Support NeoGAF

[Loomy]

Sure, everything is pandering. The Haitians were already in Vice City and had problems with the Cubans. If I recall correctly,there are like 3 million+ Black people in Florida,there population isn't insignificant.

You're absolutely right. And if this game intentionally excluded them, that would be a huge problem. But - and I just rewatched the trailer to be sure - it does not.

What would be pandering, is adding people of other races to the list of playable protagonists just to fill up a bingo card.

 

[Drew1440]

The third protagonist could easily be DLC, kind of like how GTA IV handled it where each one had their own set of missions, and they were treated as separate spin-offs (Lost and the Damned) that could integrate with the main game.

 

[shamoomoo]

You're absolutely right. And if this game intentionally excluded them, that would be a huge problem. But - and I just rewatched the trailer to be sure - it does not.

What would be pandering, is adding people of other races to the list of playable protagonists just to fill up a bingo card.

I'm not sure if you are aware,but Hispanics are rolled into the broader white population and going by Florida's enumeration, Hispanic are like 72% of the total population.

Go by the numbers alone,the fact the main male protagonist is so visible white is wrong, he should look similar to Lucia. Personally, I don't care about the actual male protagonist depiction but it's weird that the idea of a suggestion of non-white playable third character whose group has actually history in Florida as pandering is weird.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Rock star wants you to embrace multiple characters

 

[StueyDuck]

after red dead 2 I much prefer them to focus on one character (or do a switcharoo post main campaign).

to me the character switching in GTA5 always felt like gimmick. I basically never played as trevor cause his character was just annoying.

 

[Loomy]

I'm not sure if you are aware,but Hispanics are rolled into the broader white population and going by Florida's enumeration, Hispanic are like 72% of the total population.

Go by the numbers alone,the fact the main male protagonist is so visible white is wrong, he should look similar to Lucia. Personally, I don't care about the actual male protagonist depiction but it's weird that the idea of a suggestion of non-white playable third character whose group has actually history in Florida as pandering is weird.

I get what you're saying, and maybe I worded it wrong. I'm a visible minority, and I would love to see more people like me in the content I consume. But if someone does it just for the sake of filling a quota - which it would be in this case - then I get annoyed as shit. Like, "This story is inspired by Bonnie & Clyde and their 3rd friend".

Like I said, the game looks like it does a good job of displaying the diverse population of Florida/Miami. Or at least the trailer does.

 

[Mister Apoc]

I'm not sure if you are aware,but Hispanics are rolled into the broader white population and going by Florida's enumeration, Hispanic are like 72% of the total population.

Go by the numbers alone,the fact the main male protagonist is so visible white is wrong, he should look similar to Lucia. Personally, I don't care about the actual male protagonist depiction but it's weird that the idea of a suggestion of non-white playable third character whose group has actually history in Florida as pandering is weird.

I am sorry but this is stupid for many reasons, but I'll give you 3 off the bat.

Rockstar doesn't approach character design/development based on the ethnic census numbers of the city they are using lol. That is a shitty way to approach game design. Last time i check New York doesn't have a huge Serbian population but the main protagonist in GTA 4 was a Serbian immigrant.

Second, Its possible Jason is representing the "Panhandle" aspect of Florida i.e rednecks in contrast to Lucia being more "urban". as the trailer had a lot of country stuff like mudding which is huge in Florida.

Third, Rockstar can do whatever they want. They have done a pretty good job in diversity in the past. If they have a white guy as protagonist, its because they wanted that character, simple as that

 

[balls of snow]

Having two mc is more than enough. Look at rdr2. You only played as Arthur but the whole Van der Linde gang gets ton of development and and really feels like a family throughout the game. So when the gang imploded you really felt it.

 

[Kikorin]

Having 3 characters in GTA V was interesting on paper, but not much in execution. I'd take just a single protagonist like in older GTA, I think can become more memorable.

 

[shamoomoo]

I am sorry but this is stupid for many reasons, but I'll give you 3 off the bat.

Rockstar doesn't approach character design/development based on the ethnic census numbers of the city they are using lol. That is a shitty way to approach game design. Last time i check New York doesn't have a huge Serbian population but the main protagonist in GTA 4 was a Serbian immigrant.

Second, Its possible Jason is representing the "Panhandle" aspect of Florida i.e rednecks in contrast to Lucia being more "urban". as the trailer had a lot of country stuff like mudding which is huge in Florida.

Third, Rockstar can do whatever they want. They have done a pretty good job in diversity in the past. If they have a white guy as protagonist, its because they wanted that character, simple as that

That's really the point. Since GTA 4, which is supposed to a modern take on GTA formula,the leads have all been white male whether the are immigrants or native born.

Heck, even in the reveal trailer of 5 you don't even see Franklin. I would say he feels tacked on, but if GTA was just Michael and Trevor, I'm the sure overall game wouldn't feel too different because the beginning opens with anyways.

Also,I find it funny what people consider "pandering." So we can have all type of depiction of white men,but if a SUGGESTION of something different with regards to the GTA formula it's an issue? Even Lucia being talked about as a possible lead has some people getting offended.

Again,I personally don't care about who leads in whatever game,but it's more than strange that folks with enough representation finds faults with people who consumes the same medium them wants some different.

 

[SHA]

The funny guy, yeah, better, we don't want a 3rd guy who usually funny.

 

[The Infectious Paradox]

Fuck no! I barely want 2. GTAV was terrible

 

[Mister Apoc]

That's really the point. Since GTA 4, which is supposed to a modern take on GTA formula,the leads have all been white male whether the are immigrants or native born.

Heck, even in the reveal trailer of 5 you don't even see Franklin. I would say he feels tacked on, but if GTA was just Michael and Trevor, I'm the sure overall game wouldn't feel too different because the beginning opens with anyways.

Also,I find it funny what people consider "pandering." So we can have all type of depiction of white men,but if a SUGGESTION of something different with regards to the GTA formula it's an issue? Even Lucia being talked about as a possible lead has some people getting offended.

Again,I personally don't care about who leads in whatever game,but it's more than strange that folks with enough representation finds faults with people who consumes the same medium them wants some different.

Niko is a Serbian immigrant, Trevor is a Canadian psychopath, Michael is a midwestern bank robber, Johnny is a Jewish biker

reducing all these characters to their "whiteness" is boring and cheap, they are all unique characters. You also can't disregard the PoC characters like Luis, Franklin and Lucia

as for the bolded, you are NOT entitled to Rockstar making a protagonist for you, they can do whatever they want to

 

[CartesianMan]

It's a modernized fictional story of Bonnie and Clyde, where the male protagonist takes a back seat.
At least, the marketing implies this.
I'm curious to see how this fits into GTA because a 'girl-boss' character is the last thing I want to play.
I'm really tired of this strong females are equal to the man but the man are pussies.
But let's see hopefully I'm dead wrong.

 

[Mister Apoc]

It's a modernized fictional story of Bonnie and Clyde, where the male protagonist takes a back seat.
At least, the marketing implies this.
I'm curious to see how this fits into GTA because a 'girl-boss' character is the last thing I want to play.
I'm really tired of this strong females are equal to the man but the man are pussies.
But let's see hopefully I'm dead wrong.

i disagree that Jason will take a backseat since he's front in the official art

 

[Kerotan]

You want the third guy sitting on a stool in the corner of the room?

Come on man.

 

[EDMIX]

Having two mc is more than enough. Look at rdr2. You only played as Arthur but the whole Van der Linde gang gets ton of development and and really feels like a family throughout the game. So when the gang imploded you really felt it.

Underrated comment in the thread.

Semi OT, I wish they let you go further with him being evil, I was out here killing sooooooooo much lol Robbing stores for no reason, just to be a bitch.

 

[nkarafo]

I never like it when games force me to juggle between multiple characters. Especially when those games also have RPG mechanics and stats you can improve on each. It's the main reason why i don't like CRPGs like the Baldur's Gate games. I just want to focus on a single character.

 

[shamoomoo]

Niko is a Serbian immigrant, Trevor is a Canadian psychopath, Michael is a midwestern bank robber, Johnny is a Jewish biker

reducing all these characters to their "whiteness" is boring and cheap, they are all unique characters. You also can't disregard the PoC characters like Luis, Franklin and Lucia

as for the bolded, you are NOT entitled to Rockstar making a protagonist for you, they can do whatever they want to

The only thing I pointed out was the fact that most of the male leads in modern GTA games have the complexion,I didn't downplay each characters relative uniqueness.

Also,why are you getting so defensive here?

 

[JusticeForAll]

Isn't GTA a crime simulator?

 

[shamoomoo]

Isn't GTA a crime simulator?

In what way? There are consequences to for killing people. Unlike China Wars,you can't be a low level drugs dealer,our character can't contract STDs/STIs for messing with street walkers and the there are too many heinous crimes that can be committed.

 

[Mister Apoc]

The only thing I pointed out was the fact that most of the male leads in modern GTA games have the complexion,I didn't downplay each characters relative uniqueness.

Also,why are you getting so defensive here?

let me ask you a question

would you rather Rockstar do the characters they want to do, the characters they want to tell stories about instead of doing something that YOU might find more appealing, that might be more relatable to YOU. I'm using "you" here in the general sense but you will get the drift

certainty I am not going to tell Martin Scorsese that he can't do stories about the Italian-American experience. Or that he has to do certain films with certain characters. Obviously not because that is not how art at any serious level should be approached at all

 

[ahtlas7]

I don’t know. They should give us a demo so we can try it out.

 

[Trilobit]

I honestly think two playable and intertwined characters is too much. I prefer when it's just one person so that I can see the story from their point of view. Whenever I get to control a second character it takes me out of the story for some reason.

 

[Trunim]

I think 2 is the best out of 1 or 3. At least, let's try it it in this game and see. 3 was too many, the story suffered for it.

 

[TheKratos]

Give me 1 protagonist. This multiple protagonist shit sucks.

 

[MALpractice311]

seems like its going backwards from GTA V which had 3 completely different personalities with Michael, Trevor and Franklin

we know the two leads for GTA VI are Jason and Lucia, a white redneck guy and a Hispanic lady that seem to be a "Bonnie and Clyde" couple

why i am sure the story will be good and they will be written great. Miami has a huge Caribbean cultural presence i.e Haitians, Jamaicans etc. It would of been cool to see a 3rd protagonist that could of been Caribbean or even Cuban etc. That way we get a bigger set of diversity between characters

going from 3 characters in GTA V to two seems like a downgrade

LOL. What are you talking about? You do know Cubans and many Caribbeans ARE Hispanic, right? Lucia may well be Cuban. Or Dominican. Or Puerto Rican. Or any of the other dozen Hispanic Island nations.

 

[Mister Apoc]

LOL. What are you talking about? You do know Cubans and many Caribbeans ARE Hispanic, right? Lucia may well be Cuban. Or Dominican. Or Puerto Rican. Or any of the other dozen Hispanic Island nations.

maybe.....i think her actress is Dominican though so they may just base Lucia off that

 

[MALpractice311]

maybe.....i think her actress is Dominican though so they may just base Lucia off that

So then your original complaint makes even less sense, since you yourself are acknowledging that she is Hispanic and possibly Caribbean Hispanic.

 

[shamoomoo]

let me ask you a question

would you rather Rockstar do the characters they want to do, the characters they want to tell stories about instead of doing something that YOU might find more appealing, that might be more relatable to YOU. I'm using "you" here in the general sense but you will get the drift

certainty I am not going to tell Martin Scorsese that he can't do stories about the Italian-American experience. Or that he has to do certain films with certain characters. Obviously not because that is not how art at any serious level should be approached at all

The founders/writers of Rockstar Games aren't Americans but British,the fact there was only one GTA based in the UK is weird to me. Besides,when a person forms a character whether original or amalgamation of instances and people there's already racial basis for them.

Unless his character is supposed to be a homage to San Andreas,the creation of Franklin was apart of the GTA 5. Also,you are comparing an individual to a company with hundreds of staff.

 

[Mister Apoc]

The founders/writers of Rockstar Games aren't Americans but British,the fact there was only one GTA based in the UK is weird to me. Besides,when a person forms a character whether original or amalgamation of instances and people there's already racial basis for them.

Unless his character is supposed to be a homage to San Andreas,the creation of Franklin was apart of the GTA 5. Also,you are comparing an individual to a company with hundreds of staff.

GTA has always meant to be a British satire of Americana.

The problem I think were having here is that you seem to think Rockstar approaches character design by "hey lets have a white guy" and I don't think that how they approach stuff like that at all. It's a long process.

The issue really seems to be the fact that you really just want Rockstar to operate a certain way. You think their should be a Hispanic protagonist because they are the dominant population in Florida , but as I said earlier, I don't think Rockstar approaches game design that way, but even if i was using your logic. Florida is known to being a huge redneck state which means Jason would fit anyways.

Diversity is important and representation matters,i would never disagree with that. But i think the disconnect we are having is you don't think the series is diverse enough and I'm the opposite, I do think the characters have been diverse

 

[R6Rider]

I didn't mind having three in GTAV, but it could have been done better. GTAV had bigger issues overall.

Going three, two, or back to one would all be okay with me as long as it's done well.

 

[shamoomoo]

GTA has always meant to be a British satire of Americana.

The problem I think were having here is that you seem to think Rockstar approaches character design by "hey lets have a white guy" and I don't think that how they approach stuff like that at all. It's a long process.

The issue really seems to be the fact that you really just want Rockstar to operate a certain way. You think their should be a Hispanic protagonist because they are the dominant population in Florida , but as I said earlier, I don't think Rockstar approaches game design that way, but even if i was using your logic. Florida is known to being a huge redneck state which means Jason would fit anyways.

Diversity is important and representation matters,i would never disagree with that. But i think the disconnect we are having is you don't think the series is diverse enough and I'm the opposite, I do think the characters have been diverse

I think that was the case for the top-down entries of GTA games where you could choose from a select list of characters,but GTA games from the PS2 onwards,we had no choice over how our characters looked like. It wasn't a general story where we can personalized our character like Saint's Row.


Again,I don't personally care about the race of most game characters, it's just weird the 5011 excuses or whataboutism that some folks used to dismiss a suggestion or possibly with some gaming franchises.

 

[Mister Apoc]

I think that was the case for the top-down entries of GTA games where you could choose from a select list of characters,but GTA games from the PS2 onwards,we had no choice over how our characters looked like. It wasn't a general story where we can personalized our character like Saint's Row.


Again,I don't personally care about the race of most game characters, it's just weird the 5011 excuses or whataboutism that some folks used to dismiss a suggestion or possibly with some gaming franchises.

Rockstar will never do a custom protagonist in a game, thats just not how they role, it will always be a fixed character with a set story, personality etc. with limited customization like wardrobe, hair etc. and im glad that way

CaC are usually boring

 

[Drew1440]

It does seem like a step backwards (2 is smaller than 3) but I hope Rockstar adds an additional campaign as DLC, each with their own protagonist like the GTA IV expansions that are intertwined with the main game.

 

[CartesianMan]

i disagree that Jason will take a backseat since he's front in the official art

Ok

 

[PleazureDome]

I'm just hoping they somehow find a way to get Luis guzman to do a character in this game.

He's already in GTA: Vice City and Vice City stories. Are you asking if he should reprise his role or play a new one? (Can't remember if he dies or not)

 

[elmos-acc]

I feel like having two playable characters is such an interesting opportunity in the medium of gaming, if the point is that those characters really do interact with the world differently in a meaningful way. It also usually feels jarring in videogames to have any scenes without the character you are currently playing as, limiting your story opportunities.

GTA V had a minor character problem and a major story problem. They had ambitious ideas but couldn't stick the landing in almost anything for me. Including the three-protagonist system.