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DOTA 2 BETA 2 |OT10| Reborn

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G

Glass Shark

Banned
I experienced a shocking moment in a game last night. I randomed and got Phantom Assassin. I decided to keep since she's pretty easy to play, but I don't play carries often so I'm pretty bad at knowing when to farm and how to do it efficiently. So I typed in all chat "sorry, this is tough for me since I don't normally carry"

Instead of flaming me or attacking, a dude on mic said, "hey don't worry, just play it safe and I'll coach you a bit"

is this even dota anymore
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
kvk1 said:
The Dota community is entirely responsible for my late-found love in certain types of pop and electronic music.

I used to be one of those annoying "if it ain't rock, it ain't music" people.

Not anymore, and thank goodness.
Click to expand...

listen to susanne sundfor - ten love songs
DsrA6Kc.gif
DsrA6Kc.gif
 
J

J2d

Member
Strider said:
So since I've only been doing unranked this patch I told myself I'd play support a lot more so I can improve and get a better understanding of how they play. Plus there's abunch of supports I've noteven played a game with yet...

Still picking carries like 95% of the time :/ I'm fuckin up.
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I just pick Necro most of the time, "support? nah I carry" shit goes bad I sit there thinking the real carries fucked up, in my noob mind I can't lose and won't get the same amount of shit if I fail to last hit etc like a pro.
jrh2 said:
Instead of flaming me or attacking, a dude on mic said, "hey don't worry, just play it safe and I'll coach you a bit"

is this even dota anymore
Click to expand...
I had a team mate telling someone to stop bashing me cause everyone is a beginner at some point, I have 1500hours played, I wasn't even mad or ashamed, more relieved.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
J2d said:
I just pick Necro most of the time, "support? nah I carry" shit goes bad I sit there thinking the real carries fucked up, in my noob mind I can't lose and won't get the same amount of shit if I fail to last hit etc like a pro.
Click to expand...

There are people that still think Necro is a support?
 
H

Hylian7

Member
ViviOggi said:
nejFlxh.png
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I was going to post this exactly.

I think this needs to be in the new OP, followed by an explanation.

I'm curious where the support perception comes from though. Is it just "heal = support" to people or what? I mean I guess that one does make sense, as I've seen people say Enchantress is a support (she's not).
 
A

Acinixys

Member
manfestival said:
the dota 2 thread title is so lacking it hurts my face
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DOTA 2 |OT10| Where the fuck are my hats Valve?/5k and under banned from posting about balance!/Is Hylian 4K yet?

horse.gif


Hylian7 said:
I was going to post this exactly.

I think this needs to be in the new OP, followed by an explanation.

I'm curious where the support perception comes from though. Is it just "heal = support" to people or what? I mean I guess that one does make sense, as I've seen people say Enchantress is a support (she's not).
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Its from when every hero had those stupid CARRY/INITIATOR/JINGLER/SUPPORT tags on their portrait

Necro was put as support. So people played him like that
 
H

Hylian7

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hn3WUD_Mv8

I know Lumi doesn't exactly get a lot of love around here, but what do you guys think of this build? It makes sense, but only because of the shit state Huskar is in right now, and has been for patch after patch. He can bully a lane and then he's just not very good after that. At the same time, I dunno, it just feels wrong to run Veil and Dagon on Huskar, someone who's supposed to be a right clicker.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
jrh2 said:
This just seems goofy, but I'm all for any build that doesn't use Armlet. I suck at toggling. :(
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I did Treads, HotD, Silver Edge, and Aghs the other day and felt pretty good about it, but it was a very stompy game, so that may not be the best metric for it.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Hylian7 said:
I was going to post this exactly.

I think this needs to be in the new OP, followed by an explanation.

I'm curious where the support perception comes from though. Is it just "heal = support" to people or what? I mean I guess that one does make sense, as I've seen people say Enchantress is a support (she's not).
Click to expand...

Well, she's a #4 so technically she's a support, a greedy one but a support nonetheless. Like Enigma or Chen.

Can't necro be both? Like a support Naga or PotM that is able to ssemi-carry late game.
 
A

Acinixys

Member
kionedrik said:
Well, she's a #4 so technically she's a support, a greedy one but a support nonetheless. Like Enigma or Chen.

Can't necro be both? Like a support Naga or PotM that is able to ssemi-carry late game.
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I say no

He needs a shit load of farm, because items make him able to do real work

Necro with a mek and a force is a piece of shit
Necro with Aghs + Heart + Refresher + Sheep is a beast that will win you the game after one fight
 
M

Monochromaticx

Member
kionedrik said:
Well, she's a #4 so technically she's a support, a greedy one but a support nonetheless. Like Enigma or Chen.

Can't necro be both? Like a support Naga or PotM that is able to ssemi-carry late game.
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nceo is not a support.

I would even consider enigma and chen ench special cases so they shouldn't be even compared.
A support is a hero who can have an impact with minimum items and levels. naga has the ensnare and potm has arrow. effective from level 1. Necro doesn't really have anything and needs levels and items.



Besides, how many supports have a HEAL?
Lion is a carry because he doesn't have a heal. #flawlesslogic
 
H

Hylian7

Member
kionedrik said:
Well, she's a #4 so technically she's a support, a greedy one but a support nonetheless. Like Enigma or Chen.

Can't necro be both? Like a support Naga or PotM that is able to ssemi-carry late game.
Click to expand...

I would consider more of a core in general, jungling core that has ganking capability, but I think she's more of a 3. Impetus is so good for damage, ESPECIALLY with Aghs and now that it goes through BKB at all times.

I'm just gonna leave this here again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zmTT_b3eks

Upheaval is legit and set that whole thing up.
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
Hylian7 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hn3WUD_Mv8

I know Lumi doesn't exactly get a lot of love around here, but what do you guys think of this build? It makes sense, but only because of the shit state Huskar is in right now, and has been for patch after patch. He can bully a lane and then he's just not very good after that. At the same time, I dunno, it just feels wrong to run Veil and Dagon on Huskar, someone who's supposed to be a right clicker.
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Considering it's intended as a parody video (of slasher), it ain't even the worst hsit since veil has actually some decent sinergy with the hero (armor, hp regen, damage amp for his orb and ult), but it cost way too much for that. Dagon especially ain't worth it at all.

If you don't want to go armlet, get aghs bkb AC to be a slowing mass nuking machine who also has actually enough mana to megaheal his allies (his heal is broken if casted on a good hero tbh). 4 sec cd nuke that deal 1k+ damage ain't also no joke. Your right click will suck but who care since too many things counter u already.

The problem with huskar, (tusk even more), is that you desperately need to have more levels than your opponent since ur skillset put you in the middle of the fight, and later on jumping is often straight suicide unless you're massively overfarmed since most heroes don't die from a jump (ghost or blademail or forcestaffs or whatever) and you will die from being in the middle of the enemy team.

I love huskar but currently he's good only as a farmer and against a team that don't massively counter it with pure damage/physical nukes. Possibly viable in a tri-core lineup as a mek carrier that peak early (with mek + armlet + phase), but then it's harder to transition to late since he don't have good farming skills tbh.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Acinixys said:
Necro with a mek and a force is a piece of shit
Necro with Aghs + Heart + Refresher + Sheep is a beast that will win you the game after one fight
Click to expand...

I understand your point but that's a rather extreme example don't you think. It's true to any hero in the game carry or support.

I don't like to think of him as a support but he can do the role.

Monochromaticx said:
Besides, how many supports have a HEAL?
Lion is a carry because he doesn't have a heal. #flawlesslogic
Click to expand...

I don't get that "Has a heal hence is a support" logic and I never supported it. Also he has lane presence and is strong from the get-go. He can be a lane buddy to a farmer with 1 level in heartstop aura and he'll be a bitch to whoever is laning against him, and let's not count the heal as a minor skill, even at level 1.


Edit: All of this reasoning is purely from a pub point-of-view. There's no way he can be played as a support in competitive.


Hylian7 said:
I would consider more of a core in general, jungling core that has ganking capability, but I think she's more of a 3. Impetus is so good for damage, ESPECIALLY with Aghs and now that it goes through BKB at all times.
Click to expand...

There's countless real supports with ultis that do massive damage, with or without aghs, that can easily get a rampage or ultra in any team-fight (WD, Lion, CM, etc). That doesn't invalidate the fact that they are supports.

I'll agree with you that she might be a special case, or something outside the norm. There's a lot of examples of heroes like her: Chen, Enigma, WL, Visage...
 
H

Hylian7

Member
kionedrik said:
I understand your point but that's a rather extreme example don't you think. It's true to any hero in the game carry or support.

I don't like to think of him as a support but he can do the role.



I don't get that "Has a heal hence is a support" logic and I never supported it. Also he has lane presence and is strong from the get-go. He can be a lane buddy to a farmer with 1 level in heartstop aura and he'll be a bitch to whoever is laning against him, and let's not count the heal as a minor skill, even at level 1.



There's countless real supports with ultis that do massive damage, with or without aghs, that can easily get a rampage or ultra in any team-fight (WD, Lion, CM, etc). That doesn't invalidate the fact that they are supports.

I'll agree with you that she might be a special case, or something outside the norm. There's a lot of examples of heroes like her: Chen, Enigma, WL, Visage...
Click to expand...

Heartstopper Aura is basically stopped flat by enough passive regen, be it Ring of Health or Dragon Blood or something.

Sure, but Enchantress is a special case because with her skillset, she scales so uniquely.

She has a passive that keeps herself from getting right clicked much.

A heal to sustain herself, and her team as necessary.

A slow or creep convert to use as needed. The slow is really strong and might be an argument for her as support, but I would still rather get carrying items on her as it's more useful. That or get Necrobook and push.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
When I played Warlock for the first time, Upheaval was widely considered shit. I think the first build guide I used didn't even put a point in it and went for stats instead, it used to be all about the bonds + golem. Now I hear that people prioritise Shadow Word and Upheaval over bonds.

What's the current recommended build for Warlock? I really like the hero but I'm unsure on how to skill him these days.

edit: might as well ask about items, I used to go arcanes -> aghs -> refresher (with a bracer or urn inbetween when I felt too squishy)


edit²: is there a way to load and select guides before a match starts (i.e. the Dota 2 menu or something?) I feel like many of the guides I use are outdated, but with the new focus on covering runes etc I rarely feel like I get the chance to choose one I like. I guess I could do it in an empty lobby...
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Hylian7 said:
Heartstopper Aura is basically stopped flat by enough passive regen, be it Ring of Health or Dragon Blood or something.

Sure, but Enchantress is a special case because with her skillset, she scales so uniquely.

She has a passive that keeps herself from getting right clicked much.

A heal to sustain herself, and her team as necessary.

A slow or creep convert to use as needed. The slow is really strong and might be an argument for her as support, but I would still rather get carrying items on her as it's more useful. That or get Necrobook and push.
Click to expand...


Fair enough. To me she'll be one of those cases that proves the point "Just because you can doesn't mean you should". Just like Abaddon.
 
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