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[Dmax3901]

The episode itself was pretty dodgy but holy shit at that ending. I squealed like a girl.

But yeah, the episode was just irritating. Started off with potential but then River Song shows up and does her whole song and dance AGAIN. So sick of her thank Christ she's gone for good now (I hope). That whole scene where she goes to slap him and they kiss I was cringing the whole time.

 

[Quick]

I keep re-watching that last minute with the Doctor explaining to Clara who the Hurt Doctor was.

"My name, my real name, that is not the point. The name I chose is, “the Doctor.” The name you choose, it’s like a promise you make. He’s the one who broke the promise. He is my secret."

Still gives me chills. And the episode title made so much sense.

So, is it safe to assume that the person inside the room the Doctor opened in The God Complex was, in fact, The Hurt Doctor?

 

[Metalmarc]

Somethings bugging me

Seems more like how amy described the doctor, "raggedy man"


Not so raggedy is matt smith

 

[Quick]

Somethings bugging me

http://s8.postimg.org/o49w06rwl/image.jpg[img]

Seems more like how amy described the doctor, "raggedy man"[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6nel8Hqs21r9nzw9o1_500.jpg

 

[equippedwithtowel]

I wish the finale was just the last five minutes.

Everything before that was so stilted and unnecessary:

• The Great Intelligence felt completely wasted and underdeveloped.
• The Whispermen made a total of zero fucking sense by any metric. They might just be the least developed monsters in nuWho history
• The Jenny copout was weak, Moffat. Take a page from Whedon's book and kill a fan favorite once and a while, which brings me to my ultimate point.
• There are rarely palpable stakes in doctor who anymore. Everything is such a fucking reset to zero before the next dangling mystery.
• River showing up post library (without ever getting the screwdriver) and then saying both sweetie and spoilers in her goodbye.
  
• There were good parts: the Tardis grave was cool and the Clara resolution was much better then I had feared. The "name" of the Doctor was well handled also. If the cliffhanger wasn't so goddamn perfect I'd full on dislike the episode instead of being decidedly mixed like I am now.
• Great arc conclusion coming after a messy forty minutes of actual plot.

 

[Link]

The worst part about the Jenny copout was they couldn't even wait five minutes to reverse it. The weight of what happened barely even had time to register before they were like "It's ok, we can bring her back!"

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The worst part about the Jenny copout was they couldn't even wait five minutes to reverse it. The weight of what happened barely even had time to register before they were like "It's ok, we can bring her back!"

And then they kill her again later in the episode, only to bring her back another time. There's no longer any sense of real danger for the characters, because they'll always be back with the aid of some sort of reset button.

 

[Hex]

Feels good to be wearing the Doctor again

 

[The Technomancer]

I wish the finale was just the last five minutes.

Everything before that was so stilted and unnecessary:

• The Whispermen made a total of zero fucking sense by any metric. They might just be the least developed monsters in nuWho history

They're your standard Moffat-era aesthetic element: vaguely victorian and/or creepy and unnerving (as opposed to outright scary or intimidating)

Like in The Doctor's Wife when everyone is in Victorian garb for no good reason. Like, okay, its not a huge deal, but then it keeps cropping up.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

They're your standard Moffat-era aesthetic element: vaguely victorian and/or creepy and unnerving (as opposed to outright scary or intimidating)

Like in The Doctor's Wife when everyone is in Victorian garb for no good reason. Like, okay, its not a huge deal, but then it keeps cropping up.

Which is why its such a shame.

The Empty Child, Clockwork Robots, Motherfucking Weeping Angels, the Vashta Nerada infected suit and the Silence are all brilliant monster designs.

The Whispermen look like he found a bunch of guys in morph suits and told them to be extras in Great Expectations.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Yeah, Jenny should probably be dead. Vastra could get more interesting that way (she already eats people and uses a sword, show some more of her edge damn it). Maybe she could get Strax to take her off-world. I don't want the Doctor and Clara to have to pop by Victorian England every time the writers want to use the Paternoster Gang, but as it stands they have little reason to leave.

I hope they don't bother with a Victorian feeling for this next Christmas special too. I'd love it if it was something a bit more... I dunno, domestic? I'm slightly yearning for Who to go back to a rough council estate again- Night Terrors slightly avoided its east end setting what with the giant doll's house and all, plus Amy and Rory kinda taking the piss, and the Powell Estate had a nice "home base" feeling during those first two series- probably because it felt real.

 

[Quick]

I expected the Whispermen to be almost pointless. I was proven correctly.

 

[hamchan]

Silence, Whispermen, Normal speech volume men, Yellingmen?

 

[The Technomancer]

I expected the Whispermen to be almost pointless. I was proven correctly.

Yeah, pure eye candy

 

[KPJZKC]

As hammy and awful (to me, I know a lot of you guys liked it) Tennant's acting was, I'm really, really starting to miss the finales that actually made fucking sense. Like the end of Tennant with the four knocks, the drums of war in the Masters head, etc. At least stuff actually happened in those fucking finales.

I really enjoyed the pandorica episodes too, but even those are now fucking wasted due to the fact that the silence/secret/finale we've been building towards for what, two years, has turned out to be complete and utter bollocks.

I am so disappointed I'm saying this, but please come back Davies.

 

[Quick]

Silence, Whispermen, Normal speech volume men, Yellingmen?

Audibles, Screechers.

You're welcome, Moffat.

 

[The Technomancer]

I feel like...Moffat is at the phase of discovery where he's like "its a show about time travel...we can do all kinds of dramatic and shocking stuff and use time travel to resolve it"....and he's been at that point and hasn't realized how bad of an idea it is for like three years

 

[JzeroT1437]

Couldn't Hurt just be

Spoiler

Tennant from Rose's alternate universe?

 

[Link]

When was the last time a protagonist died in this show and wasn't revived by the end of the episode?

 

[Clegg]

Davies and Moffat are just as bad when it comes to wrapping up a season.

Lightning Master, the Master Race, goblin Doctor etc. A lot of stuff was packed into those finales but there was as much miss as there was hit.

I'm pretty happy with how Moffat has handled his tenure as showrunner. Maybe that's because I'm a sucker for mysteries.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

Couldn't Hurt just be

Spoiler

Tennant from Rose's alternate universe?

No we know what he looks like as an old man.

 

[The Technomancer]

When was the last time a protagonist died in this show and wasn't revived by the end of the episode?

Well we lost Amy and Rory pretty much permanently. Donna isn't dead but her character effectively is. Rose was essentially out of reach and assumed dead for an entire season, and even then I was fine with her coming back for a few episodes. I mean, its not like they haven't actually done "this character is gone now we really mean it" before

 

[Quick]

Couldn't Hurt just be

Spoiler

Tennant from Rose's alternate universe?

I guess you could interpret what he said to the Doctor ("I had no choice", "I did it in the name of peace and sanity") as reference to the Human Doctor committing genocide.

But that's not really a huge secret to him and to the audience, and Hurt Doctor is part of the Doctor's regenerative line, it would seem.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

I've been doing a rewatch of the first five finales (and The End of Time II because I'd rather watch that bloated mess then TWORS).

Doomsday and The Big Bang are the on the whole the best and Parting of the Ways has the best ending followed closely by Journey's End.
Doomsday is actually

Last of the Time Lords is like slowly letting the air out of the awesome balloon that was the preceeding episodes, but inside is a long needle that pops it anyway and a note that says fuck you.
Journey's End has the pacing of molasses and the indulgence of a roman orgy, but the entire cast being assembled is still kind of awesome and the last scene is fucking heart wrenching.
The End of Time II is a difficult beast. It carries a lot of the cartoony shit from Part I and has it's own share of bloat. The Diamond shooting was a weak resolution as well. Then again the scenes between Wilf and the Doctor are fantastic stuff and the moment when he finally takes the gun hasn't been matched since as a Shit Just Got Real Moment.

Ranking time

The Parting of the Ways > Doomsday > The Big Bang >> John Hurt > Journey's End > 90% of Last of The Time Lords >> The End of Time II > The one with the Whispermen >>>> The Wedding of River Song >>>> Jesus Doctor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Train going into the Pyramids.

 

[Pikawil]

No we know what he looks like as an old man.

We must go older.

 

[Link]

Well we lost Amy and Rory pretty much permanently. Donna isn't dead but her character effectively is. Rose was essentially out of reach and assumed dead for an entire season, and even then I was fine with her coming back for a few episodes. I mean, its not like they haven't actually done "this character is gone now we really mean it" before

I mean actually killing someone off rather than just writing them out. I know it's a kids' show, but have some balls, dammit.

 

[Quick]

The Parting of the Ways > Doomsday > The Big Bang >> John Hurt > Journey's End > 90% of Last of The Time Lords >> The End of Time II > The one with the Whispermen >>>> The Wedding of River Song >>>> Jesus Doctor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Train going into the Pyramids.

So salty. :lol

Voyage of the Damned had the potential, then it just throws it all out of the window.

I still detest Last of the Time Lords. I hate that everything that had happened was handwaved away. Goblin Doctor was terrible. Martha's quest was stupid. And I feel like it could've played out way better. Utopia is awesome, though.

I flip-flop on favourite episodes, but I do agree with your picks for the most part.

 

[The Technomancer]

Utopia and The Sound of Drums were both excellent, Last of the Time Lords was shit. On this hopefully we can all agree. I still maintain though that LotTL was just really really dumb, whereas Wedding still feels like its actually the worst written of them all, on top of being incredibly dumb.

I also agree that either Doomsday or The Big Bang is the best finale. The Big Bang gets bonus points for the excellent first half, but loses some for Amy bringing him back at the end by "remembering him", while Doomsday eekes out the lead just due to the awesome nature of the Cyberman vs Dalek conflict. So yeah, its very close but I'd give Doomsday the edge.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I've always thought it would be really cool if the Doctor crossed paths with a future version of himself and then didn't just immediately die and become him at the end of that episode. For example, if in the 50th 10 and 11 come across 12, and they adventure, but then 12 goes along his way and we still get 11 for another series. THEN he dies, and we move on to 12. Then we could get a really neat episode during 12's run that shows his view and the before/after of his run-in with the others.

Wait, what, how often does the bolded exactly happen? I seem to recall.... different-era versions of the Doctor always surviving (even

Spoiler

the Valeyard

made it, thought it was touch and go for a bit there) meeting himself.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

So salty. :lol

You keep that shit out of here before it infects everything.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

The Whispermen should come back and... be fleshed out.

Anyone know what music was playing in the finale scene with John Hurt? Or at least whatever on the DW soundtrack that's closest to it?

 

[The Technomancer]

The Whispermen should come back and... be fleshed out.

Anyone know what music was playing in the finale scene with John Hurt? Or at least whatever on the DW soundtrack that's closest to it?

How? They're just like, empty projected bodies for the GI

 

[GameplayWhore]

I mean actually killing someone off rather than just writing them out. I know it's a kids' show, but have some balls, dammit.

How about Harriet Jones?

For that matter, can we not consider the Silence and the Alliance protagonists? After all, they were both trying to save the universe and were brutally annihilated.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

How? They're just like, empty projected bodies for the GI

But... how? The Great Intelligence is like nothing. How is he projecting them?

How is he even existing?

Eh, I guess I thought the design and name was cool enough to warrant them more explanation. The new truly creepy creatures, since the Weeping Angels and Silents have been demystified enough that they don't creep me out anymore.

 

[Quick]

You keep that shit out of here before it infects everything.

The Whispermen should come back and... be fleshed out.

Anyone know what music was playing in the finale scene with John Hurt? Or at least whatever on the DW soundtrack that's closest to it?

I thought that piece was great. Probably going to be a while before we get the Series 7 soundtrack.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

But... how? The Great Intelligence is like nothing. How is he projecting them?

How is he even existing?

Eh, I guess I thought the design and name was cool enough to warrant them more explanation. The new truly creepy creatures, since the Weeping Angels and Silents have been demystified enough that they don't creep me out anymore.

The same thing would happen to the whispermen.

It is written.

WhoGAF is my refuge from sodium related claims until Pittsburgh and LA are sent packing.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I hope John Hurt's Doctor emerges to be a truly frightening and creepy dude in that case.

Sometimes things are better left as mysteries. I had high hopes for the Silence, even after their defeat on the Day of the Moon.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Seriously, the whole "image of an Angel" thing pisses me off. If that were true, the entire of the Earth would pretty much be entirely converted. Know how many photos and videos we have of statues on the Internet? Mere weeks, it'd take, maybe days. And that's not even considering the Angel of Liberty. >:|

edit: Sorry, thirty-seven month delayed reaction.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The Parting of the Ways is so far ahead of the other finales that it's not even really a fair comparison. It runs circles around all of them on every level, and it avoids the excesses that just about every finale since has succumbed to. It has the strongest emotional core, the most relevant story, and has far more meaning to it than any other finale written for the show.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think the Silence could be really cool if brought back properly, although their story is kind of closed now (in a disappointing way)

No more angels for a while please.

 

[Clegg]

I still think Amy's Theme is the best piece of music since the series revival.

Just listen

 

[Hot Coldman]

I think the Silence could be really cool if brought back properly, although their story is kind of closed now (in a disappointing way).

Maybe the Doctor will one day actually end up on the fish vampire people planet that the Silence were said to have taken over.

 

[Quick]

Seriously, the whole "image of an Angel" thing pisses me off. If that were true, the entire of the Earth would pretty much be entirely converted. Know how many photos and videos we have of statues on the Internet? Mere weeks, it'd take, maybe days. And that's not even considering the Angel of Liberty. >:|

edit: Sorry, thirty-seven month delayed reaction.

The Angels were destroyed after Rory created a paradox by jumping off the building with Amy. There was one surviving Angel that took them both, and disappeared.

 

[CorrisD]

Seriously, the whole "image of an Angel" thing pisses me off. If that were true, the entire of the Earth would pretty much be entirely converted. Know how many photos and videos we have of statues on the Internet? Mere weeks, it'd take, maybe days. And that's not even considering the Angel of Liberty. >:|

edit: Sorry, thirty-seven month delayed reaction.

I think the Silence could be really cool if brought back properly, although their story is kind of closed now (in a disappointing way)

No more angels for a while please.

They definitely took some of the Weeping Angels too far with some of this stuff, I would have been fine with the statue of liberty angel, but it should have never moved and done anything, just part of the story that there is this giant angel so they stuck it in one of the biggest cities on the planet knowing eyes would never be off it.

The image of an angel being an angel was silly too, as you said it would have spread indefinitely, it seemed to be nothing more than a reason to put amy in danger for some reason in the episode when really being completely surrounded by angels would have been enough.

We must go older.

God, just awful stuff, we watched this episode at a friends as we were there at the time, it was not a good episode of DW for people to watch for the first time with the nonsense spread throughout it.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I think the Silence could be really cool if brought back properly, although their story is kind of closed now (in a disappointing way)

No more angels for a while please.

That whole River "spoilers" thing at the end makes me feel that we'll see her one last time, in her relative past but after she got saved by the Library. If that happens, I will accept the long-running pun about that long ago episode title.

I think we'll get an Angel-free series for 8. That or their presence will be heavily underscored, little more than a cameo.

 

[Quick]

I still think Amy's Theme is the best piece of music since the series revival.

Just listen

Big fan of this and Life and Death of Amy Pond, as well.

 

[GameplayWhore]

The Angels were destroyed after Rory created a paradox by jumping off the building with Amy. There was one surviving Angel that took them both, and disappeared.

Eh? I was complaining about the one before that, the one on the planet of two headed aliens, where staring at a picture of an Angel turns you into one.

The image of an angel being an angel was silly too, as you said it would have spread indefinitely, it seemed to be nothing more than a reason to put amy in danger for some reason in the episode when really being completely surrounded by angels would have been enough.

The reason was that Moffat wanted her to not be able to see the Doctor's shiny new coat.

 

[Quick]

Eh? I was complaining about the one before that, the one on the planet of two headed aliens, where staring at a picture of an Angel turns you into one.

Yes, sorry. I don't know why, but I read your post as referencing The Angels Take Manhattan.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I would love to see the Silence again, but make them far more menacing and disturbing. There is still some real potential there.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

Series Two had some surprisingly kickass music that never really came back in the same way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMwomsJ9MR0