bengraven
Member
I don't know. Amy says good bye to the Doctor and Rory says good bye to his dad. Actually kind of poetic.
I picture this scene happening right after the last shot of the Doctor...fade to black for a bit and then open on Brian.
Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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I don't know. Amy says good bye to the Doctor and Rory says good bye to his dad. Actually kind of poetic.
I picture this scene happening right after the last shot of the Doctor...fade to black for a bit and then open on Brian.
you assumed they lived for 80 years as homeless vagrants struggling through life?
Right now, they could do anything in those years beside see the Doctor. With the other ending, we know two additional things: they adopted a kid and they did not adopt Melody (otherwise, I think she would be in the letter). It's a happy ending, no doubt, but I prefer as little fixed point in their new lives as possible. Like the episode, anything could happen until you see it.
I guess I could kinda see this as an epilogue, but the last shot of the Doctor scene was the shot of Amy which was poetic and a great ending in its own right. But yeah, a good fade to black and then this scene I wouldn't be too hard on, but then people would complain it was too melodramatic or something like they did in "The Girl Who Waited"
Christmas.
Zeouterlimits
Member
God, that would've been an amazing opener to the Christmas special.
Whose to say it can't be?
It's touted as the "scene that was NEVER shot". I'm venturing to guess that that means they tried to shoot it, but can't and won't.
Every time they tried to the Camera started to cry.
APZonerunner
Member
I've been slowly working my way through a marathon of all of New Who - I'm about halfway through series 3. This is probably the first time I've rewatched anything before Series 4 in years. Thought dump...
Into Human Nature I go! God, I hope it's held up.
- Eccleston is amazing in every episode.
- The Doctor's speech to Rose about who he is remains the greatest Doctor monologue in the new show. Amazing. Tingles.
- I found a new appreciation for Aliens of London/World War Three - which I used to hate. They're okay. When you consider these were the first episodes filmed, they really were very ambitious. It's just a shame the Slitheen prosthetic is shit.
- Parting of the Ways remains the best finale the show has had.
- I actually do rather miss the absurdity of all the pop culture references the RTD era had. I'd completely forgotten about how heavy they got sometimes - I actually laughed at the Eastenders Dirty Den ghost in Army of Ghosts, and the guy from Most Haunted going "Nobody needs me anymore!" This stuff got too heavy often, but once in a while it's pretty cool/cute/funny to see.
- I'd forgotten how terribly obnoxious the Tenth Doctor & Rose were together. Pride before the fall, I suppose, but they really are bordering on horrible at points, cackling and laughing at things that would've worried them before. They come across as utter bastards often.
- The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit is still one of the best New Who episodes! After the quality of that and The Waters of Mars I'd like more run-down space base episodes.
- Fear Her and Love & Monsters both have some really nice themes, but I still dislike both. Peter Kay's horrible in the latter.
- I really do like the way that Rose's departure still echoes through and slowly fades. It's very tactful and right, I think, given how special she was. The moment in The Runaway Bride where he's watching the dancing at the wedding reception and sees a pretty blonde dancing and sees flashes of Rose is a really short, nice moment. Who hasn't done that over a lost love? The sad thing is all this doesn't matter and is sullied in the end when she comes back, but... Amy is similarly special - albeit in more of a 'best mates' way - and I hope her name is uttered a few times in the new year, and that she's not just forgotten.
- Between Rose, The Girl in the Fireplace, Human Nature... The Tenth Doctor really was a lover, wasn't he? I imagine if they ever meet that'll be what the others chide him for. The Eleventh Doctor will get blasted for the bow tie, obviously. The second sadly won't be there to defend him. So many women!
- Evolution of the Daleks. This episode I actually have a lot to say about... because it's so frequently hated. There's a lot about this episode I dislike, and a lot poorly executed (terrible American accents, Pig Men..) BUT...
It's the most interesting Dalek story new Who has told. Scrabbling about in the dark, vulnerable, so desperate they're ripping off their own armour to try to aid their plans. And trying something truly new -- it's a shame the entire Cult of Skaro were obliterated so quickly, as the idea of named Daleks, Daleks allowed to think for themselves - is really interesting. There's something really cool about the way certain scenes are shot. When Sec is detailing his plans to The Doctor, you can see the other pure Daleks in the background, eye-stalks turning to each other, stolen glances... and you can, in spite of the fact they're just big hunks of metal, see the betrayal coming. It's really a very cool Dalek story. They are bastards, aren't they? That story sums up that race brilliantly Shame about everything around it.
Into Human Nature I go! God, I hope it's held up.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Human Nature absolutely holds up. Love & Monsters aside, the episodes of RTD Who with not much of the Doctor are pretty much brilliant across the board- Christmas Invasion, Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink, Turn Left... all cracking. They really were good at writing episodes about the Doctor's world crashing into someone else's, and almost entirely wrecking it, even when the Doctor himself isn't really around to see it.
Actually, I guess Last of the Time Lords counts as a "Doctor minimal" episode too. Huh. Scratch my theory.
Actually, I guess Last of the Time Lords counts as a "Doctor minimal" episode too. Huh. Scratch my theory.
acheron_xl
Member
Easily. Very graceful exit for 9. Shame it was wasted on Rose.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Rose was special because of her story arc. Amy has already been in more episodes than Rose, including the ones where Rose came back. Amy became special because they kept her around for so long. Rose also created consistency between two clearly different Doctors.
I've said it before, and I'll stand by it, we should get a new duo every 1.5 seasons at least. Change the Doctor or the companion, but don't keep them both around for so long. The dynamic gets stale.
APZonerunner
Member
I actually think RTD's decree of "never the same team" - either the Doctor or Companion changes every year - was a fairly wise decree. The way they handled Martha, with her popping up for a few episodes in Series 4, is nice.
Rose being special - well, it's a few reasons, really. For the character of The Doctor she pulled him out of his PTSD, basically. That's a pretty important thing. But for the audiene... I'd argue Rose is special because she was the cipher through whose eyes the entire series relaunched; she was the point of relation for an entire new generation of fans. They got to know the Doctor through her. When all is said and done she'll be up there with Sarah Jane and Susan, like it or not. I think time aside Amy gets similar attention, because series 5 marked a new change -- the series began to really gain steam in America. For these fans, Amy is that cipher.
Hot Coldman
Banned
You're gonna love the Anniversary!
User 100115
Banned
Gully State
Member
I wish we had more episodes of the Eccleston Doctor. He had such a great interpretation of the Doctor despite not looking the part at first glance...
acheron_xl
Member
I would've really loved to have seen 9 and Donna together. That would've been delightful.
APZonerunner
Member
Oh my god.
Well, British TV is generally shorter. A UK show is lucky if it gets 4 or 5 series'. The US will run and run until it has burned out, and that facilitates less cast changes really. Doctor Who is a bit different, but it also basically becomes an all new show every 4 series' or so now, based on the master plan put in place by RTD, Moffat et al.
brucewaynegretzky
Member
Donna: oy!
Doctor: Oy!
Donna: OY!
Doctor: OY!!
Donna: ::scowl::
Doctor: ::takesstepback::
Gully State
Member
You forgot "temp from Chiswick" and "90 WPM"
Fanmade 50th Anniversary Trailer
Even if it's fake, this still got me hyped for the big event. Only a year to go, right?
Even if it's fake, this still got me hyped for the big event. Only a year to go, right?
ScreenSplitter
Member
Would be a real mistake to miss out on a multiple Doctors story for the 50th. Especially since David Tennant seems all for it... and I'm sure Chris Eccleston could be goaded somehow.
Seven Force
Banned
Wow, that was pretty hype, even for being fanmade.
Eccleston? I thought he was only in one ep of heroes...
Maybe I'm misremembering. His role was important at any rate.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Whatever man, he's the star of Thor 2 now
after Mads Mikkelsen dropped out and they picked the first person they could find
Christopher Ecclestone = prat.
I heard he did show up in the comics. Not that anyone read those.
APZonerunner
Member
He's mellowing now. Every single time he speaks about Who he seems to mellow a little more. I think they could coax him back for the 50th, and McGann has always expressed a desire to explore the role more and done plenty of audio dramas.
Last two years Moffat's had dinner at his house with Smith, Tennant, Davison, and Davison's daughter, Tennant's wife and The Doctor's in-universe Daughter. A fan dream! I think based on the close ties shared there we can chalk those three (maybe even four!) up for the 50th as a given, probably.
I think Nine would think they're both a pair of idiots, to be honest.
Hot Coldman
Banned
McGann deserves another appearance. Also they don't need to bullshit about why he looks old with him.
APZonerunner
Member
There's a lot of reasons, it seems, but the key ones appear to be...
1) He's a very, very 'method' actor in general and was terrified of getting typecast by the show. He said he'd never have done it if it was anyone but RTD, who he'd worked with before.
2) Nobody working on the show had ever made a show like Doctor Who before - sci-fi with effects and things like that. RTD said in their first week they were already three weeks behind - they'd planned to film a certain number of pages per day and realized 3 days in that it was wayyy too high. It didn't help that the first story filmed was Aliens of London/World War Three - pretty complex episodes with tons of massive, unwieldy prosthetics. Series 1 seriously barely got made at all. It was hell on set, supposedly.
3) Eccleston was the kind of actor who liked a calm filming environment... and all the problems caused him to have a really fraught relationship with Phil Collinson, the on-set producer, and other members of the crew. Collinson is pretty famous for being a sort of 'no shit' kind of guy, though - it was in the newspapers that when he moved to Coronation Street after Doctor Who he ruffled a lot of feathers, too. There's been suggestion Eccleston was perhaps a bit of a prima donna, as many great actors are, so it's no surprise those two clashed... but he was also amazing... Sadly, Doctor Who is a world of constant changes and rewrites and dubs and things like that. He's spoken of his hate for the dub - but with effects and things, the original sound would often be lost. Presumably Tennant and Smith don't despise trying to recreate their original performance as much.
By the time things got better and the team got a handle on how to successfully make this kind of show, relationships were already frayed and ruined. Eccleston didn't even wait around for Tennant during the regeneration - where Smith snuck in and did his scenes at the same time as Tennant, Tennant's stuff was filmed later and Eccleston didn't want to be there.
Despite all this he has said he never intended to do more than one series due to reason 1... but I'm sure 2 and 3 factored in. You can see his disdain in interviews even as early as the launch party for Rose, when they were still filming.
APZonerunner
Member
He's actively cited typecast as a major reason, even recently - but there was clearly a lot more behind it. Here's the most candid quote he's ever given:
"I left Doctor Who because I could not get along with the senior people. I left because of politics. I did not see eye-to-eye with them. I didn’t agree with the way things were being run. I didn’t like the culture that had grown up, around the series. So I left, I felt, over a principle.
I thought to remain, which would have made me a lot of money and given me huge visibility, the price I would have had to pay was to eat a lot of shit. I’m not being funny about that. I didn’t want to do that and it comes to the art of it, in a way. I feel that if you run your career and– we are vulnerable as actors and we are constantly humiliating ourselves auditioning. But if you allow that to go on, on a grand scale you will lose whatever it is about you and it will be present in your work.
If you allow your desire to be successful and visible and financially secure – if you allow that to make you throw shades on your parents, on your upbringing, then you’re knackered. You’ve got to keep something back, for yourself, because it’ll be present in your work. A purity or an idealism is essential or you’ll become– you’ve got to have standards, no matter how hard work that is. So it makes it a hard road, really.
You know, it’s easy to find a job when you’ve got no morals, you’ve got nothing to be compromised, you can go, ‘Yeah, yeah. That doesn’t matter. That director can bully that prop man and I won’t say anything about it’. But then when that director comes to you and says ‘I think you should play it like this’ you’ve surely got to go ‘How can I respect you, when you behave like that?’
So, that’s why I left. My face didn’t fit and I’m sure they were glad to see the back of me. The important thing is that I succeeded. It was a great part. I loved playing him. I loved connecting with that audience. Because I’ve always acted for adults and then suddenly you’re acting for children, who are far more tasteful; they will not be bullshitted. It’s either good, or it’s bad. They don’t schmooze at after-show parties, with cocktails."
I think the only person he ever really got on with from the production crew was RTD, who was really the sole reason he ever did the show in the first place. It's sad, as the culture clearly changed from Series 2 onwards - once they knew what they were making and how to make it. I think that's why he's mellowed - he's seen and heard that things are different. He said, somewhere, that chatting to Tennant at an awards ceremony somewhere was really enlightening, presumably to how much had changed.
"I left Doctor Who because I could not get along with the senior people. I left because of politics. I did not see eye-to-eye with them. I didn’t agree with the way things were being run. I didn’t like the culture that had grown up, around the series. So I left, I felt, over a principle.
I thought to remain, which would have made me a lot of money and given me huge visibility, the price I would have had to pay was to eat a lot of shit. I’m not being funny about that. I didn’t want to do that and it comes to the art of it, in a way. I feel that if you run your career and– we are vulnerable as actors and we are constantly humiliating ourselves auditioning. But if you allow that to go on, on a grand scale you will lose whatever it is about you and it will be present in your work.
If you allow your desire to be successful and visible and financially secure – if you allow that to make you throw shades on your parents, on your upbringing, then you’re knackered. You’ve got to keep something back, for yourself, because it’ll be present in your work. A purity or an idealism is essential or you’ll become– you’ve got to have standards, no matter how hard work that is. So it makes it a hard road, really.
You know, it’s easy to find a job when you’ve got no morals, you’ve got nothing to be compromised, you can go, ‘Yeah, yeah. That doesn’t matter. That director can bully that prop man and I won’t say anything about it’. But then when that director comes to you and says ‘I think you should play it like this’ you’ve surely got to go ‘How can I respect you, when you behave like that?’
So, that’s why I left. My face didn’t fit and I’m sure they were glad to see the back of me. The important thing is that I succeeded. It was a great part. I loved playing him. I loved connecting with that audience. Because I’ve always acted for adults and then suddenly you’re acting for children, who are far more tasteful; they will not be bullshitted. It’s either good, or it’s bad. They don’t schmooze at after-show parties, with cocktails."
I think the only person he ever really got on with from the production crew was RTD, who was really the sole reason he ever did the show in the first place. It's sad, as the culture clearly changed from Series 2 onwards - once they knew what they were making and how to make it. I think that's why he's mellowed - he's seen and heard that things are different. He said, somewhere, that chatting to Tennant at an awards ceremony somewhere was really enlightening, presumably to how much had changed.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah, the typecast thing was some BS put out by the BBC as damage control when it leaked.
The real reason was that Eccleston was unhappy with the way that the lower level members of the crew were treated by production. He didn't feel comfortable working in that sort of environment, and decided to quit.
Edit: Beaten.
The real reason was that Eccleston was unhappy with the way that the lower level members of the crew were treated by production. He didn't feel comfortable working in that sort of environment, and decided to quit.
Edit: Beaten.
APZonerunner
Member
You never really know what to think. John Barrowman said that he was "gruff" and "hard to work with", and Barrowman is one of these people who is so bloody... cheery and nice and stuff, you wonder how someone like him could ever not get on with someone. The only example I can give really is to listen to Barrowman on audio commentaries with Billie Piper, Catherine Tate, Freema Agyeman, Tennant et al... they have a real-life rapport, hooting and laughing like crazies. Or Matt and Karen, giggling like kids everywhere they go. I struggle to believe Eccleston ever had that rapport with Billie or anyone else, really.
It's rather likely six of one and half a dozen of the other. The working environment on Series 1 was probably very tough, difficult and poor, and probably did involve Producers and Directors snapping at people who didn't deserve it probably as a result of the immense pressure. Some of them were probably just arseholes, too. A lot of those Producers and Directors were never invited back for Series 2, also, which is telling. But... I think he may well have been a bit of a drama queen and bastard as well. This is a man who went on the record and said he thought all Hollywood films were "complete shit", and he only did them every now and then "for the money." (Good luck, Thor fans!)
It's rather likely six of one and half a dozen of the other. The working environment on Series 1 was probably very tough, difficult and poor, and probably did involve Producers and Directors snapping at people who didn't deserve it probably as a result of the immense pressure. Some of them were probably just arseholes, too. A lot of those Producers and Directors were never invited back for Series 2, also, which is telling. But... I think he may well have been a bit of a drama queen and bastard as well. This is a man who went on the record and said he thought all Hollywood films were "complete shit", and he only did them every now and then "for the money." (Good luck, Thor fans!)
Dr Zhivago
Member
There's an episode of Confidential about this, Tennant hated doing it but recognised it was necessary.
Not seen that quote before, and I really like it.
I can't imagine well. He doesn't seem the marrying type.
infiniteloop
Member
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