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[Icymanipulator]

I don't think this is actually true. I think Wii U proved that even big Nintendo fans aren't necessarily going to buy everything just because Nintendo makes it and puts their name on it. There weren't enough people who bought that console to sustain them as a company.

I feel like that was more a case of consumer confusion on what the Wii U was, a new console? An add on? Strange name, what is this thing?

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I feel like that was more a case of consumer confusion on what the Wii U was, a new console? An add on? Strange name, what is this thing?

But surely as an avid Nintendo fan who watches Directs or E3 press conferences, that sort of misunderstanding wouldn't apply. That was more for people walking by it in a store and wondering what it is. Like a "soccer mom looking to buy something new for their kid" but is uninformed on current console gaming.

 

[BlackTron]

Big Nintendo fans DID know what Wii U was, and many bought it. But big Nintendo fans who had no chance of being confused is a Dreamcast-sized market. Nintendo had such an assumption that anyone who cares couldn't be confused it's a new system, they forgot Wii was all about casuals who needed a simpler controller.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Big Nintendo fans DID know what Wii U was, and many bought it. But big Nintendo fans who had no chance of being confused is a Dreamcast-sized market. Nintendo had such an assumption that anyone who cares couldn't be confused it's a new system, they forgot Wii was all about casuals who needed a simpler controller.

Like Kimishima said, certain people at the top within Nintendo thought that because Wii did so well, they could replicate that with Wii U and achieve similar success. He didn't agree and said he thought Wii U would need to be different and not simply do the same thing again. But more than that, the Wii U concept came together around 2008, at a time when iPads and tablets were the latest trend, and everyone was buying one for themselves and for their kids. Nintendo saw that and thought, "How can we do something that uses a tablet interface, but apply it in a unique way and make it "Nintendo-like", and they came up with the GamePad idea. We saw how that worked out. By the time Wii U actually came to market, tablets and iPads were already onto their third generation and had become standardized and ubiquitous, and Nintendo completely missed the boat.

In other forums and years ago, I've often said that I think Wii U would have been at least a modest success and perhaps at least out-performed the GameCube had they just released the console by itself, bundled just with a Pro Controller, for $199, and only sold the GamePad seperately. But even then, they lacked a killer launch title to motivate people early on to buy the console. So without Smash or even Mario 3D World or Pikmin 3 being ready for holiday 2012, it never had a chance honestly. And once you've lost momentum, it is nearly impossible to get it back. The only other chance would've been delaying it to holiday 2013, and having Pikmin 3, 3D World & NSMBU all ready for Nov/Dec back-to-back-to-back. Because 2014 was the Wii U's best year of first-party output, but the console had already died commercially as of the year before. So there was nothing else they could do to bring it back to life.

 

[BlackTron]

Like Kimishima said, certain people at the top within Nintendo thought that because Wii did so well, they could replicate that with Wii U and achieve similar success. He didn't agree and said he thought Wii U would need to be different and not simply do the same thing again. But more than that, the Wii U concept came together around 2008, at a time when iPads and tablets were the latest trend, and everyone was buying one for themselves and for their kids. Nintendo saw that and thought, "How can we do something that uses a tablet interface, but apply it in a unique way and make it "Nintendo-like", and they came up with the GamePad idea. We saw how that worked out. By the time Wii U actually came to market, tablets and iPads were onto their third generation and had become standardized and ubiquitous, and Nintendo completely missed the boat.

In other forums and years ago, I've often said that I think Wii U would have been at least a modest success and perhaps at least out-performed the GameCube had they just released the console by itself, bundled just with a Pro Controller, for $199, and only sold the GamePad seperately. But even then, they lacked a killer launch title to motivate people early on to buy the console. So without Smash or even Mario 3D World or Pikmin 3 being ready for holiday 2012, it never had a chance honestly. And once you've lost momentum, it is nearly impossible to get it back. The only other chance would've been delaying it to holiday 2013, and having Pikmin 3, 3D World & NSMBU all ready for Nov/Dec back-to-back-to-back. Because 2014 was the Wii U's best year of first-party output, but the console had already died commercially as of the year before. So there was nothing else they could do to bring it back to life.

IMO if the Gamepad was not packed-in they should have just forgotten about it. Who wants to make a game that requires a $100 accessory? BOTW would have been like the Switch version even if Gamepad existed. This is 32x stuff.

A better design, name and launch title would have made it. Perhaps a different gimmick that didn't make you keep looking up and down at different screens. That was the most damning part, a 3DS for your TV is cool in theory but bad in-gameplay because on 3DS you don't have to keep switching your gaze.

I think had everything else been better, it could have included Gamepad tho at $300 and gotten away with it. Part of that is a better designed non-fisher price shell for it.

 

[Shut0wen]

It's crazy to me that Forever Entertainment landed this contract. Judging by the number of issues and graphical downgrades people found in the trailer vs the Wii version, they better start crunching.

I thought forever entertainment was a publisher?

 

[Shifty1897]

I thought forever entertainment was a publisher?

Yes, but they've also dev'd some remakes, like Front Mission 1 and 2, and the Panzer Dragoon Remake.

 

[Filben]

Of course it's 60 bucks.

 

[Icymanipulator]

But surely as an avid Nintendo fan who watches Directs or E3 press conferences, that sort of misunderstanding wouldn't apply. That was more for people walking by it in a store and wondering what it is. Like a "soccer mom looking to buy something new for their kid" but is uninformed on current console gaming.

There are various reasons for the lack of successs for the Wii U, but if yourtarguing that Nintendo fans - generally - don’t eat up whatever Nintendo serves them, I think you’re mistaken.

This isn’t the first over priced re release, and it won’t be the last.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

There are various reasons for the lack of successs for the Wii U, but if yourtarguing that Nintendo fans - generally - don’t eat up whatever Nintendo serves them, I think you’re mistaken.

This isn’t the first over priced re release, and it won’t be the last.

My point very clearly is that even if this is true, there *aren't enough of them* to sustain Nintendo's business alone. You might want to go back and read original posts and replies for context so we're not arguing about something that no one was even saying in the first place.

I'm well aware of, and have spoken about in this thread, the various reasons Wii U was significantly less commercially successful than even the GameCube.

To my knowledge no one has argued nor thinks that certain Nintendo releases are overpriced now or haven't been in the past.

 

[Little Mac]

Nintendo gonna Nintendo. Regardless, I’m excited for what the Switch 2 ends up being and the launch titles that show off its capabilities …

 

[Dacvak]

$60 is so annoying. I bought tropical freeze for $60 on the Wii U, and it took like 4 years after its Switch release for me to get it at the “discounted” price of $40.

I want to have DKCR in my digital Switch library (assuming the Switch 2 has digital BC), but not for $60. Damn Nintendo. You greedy af sometimes.

 

[tr1p1ex]

IMO if the Gamepad was not packed-in they should have just forgotten about it. Who wants to make a game that requires a $100 accessory? BOTW would have been like the Switch version even if Gamepad existed. This is 32x stuff.

A better design, name and launch title would have made it. Perhaps a different gimmick that didn't make you keep looking up and down at different screens. That was the most damning part, a 3DS for your TV is cool in theory but bad in-gameplay because on 3DS you don't have to keep switching your gaze.

I think had everything else been better, it could have included Gamepad tho at $300 and gotten away with it. Part of that is a better designed non-fisher price shell for it.

IT was weird that they wanted the customer to buy a console with a tethered handheld that added $100 to the cost as well as buy a handheld that ran a completely different set of games. That was the message.

And yep the lesson learned with dual screens was you can only look at one screen at a time. And to switch your view between the two frequently is somewhat jarring.

In the end, they weren't able to do much with it. Nintendoland was fun and used it. zombiU made you look at it when going thru your backpack while the game didn't pause. Splatoon had the map on it, let you touch where you wanted to jump too and, best of all let you play mini-games in between rounds on the handheld. BotW was going to do the inventory on it and that probably would have been pretty killer.

But that was about it. Although ok Mario Maker used it pretty well for creating. And there were some touchscreen only games.

I thought it would cool feature for a kid to play while the parent was on the tv but that never really panned out. The kid probalby had a 3ds or smartphone. The family at least in the US had multiple tvs.

 

[Icymanipulator]

My point very clearly is that even if this is true, there *aren't enough of them* to sustain Nintendo's business alone. You might want to go back and read original posts and replies for context so we're not arguing about something that no one was even saying in the first place.

I'm well aware of, and have spoken about in this thread, the various reasons Wii U was significantly less commercially successful than even the GameCube.

To my knowledge no one has argued nor thinks that certain Nintendo releases are overpriced now or haven't been in the past.

I’m not interested in the entire conversation, I just came to acknowledge that Nintendo fans tend to be willing to pay top dollar for re releases. This is why Nintendo can continue to charge outrageous prices for cheap remasters. People buy them. They are the very people that are Nintendos bread and butter, the die hard fans that will purchase almost anything, in droves.

 

[Korranator]

I'll just emulate my 3DS version on my PC

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I’m not interested in the entire conversation, I just came to acknowledge that Nintendo fans tend to be willing to pay top dollar for re releases. This is why Nintendo can continue to charge outrageous prices for cheap remasters. People buy them. They are the very people that are Nintendos bread and butter, the die hard fans that will purchase almost anything, in droves.

Ok. So Thank you for using replies to me as a way to regurgitate what I and many others have already said.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Well, at least it isn’t $70…..

At least not yet.

Switch 2 games will be $70. I wouldn’t really be surprised if they even get up to $80 for certain titles.

 

[hemo memo]

Expected sadly.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Well, at least it isn’t $70…..

At least not yet.

Switch 2 games will be $70. I wouldn’t really be surprised if they even get up to $80 for certain titles.

Yeah sure. They’ll go to $80.

Meanwhile they’ve literally released *one* game ever so far at $70 and all other games are $50-60.

So yes next gen just like PS and Xbox have been doing for four years now their big games will likely begin to launch at $70 on Switch 2. But $80? Come on. You know that’s not a serious comment.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Of course it's 60 bucks.

Why is this of course? They routinely launch games at $50 even brand new ones. This is a port of a game that’s already been rereleased on another platform more than a decade ago. $60 for this release is ridiculous and not the norm for them. It’s a new level of ridiculousness.

Metroid Prime Remastered was $40 and was a full graphical redo and had more more work done to update it.

Mario vs Donkey Kong a brand new game just this past February launched at $50

This, though? A Wii game ported to 3DS now ported to Switch with minimal changes and no visual upgrades? For $60? A new low for Nintendo

 

[bender]

I would be surprised if Switch 2 games launched at $8,000 dollars.

 

[K' Dash]

Vote with your wallet people.

I played on Wii and 3DS. I got my fix.

 

[TheGodfather07]

It's not the launch price but the fact that Nintendo never reduce prices that pisses me off. They only do temporary sales. They got years old games that don't really sell anymore but Nintendo still won't cut the price. They would rather milk as much profit from the few copies that still sell. Does anybody else in the entire industry do this? You can get games half price a year after launch for most other games.

 

[Gamer79]

I already own the switch version and do not see this minor upgrade worth it.

 

[TheGodfather07]

I already own the switch version and do not see this minor upgrade worth it.

Switch version?

 

[Icymanipulator]

Ok. So Thank you for using replies to me as a way to regurgitate what I and many others have already said.

Did you have a bad day? I’m sorry. I hope you have a good weekend.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Yeah sure. They’ll go to $80.

Meanwhile they’ve literally released *one* game ever so far at $70 and all other games are $50-60.

So yes next gen just like PS and Xbox have been doing for four years now their big games will likely begin to launch at $70 on Switch 2. But $80? Come on. You know that’s not a serious comment.

I was mostly exaggerating, but with the direction gaming is going, you never know. No one saw Switch games(MK1 and Zelda) going to $70 either, but it happened. I can definitely see the next generation console games going up to $80 and beyond and since Switch 2 will probably be in that generation as well, imho there’s a chance they could join in also.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

"I'M ALL BEAT DAT PUSSY UP, LIME BAAAAM, BAAAAAM, BAAAAAM..."

-Nintendo's pricing strategy.

 

[Stratostar]

It's not the launch price but the fact that Nintendo never reduce prices that pisses me off. They only do temporary sales. They got years old games that don't really sell anymore but Nintendo still won't cut the price. They would rather milk as much profit from the few copies that still sell. Does anybody else in the entire industry do this? You can get games half price a year after launch for most other games.

They used to, with their now-defunct Nintendo Selects line. The year before the Switch launched, several first-party Wii U games were re-released at retail for a cool $19.99, including Tropical Freeze, Mario 3D World, and Wind Waker HD.

To think, Tropical Freeze launched on Wii U at $49.99, and was officially discounted by over 50% 2 years after release.

Gone are those days, that's for sure.

For all the shit we gave them during the Wii U days under Iwata, they were not yet half the shameless, miserly entity known as Switch-era Nintendo.

 

[Filben]

Why is this of course?

Because they always overcharge (in my opinion) for their ports and remasters. I'm not counting a few bucks here and if it's 50 or 60. It doesn't matter that much at this point. It's either way way too much.

 

[Goalus]

Lol. Fuck Nintendo and their prices.

Not sure if it's OK to make fun of Miyamoto like that.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Not sure if it's OK to make fun of Miyamoto like that.

Imagine if kids of today start thinking like that for Tim Sweeney.

 

[Neff]

You'll pay it so you don't have to use waggle and they know it

 

[Woopah]

Not that I'd buy it anyway, but this pricing is ridiculous.

EPD8 had better be sitting on a new DK. They've been working on a 2D game for years.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I was mostly exaggerating, but with the direction gaming is going, you never know. No one saw Switch games(MK1 and Zelda) going to $70 either, but it happened. I can definitely see the next generation console games going up to $80 and beyond and since Switch 2 will probably be in that generation as well, imho there’s a chance they could join in also.

No, you definitely know.

 

[Zimmy68]

Remember when first party Nintendo games were $10 cheaper?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.

I have to applaud Nintendo, why lose all the mountains of money from their sheep by releasing the Switch 2, too early?

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Did you have a bad day? I’m sorry. I hope you have a good weekend.

No, I just don’t understand why I had to be the post that kept being tagged for you to regurgitate what other people have already said, as if you are arguing with me even tho you weren’t.

Like for real just hit Reply general and do your own post with your own thoughts like everyone else.

You weren’t even responding directly to me yet you were tagging me. It was strange

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Remember when first party Nintendo games were $10 cheaper?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.

I have to applaud Nintendo, why lose all the mountains of money from their sheep by releasing the Switch 2, too early?

This was only true during the Wii generation. And mostly because Nintendo wasn’t yet making high definition games. And so their development cost were incredibly low compared to the competition.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Not that I'd buy it anyway, but this pricing is ridiculous.

EPD8 had better be sitting on a new DK. They've been working on a 2D game for years.

We don’t actually know this it’s just speculation

 

[Woopah]

We don’t actually know this it’s just speculation

We did see Nintendo advertise jobs for 2D level designers based in Tokyo.

 

[Woopah]

Eat it up Nintendo boys Lol
The people who buy these kinds of re-releases at these prices are exactly Nintendos bread and butter.

I don't think this is actually true. I think Wii U proved that even big Nintendo fans aren't necessarily going to buy everything just because Nintendo makes it and puts their name on it. There weren't enough people who bought that console to sustain them as a company.

There may very well be some fans who buy anything that us Nintendo branded, but they number in the 100,000s at best (and I really don't think it's that high).

Vast majority of people only buy the games they are actually interested in.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

There may very well be some fans who buy anything that us Nintendo branded, but they number in the 100,000s at best (and I really don't think it's that high).

Vast majority of people only buy the games they are actually interested in.

I completely agree. I bought a voucher for Luigi’s Mansion 2 and Mario & Luigi but I certainly am not spending a penny on DKCR HD even if it’s lowered to $50 or $40. Not only because it’s a port of a rerelease of a Wii game. But also because I just don’t think it’s that great. I played and enjoyed the original on Wii for $50. It was fine. I’d never spend money on that game again.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

We did see Nintendo advertise jobs for 2D level designers based in Tokyo.

That’s fine. There are other Nintendo developers in Tokyo, though. It’s difficult to really wring newsworthy information out of boilerplate job postings, imho.

 

[SmokedMeat]

This has been Nintendo’s schtick for ages. Can’t imagine them leaving that easy money behind and implementing BC in Switch 2.

 

[Woopah]

That’s fine. There are other Nintendo developers in Tokyo, though. It’s difficult to really wring newsworthy information out of boilerplate job postings, imho.

Which other softwate developer owned by Nintendo is in Tokyo? The only one I can think of is 1-Up Studio, and their primairy role is supporting EPD8. They don't create their own games.

Edit: Ah yes as nial points out, NDCube and MonolithSoft are there too.

 

[nial]

Not that I'd buy it anyway, but this pricing is ridiculous.

EPD8 had better be sitting on a new DK. They've been working on a 2D game for years.

Wasn't that just Zippo bullshitting? I remember him saying that it wasn't even made by Production Group No. 8, but rather, a new one under EPD Tokyo Department that was focusing on Donkey Kong games.
I believe he also claimed that Princess Peach Showtime! was being developed internally at NCL, and that was obviously not true.

 

[nial]

That’s fine. There are other Nintendo developers in Tokyo, though. It’s difficult to really wring newsworthy information out of boilerplate job postings, imho.

I really doubt Monolith Soft or NDCube are making anything 2D related, while EPD Tokyo staff has made 2D games in the past (Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat).

 

[Woopah]

Wasn't that just Zippo bullshitting? I remember him saying that it wasn't even made by Production Group No. 8, but rather, a new one under EPD Tokyo Department that was focusing on Donkey Kong games.
I believe he also claimed that Princess Peach Showtime! was being developed internally at NCL, and that was obviously not true.

It originally came from DK Vine, and then other people said they heard something similar.

EPD8 and EPD Tokyo are the same thing, and yes if I remember correctly it was supposed to be a new, younger team there.

All we know for sure is that Nintendo were hiring people in Tokyo for a 2D platformer and for a 3D platformer.

EPD8 working on two games might be why we haven't heard of them in so long. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo has already finished the next 3D Mario, and is just waiting on Switch 2 to launch it.

 

[nial]

It originally came from DK Vine, and then other people said they heard something similar.

DK Vine? Huh, I didn't remember that.

EPD8 and EPD Tokyo are the same thing, and yes if I remember correctly it was supposed to be a new, younger team there.

Technically, they're only the same thing due to EPD8 being the only production group at their Tokyo department; Nintendo could establish an EPD11 over then, and it would still be EPD Tokyo. EAD Tokyo previously had two development groups (and one was created much later).

All we know for sure is that Nintendo were hiring people in Tokyo for a 2D platformer and for a 3D platformer.

Had no idea! Considering their history with DK, and the fact that the Kyoto people make the 2D Mario titles, it surely cannot be anything other than a new Donkey Kong game (aside from a new IP, but eh, less likely).
Insane that EPD Tokyo hasn't fully released any project since 2017, but I do attribute that to Nintendo not letting them.

 

[Evil Calvin]

It didn't bomb, it's 1+ million already. But agreed, $40 seems appropriate, and still make a tidy profit.

I get that 1 million selling isn't 'bad' but when the user base is 150 million.....I would think that a Mario game (and Donkey Kong) selling to less than 1% of your user base has to be disappointing.