Tizoc
Member
Ah I see thanks.
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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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Ah I see thanks.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Very encouraging. As per many things concerning The Wedding of River Song, Kovarian's exit was lazy and contrived. I liked the idea behind it; Amy's guilt and confusion over "killing" her, but since the finale was so packed, there was one throwaway line about it and then it was done. And Kovarian might be out there, maybe.
The Silence are fantastic enemies, and the concept of a Doctor-long arc is great too, if it's done correctly.
The Silence are fantastic enemies, and the concept of a Doctor-long arc is great too, if it's done correctly.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
A local theater was screening all four parts of Terror of the Zygons today so my roommate and I headed over to check it out. Fun stuff.
Just saw them. Clara and the Tardis and The Inforarium are good but Rain Gods is a bit pointless, apparantly it's a cut scene from The Doctor's Wife.
King of the Potato People
Member
Laurentius
Member
So, I was first introduced to Doctor Who about a year ago. I've watched it on and off since, and have finally worked my way up to Series 7. There are so many episodes that I love, and I really enjoy the performances of 9, 10, and 11.
I just watched Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, and I feel like the show is finally losing me. I was generally able to suspend disbelief for the majority of the episodes because of my like of the characters, and certain plot points. But after watching Dinosaurs on a Spaceship I feel like all of the plot inconsistencies/holes, logical leaps, and poor character development from Series 6 and part of Series 5 have finally broken the dam in my mind.
Does Series 7 get better? Hoping that Asylum of the Daleks and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship were just low points. Maybe I just need a break from Doctor Who. I liked some parts of Series 6, and I really like Matt Smith.
Yes, that sounds good. Time to take a break from DW for awhile, and then catch up on the rest of Series 7 before the 50th Anniversary.
I just watched Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, and I feel like the show is finally losing me. I was generally able to suspend disbelief for the majority of the episodes because of my like of the characters, and certain plot points. But after watching Dinosaurs on a Spaceship I feel like all of the plot inconsistencies/holes, logical leaps, and poor character development from Series 6 and part of Series 5 have finally broken the dam in my mind.
Does Series 7 get better? Hoping that Asylum of the Daleks and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship were just low points. Maybe I just need a break from Doctor Who. I liked some parts of Series 6, and I really like Matt Smith.
Yes, that sounds good. Time to take a break from DW for awhile, and then catch up on the rest of Series 7 before the 50th Anniversary.
APZonerunner
Member
While some of the RTD-era critics might argue for Series 2 or 3, Series 7 is generally speaking regarded as the worst one, I find. I actually think it's better than 6, though, so my only advice would be to stick with it.
You've done 1 and 2, but in the back end of the series you have:
- 3) A middling but fairly solid/enjoyable self-enclosed romp in the old West, with a robot cowboy
- 4) An "invasion of earth" storyline with UNIT that feels very 10th Doctor in a 'large scale invasion being reported on the news' way
- 5) A Weeping Angels episode that's not as good as Blink but way better than the Series 5 appearance
- Int) A Christmas Special that's way better than the previous one, and continues the Oswin mystery
- 6) Another continuation of that mystery in an otherwise pretty dry story.
- 7) An opinion-splitting story due to the way it's resolved - again, it feels a bit like it fell out of the previous era in a sense - but if you liked the 9/10 era a bit more, which I get that impression, you'll probably like this episode.
- 8) Bit of a boring one, but a cool revival of an old Who enemy. Think the Series 1 episode 'Dalek' set on a submarine.
- 9) Probably the best independent episode of the series, a proper ghost story set in an old mansion.
- 10) An episode set only on the TARDIS, showing tons of rooms and concepts we haven't seen before in action and things. The core of the episode is so-so, but what it offers for the lore is cool.
- 11) THE BEST Victorian-era episode they've ever done (and they've done a lot.) A really cool script, quite bold/different, really. The Doctor doesn't even appear until some 20 minutes in!
- 12) New Cybermen. Bit of a disappointment, but a bit like the TARDIS ep, it's a nice 'lore' episode as it explains where the new Cybermen 'come' from and if you're familiar with old Who alludes to how eventually the original Cybermen from 'our' universe (from old Who) and the new ones from 'Pete's World' (new Who) eventually met, allied, and became one. It's a Neil Gaiman episode, so even though it doesn't come off quite ideally the dialogue is super sharp.
- 13) Cool on the lore side again, but I think the finale is pretty weak. I know people will shout and disagree with me for this. It has a hell of a cliffhanger/ending, though, and a wonderful opening sequence. It's basically required viewing for the 50th.
I'm a fervent advocate of Moffat's Who over RTD's but even I have to admit that season 7 doesn't match up to the zenith of Russell's era - it's not as bad as season 1 or 2 though. Admittedly it doesn't contain anything comparable to the girl in the fireplace, but by the same token there isn't anything as execrably awful as the idiot's lantern / fear her / love & monsters / the long game.
Tangentially - with regards to the 50th anniversary, how many weeks of promotion is too little? - because we're getting closer and closer...
That infrorarium short got me thinking - do we think there's any credence to the observation that the silence are essentially the anti-doctor? (in that when you turn away from the silence you instantly forget them, whereas its impossible to forget about travelling with the doctor when he goes out of your life), its still in its incipience, but my running theory is that the doctor somehow ends up "creating" the silence in the process of his regeneration.
If you disliked Asylum, then S7 isn't going to be a fun ride for you.
In my opinion there were only 2 great episodes in series 7 (Bells of Saint John and the finale). Just to put my opinion in perspective: wasn't really a fan of the first 4 seasons outside of a handful of episodes (even though I liked both Doctors a lot). Absolutely loved season 5. Really liked most of season 6, even if it was a bit too heavy on continuity (all that felt a bit clumsy, but I loved a lot of the stories and moments in that season). For me, something felt off from the start of series 7. They were aiming to sell every single episode as a big summer blockbuster (they even promoted every episode with terribly photoshopped movie posters), and it lost a bit off the magic in the process. It feels a lot less personal, especially when (spoiler for the last half of the season)
his new companion gets introduced and written more as a plot device than as a character, making if very hard to relate to her, especially because the relationship between Amy/Rory and the Doctor was so close and personal
All that said, I enjoyed the season more when I rewatched it a couple of weeks ago. I still think it's a very weak season overall, but there are some nice moments here and there. And, as others have said, the finale really is required viewing before you watch the 50th.
Probably better to take a bit of a break though. It's easy to tire yourself out with shows like this.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
"It's turned out to be a..... great spirit of adventure."
I like this theory, but it's not something I'd ever expect to see used. Would require way too much forethought on Moffat's part
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I am really trying to figure out why I like S7 so much more then most people.
equippedwithtowel
Member
I think you're just harder on Series 6 then most people.
I know I am, and I hold Series 7 above 6 (if not by much).
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
A big part of my criteria is "do I want to rewatch this?". I can say that I actually do enjoy rewatching the majority of S7, whereas in S6 there's like...six episodes I want to see again? Four of them are two-parters so its really like four stories though.
APZonerunner
Member
6 is really shit tier to me. The Doctor's Wife & The Girl Who Waited are excellent, Impossible Astronaut/Day/Closing Time/God Complex all range from "ok" to "good not great", and just about everything else can do one.
What made series 6 work for me is that it's very much River Song's story. People often complain (and they're not necessarily wrong) that the storytelling is overly complex, but I don't really see it that way. I kinda like that the season goes nuts with the laws and logic of time travel in the world of Doctor Who. If you're ever going to dedicate a season to River's story, making it wibbly-wobbly makes perfect sense to me. I can totally understand people not liking it though, and I definitely don't think every series should be like 6, but I enjoyed the variety. Series 7 is a step too far in the other direction to me, where everything outside of the openers and finales feels very inconsequential.
For me, the Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon two-parter is one of the highlights of the Matt Smith-era. Doctor's Wife, Good Man Goes to War, Let's Kill Hitler, The Girl Who Waited and Wedding of River Song are all great as well. The rest is okay, outside of Closing Time, which is utter crap. Loved the Doc/Amy/Rory-trinity in this series as well. Their relationship felt a little bit more forced in series 7 for me, but maybe that's just me.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't think her story was too complex, I don't think it worked. The emotional beats weren't there. The reveal that she's Amy's Daughter did nothing for me and I never ever actually felt like she and the Doctor had any chemistry, I just felt like the show was telling me over and over "hey! hey! these two are romantic at some point! you don't get to see it though! but they totally work together trust me guys we just keep talking about it!"
So if they cut to The Doctor and River in bed with the sheet pulled up, smoking-it would have worked for you? They don't need to hit you over the head, you know.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
They do need to show the characters having some kind of meaningful interaction. All we ever get is her teasing him and him acting vaguely amused.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
And I'm not even talking about them kissing onscreen or something. I'm just talking about having any kind of interaction that isn't framed and dictated by River playing up her mysterious off-camera relationship with the Doctor after the fact
APZonerunner
Member
The River Arc in Series 6 would've been a lot more successful if played out gradually over two or even three series' rather than bust all over one series as it was, but I get why it happened; Moffat was getting bored of leaving it dangling - he admitted as much - and Alex Kingston is at the point in her life when every year is visible, especially when every time we see her she's meant to be getting younger.
Laurentius
Member
Very cool synopsis, thanks! Some of those sound interesting, so I'll definitely finish up Series 7 eventually.
Asylum was fun to watch, and at least I wasn't bored (and then horrified) like I was during Dinosaurs. I think my problems with it were threefold:
1 - Further pacification of the Daleks. Sure, I understand that "let's monologue to the Doctor and tell him all our plans instead of just shooting him" is kind of a running joke in the series, but in previous series the Daleks at least seemed somewhat menacing. (Destroying all of reality was kind of cool, for one.) But seriously? They're too afraid to go to the Asylum, so the best plan they can come up with is sending their worst and most feared enemy there to do the job for them? Sure, they thought they would also be killing him in the process, but it just wasn't satisfying for me. Maybe I'm just tired of the Dalek joke by now.
2 - I was excited about going to a planet full of insane Daleks! But...there weren't actually any insane ones that I saw. They all seemed pretty typical Dalek, just broken down. There could have been so much they could have done with a planet of insane Daleks that would have been a lot of fun. Maybe one that thinks he's Jesus? Or a Dalek that's determined that he's actually the Doctor? How about a Dalek cooking show, or a bunch of them that just spin around in circles singing to themselves?
3 - Just really tired of the "Amy, defeat this alien threat through the power of love!". And that combined with the horrid line of "waiting 2000 years is nothing compared to giving you up!". The entire Rory and Amy marriage meltdown subplot was just one of the worst things I've personally had to sit through in the series.
Speaking of Rory waiting 2000 years, anybody else feel utterly disappointed by how they handled that? I feel like they should have either swept it ENTIRELY away by saying that current Rory remembers none of it, since it was a plastic duplicate of himself that actually did it, or made it more of an important plot point. Instead, they've made him remember it somewhat, but essentially ignore it. (Unless it comes into play later on?) There could have been some really interesting subplots there. Certainly sitting around for 2000 years should have seriously changed someone. In that sense he's older then the Doctor. Maybe some glimpses into times where he regretted his decision to stay, how it changed him as a person, certainly a look at the despair that living that long waiting for someone would cause, etc. Barring the desire to do that, I wish they would have said that current Rory is NOT the same one that waited 2000 years, and he has no recollection of that act. Since he was basically just a clone.
I understand that he remembers because he was basically reconstructed back from Amy's memory when the universe was re-booted...right? Still, it just wasn't satisfying or interesting to me.
Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely finish up Series 7 before the 50th, although I may end up skimming through a few of the episodes...
equippedwithtowel
Member
No but they need to show some character chemistry beyond generically flirty banter and alluding to things that already happened.
Also her being Amy's daughter was really lame and forced. Why in a story with time and space travel does everything have to be connected?
And the Wedding of River Song is an absolute mess of design, storytelling and it's resolution is such a copout.
You've done a better job there of explaining what was up with S7 than I've ever been able to. There was always something different in the way it felt compared to other seasons for me, and it became the first one since the reboot where I kinda stopped caring about all of it. A far cry from S6, which I loved for the most part (and contains the Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon two-parter, which is one of my all-time favourite stories).
Anyway, new idents for the 50th Anniversary have aired:
Find 'em HERE and HERE for now.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I love God Complex. So...
equippedwithtowel
Member
Better then the Doctor's Wife and one of the three highlights of S6.
I really like The God Complex too. Is that frowned upon?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Nah, its pretty good. I think its a tad overrated but it came right in the middle of S6's egregious "everything is creepy" streak so that kind of sours my memory of it.
I think The God Complex is probably the best script at dealing with a theme in a sustained and interesting way. It's not my favourite ever episode, but it might be the one I most admire on that level.
I've actually written a chapter about it in this book coming out next month (shameless plug time):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0232530211/
I've actually written a chapter about it in this book coming out next month (shameless plug time):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0232530211/
That is a book that I shall order once it is out!
Good man.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
My biggest criticism of The God Comples (outside of some pacing issues but the show often struggles with that) is that I feel it would have worked better if it wasn't the Doctor telling Amy not to have faith in him but her actually losing it through an actual failing of his. Rather like what they tried to do in The Girl Who Waited actually. I'm just not a fan of how they had him literally telling her "Amy you can't believe in me anymore"
It's interesting though that Amy never really does organically lose her faith in him, despite all the evidence she probably should do. Like not arriving on time in "The Eleventh Hour" - or even the first dialogue between them in TGC is an off the cuff reminder that the Doctor never knows where he's going. Rory seems to be the only one who can actually read the Doctor's actions in a way that leads to a seemingly sensible lack of faith. If no matter how much he gets wrong, she just believes in him and even has a go at Rory for not doing so, he can't really do anything else other than just command her not to.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The God Complex was an absolutely solid episode. It'd be a strong contender for top ten scripts since the revival (counting two-parters/three-parters as one script for simplicity). I mean, it might not quite make it, but it'd be damn close.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Thats...actually probably where I'd put it as well. Top 15 maybe
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm going to put together my list of that now. I'm going to try very hard to distinguish it from what I think are the "best episodes", although there will be a lot of overlap there are some episodes where a decent script was elevated by excellent acting or, in the case of The Girl Who Waited less then stellar acting dragged down a fantastic script.
I'd probably go with, in no particular order
Midnight
Blink
The Fires of Pompeii
The Girl Who Waited
A Town Called Mercy
Dalek
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday (yes its cheesy, but its very deliberately so, it embraces it and elevates it)
Gridlock
The Doctor's Wife
Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways
So yeah...God Complex barely misses top ten, but its definitely in the next five since I'm running low on standouts
I'd probably go with, in no particular order
Midnight
Blink
The Fires of Pompeii
The Girl Who Waited
A Town Called Mercy
Dalek
Army of Ghosts/Doomsday (yes its cheesy, but its very deliberately so, it embraces it and elevates it)
Gridlock
The Doctor's Wife
Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways
So yeah...God Complex barely misses top ten, but its definitely in the next five since I'm running low on standouts
On a weird sidenote, my girlfriend hated Town Called Mercy, even though I hyped that episode up for her 
On a rewatch, it was not AS strong as I thought it would be, but still great. Yet I am not a fan of westerns, so that was not the pull. I liked the base exchange of "if you go by revenge, you will get dirty" , so to speak. That and the angry doc.
On a rewatch, it was not AS strong as I thought it would be, but still great. Yet I am not a fan of westerns, so that was not the pull. I liked the base exchange of "if you go by revenge, you will get dirty" , so to speak. That and the angry doc.Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Question, I'm just getting to the end of series 4 now and am about to watch the finale "Journey's End."
On netflix, after this episode there are 4 more in series 4 that seem to be specials. Are they in the correct order here? I don't want to watch something that's supposed to be from series 5 accidentally.
The Next Doctor
The Waters of Mars
The End of Time Part 1 & 2
Do I just watch them in that order after the series 4 finale?
On netflix, after this episode there are 4 more in series 4 that seem to be specials. Are they in the correct order here? I don't want to watch something that's supposed to be from series 5 accidentally.
The Next Doctor
The Waters of Mars
The End of Time Part 1 & 2
Do I just watch them in that order after the series 4 finale?
equippedwithtowel
Member
Yep. But there should be another special, Planet of the Dead. It's pretty skip-able though, The last two are required viewing
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Cool. I only wish I had more time tonight. The end of series 4 is amazing.
infiniteloop
Member
I've been going through all the episodes on Netflix recently, I noticed there was no Planet of the Dead, weird.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Planet of the Dead and A Christmas Carol are the two specials missing from Netflix's library, so far.
Planet of the Dead is right before Waters of Mars
A Christmas Carol is in between seasons 5 and 6.
Hopefully, The Snowmen will be up when season 7 uploads, since it sets up a lot of plotlines for the back half of season 7.
User 100115
Banned
Waters of Mars is required viewing too in my opinion.
Unless you are counting the End of Times as one episode, if so, ignore me.
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