analog_future
Resident Crybaby
I stole this from reddit but it highlights very effectively how stupid people sound with these new RTX 5000 cards
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Don't buy the GeForce 3 marketing!! Nvidia is selling you FAKE TRIANGLES.
- Thread starter analog_future
- Start date
Knightime_X
Member
Is it fake, though?
AI is just a smarter calculator.
AI already knows the answer (because its pre-calculated) and all it needs to do is enhance the work already done the hard way, giving raster calculations more time to breathe.
"Fake frames" are just as real as calculated, only produced at a much faster rate.
Eventually, AI cards are the future, and with luck, make gpus considerably cheaper.
AI is just a smarter calculator.
AI already knows the answer (because its pre-calculated) and all it needs to do is enhance the work already done the hard way, giving raster calculations more time to breathe.
"Fake frames" are just as real as calculated, only produced at a much faster rate.
Eventually, AI cards are the future, and with luck, make gpus considerably cheaper.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Gold Member
4000 cards?
I stole this from reddit but it highlights very effectively how stupid people sound with these new RTX 4000 cards
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
S0ULZB0URNE
Gold Member
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Z-Culling is BS, I demand triangles behind the wall.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
The funny thing about this comment is tech like Reflex didn't exist back in the Geforce 3 days and latency was higher back then than DLSS+FG+Reflex is today.
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Walter Matthau
Member
Joke is a little over my head since I don't follow the GPU scene. Is this in response to those dismissing frame generation?
"Fake frames" come at the cost of increased latency and motion related artifacts though.
Discussing if they are to be considered real or fake would just be a philosophical effort if they were totally equivalent for the end user but they're not.
Personally I support the benefits AI is bringing and the net compromise is absolutely positive for me but it's important there is clarity.
These tools are not magic and shouldn't be used by manufacturers to mud waters about the performance of the hardware they're selling.
The funny thing about this picture is that it's misleading. Because it combines upscalling which gives better perf with frame gen. But even in this picture we can see how much lag FG introduces if it needs three times the framerate to have same latency as Native (112 fps vs 42 fps).The funny thing about this comment is tech like Reflex didn't exist back in the Geforce 3 days and latency was higher back then than DLSS+FG+Reflex is today.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It has nearly half the latency as native (62.6ms vs 101.5ms).
The better comparison would be to say that DLSS Quality + FG adds 15.2ms of latency over DLSS Quality without FG.
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Thanks to FG? No, thanks to Reflex, so what are you talking about?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Framgen is something completely different. They are showing games running at 22 fps being boosted by framegen.
DF literally took a shit on Black Myth Wukong's PS5 performance mode because they used framegen to go from 30 to 60.
DF literally took a shit on Black Myth Wukong's PS5 performance mode because they used framegen to go from 30 to 60.
LordOfChaos
Member
Too late 
It's crazy how dinky and little the fans and heatsinks were back then and how much power use has blown up
It's crazy how dinky and little the fans and heatsinks were back then and how much power use has blown up
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Well are we talking native or not? Or are we picking and choosing what technologies on top of "native" count towards our final calculations?
Again, Reflex was not something that existed in the Geforce 3 days.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Frame gen isn't boosting any games running at 22fps. DLSS is bringing the framerate & input latency up to an acceptable level, and then frame gen takes it from there. Not the same.
Before reflex people ran a fps cap to reduce latency since PC games were just bad at balancing CPU and GPU demand. However I'd still take no framegen with reflex than reflex with framegen, especially no multiframegen. And to think some were complaining about Killzone Shadowfall targeting 60fps on a PS4 using 'fake pixels' and starting up lawsuits.The funny thing about this comment is tech like Reflex didn't exist back in the Geforce 3 days and latency was higher back then than DLSS+FG+Reflex is today.
But your whole point is to praise FG. Reflex is not part of it. I can use it without any DLSS.
So apples to apples comparision would be to have Reflex always on and then on top of that compare DLSS, FG, native...
In my original post I said that FG introduces lag, and your screen confirms that, because every bar with FG on has higher latency than same setting without FG. Which actually confirms what I wrote.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
My whole point is people are bitching about the latency that FG adds while ignoring the fact that we all played with similar latency before Reflex existed and no one had a problem with it.
Don't forget about rendering artifacts, it's not only lag.
We all played OoT at 15fps too. Just look at people bitching about 30fps today and its latency (usually just 16ms more). Multiframegen adds more than 16ms even. It's going to be the same sort of complaints about 30fps vs 60fps. Some don't like the increased latency.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
DLSS cannot take a 22 fps game and get it to 60+ fps unless you go native to DLSS ultra performance which is 720p.
Their own examples showed Cyberpunk PT running at 22 fps without DLSS at native 4k. DLSS Quality does not double performance. Balanced might get you 44 fps. Performance might get you to 50 fps. Then framegen takes over. Still lower than the 60 fps Nvidia, AMD and DF recommend for framegen.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
its not latency. I see ghosting and TV quality motion interpolation effects. its so obvious they are fake frames that my mind rejects it.
loktaiextatus
Member
Or like the 500 series which were just 400 series with some of the power management improvements that some non-reference 400 cards ALREADY had or had an even better version of, basically re-selling a generation to people (ala gamecube and Wii)
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Corporal.Hicks
Member
In heavy RT games, DLSSQ can indeed double the frame rate. I saw this happen several times on my RTX4080. In raster games, however, DLSSQ does not improve the fps that much.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why are more people acting as if 60 fps isn't good enough nowadays? I've seen people say 120 fps or bust.
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
The only Triangles you should trust
UniformDeliverance
Member
10/10 post, thanks for the laugh OP
Corporal.Hicks
Member
The Geforce 3 was a revolutionary GPU thanks to shaders, and it also powered the very first Xbox console. I will never forget how blown away I was when I first saw 3Dmark in 2001, especially the "nature" test. Gaming performance was also amazing, my previous geforce 2 MX 32MB had somewhere around 15fps in quake 3 at 1600x1200x32, while my Geforce3 128MB around 80fps, 5x incrase. Good times.Too late
It's crazy how dinky and little the fans and heatsinks were back then and how much power use has blown up
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
If it's over 60 fps, then fine. But even then, i am comparing it to what im running with dlss quality right now. Its not like i am upgrading from an AMD GPU. If Heavy RT games got better DLSS scaling then the 20% upgrade we are seeing is still not enough.
notseqi
Member
what is the white connector on the lower left side? i know the blue oneToo late
It's crazy how dinky and little the fans and heatsinks were back then and how much power use has blown up
DVI
notseqi
Member
men, the future is now
llien
Banned
FG is great.
Don't forget to turn it on your TV, TVs can also FG (although, they lack nucleal radio diffusal, as in 5000 series of NV):
And also mix in this little guy:
www.neogaf.com
This should let people get from 5-7 fps to stable 30+.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT, YOU HATERS???
Don't forget to turn it on your TV, TVs can also FG (although, they lack nucleal radio diffusal, as in 5000 series of NV):
And also mix in this little guy:
New Lossless Scaling 2.9 update introduces 3x Frame Interpolation
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/993090/view/4145080305033108761 Introducing the X3 frame generation mode. LSFG 2.1 can now generate two intermediate frames, effectively tripling the framerate. X3 has increased GPU load by approximately 1.7 times compared to X2 mode. At the same time...
This should let people get from 5-7 fps to stable 30+.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT, YOU HATERS???
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llien
Banned
Absolutely.
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
Reduced image quality, motion artefacts, and increased input lag.
I stole this from reddit but it highlights very effectively how stupid people sound with these new RTX 5000 cards
Look - framegen is an nice feature for those who want to max out pathtracing, but let's not make this the goddamn norm.
Probably for the same reason people began to act like 1080p sucks too. They got new 120hz displays and anything else became "unplayable". Harder, better, faster, stronger.
MikeM
Member
I’m fine with 60 on console. On PC, aim for 90fps minimum.
LordOfChaos
Member
Ah man I used to run 2001 way later than it was relevant because I liked seeing those tests get maxed out lol, nostalgia
Hot5pur
Gold Member
Even DLSS has artefacts on standard images, with raytracing it gets worse, but it's at the point where it's not noticeable outside of certain specific games and scenarios (like hair is really bad).
Framegen is a different beast altogether, there is just a handful of games that do it well, and the rest range from OK to mediocre. People forget that the quality of FG will also depend on the devs. And with devs these days putting out half broken games as it is, you really expect them to implement AI stuff correctly? Big yikes.
As a 4090 owner I turn FG off most of the time because of how broken it is. Sure Nvidia found some partners (Cyberpunk) with whom they got it to run well, but that's the exception, not the rule. Stop falling for marketing BS that's not substantiated. Having said all that, DLSS is now mature enough that I'll always have it on without having to worry.
Framegen is a different beast altogether, there is just a handful of games that do it well, and the rest range from OK to mediocre. People forget that the quality of FG will also depend on the devs. And with devs these days putting out half broken games as it is, you really expect them to implement AI stuff correctly? Big yikes.
As a 4090 owner I turn FG off most of the time because of how broken it is. Sure Nvidia found some partners (Cyberpunk) with whom they got it to run well, but that's the exception, not the rule. Stop falling for marketing BS that's not substantiated. Having said all that, DLSS is now mature enough that I'll always have it on without having to worry.