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[Drkirby]

I can't even think of how to start a graph comparing Deso and Maelstrom, they have such different effects.

I feel its going to be the simple thing of "Deso is better for single target, Maelstorm for AoE". Deso basically applies -50% EHP though. 2000 HP hero will lose 960 EHP under Deso's effect.

 

[BHK3]

I never realized just how hard Silver Edge fucks Faceless Void over. Like holy shit it's ridiculous how much of a mockery it makes of that hero.

Worse on PA, half of her hero gets reduced to a creep.

 

[Artanisix]

You could force baseline armor of 0/5/10, single target only, no AOE damage taken into effect, at all levels of ulti. That's how I would do it anyway

 

[Shuggananas]

maelstrom and deso don't have the same purpose though
maelstrom is better for pushing lanes, farming stacks, teamfights
deso is better for pushing towers, farming stuff like ancients, doing rosh, and solo kills rather than teamfights, although it's still pretty good in teamfights too because you kill one target faster giving less time for the enemy to react or save them

the 25 attack speed on maelstrom helps farm a bit too, you ain't gonna ult creeps anyway

Worse on PA, half of her hero gets reduced to a creep.

PA had many counters even before silver edge though. Thinking lina's aghs, qop's ult, that kinda jazz

 

[Artanisix]

i'm aware they don't serve the same purpose
i am merely curious what the comparison of their single target dps is like

also i'm sorry, but cosmetics are over. it's done. megatusk x is the best set in the world.

 

[Hylian7]

Worse on PA, half of her hero gets reduced to a creep.

I'd say it's really about the same for both, maybe slightly more for PA just because it takes her ultimate away.

With Void a lot of his damage comes from the double damage bashes under Chrono. I played a game as Drow against one with Silver Edge and I would just wait for him to Chrono, and then boom, just blow him up instantly. Either that or just find him first if I could and just Silver Edge into silence and he's dead.

 

[Shuggananas]

For single target deso must win by a fair margin
50 vs 24 damage
maelstrom AS doesn't matter with ult
chain lightning deals ok damage but it's only 25% so that makes it way less impressive
maelstrom has no -armor

 

[Kard8p3]

Milk how far r u in Witcher?

 

[Artanisix]

24 hours in, level 12, just finished main questline in Velen and am now moving to Novigrad

 

[Kard8p3]

Aww shit. Novigrad is a home to awesome quests.

 

[JC Sera]

DotaGaf I need your help
I'm making a pretty simple guide for newbs on hero difficulty because this one is laughably out of date
I referred to it a lot when I started out however and it still had its uses


I think I got a good base for this one and its visually very straight forward and simple,
but I definitely see my own biases in ranking of difficulty in what I have and I want an outside perspective
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1j3ap7iqbt3d1q/DOPA.pdf?dl=0
Its not finished yet because putting the pictures in so they are nice an ordered is a bit of a pain, and I wan't to get the ordering done before I continue

lotsa love for any help

 

[Shuggananas]

DotaGaf I need your help
I'm making a pretty simple guide for newbs on hero difficulty because this one is laughably out of date
I referred to it a lot when I started out however and it still had its uses


I think I got a good base for this one and its visually very straight forward and simple,
but I definitely see my own biases in ranking of difficulty in what I have and I want an outside perspective
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1j3ap7iqbt3d1q/DOPA.pdf?dl=0
Its not finished yet because putting the pictures in so they are nice an ordered is a bit of a pain, and I wan't to get the ordering done before I continue

lotsa love for any help

spectre being harder than meepo, this guide is nice

can't help you though, dropbox is blocked here

edit : that's blocked too heh
re-edit : google docs is blocked too anyways, these assholes block most hosting sites

 

[Artanisix]

shit thats what i was gonna ask

anyone know of a good wristy cushion, my wrist has been unhappy lately

 

[JC Sera]

spectre being harder than meepo, this guide is nice

can't help you though, dropbox is blocked here

http://www.docdroid.net/11irc/dopa.pdf.html
heres a non dropbox link
for a second there I thought you meant my guide

edit: I was half expecting that
I'd link google docs but I don't like my real name on the interwebs

 

[TUSR]

shit thats what i was gonna ask

anyone know of a good wristy cushion, my wrist has been unhappy lately

id get banned linking a few

 

[Zeknurn]

This is a clowny ass game.

 

[Hylian7]

DotaGaf I need your help
I'm making a pretty simple guide for newbs on hero difficulty because this one is laughably out of date
I referred to it a lot when I started out however and it still had its uses


I think I got a good base for this one and its visually very straight forward and simple,
but I definitely see my own biases in ranking of difficulty in what I have and I want an outside perspective
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1j3ap7iqbt3d1q/DOPA.pdf?dl=0
Its not finished yet because putting the pictures in so they are nice an ordered is a bit of a pain, and I wan't to get the ordering done before I continue

lotsa love for any help

Took a brief gander at it, a few suggestions:

- Move Shadow Shaman to Tier 2, I'm sure he's probably under 3 because a channeling spell is easy for a new player to fuck up, but I think Shackles is pretty clear in what it does that people will get the idea of channeling with it pretty quickly.
- Move Tidehunter to Tier 2 as well, hero has a pretty straightforward ultimate that's great for learning about initiation, as well as good survivability.
- Tinker needs to go down to Tier 4, or even arguably Tier 5. It really takes a lot of knowledge to use him properly, and then being able to internalize everything you have to do with him can be a pretty daunting task, probably even up there with microing Meepo.
- Timbersaw can probably go in Tier 3, he's not a terribly difficult hero to learn to play in my opinion, just requires smart management, as any of the heroes in the previous tiers do.
- Visage can seem intimidating, but I think he can go in Tier 4 instead of Tier 5. I mean if Lone Druid is Tier 4, I think surely Visage is. If your argument for it is the weirdness of his spells though (soul charges for Soul Assumption, the layers of Gravekeepers Cloak, micromanaging flying units that could be potentially on opposite sides of the map) then I can see your argument for making him Tier 5.

 

[JC Sera]

Took a brief gander at it, a few suggestions:

- Move Shadow Shaman to Tier 2, I'm sure he's probably under 3 because a channeling spell is easy for a new player to fuck up, but I think Shackles is pretty clear in what it does that people will get the idea of channeling with it pretty quickly.
- Move Tidehunter to Tier 2 as well, hero has a pretty straightforward ultimate that's great for learning about initiation, as well as good survivability.
- Tinker needs to go down to Tier 4, or even arguably Tier 5. It really takes a lot of knowledge to use him properly, and then being able to internalize everything you have to do with him can be a pretty daunting task, probably even up there with microing Meepo.
- Timbersaw can probably go in Tier 3, he's not a terribly difficult hero to learn to play in my opinion, just requires smart management, as any of the heroes in the previous tiers do.
- Visage can seem intimidating, but I think he can go in Tier 4 instead of Tier 5. I mean if Lone Druid is Tier 4, I think surely Visage is. If your argument for it is the weirdness of his spells though (soul charges for Soul Assumption, the layers of Gravekeepers Cloak, micromanaging flying units that could be potentially on opposite sides of the map) then I can see your argument for making him Tier 5.

– Already done 1) at the advice of a friend
– I can definitely see the justification for tidehunter, will move him
– My 2-2.5k friend can play tinker efficiently so thats where I was coming from. I can see him being 4 but nowhere near 5. I think 6.81 tinker is what I was thinking of, this automated process pushing tinker being tier 3. 6.84 post-nerf ganking and killing tinker I can definitely see as 4, now that I think about it.
– I still feel timbersaw is 4
– Lone druid doesn't have two bears with an activate-able ability.

 

[Acinixys]

24 hours in, level 12, just finished main questline in Velen and am now moving to Novigrad

Damn dude

Im 30 hours in and havent even seen half of the Velen map

To many quests and dungeons to explore

 

[Hylian7]

– Already done 1) at the advice of a friend
– I can definitely see the justification for tidehunter, will move him
– My 2-2.5k friend can play tinker efficiently so thats where I was coming from. I can see him being 4 but nowhere near 5. I think 6.81 tinker is what I was thinking of, this automated process pushing tinker being tier 3. 6.84 post-nerf ganking and killing tinker I can definitely see as 4, now that I think about it.
– Lone druid doesn't have two bears with an activate-able ability.

I still think it's important to be good with so many items on Tinker nowadays that he should at least be in a Tier 4 for sure. Scythe is still great on Tinker, no matter when you get it in the game, and efficient Scythe use is pretty make-or-break in games with him.

As for Lone Druid, he doesn't have two things to micro, however the bear is worth 300 gold and bodyblocking with the bear, using Return effectively, as well as items on it (Phase Boots will probably be most common), and other aspects of it are very important for learning to play the hero. I mean a lot of times, if that bear dies and your summon is on cooldown, you're basically useless.

 

[Shuggananas]

Timber is pretty easy imo, tier 4 seems a bit extreme. He's gimmicky, sure, but not hard to play. He also doesn't get many active items until pretty late (mostly tank/mana regen early/mid). Also has no micro.
It's all about landing timberchain and managing your mana while spamming shit

 

[JC Sera]

I still think it's important to be good with so many items on Tinker nowadays that he should at least be in a Tier 4 for sure. Scythe is still great on Tinker, no matter when you get it in the game, and efficient Scythe use is pretty make-or-break in games with him.

As for Lone Druid, he doesn't have two things to micro, however the bear is worth 300 gold and bodyblocking with the bear, using Return effectively, as well as items on it (Phase Boots will probably be most common), and other aspects of it are very important for learning to play the hero. I mean a lot of times, if that bear dies and your summon is on cooldown, you're basically useless.

I agree on tinker and have moved him.
Still don't on Lone Druid being 5 or Visage being 4. I would argue the birds are just important to visage and just as devastating to lose, are internally more complex, give lots of gold also and most importantly are waaaaaaaaaay squishier than the bear.

Timber is pretty easy imo, tier 4 seems a bit extreme. He's gimmicky, sure, but not hard to play. He also doesn't get many active items until pretty late (mostly tank/mana regen early/mid). Also has no micro.
It's all about landing timberchain and managing your mana while spamming shit

Thats 3 people telling me to move him to 3, and seeing as I've never played him(well) I'll reluctantly agree.

 

[JambiBum]

Damn dude

Im 30 hours in and havent even seen half of the Velen map

To many quests and dungeons to explore

Gotta remember that Novigrad is part of Velen. Novigrad is the largest city in the game and is almost a completely different experience than the rest of the map. It's a claustrophobic close quarters type of area compared to the open areas of the rest of the game. Fuck Skellige though, even if it is gorgeous.

 

[Shuggananas]

I agree on tinker and have moved him.
Still don't on Lone Druid being 5 or Visage being 4. I would argue the birds are just important to visage and just as devastating to lose, are internally more complex, give lots of gold also and most importantly are waaaaaaaaaay squishier than the bear.

But lone druid IS the bear. Without the bear you generally have to back because the hero does nothing, most his items are on the bear. The bear is also easily controlled and can be targeted by spells whereas visage birds need to be attacked with auto attacks and can't be controlled. Visage also doesn't need to be close to the birds, the birds can become invulnerable, and if they die visage can still spam soul assumptions and grave chills, it's better than nothing.

Thats 3 people telling me to move him to 3, and seeing as I've never played him(well) I'll reluctantly agree.

He's easy to learn and hard to master, that's 3 to me on a 1-5 scale. 1 would be easy to learn and master, 5 being (very) hard to learn and master (invoker, mapo, etc)

 

[JC Sera]

But lone druid IS the bear. Without the bear you generally have to back because the hero does nothing, most his items are on the bear. The bear is also easily controlled and can be targeted by spells whereas visage birds need to be attacked with auto attacks and can't be controlled. Visage also doesn't need to be close to the birds, the birds can become invulnerable, and if they die visage can still spam soul assumptions and grave chills, it's better than nothing.

hmmmm
For some reason in my head I have visage amongst the most difficult of heroes
while LD can be played by

Spoiler

bulldong

people who can't play meepo/invoker/visage/chen

however I can't think of any particular justification or reason against what you guys are saying

this one is mostly looking like a bias on my part. Should I put LD up to 5? I'm definitely not putting Visage down to 4.

He's easy to learn and hard to master, that's 3 to me on a 1-5 scale. 1 would be easy to learn and master, 5 being (very) hard to learn and master (invoker, mapo, etc)

Ah. Thats not be all and end all of this guide. Heres the labels for the heroes I put in it (tl;dr waring)

Niche (❤&#65038
These are heroes that don’t exactly fit well into the roles carry/support or you have to play them a certain way that may you may find unintuitive or esoteric. Their difficulty stems from you have to learn them essential from the base up and not apply the rules and method of other heroes to them. On the flip side most of these heroes are very interesting, and people find themselves falling in love with their unique play style.

Bungler (✖&#65038
This is a hero that can mess up your teammates’ day. They are usually heroes that have abilities which can change your teammates’ position, or accidentally disable them. They also can have abilities which just backfire on you. For example one bad chronosphere can get your entire team killed and even loose you the game. Avoid these heroes like the plague if you are just starting out.

Highly farm dependant (&#10022
Heroes in this category aren’t necessarily just carries. Some carries are not going to be in this category if they can bounce back pretty easily. The heroes in this category require you to have farming down 100% and absolutely need items to be effective.

Skill Shot (✔&#65038
Heroes in this category have skill shot. However this doesn’t exactly mean new players can’t play them; if you have a good sense of timing and space feel free to try these heroes out. Just try them out in a bot match first.

Micromanagement (&#10070
Some heroes have abilities which allow them to control other units leading to having to manage multiple units. In Dota this is very difficult, micromanagement heroes are considered some of the hardest. They should be the last heroes you try when starting. However people with experience in RTS games like Starcraft & Warcraft may find them not as difficult. Make sure to go into your advanced control setting and set up your group unit controls when attempting these heroes.

Combo/High Skill (&#10033
These heroes have many abilities, and these abilities may be used in several combinations to achieve different affects. Their abilities may also have a high burden of knowledge or insanely quick reflexes to use correctly. Heroes in this category require a very high level of skill and deep understanding of the game from the player. 

 

[ViviOggi]

Warlock and Omni practically play themselves, should be moved down to tier 2 imo, Slardar and Spirit Breaker are very straightforward heroes as well. Lich is babby's first support, ez tier 1.
I'd also consider bumping up Razor to tier 3 due to his unusual kit/playstyle, but he's kind of between 2 and 3 so either works.

^ no way Lone Druid is 5

 

[TUSR]

Warlock and Omni practically play themselves, should be moved down to tier 2 imo, Slardar and Spirit Breaker are very straightforward heroes as well. Lich is babby's first support, ez tier 1.
I'd also consider bumping up Razor to tier 3 due to his unusual kit/playstyle, but he's kind of between 2 and 3 so either works.

^ no way Lone Druid is 5

if inkls can play LD hes more like a 3 right?

 

[JC Sera]

Warlock and Omni practically play themselves, should be moved down to tier 2 imo, Slardar and Spirit Breaker are very straightforward heroes as well. Lich is babby's first support, ez tier 1.
I'd also consider bumping up Razor to tier 3 due to his unusual kit/playstyle, but he's kind of between 2 and 3 so either works.

^ no way Lone Druid is 5

Weirdly in the potato tier slardar is a hero I see people play wrong a lot. Also seeing how dependent he is on his blink with not the best farming potential is what pushed him up.
SB uniqueness and well, ability to easily feed in the wrong hands is why I pushed him up from 2. Definitely will move Lich down. Razor I feel is a really easy hero to learn, but more importantly very forgiving which is why I put him in tier 2.

if inkls can play LD hes more like a 3 right?

 

[ViviOggi]

if inkls can play LD hes more like a 3 right?

 

[inkls]

if inkls can play LD hes more like a 3 right?

 

[TUSR]

xoxo

 

[Sigismundo]

For some reason I can play Meepo and some other micro heroes but I freeze up when I try to play LD (bear's worth shitloads of money so I guess I'm more nervous)

Also I like the colours in that guide. Nicer than just a wall of black text on white background.

(Also Riki is typoed in the Dropbox guide at least and it looks like you forgot Bristleback)

 

[kasane]

id get banned linking a few

We anime

 

[JC Sera]

For some reason I can play Meepo and some other micro heroes but I freeze up when I try to play LD (bear's worth shitloads of money so I guess I'm more nervous)

Also I like the colours in that guide. Nicer than just a wall of black text on white background.

thanks a lot

tbf I like the dotabuff blog's posts. And purges guide is now a white background
Purges guide is now 5x more visually appealing than the original one.

edit: yeah
I misspell his name a lot, bristle added to tier 2

►New Meta

 

[Zeknurn]

This patch is still awful. I'd trade it for 6.83 or 6.82 in a heartbeat.

 

[Bilix]

Heart on Lion? AC in wisp? What's going on in Dota??

What game was the heart lion btw?

 

[Shuggananas]

►New Meta

Well heart on lion actually makes no sense at all tbh :<

AC on wisp is ok I don't see a problem with that

 

[Acinixys]

Well heart on lion actually makes no sense at all tbh :<

AC on wisp is ok I don't see a problem with that

Yeah, why get a heart?

Surely a Sheep/Lotus Orb/Octarine Core etc etc would be infinitely better

 

[Shuggananas]

Even skadi would be more useful on him, I don't see the health regen really being that useful on a lion, while skadi AS/MS slow would be nice, also more mana to spam his shit (and he needs it)
edit : it's this game
no hex, refresher, aghs, carries the gem (bh should have it imo). Am confuse.

 

[JC Sera]

Heart on Lion? AC in wisp? What's going on in Dota??

What game was the heart lion btw?

tongfu vs VG.P game 1
70 minutes long, wonderfully clowny

 

[Acinixys]

These servers suck so much dick

Constant lagging from both the casters and the game its self

 

[Monochromaticx]

Tongfu vgp are both 100% out right?

 

[Shuggananas]

this goddamn PL going stats instead of doppelganger, trashbags everywhere

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Valve made about $40 million with just the compendium.

$10 million for the prize pool.

Great servers.

 

[Acinixys]

This Spectre

3 TPs out when going 1v5

haha

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Qualifiers for the biggest esports tournament in the world handled across the board by a bunch of amateurs.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

I swear to god if Lumi gets to commentate at TI5....

 

[Shuggananas]

zyori + blaze for TI5 finals
we did it boyz, support BTS and remember to bet on vulcun and buy G2A stuff

 

[Monochromaticx]

wingz...

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Specter has no bb because she felt the need to buy a Yasha

Immediately buys Manta after respawning, has no bb again