Does Mario Sunshine Deserve The Hate It Gets?
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Boy Wander
Member
It doesn't deserve hate. Compared to most games of its genre, it is fantastic. It's problem is that it followed SM64 and was followed by Galaxy. Like a very good Beatles album being sandwiched between Revolver and Sgt Peppers.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Yeah it does. I played the demo level at least half dozen times on the demo station in my local games and never wanted a Gamecube as a kid.
And I was throughly in the Nintendo camp with the N64
And I was throughly in the Nintendo camp with the N64
No, the game is great. There are some straight up bad sections, but you can beat it without having to touch most of them. I love how many of the levels are just like big playgrounds. Doing crazy flips and blasting around with FLUDD and those analog triggers feels amazing. I still bust it out on my cube every once in a while.
The game is not that bad, but it's a bad game. Definitely the worst 3D Mario game, better said, the only bad 3D Mario game.
Here are two videos that explain why the game is bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQK16yhkPug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14gO3U_8hkg
The first one didn't like it much, the second one liked it. Anyway, they both recommend giving the game a try, something I would never do.
Many people ask for a HD remake of the game. Even if I wouldn't buy it (for now), I don't see it as a bad thing. Nintendo could take the advantage to improve the original game, fixing all those gameplay and design failures the game has, and make it the decent game it had to be. If they did that, I would probably give it a try.
Here are two videos that explain why the game is bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQK16yhkPug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14gO3U_8hkg
The first one didn't like it much, the second one liked it. Anyway, they both recommend giving the game a try, something I would never do.
Many people ask for a HD remake of the game. Even if I wouldn't buy it (for now), I don't see it as a bad thing. Nintendo could take the advantage to improve the original game, fixing all those gameplay and design failures the game has, and make it the decent game it had to be. If they did that, I would probably give it a try.
I wasn't aware that it was hated. Then I see all of the shitposts in here with people hating it.
Ranking games I understand. Some things will be ahead of others. Some things behind. I even rank it last as far as the 3d format games go. But outright dislike? I doubt it's legitimate. Being turned off by the movements/ mechanics and not giving it a chance sure. But saying it's a bad game outright? The hell? The game is great.
I guess there really is no accounting for taste.
Ranking games I understand. Some things will be ahead of others. Some things behind. I even rank it last as far as the 3d format games go. But outright dislike? I doubt it's legitimate. Being turned off by the movements/ mechanics and not giving it a chance sure. But saying it's a bad game outright? The hell? The game is great.
I guess there really is no accounting for taste.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
http://caneandrinse.com/super-mario-sunshine-cane-rinse-121/
Very in-depth podcast where they discuss the game and the criticism it received.
Personally, no I think its great.
Very in-depth podcast where they discuss the game and the criticism it received.
Personally, no I think its great.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
It's a great game with a few flaws, but it followed SM64, which was an incredible game. I think a lot of the abuse is by comparison.
I still like to play the secret stages every now and then, those were amazing.
I still like to play the secret stages every now and then, those were amazing.
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
Absolutely not. Needed more time in the oven, but people saying it's the worst mainline Mario confuse me.
The setting is fun and colorful, the graphics in some regards like water and the goo have held up wonderfully, and it offers one of Mario's most robust movement sets of any game.
The setting is fun and colorful, the graphics in some regards like water and the goo have held up wonderfully, and it offers one of Mario's most robust movement sets of any game.
Earthpainting
Member
I know it was seen as a disappointment, but I haven't seen a lot of outright hate for it. There's a lot to love, but it does have a bunch of little problems and unpopular decisions. The biggest problem with the game is that it feels padded. Collecting coins is something I don't enjoy doing, and it's what you'll be doing a lot in Sunshine.
I'd say you may have a good time with it if you don't push yourself to 100% completion, and don't mind a difficulty curve that is all over the place. I prefer it over Mario 64 at the end of the day, so it must have done something right.
Edit
Ah, you guys made me remember the pachinko stage. Video games don't usually make me angry, but that one...oooooooh boy it tried my patience.
I'd say you may have a good time with it if you don't push yourself to 100% completion, and don't mind a difficulty curve that is all over the place. I prefer it over Mario 64 at the end of the day, so it must have done something right.
Edit
Ah, you guys made me remember the pachinko stage. Video games don't usually make me angry, but that one...oooooooh boy it tried my patience.
Shuggananas
Banned
No, it's a solid 3D plat, only annoying thing is blue coins.
Looks gorgeous too.
Looks gorgeous too.
It has the most apparent flaws. Remember, calling it a bad Mario game isn't the same as calling it a bad game.
Some examples of the big flaws:
The levels themselves are in some ways more fun than the missions. It was fun to just play Mario and run about, but the tasks themselves bogged it down.
Moving slowly back to goal structure of the 2D games with the Galaxy and 3D titles is a step in the right direction in my opinion. Pushing watermelons is not fun. Getting to the top of Ricco Harbor is fun. There's a reason people remember the bonus worlds, because they were platform skills based (minus a few oddities like that one where you needed to be thrown at the exact angle or die (add that to the list of big flaws)).
Some examples of the big flaws:
- A camera you must fight such as behind the ferris wheel *shudder*
- The awful lava boat section before the final boss
- Some ridiculously tedious sections like getting Yoshi to that island.
- Blue coins padding out the shine total
The levels themselves are in some ways more fun than the missions. It was fun to just play Mario and run about, but the tasks themselves bogged it down.
Moving slowly back to goal structure of the 2D games with the Galaxy and 3D titles is a step in the right direction in my opinion. Pushing watermelons is not fun. Getting to the top of Ricco Harbor is fun. There's a reason people remember the bonus worlds, because they were platform skills based (minus a few oddities like that one where you needed to be thrown at the exact angle or die (add that to the list of big flaws)).
I also think that the Splac-free levels were too hard imho.
And, generally, I don't like the "open world" hub, but the more streamlined Mario 3D (like Galaxy, especially 2, and World3d).
But I agree that is a very good 3d platformer, and I'd like to see a better refined sequel too
Dr. Buni
Member
Fitting username.
Mario Sunshine is fantastic. While not as important as Mario 64, I enjoyed it a lot more than its predecessor. The comparison with Mario 2 (USA) is fitting, because both games are really great and under appreciated, for being too different from other games in the series.
Nintendoga
Member
Lotta flaws but it's one of my favorites. Mario's control in Sunshine is the 3D equal to his control in World. Absolute perfection imo.
100% reward is pretty shitty but tbh it's not like most of the other Mario games are any better when it comes to that.
100% reward is pretty shitty but tbh it's not like most of the other Mario games are any better when it comes to that.
No, it doesn't. It has a lot of flaws, but it's also a very enjoyable game. It's definitely the worst of the 3D games andprobably one of the weakest entries in the series, but I had a lot of fun with it and the FLUDD added a new flair to the platforming. The FLUDDless levels were also some of my favorite pure platforming segments in the series.
I would never recommend to anyone to 100% it though, the blue coins are a royal pain in the ass to collect.
I would never recommend to anyone to 100% it though, the blue coins are a royal pain in the ass to collect.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I despised it.
I hated the FLUDD gimmick period. Hated cleaning off walls while fending off blob things in a zoomed in view. Just not my idea of a Mario game.
Not surprising that the best parts of the game were the levels that ditched the stupid water gimmick, and went straight platforming.
I hated the FLUDD gimmick period. Hated cleaning off walls while fending off blob things in a zoomed in view. Just not my idea of a Mario game.
Not surprising that the best parts of the game were the levels that ditched the stupid water gimmick, and went straight platforming.
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
I absolutely loved it, possibly my favourite Mario after 64, certainly up there with the Galaxies for me. I don't expect for one minute others will agree with me.
I'd take another Sunshine style Mario over 3D World (which I really like but don't love), I think it is just as simple as there is stuff to do in the overworld and it is 'proper 3d' and not isometric. I was also a fan of FLUDD, it presented an interesting mechanic into the mix.
I'd take another Sunshine style Mario over 3D World (which I really like but don't love), I think it is just as simple as there is stuff to do in the overworld and it is 'proper 3d' and not isometric. I was also a fan of FLUDD, it presented an interesting mechanic into the mix.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Mario Sunshine is actually my favorite 3D Mario game. Otherwise, I'm a SMW/SMB3 guy.
No, it's good Mario game.
Not better than 64.
Too difficult in places.
All levels share the same theme (tropical island), not enough difference like 64/SM3DW.
There was some questionable stuff in there - "Always brush your teeth kids" & "Bowser Jr. deterred sex talk" IIRC.
Oh and use of water felt like a gimmick, and cleaning up paint got repetitive.
Not better than 64.
Too difficult in places.
All levels share the same theme (tropical island), not enough difference like 64/SM3DW.
There was some questionable stuff in there - "Always brush your teeth kids" & "Bowser Jr. deterred sex talk" IIRC.
Oh and use of water felt like a gimmick, and cleaning up paint got repetitive.
DistortionOfReality
Member
I really enjoyed it. Maybe I'm weird.
Also I think it gets hate for being one of the least liked Mario games. Which still puts it head and shoulders above a lot of other trash.
Also I think it gets hate for being one of the least liked Mario games. Which still puts it head and shoulders above a lot of other trash.
TheSlySoul
Member
Not really, I like it more than the original Galaxy. *puts up shield*
Nope its a really good Mario game just with some poor level design at times. Still has the best movement in 3d Mario imo.
Oh yeah and blue coins is so dumb, only reason I didn't 120 or 121 or w.e shines
Turbo fludd is also real fun. Also yeah one can say they enjoy Sunshine more but I'd hesitate calling it a better game. Don't even think it's better than 3d world.
Oh yeah and blue coins is so dumb, only reason I didn't 120 or 121 or w.e shines
Turbo fludd is also real fun. Also yeah one can say they enjoy Sunshine more but I'd hesitate calling it a better game. Don't even think it's better than 3d world.
GIANKRATOS
Member
Sunshine still has the best controls of any Mario game so if hate is the order of the day for it, I'd say no, it really doesn't deserve it.
Much like Sunshine, a piece of work that goes much too unappreciated.
Much like Sunshine, a piece of work that goes much too unappreciated.
TheMightyJerkules
Member
I think it's a fantastic game whose perception is hurt by the expectations set by its predecessor. I don't think it deserves the hate it gets, but being directly compared to one of the greatest games ever made (Mario 64), and some stellar entries that came later (Galaxy series) isn't doing it any favours. That being said, its best moments were the pure platforming sections where they deviated from the game's core mechanic and removed the FLUDD. I still enjoyed the game despite it's flaws.
Sunshine is actually my favorite Mario game ever. Also my first. Also I never knew people didn't like it until many years later. Kind of the same thing with Wind Waker. Never knew people thought it looked bad, so I just played it in ignorant bliss thinking it looked beautiful.
witchedwiz
Member
My thoughts exactly
I think it's pretty crap, but it's crap I'm nostalgic for. One of those games I choose not to replay because I just don't enjoy it but there are some nice memories there.
I wouldn't say it deserves hate though, because after it happened, Nintendo didn't continue with that kind of game and made the vastly superior Galaxy and 3D games. Sunshine merely exists, and I can't be mad about that.
I wouldn't say it deserves hate though, because after it happened, Nintendo didn't continue with that kind of game and made the vastly superior Galaxy and 3D games. Sunshine merely exists, and I can't be mad about that.
Neo-Saiyan
Member
I loved the hell out of Sunshine, for me the worse Mario game is New Super Mario Bros. U, Come at me!!
Windwaker and Sunshine both suffer from being rushed and as time goes on their flaws become more and more obvious, which hurts them as they end up falling flat to the games that came before them and after them.
They badly need a remake to redeem themselves.
Mario got it worse as Sunshine wasn't great and all the Mario games on the GBA were pretty much remakes of the Super Mario bros series.
Zelda at least got two new games on the GameCube and one original GBA title.
They badly need a remake to redeem themselves.
Mario got it worse as Sunshine wasn't great and all the Mario games on the GBA were pretty much remakes of the Super Mario bros series.
Zelda at least got two new games on the GameCube and one original GBA title.
Sapiens
Member
It's a great game, just not one I'm compelled to get all the Stars for. I think I dumped about 10-15 hours into it, which is fine, but usually I 100% EAD Mario mains. I mean, yeah, it's a failure - but had any other company other than Nintendo released it, it would be considered a classic today.
And it's not even the challenge that got me, it was just missing a certain polish.
And it's not even the challenge that got me, it was just missing a certain polish.
sixteen-bit
Member
It's such a chill game. I like the atmosphere.
It's kind of weird to look back on, actually. There's a Nintendo system that doesn't have an original Mario platformer, but two Metroids. Granted, Zero Mission is based on the original and there's no shortage of GBA Mario, but still.
DarknessTear
Banned
I loved it. Some aspects were a little bad, though. I hated the crappy opening that you couldn't skip. I found myself hype for the non FLUDD stages, too... So that was also probably a bad sign? The game had a great atmosphere. I loved going to that hotel place.
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