Donkey Kong Country Returns |OT| Retro Studios Has Done It Again!

rpmurphy said:
It's not just about the linearity. When platformers are made built specifically on what expert jumps, timed jumps, walljumps, etc. that the designer wants the player to make to complete the level, it takes away exploration, creative and variety gameplay. It's the reason why although I like SMG, I also like SM64 more in ways. It's the reason why I like Spelunky's random generation, because I never know what to expect.
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This'll be my last SMB post 'cause it's off topic, but I had to respond to this.

There are tons of ways to complete most SMB levels. That's some of what makes it so amazing - the realization that if you had approached this or that part of a level a different way, you could have shaved seconds off your time. "Non-Linearity" isn't defined strictly as a level with branching paths or something. I can't tell you the number of times I beat a level in Super Meat Boy, went back in to make a top time on the leaderboard, and realized I was playing the level the wrong fucking way, literally forming an entirely new strategy that changed the way I had to work the obstacles entirely.

For example, in one level you're riding an platform the entire way, jumping over spikes and other such things to get to the bandage princess. Later, for best times, if you ride the platform you wonder why the hell you can't match the top times. It's impossible! But after just a little observation, you realize you can go through the tunnel the elevator is passing through... it's a tight passage and jumping out of each part requires amazingly precise and well-timed button presses, but doing it is like playing a different level.

Back on Topic...

Anyway, this "DKCR is super difficult" talk is the first time my curiosity has been moved. I never liked the Donkey Kong Country series, and I never considered any of them difficult. But I do like difficult platforming...
 
Amir0x said:
Anyway, this "DKCR is super difficult" talk is the first time my curiosity has been moved. I never liked the Donkey Kong Country series, and I never considered any of them difficult. But I do like difficult platforming...
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I know it's mostly a different team, and I might be riding a high from last night's awesome episode of Sym-Bionic Titan, but after playing through Metroid Prime again, I have a newfound respect for Retro as far as puzzle design goes. MP's puzzles aren't particularly difficult for the most part, but the optional ones, and the later-game ones require precision and that you think. Considering platformers are nothing but a series of short puzzles/challenges one after another, I think this has a chance at being pretty good.

Now, it's not going to be SMB-hard, because bite-sized seconds-long levels was the point of SMB, but I do expect a decent challenge.

And if they fail I will hate them so much.
 
Ugh, all this talk of being "one of the most difficult platformers" is a little intimidating. I plan on getting the game still and enjoying it for what it is, but I know with some certainty that I won't 100% it due to how difficult it sounds.
 
Hobbun said:
Ugh, all this talk of being "one of the most difficult platformers" is a little intimidating. I plan on getting the game still and enjoying it for what it is, but I know with some certainty that I won't 100% it due to how difficult it sounds.
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weekend confirms brian said that it was much easier then the SNES DKC

(he also said that the SNES DKCs are way superior)
 
I love how half of the reviewers say "this is the most unforgivably hard platformers ever!" and the other half say "It's a fucking cakewalk, way easier than the SNES ones." What in gods name could be the reason for that?
 
DaBuddaDa said:
I love how half of the reviewers say "this is the most unforgivably hard platformers ever!" and the other half say "It's a fucking cakewalk, way easier than the SNES ones." What in gods name could be the reason for that?
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Other polarizing comments I've read about DKCR:
-good, great multiplayer vs throwaway mutiplayer
- wiimote + nunchuk is the only good way vs wiimote only is only good way
- Cool challenging bosses vs repetitive bosses


Very confusing.
 
What it indicates to me is, this style of game is so rare nowadays that reviewers no longer have a stream of benchmarks to work off of that are fresh in their memories, so the results are all over the place, aka, meaningless and uselessly subjective.
 
ryan-ts said:
Other polarizing comments I've read about DKCR:
-good, great multiplayer vs throwaway mutiplayer
- wiimote + nunchuk is the only good way vs wiimote only is only good way
- Cool challenging bosses vs repetitive bosses


Very confusing.
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Well, at least two of those three I can see a lot of differing opinions as people just have difference preferences.

Like the second one, especially, how to play the game. I am leaning more towards using the Wii remote turned sideways, but after hearing you still need to shake the controller to spin, I may not do that. (I was hoping you could hit a button if you decided to turn it sideways).

But wiith difficulty, even though that is subjective as well, I would agree you would think the opinions would be more along the same level. I mean someone may feel it is 'easier' than another person, but you would think the reviewers would be able to say "I found it not too diffcult, but I enjoy hard games and compared to many other platformers, DKCR is a very challenging game."

Then you would have a greater understanding that it is a very hard game across the board.
 
Is it possible to hack Classic Controller support into the game? I know that there is a way to play TP without the need to shake the Wiimote, but I don't know whether it's possible to add support for an additional controller that isn't natively supported by the game.
 
Hobbun said:
Ugh, all this talk of being "one of the most difficult platformers" is a little intimidating. I plan on getting the game still and enjoying it for what it is, but I know with some certainty that I won't 100% it due to how difficult it sounds.
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One man's meat is another man's poison.

There will never be a game without difficulty settings hitting that perfect sweet spot for all the people playing it, it's just not possible.
 
DaBuddaDa said:
What it indicates to me is, this style of game is so rare nowadays that reviewers no longer have a stream of benchmarks to work off of that are fresh in their memories, so the results are all over the place, aka, meaningless and uselessly subjective.
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In other words, most reviewers suck.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
Well of course it is. Would be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything. ;)
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ah, speak for yerself. World would be much better if everyone agreed with me


It just stinks that I'm getting Goldeneye and Donkey the same day. I might very well ditch Danny and play Donkey first since platforms are, like, the best genre ever to me
 
darkpaladinmfc said:
In other words, most reviewers suck.
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I wouldn't be that unnecessarily mean, but judging by the massive discrepancies found in many review texts, I think it's safe to say that most current day reviewers are incapable of providing an accurate review of this game, as most subconsciously are comparing it to games they haven't played in well over a decade.
 
Haunted said:
One man's meat is another man's poison.

There will never be a game without difficulty settings hitting that perfect sweet spot for all the people playing it, it's just not possible.
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Yes, I'm aware of that. I was only just speaking for myself, which truly, is all I can ever do.

I wasn't bashing the game by any means because it is more difficult. As I said, I will enjoy it for what it is, I just am pretty certain I won't 100%.
 
Neiteio said:
I wonder if this game will become for GAF the Demon's Souls of platformers. :)
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lol doubt it. it probably won't be close to the greatness of demon's souls. :(

i really don't like DKC, but the girlfriend really wants to get this. i'll probably pick it up tuesday as i have too much homework to deal with and really don't need the distractions. :lol
 
I think Nintendo's new strategy with difficulty is a pretty good one. The game starts easy and ramps up. You can use Super Guide to bypass areas that you just can't do so any player can at least experience all the primary content. 100% is reserved for players who have a particular skill and stick with it.
 
Hobbun said:
Yes, I'm aware of that. I was only just speaking for myself, which truly, is all I can ever do.

I wasn't bashing the game by any means because it is more difficult. As I said, I will enjoy it for what it is, I just am pretty certain I won't 100%.
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Oh yes, absolutely. I wasn't trying to defend the game from a perceived attack or anything, just making an observation on the topic in general. :)

I personally think introducing difficulty settings changing some of the variables would be a really easy and acceptable fix for many games suffering from this dilemma.


The Super Guide is a pretty interesting proposition as well. I had it pop up once in NSMBWii, but never used it.
 
Just picked it up at my local Mom 'n Pop and played through the first level. I'm...not used to the controls yet, but I liked what I saw. I'll play more later after work.
 
Tomorrow will be glorious. I am so ready for a crazy intense platforming challenge (as I'm going to try and force myself to 100% this)

In fact, I'm on Thanksgiving break now until next Monday. I don't bring my Wii to school, so that gives me a week to attempt to unlock everything

If not I'll try and finish it up over Christmas break

Either way, I'm anticipating this being my best gaming experience of the entire year. As amazing of a time as I had with Galaxy 2 and Red Dead Redemption, this game looks like it will trip all of my nostalgia sensors while simultaneously overloading me with insanely creative and fresh platforming goodness

My last challenge is making it through my 11 hour work day today before heading to Walmart at midnight!
 
Somnid said:
I think Nintendo's new strategy with difficulty is a pretty good one. The game starts easy and ramps up. You can use Super Guide to bypass areas that you just can't do so any player can at least experience all the primary content. 100% is reserved for players who have a particular skill and stick with it.
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yup. they no longer have to be afraid of new or less intense gamers getting frustrated and stuck in a particular section and not experiencing the entire game.

probably the only reason why nsmbw was not a complete cakewalk like nsmb
 
El Pescado said:
Just picked it up at my local Mom 'n Pop and played through the first level. I'm...not used to the controls yet, but I liked what I saw. I'll play more later after work.
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See, I am not trying to get a discussion/argument about controls again, but this worries me a bit and it's not the first time I've seen this mentioned. I didn't want to have to 'get used to' the controls again. Just wanted to pick up and play, which is why I wanted to have the option of the older controls, like the classic controller.

Oh well, still looking forward to the game and will be playing tomorrow!
 
Hobbun said:
See, I am not trying to get a discussion/argument about controls again, but this worries me a bit and it's not the first time I've seen this mentioned. I didn't want to have to 'get used to' the controls again. Just wanted to pick up and play, which is why I wanted to have the option of the older controls, like the classic controller.

Oh well, still looking forward to the game and will be playing tomorrow!
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Yeah, the GameTrailers review said shaking to roll isn't good for precision platforming, which means this game commits the cardinal sin in Nintendo games of having less-than-perfect controls. It seems they should've included a Classic Controller option, but here's hoping it's just one blemish on an otherwise immaculate game. I've been waiting for this since DKC3 (which was second only to DKC2). :)
 
It seems like shake to roll was a bad idea while the other shake functions are fine.

Shame, but it seems you do get used to it, though the time until you do is probably annoying.

I guess shake to roll was necessary for the sideways wiimote scheme, which is one of the problems when your big holiday game is ideally for nunchuck/wiimote combinations. You can't hope everyone has two nunchucks, so you have to build around it.

Sigh, Nintendo. Sigh.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
It seems like shake to roll was a bad idea while the other shake functions are fine.

Shame, but it seems you do get used to it, though the time until you do is probably annoying.

I guess shake to roll was necessary for the sideways wiimote scheme, which is one of the problems when your big holiday game is ideally for nunchuck/wiimote combinations. You can't hope everyone has two nunchucks, so you have to build around it.

Sigh, Nintendo. Sigh.
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Actually, it sounds like the sideways Wiimote is best for shaking to roll, since part of the problem is if the analog stick is not fully deployed to the right, it'll confuse the shake for blowing. So if you're slightly at an angle, the shake will register as the incorrect action. They should've included a Classic Controller option, as many reviews have noted.
 
I hate this thread (/my lack of restraint)! The game comes out tomorrow and I can't help but click every link I see :( . This game looks amazing.
 
Hobbun said:
See, I am not trying to get a discussion/argument about controls again, but this worries me a bit and it's not the first time I've seen this mentioned. I didn't want to have to 'get used to' the controls again. Just wanted to pick up and play, which is why I wanted to have the option of the older controls, like the classic controller.

Oh well, still looking forward to the game and will be playing tomorrow!
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I won't say adding Classic Controller support would have been a bad idea, but I think the Wiimote only controls are fine. Keep in mind I only played it for approximately 5 minutes and I haven't played a DKC title since DKC2 on SNES.
 
Does anyone else find holding the Wiimote sideways for intense platformers a little awkward? Maybe I'll get used to it. But for that reason I'm considering trying out the Wiimote/Nunchuck scheme.
 
Socreges said:
Does anyone else find holding the Wiimote sideways for intense platformers a little awkward? Maybe I'll get used to it. But for that reason I'm considering trying out the Wiimote/Nunchuck scheme.
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I put my Wiimote in the official Mario Kart Wii wheel and it makes holding it feel much better.
 
Socreges said:
Does anyone else find holding the Wiimote sideways for intense platformers a little awkward? Maybe I'll get used to it. But for that reason I'm considering trying out the Wiimote/Nunchuck scheme.
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Must be a mental barrier. Feels fine to me; like an NES controller with smoother edges.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
It seems like shake to roll was a bad idea while the other shake functions are fine.

Shame, but it seems you do get used to it, though the time until you do is probably annoying.

I guess shake to roll was necessary for the sideways wiimote scheme, which is one of the problems when your big holiday game is ideally for nunchuck/wiimote combinations. You can't hope everyone has two nunchucks, so you have to build around it.

Sigh, Nintendo. Sigh.
Click to expand...
Nunchuk is easily the best method of playing the game. It takes just a couple of minutes to get used to shaking however, unlike most videos of people playing you only need to make very small movements with your wrists (or forearms) to trigger the roll/blow/ground pound. For the continuous roll with diddy you need to make even less of a movement after the initial ground pound. I actually find it a bit easier to do roll jumps in that I don't need to press two buttons at once (no need to hold the run/roll button down constantly as in the previous DKCs). Also, the deadzone for starting a roll on the analog stick is quite substantial and a roll detection error is very very very rare, unless you pick your nose while playing the game.

I've had no problems with the nunchuk-wiimote controller scheme and after a couple of attempts have been able to easily obtain gold medals on all of the levels in the first world by a sizable amount.

In summary, highly recommend playing with nunchuk control scheme as it become second nature quickly.
 
Balb said:
Must be a mental barrier. Feels fine to me; like an NES controller with smoother edges.
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And smaller, shittier buttons and d-pad.

I'm either using my SNES Wii controller through Dolphin, or using Wiimote/Nunchuck. Shaking the Wiimote with one hand is a lot more comfortable then with two hands when holding it sideways, IMO.
 
Lathentar said:
Nunchuk is easily the best method of playing the game. It takes just a couple of minutes to get used to shaking however, unlike most videos of people playing you only need to make very small movements with your wrists to get trigger the roll/blow/ground pound. For the continuous roll with diddy you need to make even less of a movement. I actually find it a bit easier to do roll jumps in that I don't need to press two buttons at once. Also, the deadzone for starting a roll on the analog stick is quite substantial and a roll detection error is very very very rare, unless you pick your nose while playing the game.

I've had no problems with the nunchuk-wiimote controller scheme and after a couple of attempts have been able to easily obtain gold medals on all of the levels in the first world by a sizable amount.

In summary, highly recommend playing with nunchuk control scheme as it become second nature quickly.
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Shit, I'm fucking screwed.

Thanks, good to hear this.
 
TheExodu5 said:
And smaller, shittier buttons and d-pad.

I'm either using my SNES Wii controller through Dolphin, or using Wiimote/Nunchuck. Shaking the Wiimote with one hand is a lot more comfortable then with two hands when holding it sideways, IMO.
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I agree with this man.
 
And talking about the shake for the roll, does it feel right like the spin for Mario in NSMBW?

As I see some videos, I'm happy to see that like Metroid prime and all its rooms designed uniquely, a same level as different designed portions and not just some tweaks.
 
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