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Dota 2 |OT2| Ellen Pudge starring in Beyond Two Throws
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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jaundicejuice
Member
I wished the match making ranks and how their match-making system worked was transparent. Like it's all well and good to try and just focus on your own play, try to do what you can to improve but I wanna know why I get paired up with some of the people I do. Some games it feels like mid or high rank, good picks, everyone is friendly, seems to know what they're doing, the next four games it's terrible picks, no coordination, no teamwork, swearing in many languages, spam pings galore, someone is having a bad game so your must report them!
Why would you have a 20 game streak? Every time you win your rating goes up so you get a chance to play against better players, the opposite is true for when you lose. That's "rigged" to not be completely random.
One thing I have learned online is that even among skilled players you can have bad games. When one team is steam rolling the other you think the other team is bad but really they might have lost at the picks or maybe got unlucky in a few engagements which led to snowballing. People who are good don't like losing and when they get put into that position they might default to blame game and swearing. Its always the games you win where there is the least swearing.
Can't do anything about different language though. And as far as bad picks go some players are stubborn with their picks if they have made up their mind to play a particular hero they won't look at the composition. The game doesn't MM based on player knowledge or hero picks, it bases it on wins against other playeds based on their internal MM rating.
Can't do anything about different language though. And as far as bad picks go some players are stubborn with their picks if they have made up their mind to play a particular hero they won't look at the composition. The game doesn't MM based on player knowledge or hero picks, it bases it on wins against other playeds based on their internal MM rating.
I'm talking about the quality of players on your team. That's most definitely rigged. Why couldn't someone have a 20 game streak? Because eventually the game will give them bad players to work with.
I don't know about a 20 game streak but 13 game streak (win or lose) is not uncommon. I am sure someone has had a streak that long though.
As long as your win percentage is somewhere between 40-60% the MM is doing its job right. When you start getting win streaks you might break a threshold where you are matched up with high skilled players and thus start losing.
If someone is winning all the time it means that they are matched against lower skilled players. If they are matched against equal skilled players then their win percentage will be around 50%.
Sometimes people just have a bad game. Sometimes people are being held to unreasonably high standard when they had an unwinnable lane. Sometimes you're just feeding and looking to pass the blame to everyone else.
I went from about -18 to almost -40 in a week because the game thinks it's funny to match up people who have lost a bunch with other people who can't win and it puts you up against a bunch of people who do win. It intentionally put me out of bracket for more than 20 games in a row.
Then it decides to put all good players on my team for 10 or 12 games and give me 80% easy opponents. Now it's mostly back to what happened before: bad teammates.
Statistically, no it's not doing its job right. It makes things either too easy or way, way too difficult to the point that your skill or pick has nothing to do with your loss. The good games with are extremely rare.
But that doesn't happen over and over and over, game after game after game, time and again without a long series of intentional movements by another force.
My post patch winrate was about 32% until my win streak. When the patch hit, I won about 17 of 52 games. Streak of bad luck? Probably not.
Mb he queued with you for that 20 games win streak since U are autowin then he queued with me next? That'd rig the mm for sure.
yawn, forests of caldavar has had halloween trappings for like a week
a game that hosts world championships in an empty basketball gym has its shit together better than volvo
It's a wacky game. Our team needed Tide, but the second to last pick refused to get him, saying he didn't like how he played. So he picks Troll, and feeds like it's his occupation. Most of the time he was attacking up close in ranged mode, and his item build was just a bunch of 'what the hell are you doing.' If he had played exactly the same but had ravage we probably would have won that game.
This reminds of the game we where we had both AA and Veno and the Veno says: "We'll lose this game. We have no real supports." I was like: "Veno is a support" and he answers: "Veno can also be a carry". Maybe you shouldn't play carry Veno when we already have carries and you feel like we have no "real" supports oO
shira
Member
Just pick a carry support like WD. EZ
LITERALLY UNKILLABLE
LITERALLY UNKILLABLE
I've been having a positive experience so far.
I have 100% win ratio after patch, 55% of the time
So after having a few really successful Meepo games today I've noticed a few interesting things.
1. There are basically two schools of thought on how to play Meepo once you get your second Meepo. One is send the other guy to farm the easy camp while stacking other ones, and the other is to gank with it, because you have good Michael skills. I would definitely say the latter is better. I was consistently able to easily get my Aghanim's Scepter by 15-16 minutes by ganking with the other Meepo. I also tried the trick Sixghost suggested of not taking the skill until you land a net on someone in your lane. That also worked wonders.
2. Aggressive Meepo is best Meepo. When I used to play Meepo a lot, I would have problems of the guy in the jungle always being an easy target to kill. It doesn't have to be that way. Now I'm not sure if it was entirely the buff that makes this more viable (getting second Meepo at 4 instead of 6), but it sure as hell helps. I had the other one go to lanes to gank and help with ganks from the mid. It worked out extremely well. In addition, I was able to be much more aggressive in lane, which was definitely thanks to the buff. It makes laning Meepo a lot less "just don't completely lose the game before you hit 6" and more of "you are like any other carry laning". It's amazing.
3. Enemy junglers are such an easy target for Meepo, because you lose no lane experience or farm by sending the other Meepo at 4 to gank them. By this time in the game, an enemy jungler is usually low health, low mana, vulnerable to ganks just because of what hero they are, or all of the above. They probably are not prepared to deal with two little rats popping in on him with a net. And then when you're done you just have the main one TP back to your lane and resume your gank patrol with Meepo #2. Throw in a Bloodseeker on your team for added fun with enemy junglers.
4. The new Tranquils on Meepo are still extremely legit. Even though you will be last hitting with the main one, the roam time for the alternate ones will get their health up extremely quickly. Even if you are bullied out of the lane on your main one, you are regenerating your health while you aren't farming, so you aren't just stuck there with no health. I like to get them, and then sell them for Treads after I finish Aghanim's Scepter.
5. Despite the removal of the 30% stat sharing, Meepo is STILL extremely strong in ganking even before he gets Aghanim's Scepter.
That level 4 second Meepo makes a world of difference though. I do wonder if before 6.79 if I tried being more aggressive with it, would it have been successful? I feel like Meepo games now are more spent wrecking the other team than trying to farm and hoping the other team doesn't murder me.
Edit: Oh, and I beat my highest XPM on Meepo:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/363112810
1. There are basically two schools of thought on how to play Meepo once you get your second Meepo. One is send the other guy to farm the easy camp while stacking other ones, and the other is to gank with it, because you have good Michael skills. I would definitely say the latter is better. I was consistently able to easily get my Aghanim's Scepter by 15-16 minutes by ganking with the other Meepo. I also tried the trick Sixghost suggested of not taking the skill until you land a net on someone in your lane. That also worked wonders.
2. Aggressive Meepo is best Meepo. When I used to play Meepo a lot, I would have problems of the guy in the jungle always being an easy target to kill. It doesn't have to be that way. Now I'm not sure if it was entirely the buff that makes this more viable (getting second Meepo at 4 instead of 6), but it sure as hell helps. I had the other one go to lanes to gank and help with ganks from the mid. It worked out extremely well. In addition, I was able to be much more aggressive in lane, which was definitely thanks to the buff. It makes laning Meepo a lot less "just don't completely lose the game before you hit 6" and more of "you are like any other carry laning". It's amazing.
3. Enemy junglers are such an easy target for Meepo, because you lose no lane experience or farm by sending the other Meepo at 4 to gank them. By this time in the game, an enemy jungler is usually low health, low mana, vulnerable to ganks just because of what hero they are, or all of the above. They probably are not prepared to deal with two little rats popping in on him with a net. And then when you're done you just have the main one TP back to your lane and resume your gank patrol with Meepo #2. Throw in a Bloodseeker on your team for added fun with enemy junglers.
4. The new Tranquils on Meepo are still extremely legit. Even though you will be last hitting with the main one, the roam time for the alternate ones will get their health up extremely quickly. Even if you are bullied out of the lane on your main one, you are regenerating your health while you aren't farming, so you aren't just stuck there with no health. I like to get them, and then sell them for Treads after I finish Aghanim's Scepter.
5. Despite the removal of the 30% stat sharing, Meepo is STILL extremely strong in ganking even before he gets Aghanim's Scepter.
That level 4 second Meepo makes a world of difference though. I do wonder if before 6.79 if I tried being more aggressive with it, would it have been successful? I feel like Meepo games now are more spent wrecking the other team than trying to farm and hoping the other team doesn't murder me.
Edit: Oh, and I beat my highest XPM on Meepo:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/363112810
Damn you cracked the code.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Who got overbuffed? I really don't see any and with the demise of pubstars Spirit Breaker and Huskar, there are no ez pubstompers around either. Sure, Veno, Lich and DP are pretty strong in pubs at the moment but hardly impossible to deal with.
Bloodcyka still trash and Broodmother is not exactly lighting pubs up either, is she?
6.79 is the most balanced, most dynamic and most fun patch I've seen so far. Really enjoying the game more than before. I feared that Icefrog took some depth out of the game with killing trilanes (pull throughs are fairly rare below VH bracket), making jungling hard for non-dedicated junglers and so forth but fuck that, I'm having a great time. Being in the safe lane doesn't grant free farm against a solo offlaner, instead you actually have to deal with the dual lane you are confronted with. That just makes the early game that much less stale, it's a fantastic change and I'll never look back.
Bloodcyka still trash and Broodmother is not exactly lighting pubs up either, is she?
6.79 is the most balanced, most dynamic and most fun patch I've seen so far. Really enjoying the game more than before. I feared that Icefrog took some depth out of the game with killing trilanes (pull throughs are fairly rare below VH bracket), making jungling hard for non-dedicated junglers and so forth but fuck that, I'm having a great time. Being in the safe lane doesn't grant free farm against a solo offlaner, instead you actually have to deal with the dual lane you are confronted with. That just makes the early game that much less stale, it's a fantastic change and I'll never look back.
It's actually really not fair to expect the last to picks to be the ones who has to fill to gap in the team composition while the other only choosed to pick whatever they wanted.
Ofcourse it's fair. If you don't want to do that than either mm with a stack or don't play modes like sd/rd and don't pick last in AP.
If everyone picks and you are the last pick and you need a specific role (mostly support), than sorry but just take it like a man.
When you play with friends you can just discuss this kind of stuff and lock down heroes for other people who have last pick or something.
But when getting teamed up with randoms you can't expect people to lock a hero for you just because you have last pick.
You can ask, and some will oblige but don't count on it.
I've been playing Dota for almost a year now and it's the most balanced I've seen it. Death Prophet can be annoying, but nothing really seems to stomp pubs any more. SB is trash now though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Depends on the mode. If I'm one of the first two or three picks in Random Draft I can't really pick based on what anyone else has picked, on the ally or enemy side. Its actually really frustrating and I swear in RD consistently I've had first or second pick almost constantly for like two weeks in a row now
I was the one who said he should pick whatever hero he's good with, but he wasn't good with Troll at all. If he asked for help or said something about being a new player, then the rest of the team would have helped him out. Instead, we played him mid and had a really rough start because of it.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I guess, but what the hell are you supposed to do? Nobody makes a goddamn pick until thirty seconds after the game starts. I always try to wait so that I can be the one to fill in the team gaps, but people make it impossible. So after the game starts I make my pick, and a minute after the creeps spawn the rest of the team makes their ridiculous picks.
I'm mostly thinking of AP; where most people will do the first 2-3 pick ( or even random them ) without any consideration of their teammate ( hey guys there is a chat ), until the last pick ( or last two pick ) where they wake up, ask other people to play whatever role fit, and complain if it isn't done.
If they care that much about having a balanced team they can : 1/ begin the talking before doing their own pick 2/ choose to be the last pick themselves ( thought it can be hard -yet I do it in most of my game- because so many people pick when the creep already spawned, which like I said yesterday, shouldn't even be allowed ).
Now random draft is really something else since it's not people choice to be first/last pick, so yeah I guess it's kind of the exception.
The all pick Problem:
Pick something you want to play: Get counter picked
Wait to pick: Be forced into a role you may not be comfortable with
I really dont like being conter picked. The other day I wanted to try the new Brood, but then the other team picked Spirit Breaker. Most of the time I wait late before picking which means I usually play support.
Pick something you want to play: Get counter picked
Wait to pick: Be forced into a role you may not be comfortable with
I really dont like being conter picked. The other day I wanted to try the new Brood, but then the other team picked Spirit Breaker. Most of the time I wait late before picking which means I usually play support.
L2Rand0m4L1fe
You can't random in those, your statement is factually wrong.
Randoming is for people who don't have the guts to choose and stand by their choice.
;-)
I wonder why Valve is always so late with their Halloween stuff. It always lasts 2 weeks but starts right before/on Halloween and then lasts 2 weeks after Halloween is already over.. why not start a bit before Halloween..
Also, watching Korean stream now, wondering if heroes take so long now because they also need to do Korean/Chinese voice acting to add for the new heroes?
Also, watching Korean stream now, wondering if heroes take so long now because they also need to do Korean/Chinese voice acting to add for the new heroes?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I certainly agree with you. But the problem isn't only in AP, it's also in Single Draft (also not a great mode) and Least Played which I actually like.
The thing is; All of the modes are great when you are playing with a stack and have some form of communication.
If you don't or you just want to solo queue: RD/CD is the mode where I have encountered the least amount of problems (sure sometimes someone is afk during RD picking or the guy who is the teamcaptain sucks at drafting) but it's less common than the "let's wait till the creeps spawn to pick" or "you're last pick so pick a support.
And all random can be good if you don't end up with a 5 carries/support team.
Real talk!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Just another reason why All Pick sucks ass
That said I think Single Draft is the only mode where I've consistently had bad experiences even with a five stack. Its just too easy for, like happened the other day, the enemy to get three stompy heroes that require different techniques to handle (in our case it was Warlock, Spirit Breaker and Lancer) and not give your team the tools necessary to even handle one of them.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Just another reason why All Pick sucks ass
That said I think Single Draft is the only mode where I've consistently had bad experiences even with a five stack. Its just too easy for, like happened the other day, the enemy to get three stompy heroes that require different techniques to handle (in our case it was Warlock, Spirit Breaker and Lancer) and not give your team the tools necessary to even handle one of them.
When I first started playing (after a brief All Pick phase) I was SD all the time. Now I see that it's a pretty bad mode.
What I don't get is why it makes its distinctions based on primary attribute rather than hero role. I can't tell you how many times I'm the last to pick, my team has 3 or 4 carries already, and my choices are 3 hard carries. The three should be guaranteed to contain at least 1 support and 1 carry IMO.
Captain's Draft works the same way but it's less of a problem with a larger hero pool.
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