Hot Coldman
Banned
Yeah, I think that scene makes the Daleks look good, in a similar manner to how Jackie and Mickey beaming in with Dalek destroying super-guns doesn't.
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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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Exterminieren
Banned
I imagine the original plan was something to do with River piloting the TARDIS, and something they did to her while raising her. As I say, though, it clearly didn't pan out.
Well, the Doctor was the only living creature present who could have actually answered. No living creature could fail to answer- no living creature could bear to see their friends being murdered.
It's not perfect, sure, but it wasn't abandoned either.
Hot Coldman
Banned
They never really resolved the "TARDISes" in The Lodger and Day of the Moon, either. Maybe that's how they figured out how to blow one up- they reverse-engineered it?
We need a better explanation, from the horse's mouth.
We need a better explanation, from the horse's mouth.
Exterminieren
Banned
I'll be honest, it never occurred to me that that was a mystery until well after the fact. I'd just assumed that the crafts belonged to the Silence, and the one in the Lodger was just one that had crashed.
I suppose they might have ripped it off of the Time Lords, or something, but I never saw it as a mystery after Day of the Moon.
I suppose they might have ripped it off of the Time Lords, or something, but I never saw it as a mystery after Day of the Moon.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Hey check it out-Strax in real life:
http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/video/strax-gets-his-make-up-done
http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/video/strax-gets-his-make-up-done
While neither were in multiple episodes, they were classed as 'companions' in major one-offs: Astrid Peth from The Voyage of the Damned and Adelaide Brooke from The Waters of Mars.
I wonder what happened in Genesis in the timeline that the GI interfered with.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Rewatched it:
"Unhand me ridiculous reptile!"
Strax is so awesome (Hate Jenny, she's so awful :/)
The Doctor and Clare are still kinda weird, he's going all "Clara, my Clara!" when there's like zero history/chemistry between the two of them.
GI's motivations are kinda funky, but I love the character. I hope they in the next season shows what turned him into someone willing to painfully die just to get his revenge. Would kinda be neat, showing the 11th realizing that it was something in his future that caused the GI to try to kill him in his past.
Btw, the way GI whispered "It is done" was awfully reminiscent of the "Silence shall fall"-whisper. I'm just going to assume that it was GI who destroyed the Tardis, and have one less plot hole to worry about.
"Unhand me ridiculous reptile!"
Strax is so awesome (Hate Jenny, she's so awful :/)
The Doctor and Clare are still kinda weird, he's going all "Clara, my Clara!" when there's like zero history/chemistry between the two of them.
GI's motivations are kinda funky, but I love the character. I hope they in the next season shows what turned him into someone willing to painfully die just to get his revenge. Would kinda be neat, showing the 11th realizing that it was something in his future that caused the GI to try to kill him in his past.
Btw, the way GI whispered "It is done" was awfully reminiscent of the "Silence shall fall"-whisper. I'm just going to assume that it was GI who destroyed the Tardis, and have one less plot hole to worry about.
Dr Zhivago
Member
He possessed the giant clam.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I must say that I like the sound of John hurt being the one incarnation that chose to kill a companion, in the name of peace and sanity. Something like Hurt's companion being in the war zone, and Hurt instead of taking a risk and saving the companion, chose to press the big red button and kill everyone - companion included.
Because while the doctor is fine with genociding species that won't stop, he's never, ever okay with collateral damage.
Hurt had to sacrifice the companion, because he had no choice, but what he did was not in the name of the Doctor.
Because while the doctor is fine with genociding species that won't stop, he's never, ever okay with collateral damage.
Hurt had to sacrifice the companion, because he had no choice, but what he did was not in the name of the Doctor.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Well, when you get right down to it, it was the CIA who started it when they sent the Doctor there without even consulting him, and then forced him to take the actions he did. The Doctor was little more than a tool in those events.
The Great Intelligence
Weren't they stuck on Earth? Thought their attempt at recreating the TARDIS may have been less to do with wanting to time travel and more to do with simply wanting to get off the planet. Since they sucked at building ships, they manipulated the human race into building them -- with the added bonus of them making a suit they could use to raise River in (or whatever the hell was going on there).
I really liked Strax, and this episode is the first time I actually liked Jenny. And I cannot shake the feeling that Clara is just a stand-in for Amy. As in, everything that happened here felt more like it was meant to be Amy, or it would've been more meaningful for Amy to have been therefore. Maybe I'm just still not over the insipid levels of mind hurtingly stupid that was The Angels Take Manhattan. That episode is perhaps the only episode of Doctor Who I truly hate, and its all about that absurdly abrupt ending.
I mean, I like Clara, and I like the way they explained how the Doctor's run into her so many times, but I dunno, I can't tell if they're trying to make the relationship romantic like with Amy or Rose, or Bromantic, like with Donna.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
No... I thought it was clear that The Silence were trying to directly stop the actions of the great intelligence?
Yeah. But what does that have to do with what I said?
The Great Intelligence wants to kill the Doctor and destroy the universe. The Silence want to kill the Doctor to prevent the universe from being destroyed. Blowing up the TARDIS serves the former more than the latter.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
The "Silence" that will (must) fall refers to the Doctor being unable to answer GI's question, because he's dead. Because The Silence have killed him. "Silence falling" directly opposes what Great Intelligence wants.
So how does destroying the universe with the TARDIS explosion benefit the Silents/Silence then? The whole reason their organization exists and is dedicated to making sure the Doctor cannot answer the question is because that will end up killing everybody and the Silents/Silence want to live.
equippedwithtowel
Member
They didn't know the damage destroying a tardis causes. In their defense it's without precedent in the show as well.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
So a multi-season long arc only happened because the chief antagonists were incompetent? That's not really a satisfying story.
Exterminieren
Banned
It's entirely possible that the Silence had no real concept of what destroying the TARDIS would do, and simply looked at it as a method of killing or incapacitating the Doctor.
Hell, it being the Silence makes sense of how it happened, too. The TARDIS was being piloted by River; it's not inconceivable that they'd use the child of the TARDIS against it and include some mechanism in her upbringing that caused the TARDIS to turn on itself.
The first act of a multi-season arc, in fairness.
And no one's suggesting that the TARDIS destruction plot was anywhere near being properly explained.
Lazlo Woodbine
Member
Anybody else agree that the quality of DW, post S6 part 1, has nose dived dramatically?
As much as I keep willing the show to pick up in the writing department; there are so many plot holes and inconsistencies now that I'm beginning to just not give a shit anymore. It's a clusterfuck of un-answered questions, vapid characterization and shallow attempts at foreshadowing.
They spent a whole 1 1/2 series building to the fields of Trenzalore, only to turn it into a 40 minute hors d'oeuvre of, ill concieved, deus ex machina. Having the last 5 mins reveal the episode's true intent - to wheel out a few frames of John Hurt looking grizzly (which in any other context, I wouldn't object to lol) - was just added salt on the wounds.
Moffat is turning me into Kuwabara
As much as I keep willing the show to pick up in the writing department; there are so many plot holes and inconsistencies now that I'm beginning to just not give a shit anymore. It's a clusterfuck of un-answered questions, vapid characterization and shallow attempts at foreshadowing.
They spent a whole 1 1/2 series building to the fields of Trenzalore, only to turn it into a 40 minute hors d'oeuvre of, ill concieved, deus ex machina. Having the last 5 mins reveal the episode's true intent - to wheel out a few frames of John Hurt looking grizzly (which in any other context, I wouldn't object to lol) - was just added salt on the wounds.
Moffat is turning me into Kuwabara
Exterminieren
Banned
Series 6 part 1 had The Curse of the Black Spot, The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People.
We haven't had anything approaching their collective badness since then.
We haven't had anything approaching their collective badness since then.
Hot Coldman
Banned
You should go watch the Flesh episodes again. They're pretty good. Especially the twin Doctors.
They're not that bad.
My biggest complaint about The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People is it really could've been contained to one episode, rather than a two-parter. Though, I guess they needed to really give the Ganger Doctor some time to shine. :lol
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I'd take The Rebel Flesh over just about anything since except A Town Called Mercy and maybe Closing Time.
Exterminieren
Banned
The hell they are. The first half is dull as ditchwater, the CGI's terrible, the one girl gives us the worst performance in modern Who, the climax takes all the difficulties and sting out of the episode, some of the imagery is laughably unconnected to anything... it'd be the new series' worst two-parter if Daleks in Manhatten didn't exist.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I don't understand what you mean about the climax. As soon as they showed the Flesh Doctor during the cliffhanger it was clear what his fate would be- it's not like they led you along with hopes he wouldn't sacrifice himself.
That girl's performance was pretty shoddy, but I really enjoyed the leader woman, especially once she starts acting more rationally (her condition was a nice touch).
I enjoy it more each time I watch it. Not as much as most as Series 6 on last watch (especially compared to the sheer quality of that first series half), mind.
That girl's performance was pretty shoddy, but I really enjoyed the leader woman, especially once she starts acting more rationally (her condition was a nice touch).
I enjoy it more each time I watch it. Not as much as most as Series 6 on last watch (especially compared to the sheer quality of that first series half), mind.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Man, can I find anyone else who thinks that Rebel Flesh/Almost People was one of the highlights of Season 6? When I rewatched them I found myself enjoying them immensely.
equippedwithtowel
Member
I never said I liked it.
Though I wouldn't really call it incompetence so as they actually managed to blow up the damn thing which is more then the daleks can say.
equippedwithtowel
Member
I expected better from you Bara.
ATCM is babby's first morality tale and Amy's resistance felt really forced.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I think A Town Called Mercy is a bit more nuanced than you're giving it credit for there. It makes a genuine effort to portray neither Jex nor the Gunslinger in a particularly forced direction. It condemns science without morals, but it doesn't side with the Gunslinger's quest for revenge, either, and it has some really strong scenes (such as the conversation between the Doctor and Jex). I think it definitely avoids being 'babby's first morality tale' by having Jex undergo an actual change over the course of the story, rather than simply having him betray the characters and making his guilt a facade.
I don't think it's revolutionary, but I do think it stands out when compared to the other Moffat era stories. It makes a genuine effort to portray some complexity and depth, even if the story it tells is a fairly well worn one. At least on first viewing, I found it to be a pretty good story.
Hot Coldman
Banned
#1 reason I want the S7 set to show up sooner rather than later: desperately want to rewatch ATCM.
Exterminieren
Banned
Not just the Doctor duplicate, though. The backbone of the two parter's theme was the question of whether these people could co-exist and whether there was a place for the Flesh at for.
Making it so that at least one of every pair of duplicates to be killed is absolutely ducking out on the themes of the episode and refusing to really follow it through.
Also, it was the dictionary definition of the Sonic solving the problem, and the absolutely pat way it was all tied up (anti-clot medicine, indeed) really rankled with me.
And at another point in the timestream, he actually manages to kill the Doctor... but his companion at the time, a young human chap who looks a bit like Grand Moff Tarkin - takes custody of the TARDIS and adopts a similar persona.
The "GI Timestream" gives the potential for a *lot* of stuff to become canon. And I bet there will be novels and audios set in that alternative timestream at some point. It's ripe for it.
Maybe this has been discussed already, but when the Great Inteligence enters the Doctors timestream and you get the compilation of him showing up behind the older Doctors etc, there's a quick shot of the Yeti. It's not there when Clara shows up in the same set of scenes. Does that mean that both of the Great Intelligence stories with Throughton in the 60s take place after the GI-stories with Smith? I haven't watched those 2nd Doctor episodes in a while, but I can't recall the Great Intelligence making a reference to having met the Doctor before in the Throughton-episodes.
I was actually hoping the repeated appearances of the Great Intelligence were leading up to the return of the Yeti in the modern series, although they made look a bit too goofy by today's standards. The scene in the Snowmen where the 11th Doctor gives the Great Intelligence the idea to take over London through the subway system was kinda neat though. It's a bit fanwanky, but I love those kind of references in Who.
Edit:
If you're talking about the Peter Cushing-movies, I like the explanation given in one of the novels (that I haven't read - I watched the entire tv series and loved it, but also diving into the audio's and novels is a bit too much for me). The idea is that Barbara, after leaving the first Doctor and going back to her life in the 60s, wrote two novels based on her first two Dalek-adventures with the Doctor, changing things around just enough so that people wouldn't think she's a complete lunatic. Her novels were succesful enough to be turned into movies, so, if you take the DW-novels as canon, those Peter Cushing-movies where actually released within the Doctor Who-universe too.
You might even expand that theory if you want to be OCD about it and say that Wilfred Mott had a little acting gig in those movies in his youth. The fact that he didn't recognize the Daleks in the modern series as being identical to the ones in that movie he acted in when he was a kid can be chalked up to good old dementia.
I was actually hoping the repeated appearances of the Great Intelligence were leading up to the return of the Yeti in the modern series, although they made look a bit too goofy by today's standards. The scene in the Snowmen where the 11th Doctor gives the Great Intelligence the idea to take over London through the subway system was kinda neat though. It's a bit fanwanky, but I love those kind of references in Who.
Edit:
If you're talking about the Peter Cushing-movies, I like the explanation given in one of the novels (that I haven't read - I watched the entire tv series and loved it, but also diving into the audio's and novels is a bit too much for me). The idea is that Barbara, after leaving the first Doctor and going back to her life in the 60s, wrote two novels based on her first two Dalek-adventures with the Doctor, changing things around just enough so that people wouldn't think she's a complete lunatic. Her novels were succesful enough to be turned into movies, so, if you take the DW-novels as canon, those Peter Cushing-movies where actually released within the Doctor Who-universe too.
You might even expand that theory if you want to be OCD about it and say that Wilfred Mott had a little acting gig in those movies in his youth. The fact that he didn't recognize the Daleks in the modern series as being identical to the ones in that movie he acted in when he was a kid can be chalked up to good old dementia.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I liked those episodes.
Curse of the Black Spot > Rings of Akhaten, Cold War, Journey to the centre of the TARDIS.
Exterminieren
Banned
At least Cold War and Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS have the decency to have villains and to remember that all their characters actually exist.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I don't think Cold War was very developmental of Clara to be perfectly honest. It was just "I'm scared!"
Exterminieren
Banned
You don't understand. The Curse if the Black Spot had a character disappear out of a locked room and never be mentioned again. It's outright shambolic.
That's a problem in pretty much all of 7b episodes unfortunately. It feels like all scripts aside from Bells and Name were written for "generic companion" because the writers weren't sure of who would be featured or what personality the character would have when they penned it.
Jenna is adorable and Oswin/Clary Poppins were good, but Clara really brought the half-season down to me.
But sadly they lacked writers or directors who gave a shit.
I haven't even watched the penultimate episode yet, skipped it for the finale - the previous episdes were so bad, it's the first time I've essentially even up on watching the show since the dire dross of Delta and the Bannermen. Moff and Gatiss both clearly save their best work for Sherlock these days. Time to give the Doctor a good rest. Take him off air for 5 years and bring it back with a bang again. And for the love of god, please no more Madame Vastra or Strax. Please
infiniteloop
Member
placeholder from amazon.com, but no release date yet:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C6ACVLI/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Probably out towards the end of the year, and have all the episodes from "The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe" through "The Name of the Doctor" on it
The Elite
BOSS
And for the love of god, please no more Madame Vastra or Strax. Please
Please, they have Torchwood written all over them
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