John Hurt changes the equation if I can't get Dr. Who anymore.

You're good, assuming your american, itll be on amazon and itunes the day after, if not the night of

 

[Penguin]

That was a major cocktease of an end.. Nov is so far

 

[3rdman]

Read my edit. I get his significance in the matt smith story up to today, but The pre airing spoilers had fans loving john hurt. What is his significance that john hurt is now in this? Is he from something pre- reboot? Or is he some famous actor ive never heard of?
E: eleventh just made me think

You've never heard of John Hurt???

 

[Hex]

Wait, what? How was this a good episode? Oh nevermind, as long as ya'll enjoyed it. I don't even care enough more to point out how terrible some of the episodes this season have been. The only redeeming factor in this episode was Clara and her amazingness.



That's what people are guessing, but I'd tend to think he'll be the Valeyard with the name check TGI did.



The Library River seems to be, but the real River can still show up.

Here is my question to those who have similar thoughts to yours, and no hate at all I promise because everyone has different views...
How long have you been watching Doctor Who?
I have come to find that those who started with the renewed Doctor Who either at the start with Eccelston or along the way after have much different ...I do not know if expectations is the word that I am looking for but they do view Doctor Who through different glasses (and again not wrong in anyway, just different glasses) than many of us who have been watching Doctor Who from the old days.