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DOOM |OT| Rip and tear, until it's done

M

msv

Member
darkwing-buck said:
How's the level design so far guys?
Click to expand...
Only passed the first 3 levels or so, but it seems to be a mix with linear stuff that you go by one by one, and larger levels with a lot to explore. Does it go more towards the latter in the game? I hope so. Also, there are lots of 'arena' sections in the maps, where an arena fight starts and the area is locked off until you kill the enemies. Don't like that mechanism TBH.

I think its more difficult without glory kills. I've turned them off from the start, but I had to switch to the normal level because I kept running out of ammo. I see them struggling indicating a glory kill, but it seems like you really HAVE to do a glory kill then. If you try to kill em with weapons it will actually take almost as much damage as it would to kill it fresh.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
darkwing-buck said:
How's the level design so far guys?
Click to expand...
It's fascinating. It's not really like Doom, but it's not like a modern game either.

It almost feels like an evolution of Quake. The maps are massive, there are tons of different directions to go in, doors are often locked, and secrets are everywhere. The Foundry mission is this massive open area with suspended bridges everywhere and lots of sub-areas all over the place. You wind up criss-crossing around the level while organically unlocking new areas via keys and other things.

The reason it feels more like Quake than Doom is that they really use the full three dimensions to great effect. There is often a lot of verticality plus a huge focus on jumping and climbing. None of that was possible in Doom.

So, yeah, think Quake with a very different aesthetic and some modern flourishes.

The more linear sections feel like more like Doom 3 with a much faster pace as well. So maybe Doom 3 + Quake + classic Doom? I dunno, it's like an amalgamation of id's history in one package.
 
V

Valkyr1983

Banned
msv said:
Only passed the first 3 levels or so, but it seems to be a mix with linear stuff that you go by one by one, and larger levels with a lot to explore. Does it go more towards the latter in the game? I hope so. Also, there are lots of 'arena' sections in the maps, where an arena fight starts and the area is locked off until you kill the enemies. Don't like that mechanism TBH.

I think its more difficult without glory kills. I've turned them off from the start, but I had to switch to the normal level because I kept running out of ammo. I see them struggling indicating a glory kill, but it seems like you really HAVE to do a glory kill then. If you try to kill em with weapons it will actually take almost as much damage as it would to kill it fresh.
Click to expand...

Ugh I hate arena encounters.... Why!?!?!

I'm out
 
J

Justinian

Member
msv said:
I think its more difficult without glory kills. I've turned them off from the start, but I had to switch to the normal level because I kept running out of ammo. I see them struggling indicating a glory kill, but it seems like you really HAVE to do a glory kill then. If you try to kill em with weapons it will actually take almost as much damage as it would to kill it fresh.
Click to expand...

What do you mean you turned off glory kills? Are you talking about the indicator? Also, if the enemy is staggered, it doesn't take much to finish them off. So you end up using a little bit of extra ammo but nothing severe.

Also as I play, I'm noticing that there are drawbacks to glory kills. Even though they are quick and unintrusive, they do make you lose your surroundings sometimes. So while they are good to do to regain health, It's often more efficient to finish them off with weapons in the heat of battle.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
This, so far, is a really great, simple, and most importantly satisfying game to play. Very impressive and having a blast, enough to not even worry about picking up Uncharted 4 this weekend. Just gonna blast through this.

Only downer is id Tech 5 and its awful, awful texture streaming.
 
T

Tomasoares

Member
Original Doom also had a lot of vertically, but nothing related to jumping or climbing, of course. Also, it had some more linear levels along with non-linear ones.
 
V

Valkyr1983

Banned
Justinian said:
What do you mean you turned off glory kills? Are you talking about the indicator? Also, if the enemy is staggered, it doesn't take much to finish them off. So you end up using a little bit of extra ammo but nothing severe.

Also as I play, I'm noticing that there are drawbacks to glory kills. Even though they are quick and unintrusive, they do make you lose your surroundings sometimes. So while they are good to do to regain health, It's often more efficient to finish them off with weapons in the heat of battle.
Click to expand...

Turning off the flash/indicator isn't enough

You need to be able to turn off the stun/stagger state completely

Can you?
 
J

Jito

Banned
dan2026 said:
This doesn't sound like what I want out of a Doom game at all.

The QTE kill things really soured me.
Click to expand...

Good thing you can turn of the indicators and avoid it if you desire.

Should really be a massive bold message at the top of every Doom thread as repeating this is getting tiring.
 
M

msv

Member
Justinian said:
What do you mean you turned off glory kills? Are you talking about the indicator? Also, if the enemy is staggered, it doesn't take much to finish them off. So you end up using a little bit of extra ammo but nothing severe.

Also as I play, I'm noticing that there are drawbacks to glory kills. Even though they are quick and unintrusive, they do make you lose your surroundings sometimes. So while they are good to do to regain health, It's often more efficient to finish them off with weapons in the heat of battle.
Click to expand...
Turning off the glory kills is not just the indicator, you can't do glory kills anymore. You normally press E for glory kills right? And it does take a lot to finish em off. Hell Knights take like three - four shotguns before they go down in their glory kill state.

Edit: Glory kills are still in, it's F not E. My bad.
 
CoolZombie

CoolZombie

Member
EatChildren said:
This, so far, is a really great, simple, and most importantly satisfying game to play. Very impressive and having a blast, enough to not even worry about picking up Uncharted 4 this weekend. Just gonna blast through this.

Only downer is id Tech 5 and its awful, awful texture streaming.
Click to expand...

Isn't this game id Tech 6?
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Rasko said:
What does this mean? Do you play on consoles?
Click to expand...

I'm on PC. Walking up to an object and looking closely (not that you do that much in DOOM) you can usually see the HD textures pop in. New Order had the same problem, as did Rage.

CoolZombie360 said:
Isn't this game id Tech 6?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I mean.
 
M

msv

Member
Valkyr1983 said:
Turning off the flash/indicator isn't enough

You need to be able to turn off the stun/stagger state completely

Can you?
Click to expand...
The stagger state is still there, but you can't glory kill em, AFAIK. I tried pressing E and it doesn't work.

EDIT: So it's F not E. Tried it and you can still glory kill.
 
O

Octavianus

Banned
Simo said:
Dammit. Looks like I'm gonna go on the hunt for the CE then. lol
Click to expand...

Haha, you should. I havent even fired up the game but it's already a worthwhile purchase to me.

I hope I'll like it.
I've been watching a bit of the footage that's been coming out since the games release and it looks like Beth (I assume the advertisement was all on them?) really droped the ball. Their trailers and the little gameplay they released made the game look pretty dull but that nvidia demo and some of the other stuff I've seen really impressed me.
 
F

flozuki

Member
Rasko said:
Given everything you guys say about singleplayer graphics, I really think those betas they had were not a good idea. I know lots of people who were underwhelmed and were left questioning whether they should get the game or not. How can we spread the word? :)
Click to expand...

Well, at least you´ve got my attention^^
 
N

nowheretorun

Member
msv said:
Only passed the first 3 levels or so, but it seems to be a mix with linear stuff that you go by one by one, and larger levels with a lot to explore. Does it go more towards the latter in the game? I hope so. Also, there are lots of 'arena' sections in the maps, where an arena fight starts and the area is locked off until you kill the enemies. Don't like that mechanism TBH.

I think its more difficult without glory kills. I've turned them off from the start, but I had to switch to the normal level because I kept running out of ammo. I see them struggling indicating a glory kill, but it seems like you really HAVE to do a glory kill then. If you try to kill em with weapons it will actually take almost as much damage as it would to kill it fresh.
Click to expand...

That's a shame.

Valkyr1983 said:
Ugh I hate arena encounters.... Why!?!?!

I'm out
Click to expand...

Same as. Feel cheap as fuck.

Justinian said:
What do you mean you turned off glory kills? Are you talking about the indicator? Also, if the enemy is staggered, it doesn't take much to finish them off. So you end up using a little bit of extra ammo but nothing severe.

Also as I play, I'm noticing that there are drawbacks to glory kills. Even though they are quick and unintrusive, they do make you lose your surroundings sometimes. So while they are good to do to regain health, It's often more efficient to finish them off with weapons in the heat of battle.
Click to expand...

I thought he already explained that he was running out of ammo and that they take as much ammo even in the staggered state?

Perhaps you both have different difficulty levels?

dan2026 said:
This doesn't sound like what I want out of a Doom game at all.

The QTE kill things really soured me.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's funny cos part of me would like to do the occasional Glory Kill - just not running round like a superhuman doing it over and over again, which is what I keep seeing in most of peoples footage and yet it doesn't appear to bother them at all.

Would have been a great idea if they were some form of pick ups imo.

Valkyr1983 said:
Turning off the flash/indicator isn't enough

You need to be able to turn off the stun/stagger state completely

Can you?
Click to expand...

Be interesting to know.

Justinian said:
No, it's an intrinsic part of the gameplay. Think of it as a flashier melee that returns health.
Click to expand...

Oh right but the guy below says you still can'g Glory Kill them. Is that right? Pc or Ps4?

msv said:
The stagger state is still there, but you can't glory kill em, AFAIK. I tried pressing E and it doesn't work.
Click to expand...

^
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I think the arena battles are fine so far. They fit the gunplay. I don't even mind the glory kills, which is the biggest surprise. They're quick. And there's a decently satisfying gameplay loop of comboing gunplay with glory kills and chainsaw kills to balance health and ammo drops.
 
M

Mupod

Member
Unlike most fans of the originals I never understood why I'm supposed to be obligated to bitch about the 'glory kills'. They're a mechanic, they work well. You get some invulnerability frames to stop and think about your next move, a little bit of health, and they encourage you to get in there and mix it up with your shotgun rather than hide in a door frame or something. I'm already finding them a bit repetitive but I like being encouraged to do silly shit like stun an imp then jump down on him from above to goomba stomp his face.

Anyways, checkpoints aside my only other annoyance with the game is the audio.The dynamic music is fine, I mean stuff like audio cues and monster noises. It likes to spawn imps in behind you and I can never tell amidst the way-too-loud zombie screeching and strangely noisy 'demon disintegrating' sounds. Maybe I'll get more used to it over time.

Question - how do you upgrade the chainsaw? The tutorial tips said I could spend weapon upgrade points on it to increase its capacity, but I don't see it on the screen.
 
B

Bloodporne

Member
nowheretorun said:
That's a shame.



Same as. Feel cheap as fuck.



I thought he already explained that he was running out of ammo and that they take as much ammo even in the staggered state?

Perhaps you both have different difficulty levels?



Yep. It's funny cos part of me would like to do the occasional Glory Kill - just not running round like a superhuman doing it over and over again, which is what I keep seeing in most of peoples footage and yet it doesn't appear to bother them at all.

Would have been a great idea if they were some form of pick ups imo.



Be interesting to know.



Oh right but the guy below says you still can'g Glory Kill them. Is that right? Pc or Ps4?



^
Click to expand...

Just spoke with a buddy of mine whose tastes are similarly archaic to mine who bought it. He confirmed the overt reliance on typical modern arena gameplay and glory kills being essentially necessary and constant. The game isn't balanced for ignoring glory kills he said. According to him the levels so far feel extremely based around arena wave fights with basically 'explore now' bits thrown in between.

Good for people who can look past this and have a great time but yea, that sounds like the exact opposite of what I want out of this as expected. I'll pick it up as a rental for the weekend sometime, not forking my money over to id for this.
 
M

Momentary

Banned
Valkyr1983 said:
Ugh I hate arena encounters.... Why!?!?!

I'm out
Click to expand...

It's more than that. It's just goes into an arena section for like objective kills and there are multiple paths to take and a lot of hidden. Ones. I feel like people who say it's linear just don't look around enough. So many secrets and alternate routes.

On another note.. thanks goodness for the chainsaw and glory kills. The game is still difficult on UV and Nightmare with them on. I can't imagine the game being beatable by me without them. Plus, with how quick they are, I get a good feeling of synergy along with a since of being able to plan my next move within that .5 seconds of breathing time.
 
B

Beepos

Member
Justinian said:
Firstly it's definitely worth your time if you're after an old school style shooter. The level design and frantic yet tactical combat assures that. It's very different to TNO in that it's not a cinematic game. Its almost 100% focused on combat and level exploration. The combat itself is far deeper and more fun than TNO IMO.

It has less creepy atmosphere than Doom 3 but is superior in every other way. It feels much more like Doom than Doom 3 ever did.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah I enjoyed the creepy / scare atmosphere of Doom 3 but it should of been named a different game due to the changes in gameplay.

Thankyou for the impressions. Just finished a Brutal Doom playthrough and yes, the more I watch this, the more I will pick it up at the right time I think.
 
F

FaintDeftone

Junior Member
Picking my preorder up this afternoon.

I don't mind the arena sections. As long as the combat stays consistently fun then I'm fine with it. Watching skilled players play it looks like a ton of fun.
 
N

nowheretorun

Member
Mupod said:
Unlike most fans of the originals I never understood why I'm supposed to be obligated to bitch about the 'glory kills'. They're a mechanic, they work well. You get some invulnerability frames to stop and think about your next move, a little bit of health, and they encourage you to get in there and mix it up with your shotgun rather than hide in a door frame or something. I'm already finding them a bit repetitive but I like being encouraged to do silly shit like stun an imp then jump down on him from above to goomba stomp his face.

Anyways, checkpoints aside my only other annoyance with the game is the audio.The dynamic music is fine, I mean stuff like audio cues and monster noises. It likes to spawn imps in behind you and I can never tell amidst the way-too-loud zombie screeching and strangely noisy 'demon disintegrating' sounds. Maybe I'll get more used to it over time.

Question - how do you upgrade the chainsaw? The tutorial tips said I could spend weapon upgrade points on it to increase its capacity, but I don't see it on the screen.
Click to expand...

Who says you are obligated to bitch about the Glory Kills?

And then you proceed to mention they are becoming repetitive.....

Bloodporne said:
Just spoke with a buddy of mine whose tastes are similarly archaic to mine who bought it. He confirmed the overt reliance on typical modern arena gameplay and glory kills being essentially necessary and constant. The game isn't balanced for ignoring glory kills he said. According to him the levels so far feel extremely based around arena wave fights with basically 'explore now' bits thrown in between.

Good for people who can look past this and have a great time but yea, that sounds like the exact opposite of what I want out of this as expected. I'll pick it up as a rental for the weekend sometime, not forking my money over to id for this.
Click to expand...

Nice post but gutted at the same time.
:-(
 
A

AgentOtaku

Member
dark10x said:
It's fascinating. It's not really like Doom, but it's not like a modern game either.

It almost feels like an evolution of Quake. The maps are massive, there are tons of different directions to go in, doors are often locked, and secrets are everywhere. The Foundry mission is this massive open area with suspended bridges everywhere and lots of sub-areas all over the place. You wind up criss-crossing around the level while organically unlocking new areas via keys and other things.

The reason it feels more like Quake than Doom is that they really use the full three dimensions to great effect. There is often a lot of verticality plus a huge focus on jumping and climbing. None of that was possible in Doom.

So, yeah, think Quake with a very different aesthetic and some modern flourishes.

The more linear sections feel like more like Doom 3 with a much faster pace as well. So maybe Doom 3 + Quake + classic Doom? I dunno, it's like an amalgamation of id's history in one package.
Click to expand...

Must...contain....hype...
 
O

Onemic

Member
The glory kill animation is repetitive but I definitely think it still adds to the gameplay. I thought id hate the mechanic, but with glory kill highlights turned off, it feels like a nice addition
 
SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
Quake 1 was essentially Doom 3. True Doom 3 wasn't really a Doom game, it was much slower.

New Doom goes back to the roots somewhat. Though its not completely labyrinth, there is linear progression and artificial cockblocking in the shape of arena encounters. But the gameplay suits it, in Rage I enjoyed the gameshow battles the most. Its very much like this. The glory kills could be toned down to heavy enemies only or something, but I don't mind them.

Sound is weak. Which is about my only gripe so far.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
I don't understand how people can call this gameplay simple
what other shooters are not simple then? crysis maybe?

I feel the glory kills, the chiansaw and the vertical leveldesign enemies use to their advantage add a lot of depth to doom's combat. every encounter feels almost like dancing that constantly makes you rethink tacticl decisions.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
Mupod said:
Question - how do you upgrade the chainsaw? The tutorial tips said I could spend weapon upgrade points on it to increase its capacity, but I don't see it on the screen.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's possible. Probably a left-over thing when it could be upgraded.
I sure as hell haven't seen how that's done.
 
B

Bedlam

Member
So, reading some comments I guess we are currently in the "fresh game enthusiasm"-phase. It'll be interesting to see whether the enthusiasm will persist in the coming weeks.
 
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