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[Plague Doctor]

So replaying and thinking about the ending, here's what I figured.. (spoilers galore)

Spoiler

This was all Hayden's plan that went wrong in many ways but also ended up with his key objective. Hayden isn't evil or with ill intentions to begin with. After mastering Argent Energy, he sets his sights on how to conquer the Hell dimension, subdued, and control the beings there. I believes he is doing it for what he perceives as the benefit of human kind. I think it's meant to be an allegorical character to King Solomon.

Initially, he feels Olivia is the key to all this. Perhaps cybernetic enhancements and study will discover a way to condition them. Olivia falls to corruption and this is a dead end. This is why Hayden is interested in the Doom Slayer, thinking this is a key as well towards his end. Also, he knows about the Crucible artifact and knows about it's real purpose (which we see in the final moments of the game).

I am not sure if he knew and intended on Olivia to set off the Argent Waves and tear open the hole, or if she just took him by surprise forcing him to play his gambit card of the Doom Slayer. I am inclined to think that wasn't part of the plan and he underestimated Olivia's resolve or even Hell's persuasive influence. I believe this wasn't part of the plan because Hayden genuinely wants the rift closed and is willing to accept the loss of his entire industry towards it.

The entire operation can (pardon the pun) go to hell provided that the hole is closed. Also, he can get his hands on the Crucible.

The player character and the crucible are still the key components towards his ultimate goal. And, we now have set the stage for the next plan to begin.

With all this said, I don't think Hayden is the villain or corrupted by the dimension. I think he suffers from hubris and is willing to place the material world in jeopardy towards the end of conquering and mastering the Hell dimension.

 

[Neiteio]

It's not a spoiler to say Samuel is the "break a few eggs to make an omelet" type (he more or less says so in the first five minutes of the game), while the Doom Marine is more of the "no, fuck you, it's not worth it if even one innocent person dies" type, which puts them at odds wit each other.

Also, I suspect you're right about King Solomon parallels trying to control the demons.

 

[Disgraced]

I was making my coffee today when I caught myself punching the air and making splat noises with my mouth imitating glory kills like a child and also a psychopath would do. Luckily, nobody was around. Well, except my dog, who looked at me like I'm crazy before hiding her head under her paws in embarrassment.

 

[Anteo]

It's not a spoiler to say Samuel is the "break a few eggs to make an omelet" type (he more or less says so in the first five minutes of the game), while the Doom Marine is more of the "no, fuck you, it's not worth it if even one innocent person dies"

Yeah.. i dont believe he is that kind of guy, he is more like "come on dude, over 60k dead people, that's like, almost 1/10 of the demons I killed"

 

[Neiteio]

I was making my coffee today when I caught myself punching the air and making splat noises with my mouth imitating glory kills like a child and also a psychopath would do. Luckily, nobody was around. Well, except my dog, who looked at me like I'm crazy before hiding her head under her paws in embarrassment.

LOL! Hey, no harm in fighting the make-believe demons!

 

[Johndoey]

Doom Slayer is clearly approaching it from a perspective of demons and demonic energies being far to dangerous to even briefly consider using on a large scale. Slayer is willing to use it but he's clearly a special case.

Spoiler

I assume some amalgamation of the happenings of 1,2 and 64 occurred maybe some alternate future or something, gets trapped in hell maybe hooks up with these Sentinel folk and pals with them leading up to his imprisonment

 

[Plague Doctor]

It's not a spoiler to say Samuel is the "break a few eggs to make an omelet" type (he more or less says so in the first five minutes of the game), while the Doom Marine is more of the "no, fuck you, it's not worth it if even one innocent person dies" type, which puts them at odds wit each other.

Also, I suspect you're right about King Solomon parallels trying to control the demons.

You know what... we don't know what the Doom Slayers approach to collateral loss of human life is. He seems to be more "kill demons all day, every day" and close the door to hell than trying to save humanity. (The same paths are similar though) I think it would totally kill the flow of gameplay, but it would be interesting to see how he'd approach a combat situation with normal humans in the mix. I think he wouldn't try to hurt them but.... yeah.. demon omelettes are his driving motivation. He's just a character consumed with hatred with demonkind... and we love him for it.

 

[joeygreco1985]

fuck me this game is unstable...

Yeah. PC version crashed a good 7 or 8 times through 15 hours of play time.

 

[March of the Crabs]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is there a way to replay the game on a harder difficulty with all of the stuff I unlocked? I'm debating on either getting the collectables individually through mission select or replaying the game on the hardest difficulty and getting them through that route.

 

[dlauv]

I think the

Spoiler

camera movement in the elevator to the corpse at the beginning of the game was purposeful and telling. Afterwards, he even smashes the elevator speaker. And this was all after tossing a monitor after a guy who nonchalantly proclaims responsibility for the scenario started trying to wheel and deal.

I don't think Doom Guy likes Icarian bureaucracy at all, and, needless to say, especially not to the potential benefit of hell. I don't think Samuel Hayden > S. Hayden >

Spoiler

Red Herring's analysis of Doom Guy's motivations at the end of the game was to be taken lightly either. It's clearly blunt as hell plot reveal.

 

[SpokkX]

Yeah, the load times are probably my biggest issue with the game. I'm playing it on Ultra Violence and die fairly frequently too.

Yeah was annoying on ps4 so i switched to pc

Loading times upon death are 1sec or less on ssd

 

[Johndoey]

I think the

Spoiler

camera movement in the elevator to the corpse at the beginning of the game was purposeful and telling. Afterwards, he even smashes the elevator speaker. And this was all after tossing a monitor after a guy who nonchalantly proclaims responsibility for the scenario started trying to wheel and deal.

I don't think Doom Guy likes Icarian bureaucracy at all, and, needless to say, especially not to the potential benefit of hell. I don't think Samuel Hayden > S. Hayden >

Spoiler

Red Herring's analysis of Doom Guy's motivations at the end of the game was to be taken lightly either. It's clearly blunt as hell plot reveal.

Exactly, they were clearly trying to communicate that Slayer obviously has some value for human life and finds the "ends justify the means" spiel lacking.

 

[DJSebolski]

How is SnapMap?

 

[nextgeneration]

Yeah was annoying on ps4 so i switched to pc

Loading times upon death are 1sec or less on ssd

How are you able to get it to load in 1 second or less? Is it one of those m2 ssd's or something? I have an SSD also, but it still takes about maybe 6 - 9 seconds or so to load for me.

 

[RespectThySole]

Just picked this up. I've heard nothing but great things about it.

 

[Neiteio]

You know what... we don't know what the Doom Slayers approach to collateral loss of human life is. He seems to be more "kill demons all day, every day" and close the door to hell than trying to save humanity. (The same paths are similar though) I think it would totally kill the flow of gameplay, but it would be interesting to see how he'd approach a combat situation with normal humans in the mix. I think he wouldn't try to hurt them but.... yeah.. demon omelettes are his driving motivation. He's just a character consumed with hatred with demonkind... and we love him for it.

Yeah.. i dont believe he is that kind of guy, he is more like "come on dude, over 60k dead people, that's like, almost 1/10 of the demons I killed"

No, he cares about people.

It's a small example, but at the beginning of the game, before the title card, when he's in the elevator and Samuel says "I did it for the benefit of mankind," the Doom Marine looks down at the corpse of a human, and it's at that point he smashes the terminal in anger.

This is the game's way of saying, "The Doom Marine sees the human cost of Samuel's operation and he doesn't like it. He's pissed about the loss of life."

The whole reason the Doom Marine is driven to hunt demons is because he knows what they will do to the human world (and others). Also bear in mind, if all he wanted to do was kill demons, he wouldn't be trying to close the Well and sever the connection between worlds. He'd let them continue to flow in so he could continue to kill them.

He is, above all else, trying to save humanity (and in the past, perhaps other civilizations as well). Killing demons is simply a means to those ends.

 

[A-V-B]

No, he cares about people.

It's a small example, but at the beginning of the game, before the title card, when he's in the elevator and Samuel says "I did it for the benefit of mankind," the Doom Marine looks down at the corpse of a human, and it's at that point he smashes the terminal in anger.

This is the game's way of saying, "The Doom Marine sees the human cost of Samuel's operation and he doesn't like it. He's pissed about the loss of life."

The whole reason the Doom Marine is driven to hunt demons is because he knows what they will do to the human world (and others). Also bear in mind, if all he wanted to do was kill demons, he wouldn't be trying to close the Well and sever the connection between worlds. He'd let them continue to flow in so he could continue to kill them.

He is, above all else, trying to save humanity (and in the past, perhaps other civilizations as well). Killing demons is simply a means to those ends.

Doom Guy is a mute Captain America with insatiable blood lust.

 

[Johndoey]

Doom Guy is a mute Captain America with insatiable blood lust.

I'd say closer to certain depictions of Punisher, but yeah.

 

[Plague Doctor]

No, he cares about people.

It's a small example, but at the beginning of the game, before the title card, when he's in the elevator and Samuel says "I did it for the benefit of mankind," the Doom Marine looks down at the corpse of a human, and it's at that point he smashes the terminal in anger.

This is the game's way of saying, "The Doom Marine sees the human cost of Samuel's operation and he doesn't like it. He's pissed about the loss of life."

The whole reason the Doom Marine is driven to hunt demons is because he knows what they will do to the human world (and others). Also bear in mind, if all he wanted to do was kill demons, he wouldn't be trying to close the Well and sever the connection between worlds. He'd let them continue to flow in so he could continue to kill them.

He is, above all else, trying to save humanity (and in the past, perhaps other civilizations as well). Killing demons is simply a means to those ends.

You know what. I forgot that small exchange and can completely see your point. I guess I was getting the vibe that our protagonist was too far gone in sanity and now bent on a single minded blood mission against demons, but the described scene is a salient moment to express the counter argument.

It's really a testament to the minimal and effective ways the game presents the protagonist's personality.

I'd say closer to certain depictions of Punisher, but yeah.

That's more of the first impression I got of him. The Frank Castle for demonkind. Won't hurt the perceived innocent but would do crazy shit to shut down hell.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Utterly terrible. Weak sound, I dislike its reticule (movements) and the lack of good feedback from the enemies in this case makes it feel like a peashooter. THANK GOD any of the other guns are so much better.

I liked it once I got the cluster bomb upgrades.

 

[CloudyTuba]

I've gotten as far as Lazarus Labs and the game is just kicking my ass now. I've been playing on Ultra Violence all this time but I'm now considering toning it down to Hurt Me Plenty. My ass is getting handed to me left and right while previously I held my own well.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I've gotten as far as Lazarus Labs and the game is just kicking my ass now. I've been playing on Ultra Violence all this time but I'm now considering toning it down to Hurt Me Plenty. My ass is getting handed to me left and right while previously I held my own well.

Rip more. Tear harder.

 

[HorseFD]

On PC or console?
Ok, found the answer requires internet connection on xbox one after the patch, crazy!

That's weird, I wonder why? It works on PS4 with no internet connection.

 

[antitrop]

I've gotten as far as Lazarus Labs and the game is just kicking my ass now. I've been playing on Ultra Violence all this time but I'm now considering toning it down to Hurt Me Plenty. My ass is getting handed to me left and right while previously I held my own well.

Super Shotgun + the rune that makes enemies easier to stagger gets the job done pretty well.

And in the words of the venerable House of Pain: "Jump Around".

 

[Anteo]

This is the game's way of saying, "The Doom Marine sees the human cost of Samuel's operation and he doesn't like it. He's pissed about the loss of life."

Ehh, I took that as him acting like "better of mankind? ha, yeah sure", its hard to take him as a really caring character when right at the begining of the game, where he didnt know what happened he just pushed away the screen not caring for any real explanation of what is going on. Samuel had to trap him in a room to actually get to talk to him many times in the game.

 

[Protein]

If you're going Ultra Violence, upgrade ammo first. On nightmare, do both ammo and health first. Take advantage of those runes and go back and level up your weapons if you're struggling. Nightmare is only hard in the beginning.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

It's really a testament to the minimal and effective ways the game presents the protagonist's personality.


.

Yeah it's fucking nuts that the Doom Slayer shows more emotion and character with merely his goddamn ARMS than the Master Chief has ever displayed in 16 years of dialogue, cutscenes and books.

The original green space marine is back baby.

 

[RoboPlato]

Question now that the game has been out for a while. Two complaints from before launch that never made sense to me were the inclusions of throwable grenades and the shortcuts for the chainsaw and BFG as panic buttons. Can anyone explain why people were concerned about those specific elements and why they aren't an issue in the final game?

 

[ffejeromdiks]

Question now that the game has been out for a while. Two complaints from before launch that never made sense to me were the inclusions of throwable grenades and the shortcuts for the chainsaw and BFG as panic buttons. Can anyone explain why people were concerned about those specific elements and why they aren't an issue in the final game?

Well i mean you could argue that almost every single mechanic or information that came out about 2016 DOOM pre-release was met with endless criticism without merit. I think for whatever reason, people just really wanted to dogpile on the game, and every new detail that came out was more fuel for their fire.

 

[dlauv]

It's simple: we feared change, with the precedent of id's inadequacy since DOOM 3, the polarizing multiplayer, and the core staff bereft of founding members.

 

[NotLiquid]

Question now that the game has been out for a while. Two complaints from before launch that never made sense to me were the inclusions of throwable grenades and the shortcuts for the chainsaw and BFG as panic buttons. Can anyone explain why people were concerned about those specific elements and why they aren't an issue in the final game?

Grenades are a decidedly "modern" convention in shooters and are associated with different kinds of playstyles. Thankfully they complement the game rather well here.

The chainsaw/BFG as far as "panic" button goes I think has more to do with the fact that the chainsaw specifically was usually just a standard weapon, and even though it wasn't the most optimal weapon to use it still filled a certain niche. Using it as a dedicated button seemed to imply at first that it was just the game being too much style over substance by prioritizing more finisher animations.

 

[nded]

Ehh, I took that as him acting like "better of mankind? ha, yeah sure", its hard to take him as a really caring character when right at the begining of the game, where he didnt know what happened he just pushed away the screen not caring for any real explanation of what is going on. Samuel had to trap him in a room to actually get to talk to him many times in the game.

Doomguy knows exactly what's going on. The thing he doesn't care about is Hayden's justification for opening the gates of Hell.

 

[Neiteio]

Ehh, I took that as him acting like "better of mankind? ha, yeah sure", its hard to take him as a really caring character when right at the begining of the game, where he didnt know what happened he just pushed away the screen not caring for any real explanation of what is going on. Samuel had to trap him in a room to actually get to talk to him many times in the game.

Pushing away the screen shows anger at bullshit leading to loss of life, and shows him not trusting Samuel. It's pretty clear from his body language he's bothered by the loss of life.

 

[Izuna]

We might get a prequel DLC where we play the lead up to doomguy ending up in the chest.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

Pushing away the screen shows anger at bullshit leading to loss of life, and shows him not trusting Samuel. It's pretty clear from his body language he's bothered by the loss of life.

nah, it's doomguy going "fuck this narrative device I don't care"

he's an angry, angry man that wants nothing more than to kill every single demon there is in hell

 

[Neiteio]

nah, it's doomguy going "fuck this narrative device I don't care"

he's an angry, angry man that wants nothing more than to kill every single demon there is in hell

Then why would he try to shut down the tower? Why would he try to close the Well? Why close the portal? That just makes it harder to find demons to kill.

He's trying to save humanity. He cares.

And it's not like these concepts are mutually exclusive. He can care about people, AND want to kill every demon.

 

[Piston Hyundai]

Then why would he try to close the Well? Why close the portal? That just makes it harder to find demons to kill.

keeping the well open would probably make his "kill EVERYTHING" job a lot harder

 

[Neiteio]

I'm really surprised this is even up for argument. The whole bit where he looks at a dead body as Samuel says he did it for the benefit of mankind and then he punches the terminal in anger shows he's pissed by the loss of life.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I have to clean up my place for a party!

 

[RoboPlato]

Then why would he try to shut down the tower? Why would he try to close the Well? Why close the portal? That just makes it harder to find demons to kill.

He's trying to save humanity. He cares.

And it's not like these concepts are mutually exclusive. He can care about people, AND want to kill every demon.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that he thinks that the demons are far too dangerous for anyone to mess with at all, wants to cut off their links to this world, and eliminate any that have crossed over. His looks at the bodies and the portals in the cutscenes before he gets pissed and breaks shit say a whole lot.

 

[Johndoey]

Slayer is defending humanity and enjoying himself at the same time, win-win.
But he is still defending humanity. This isn't an M D Geist scenario.

 

[Neiteio]

keeping the well open would probably make his "kill EVERYTHING" job a lot harder

Quite the opposite. It's like the movie 300, and the portal at the UAC is the bottleneck. They come, he kills. He makes killing them much harder if he closes the portal and fights them on their turf. Better to let them come through a door and kill them at the doorway one by one, so to speak. But he won't do that because that puts mankind at risk. So he goes to close the portal.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that he thinks that the demons are far too dangerous for anyone to mess with at all, wants to cut off their links to this world, and eliminate any that have crossed over. His looks at the bodies and the portals in the cutscenes before he gets pissed and breaks shit say a whole lot.

Exactly.

 

[Bornstellar]

Well that ending was sudden. Wish there was more. Time to play through on nightmare.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

Wait...people think Doomguy cares about anything other than killing stuff? Seriously? lol

No people, no. He only cares about killing shit. That's literally it. If he cared about the humans that had died he would have treated them a little bit better than ripping off their arms, shoving a boot in the face of one of them to get a chainsaw and ripping off tags and walking away.

He doesn't care about the Argent, not because it's dangerous, but because it took too fucking long to work out how to shut it down so he just punched it.

Fucking hell people.

 

[Johndoey]

There is a pretty big difference between a living human and a half shredded corpse.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

Wait...people think Doomguy cares about anything other than killing stuff? Seriously? lol

No people, no. He only cares about killing shit. That's literally it. If he cared about the humans that had died he would have treated them a little bit better than ripping off their arms, shoving a boot in the face of one of them to get a chainsaw and ripping off tags and walking away.

He doesn't care about the Argent, not because it's dangerous, but because it took too fucking long to work out how to shut it down so he just punched it.

Fucking hell people.

It's subtle but no, Doomguy certainly cares, he's just not buying the bullshit Hayden is selling. If he only cared about killing why would he even bother to disobey Hayden and backup Vega?

 

[SirMossyBloke]

It's subtle but no, Doomguy certainly cares, he's just not buying the bullshit Hayden is selling. If he only cared about killing why would he even bother to disobey Hayden and backup Vega?

He doesn't care about Hayden or Vega. He only followed Vega's plan so to destroy the well. He only destroyed the well to fuck with Hell.

He hates Hell and everything in it. Nothing was about anything else. There's simply no point within the game that shows he sympathises with the loss of life.

Unless I missed something. Which, I may have considering a never read the data pads.

 

[gdt]

God this game just fucking rocks. What a surprise.

 

[dlauv]

He doesn't care about Hayden or Vega. He only followed Vega's plan so to destroy the well. He only destroyed the well to fuck with Hell.

He hates Hell and everything in it. Nothing was about anything else. There's simply no point within the game that shows he sympathises with the loss of life.

Unless I missed something. Which, I may have considering a never read the data pads.

Before destroying

Spoiler

VEGA, Doom Guy backed him up on a chip in the cutscene. Hayden thought VEGA was gone for good.

 

[Neiteio]

He doesn't care about Hayden or Vega. He only followed Vega's plan so to destroy the well. He only destroyed the well to fuck with Hell.

He hates Hell and everything in it. Nothing was about anything else. There's simply no point within the game that shows he sympathises with the loss of life.

Unless I missed something. Which, I may have considering a never read the data pads.

Did you watch the beginning of the game, where he looks at the corpse while Sam says "it was for the benefit of mankind" and then he grows pissed because it was definitely NOT for the benefit of mankind, and he smashes the terminal?

Did you see how he looks at the portals while Sam tells them they're necessary for the "for the benefit of mankind" before he smashes the batteries powering them so the demons can no longer reach the humans in the human world?

He cares. He loves killing demons, but he also cares about the people he's protecting.

Also, him being rough with corpses doesn't mean he doesn't care. He's being practical. They're already dead, and he has no time to waste.

 

[Johndoey]

Mid-late game story spoiler.

Slayer goes out of his way to

Spoiler

back-up Vega because Vega has some level of sentience.