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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life

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F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
APZonerunner said:
One thing they can do with these audios is do stuff the BBC themselves wouldn't do in case it upset kids. There's a bit more death and destruction, more adult themes handled more fully very often and so on. It's a slightly more adult take on Doctor Who, I suppose, much like the Virgin New Adventures books that were published while the show was off the air. This sort of stuff is limited to the first 8 Doctors, though, as the license distinguishes and splits between old and new Who.

I think they're a really fantastic 'form' of the show. The books are alright as well, but are I think a bit more hit and miss. I usually listen to the audios when doing household chores and stuff - washing the car, dishes, mowing the lawn etc. Good way to pass the time.

For audios, check out Dark Eyes. It's a wonderful place to start. Features the eighth Doctor engaged in a war between the Time Lords and Daleks (though not THAT war), the introduction of a new companion, him ditching his old costume for something more Eccleston-like, and a variety of time periods including an alien planet where the people have grown to worship the Daleks as benevolent gods. There's also lots of Time Lord meddling, with one Time Lord in particular played by the same guy who did the Dream Lord.

It's really very good. It's written by Nick Briggs, voice of the Daleks/Cybermen/Judoon/Ice Warriors/oh god everything in New Who (also doing the Dalek voices here), a man who is soaked in Who lore knowledge as much as Moffat or RTD.

Alternatively - as Dark Eyes is pretty expensive right now - you could jump on board with Blood of the Daleks. This was the first sort of audios post new-Who - so features a new companion out of the 'Rose' cast played by the brilliant Sheridan Smith. These pair continue for four 8-part series' and two final special episodes, which then segway into Dark Eyes, which is like an RTD-to-Moffat sort of transition, I suppose. Many of the people behind it are the same, but there's a tonal shift for Dark Eyes.

Books, you could look into the Virgin New Adventures. Seventh Doctor books published when the show was off air. A lot of New Who stuff began life here; RTD's contribution features a Tyler family living on a council estate, for instance. Human Nature is a NSA novel. There's even one novel (not by Moffat - he never did one - said it felt a bit too geeky, which famously pissed some of the writers off) where the Doctor's tomb is the TARDIS, which has begun to leak and grow bigger on the outside because it's dying... so I think Moffat read that book, once upon a time.

There's the New Who books as well, but I think they're all pretty much a bit too broad in focus/scope. They're kid/teenager friendly, but a bit too much. I've read a few, but they are simple - think the first couple of Potter books before JK realized she had an adult audience as well, for instance. I think they would've been better off doing two distinct ranges, but RTD apparently didn't want that. They're good, but just a bit slashy and simple, but Doctor Who itself is that a lot of the time... it's just different to the often very complex NSA novels that imo are an interesting 'more adult' companion to the main show. The New Series books just play by the post-2005 rules. They've started putting out ones from more adult writers in more adult covers under Moffat, but I don't really think they're much different, tonally, from the kid-friendly cover ones.
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Exterminieren said:
You have to be selective with the new series books. There's a lot of chaff, but the best of the books are absolutely knockout.
Grab yourself...
Only Human
The Story of Martha
Beautiful Chaos
The Doctor Trap
Touched by an Angel
Borrowed Time
The Eyeless
Forever Autumn
Wishing Well
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the info and suggestions guys, I'll look into it! Shame about many of the books not going as far as they could or not being so good, but the audio stuff sounds pretty interesting.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Dr Zhivago said:
Surprised no-one's brought up the Morbius Doctors.
Click to expand...

I only found out this was a thing years later, when I first watched it I assumed they were Morbius's regens.

Since what ended up going out was vague enough, I'm guessing moffat will stick with the assumption that Hartnell was the original. Especially since anything else would break 13 and deny us the story arc people have looked forward to for yonks.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Sir_Crocodile said:
I only found out this was a thing years later, when I first watched it I assumed they were Morbius's regens.

Since what ended up going out was vague enough, I'm guessing moffat will stick with the assumption that Hartnell was the original. Especially since anything else would break 13 and deny us the story arc people have looked forward to for yonks.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'd be fine with Hartnell being the original "Doctor" even if it wasn't his first regeneration. Like the stuff with Hurt implies, Doctor is the label of his identity, and he may not consider versions of himself before he became that figure to be part of being The Doctor
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Sir_Crocodile said:
I only found out this was a thing years later, when I first watched it I assumed they were Morbius's regens.

Since what ended up going out was vague enough, I'm guessing moffat will stick with the assumption that Hartnell was the original. Especially since anything else would break 13 and deny us the story arc people have looked forward to for yonks.
Click to expand...

To be fair, it's easily explained away as "potential" faces, like those shown to the Second Doctor when his regeneration is forced on him.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Guys

Guys guys guys

Guys

What if there's only one Time Lord? What if its just the same one regenerating over and over and crossing his own time stream to be all of them?

Wouldn't that be dumb?
 
R

RedShift

Member
Only just realised the first River episode was called Silence in the Library. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Also, when she dies Ten says there's only one time he could tell her his name. When would that be, seeing as it apparently wasn't when they got married when was it?
 
G

googleplex

Member
Here's something that I've been wondering. For all intense and purposes, River is a Time Lord herself. Could she and the Doctor have children?
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
MasterBalls said:
My only problem is that The Doctor has owned all that, "I killed them all", etc. I guess you could argue the manner of how he did it is reprehensible but... genocide is genocide!
Click to expand...

The guilt of a man who can change his face, body and personality is probably a far more complex thing than we mortals can comprehend. :p
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
MasterBalls said:
My only problem is that The Doctor has owned all that, "I killed them all", etc. I guess you could argue the manner of how he did it is reprehensible but... genocide is genocide!
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Right. The audience is aware of what The Doctor did, and so is he. Not exactly how it happened, but he killed all the Time Lords, Daleks etc. We've all moved on.

I hope what Hurt Doctor did is something different.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
infiniteloop said:
Right. The audience is aware of what The Doctor did, and so is he. Not exactly how it happened, but he killed all the Time Lords, Daleks etc. We've all moved on.

I hope what Hurt Doctor did is something different.
Click to expand...

There's been a lot of talk about how;

1) The Doctor shouldn't travel alone
2) He fashions his companions into weapons, and inadvertently causes death and upset for them

What if he directly kills a companion? That pretty much is the exact opposite of The Doctor character we know and love. Killing millions of Time Lords and Daleks he doesn't know, sure, but a companion? Something like that, in my opinion, would truly be worthy of a name demotion.
 
T

The Blue Jihad

Member
So, what's the chance that Hurt will actually end up being 12? The whole "Introducing _________ as The Doctor" is really, really weird for me, because they've traditionally used it to, you know, introduce the new Doctor. Plus, Hurt doesn't currently have a number.

I know it's likely another David Morrissey Next Doctor red herring, but I can't help but wonder, how freaking nuts it'd be if
Matt Smith isn't coming back for Series 8, 11 dies ("The Fall of the Eleventh") in the 50th anniversary special, JH takes on the name of the Doctor for good (double meaning)...

The big problem with that would be the regen paradox, but since the timeline is already really polluted...
 
I

infiniteloop

Member
MasterBalls said:
What if he directly kills a companion? That pretty much is the exact opposite of The Doctor character we know and love. Killing millions of Time Lords and Daleks he doesn't know, sure, but a companion? Something like that, in my opinion, would truly be worthy of a name demotion.
Click to expand...

I could go for that, but can't see "Everybody Lives" Moffat going that route.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
The Doctor said he didn't deserve to be called Doctor when he was about to kill a star whale that he'd only met like 2 seconds prior. Whatever Hurt did, it doesn't have to be much.
 
S

Sheppard

Member
As most are saying, the reveal at the end was amazing.

The music behind it all was just as awesome. Would anyone know if this track was used before or if it is new?
 
S

Sheppard

Member
I hate to be that gushing fan, but this is what Doctor Who always was to me. Moving scenes that are full of lore or just a small scene that explains why the Doctor is the way he is. Which is why we are all here anyways. We all want to know why he is the way he is.

While we all make speculation on who John Hurt is going to play; this was the scene that started this thought process.

I miss telling ppl I just like things. A friend of mine hated this eps and most of this season. While I am realistic and know that there were some problems with the season all of it was worth it for this small 2 min scene.

"He is my secret."

FOR GOD SAKE, TELL ME PLEASE!
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
I don't know there were other things apart from the Hurt reveal that I liked. Strax was pretty great (loved when he regressed), the CGI Doctor/Clara insertion was pretty damn good, and just the idea of the front of the Tardis as a tombstone is so chilling. Matt Smith's reaction to everything was priceless.
 
T

thefil

Member
I just bought the Caves on Andronazi on iTunes and watched the first part. Should I go watch some other 6/Peri serials before I finish to get the full affect?
 
L

Locke_211

Member
"Androzani" is her first story as companion, after being introduced in the previous one "Planet of Fire" - her newness sort of makes the Doctor's determination to save her from the story's events extra noble. And she's with Doctor 5 :)
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
There is one part of the Hurt Doctor and the 50th that intrigues me - a theory that seemed to slot together really well that now doesn't so much - real 50th spoilers, though nothing big - this is speculation based on costumes and the few days of public filming reported in the newspapers:

We know from a tweet from the stunt double of Billie Piper (Rose) that her character seems to have a number of scenes with Hurt in the special. Her stunt double (but notably not Piper) was snapped on-set from a distance and appears to be in similarly ruined clothes to Hurt. Y'know, she wouldn't look out of place out in the wasteland in Fallout, that sort of outfit.

On top of that, neither Piper nor the stunt double was on-set for any of the publicly filmed Tennant scenes, either - he was running around with Queen Elizabeth instead, which would suggest a post-Series 3 10 (as he doesn't know what he'd done in The Shakespeare Code and makes his reference to sleeping with her in The End of Time) - in turn suggesting that maybe Piper and Tennant come from different 'places' rather than together.

At the time this led everyone to speculate that Hurt was an alternate 9th Doctor with an alternate-universe Rose, cast to replace after Eccleston turned down, with some sort of twisted take on Rose along with him to help legitimize him as a version of 9. That doesn't gel with the Eleventh Doctor knowing him and his dialogue, which suggests Time War, so... what's up with Rose? Interesting...

Love this speculation time when there's so little information. Exciting!
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
The Blue Jihad said:
So, what's the chance that Hurt will actually end up being 12? The whole "Introducing _________ as The Doctor" is really, really weird for me, because they've traditionally used it to, you know, introduce the new Doctor. Plus, Hurt doesn't currently have a number.

I know it's likely another David Morrissey Next Doctor red herring, but I can't help but wonder, how freaking nuts it'd be if
Matt Smith isn't coming back for Series 8, 11 dies ("The Fall of the Eleventh") in the 50th anniversary special, JH takes on the name of the Doctor for good (double meaning)...

The big problem with that would be the regen paradox, but since the timeline is already really polluted...
Click to expand...

Man no way would an actor as big as John Hurt agree to an extended gig on a show like Doctor Who. I mean that'd be crazy. A few episodes I could believe like this, but to actually take over for a few seasons? No way.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
^It hasn't been officially announced but in the UK at least showed up in some databases and appears to be a 15 episode set including both the 2011 and 2012 Christmas specials. Based on typical timing it'll probably arrive in the Autumn, I guess, though perhaps it'll arrive in December and also include the 50th - as that'll then put them back on track for 14-episode sets including the last released Christmas Special.

People suggesting Hurt would stay need to keep in mind when defending casting someone as young as Smith Moffat said he categorically wouldn't cast anyone a day over 55 at a push because of all the running. It made the fans furious!
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
It makes sense for them to hold fire. This box set contains an "extra episode" for free, so if they hold fire, they can sell a maximum number of Part 1 and Part 2 DVDs, and in the US also The Snowmen DVD, which is separate there and not included.

Releasing Series 7 Complete around November will also make it part of the 50th hype machine to hype up the 50th and hit the Christmas market.

November is fairly typical - the 'Complete' series 1-6 DVDs all came out then - first week of November, really; it's just been skewed by the weird release schedule this year and them chasing a more immediate release model in the US for the split versions of the series.
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
Fuu said:
I never read any Doctor Who novel or listened to any of the audio dramas, but I've been growing curious about them because a lot of the concepts, locales and relationships the series tries to juggle with feel like they could to be fully realized in those types of media.
Click to expand...

Some other people have already covered some big ones to mention, but I'll say that The Holy Terror is easily one of my favorite audios so far (I'm still relatively new to listening to them myself). It's an amazing black comedy written by Robert Shearman (he wrote Dalek in Series 1), featuring the 6th Doctor traveling with a talking penguin and winding up in an utterly bizarre location. Never before has a Doctor Who story made me just laugh out loud so many times.

Whispers of Terror (6th Doctor and Peri) is another good early audio, and one that really plays to the strength of the medium and utilizes sound in some interesting ways. Frostfire, the first Companion Chronicle, is also a very interesting story which uses its format to tell a really interesting story in two different times of a character's life.
 
T

The Blue Jihad

Member
Amir0x said:
Man no way would an actor as big as John Hurt agree to an extended gig on a show like Doctor Who. I mean that'd be crazy. A few episodes I could believe like this, but to actually take over for a few seasons? No way.
Click to expand...

Oh, I know, but a man can dream. I guess I'm just very interested in where they could take the Hurt Doctor. The premise (the Lost/non-Doctor) has a lot of potential and could really shake up what has become a fairly formulaic, er, formula. I'd enjoy seeing how Hurt would deal with a bunch of the standard Who enemies. How much more difficult it might be for him to make a life or death decision about a companion. Whether he'd be like 9/10, Meta-Crisis Doctor, The Master...or worse.

If we could get him for half a season, that would be awesome.

The age thing, I could see it being problematic, but weren't the original Doctors old as fuck, too?
 
W

WordAssassin

Member
I've always thought it would be really cool if the Doctor crossed paths with a future version of himself and then didn't just immediately die and become him at the end of that episode. For example, if in the 50th 10 and 11 come across 12, and they adventure, but then 12 goes along his way and we still get 11 for another series. THEN he dies, and we move on to 12. Then we could get a really neat episode during 12's run that shows his view and the before/after of his run-in with the others.

Like it's weird to me that they always have NEW adventures with OLD Doctors. If 10 is going to help out with whatever happens in the 50th, that means for him, it happened some time between Series 2-4. Which means that, since he is the past version of 11, then 11 should already know what happens. Wibbly Wobbly and all, but still.

(This will actually be my first multi-Doctor episode, I think)
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Some other people have already covered some big ones to mention, but I'll say that The Holy Terror is easily one of my favorite audios so far (I'm still relatively new to listening to them myself). It's an amazing black comedy written by Robert Shearman (he wrote Dalek in Series 1), featuring the 6th Doctor traveling with a talking penguin and winding up in an utterly bizarre location. Never before has a Doctor Who story made me just laugh out loud so many times.

Whispers of Terror (6th Doctor and Peri) is another good early audio, and one that really plays to the strength of the medium and utilizes sound in some interesting ways. Frostfire, the first Companion Chronicle, is also a very interesting story which uses its format to tell a really interesting story in two different times of a character's life.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the recs, Kuwabara, I'll be checking those out too. The Holy Terror sounds crazy in a good way.
 
L

Locke_211

Member
Fuu said:
Thanks for the recs, Kuwabara, I'll be checking those out too. The Holy Terror sounds crazy in a good way.
Click to expand...

If you like Robert Shearman stuff, try his "Jubilee" too - it was sort of the story that got RTD to get him to write "Dalek" in Season 1. It has some similiarites, since it's centered around a lone Dalek on display, but the other characters and the tone and some of the happenings are so much more gruesome and comic than the show would get away with.

"Spare Parts" is also a brilliant origin story for the Cybermen.
 
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