Pureauthor
Member
Why do you people play game modes whose draw is their random nature and expect good team comps?
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Dota 2 |OT2| Ellen Pudge starring in Beyond Two Throws
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This perhaps applies to All Random, but really the main reason I play Random Draft almost exclusively unless I'm in a stack is that
a.)not giving us the whole pool of heroes means that maybe, just maybe, there will be some variety in compositions instead of seeing Lancer, Sniper, Warlock, and whatever stompy heros of the patch people people are currently instalocking every single goddamn game
b.)the forced alternating picks mean that no-one can wait until right before the horn to lock in a fourth carry and the people picking get increasingly more information both about what their allies and their enemies have instead of basically having to guess
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
RD you can still get assholes who have last pick and get something that fucks up your team comp. At least it's clear who to blame in those cases.
But yeah SD - I like it in theory, but in practice it doesn't seem very balanced. For one, it should be completely transparent what choices your teammates all have, so you can more easily make informed decisions. And secondly, it would be real nice if you could swap. Maybe that changes the spirit of it too much that you'd have to create a whole new mode to accommodate, but idk.
Another thing that might be cool would be a "double draft" where you get 6 choices. But that's probably pointless since pretty much the whole pool is open at that point.
But yeah SD - I like it in theory, but in practice it doesn't seem very balanced. For one, it should be completely transparent what choices your teammates all have, so you can more easily make informed decisions. And secondly, it would be real nice if you could swap. Maybe that changes the spirit of it too much that you'd have to create a whole new mode to accommodate, but idk.
Another thing that might be cool would be a "double draft" where you get 6 choices. But that's probably pointless since pretty much the whole pool is open at that point.
Imp the Dimp
Member
What is it with "Sniper" and "stompy hero" being mentioned in the same sentence? When's the last time you guys have seen a Sniper not feed?
SteveWinwood
Member
I don't even remember the last time I've seen him, let alone do well.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Any game in which the enemy team doesn't go hyper-aggressive to stunt his early game. Same with PL really. Whatever tier I'm currently at people almost universally don't seem to want to make things happen and get mobile before the twenty minute mark or so, which is too late to accelerate properly to counter PL's rising tide push or Sniper's annoying as fuck "stand outside the battle taking off one fifth of someone's health with each attack and headshotting anyone who tries to run away"
In the last six months or so the only times I can recall beating Lancer are games where we had all T2s by 20 minutes or so. Anything slower then that (whether due to lineup or team temperament) and you're going to be essentially playing hoarde mode at the 40 minute mark seeing how long it takes you until you lose
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Phase are best boots for Sniper.
While it was totally our fault for letting the game go long, losing against new brood and NP just isn't fun. I can respect getting blown out by good team fights, but getting slowly devoured by near unkillable split pushers is just boring. Learn to gank I know, but just a small vent.
Also I could not be worse with OD. When do you astral? Without fail my teammates are upset with my astrals.
Also I could not be worse with OD. When do you astral? Without fail my teammates are upset with my astrals.
Pureauthor
Member
Astral to remove a threat from the fight just as it's about to begin, and astral to trap someone trying to escape after the fight.
DON'T astral someone who has good escaping abilities cooling down when chasing because you usually make it easier for him to wait out the cooldown and run away even faster.
I still have nightmares from TI2, what a boring hero to spectate
Lost another game as Invoker which sucks. But I think I am finally getting the hang of him. I went 14-6 and it was satisfying as shit when I got a triple kill in one particular team fight where I casted 6 of my spells in succession. His team fight potential in late game is incredible.
Early game is always tough for me though. I had one game where I died three times in mid against Pudge in under 10 mins. I'm not sure at all how to deal with the Hook and Rot combo. Any tips?
Early game is always tough for me though. I had one game where I died three times in mid against Pudge in under 10 mins. I'm not sure at all how to deal with the Hook and Rot combo. Any tips?
Shouldn't they actually LIKE it in that case? Well not that you'd ever say that i suppose.
Buy boots as soon as you have gold and keep ice wall and cold snap always ready.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
To be fair I wasn't around at that time, but what's so boring about spectating him? He's fun as hell to play.
Adding to that, when a clash is about to happen, don't astral the one slightly out of position enemy your team was just about to instagib with a few disables resulting in an advantage for your team. Astral there and you'll essentially save that enemy even if he doesn't have any escape mechanism just by giving their team four seconds to react.
Just like with disruption you'll have to always keep in mind that astral is not a stun.
Don't get hooked. Someone posted a picture guide a few pages back, the most important parts are moving unpredictably and not in a straight line as well as always keeping creeps between your hero and Pudge.
As for escaping after getting hooked if he's too slow to link into Dismember or isn't 6 yet tornado, ice wall and cold snap are your best bets.
I find him fun too but he's boring in that he just farms all day and just is very hard to kill. He's sort of like a Weaver in that regard.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Don't get hooked? Pudge loses mid to basically anybody unless he hooks you.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I mean, you could make that argument about any hard carry I would think. And Morphling I feel requires a fair bit less farm to be monstrous than a carry like Anti-Mage, who is certainly the pinnacle of boring to watch.
Thanks guys but I understand the basics of avoiding hook by positioning creeps between myself and him and such, but this was a pretty good Pudge. Maybe I was a bit too aggressive in harrassing him when he tried to lh. Also, I keep forgetting about ice wall which is stupid of me.
Dreams-Visions
Member
No, they're the ONLY boots for Sniper.
Well yeah but that's it basically, you get hooked you die. The harassment provided by cold snack alone should win you the lane though, the matchup is highly in your favor.
A lot of the way that people play Morphling or an Anti Mage is that once the mid game starts, they basically just go to a lane, push the lane then Wave Form/Blink into the trees and TP to the next spot to the farm. This is basically called "rat dota" which people hate. Morphling also has his ulti to escape in case things get rough plus his stats morphing ability.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Ha, honestly the best Snipers I've played with or against get some mobility items first, like Phase Boots/Yasha.
You'd think most people knew how important positioning is for Sniper, but most rush Shadow Blade.
Imp the Dimp
Member
He outplayed you then and was likely a higher ELO player. It's not the combo that killed you.
shira
Member
u played against ellen pudge sniper?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Yeah, I could see how Morph could be played similar to AM in that regard, which I agree is boring.
Pureauthor
Member
That's not ratdota. Ratdota is something the entire team plays where they essentially refuse to engage in any battles while amassing farm or pushing buildings. Hence the 'rat' term of them scurrying around and not being caught out.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
First point on Venomous Gale if you have a good lane partners or teammates for first blood, otherwise stick to poison sting for the harass. Get a point on each skill by levels three, then max Gale first, then Poison Sting.
Veno has versatil builds, so go by your team needs or if your carry is doing like shit, you can go for a semi-carry build. He's mostly a support, however.
That's exactly what I described the Morphling to be doing.
Thank you. I think my issue is that I am too quick to astral someone running away instead of just letting my team blow them up. I always worry with someone like SB that if I wait he will charge but if I astral it gives time for his charge to come off cooldown. I always end up going like 16-7 with OD but feeling like I lost the game for our team.
Pureauthor
Member
You missed out the
part in my quote I see.
Otherwise it's a Hard Carry doing what a Hard Carry does. Except that's bad Morphling play as Morphling has good nuking power and survivability even early in the game so he can and should contribute to fights.
Careful with generalizations like "people hate." I certainly don't hate it, it brings flavor to the game. One of my biggest gripes with 6.79 thus far is that the meta has swung way into the direction of deathball (we'll see how the meta evolves but for now it's been, 10-15 min mark, 5 man deathball lane after lane). 6.78 had the perfect balance between deathball and split push strategies, just look at that amazing finale--Navi went for a deathball lineup and just barely lost the game to a split push lineup because of their own mistakes and the other teams' capitalizing on errors. That game really highlighted the diversity of dota strategies/drafts.
Some heroes (brood, lycan, NP, AM, etc...) are designed to be great split pushers/annoying thorns at the cost of being relatively weak teamfight heroes (unless they are way overfarmed). That's what makes dota great. Not every hero is nighstalker/spiritbreaker 420yoloblazeit dive dive dive fight fight fight deeeeeeeeeeeathballlllllllllllllllll dat shizz. Hell, spiritbreaker is the ultimate rat dota destroyer and is the poster boy for the active/teamfight side of dota and everyone hated him for it.
Sometimes teams do this with Morphling as well ie. what Dignitas is famous for. Hell they still picked Morphling in 6.78 and still continued to play rat Dota. I guess Morphling has been associated with that style of play.
Honestly speaking Morphling gets hate because he was picked a shit ton. It's like the people who used to hate on Invoker when he's one of the best heroes in the game.
And yes when I say "people hate" I obviously don't mean everyone. I am talking about just the people who hate. I don't hate Morphling or rat dota for the record.
NS isn't a deathball hero, his team presence is low. He is an all in gank hero and that's why he's godlike.
Unless you and I have a different definition of a death ball. When I think of death ball I think of a Chen amassing his army and pushing down middle or a Dragon Knight or a Death Prophet.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I think this is 100 percent right, and when playing in a 5-stack (or a solo-queue with good communication), combating these tactics is actually a lot of fun. I think they are largely unpopular because they can be so frustrating when not countered appropriately. 5-man deathball can be out team-fought which is much easier for a team with poor communication.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Yeah if anything split-push/turtle teams aren't nearly as viable in 6.79 compared to early push/deathball. The game feels less balanced in that respect right now, though it's too early to say for sure.
shira
Member
Genuine Tide hunter blink dagger -how to get revealed
http://i.imgur.com/gxNJXe8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gxNJXe8.jpg
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
They should get some of those Japanese companies to make the figures.
Sigismundo
Member
How much are Heroclix usually?
I could be completely wrong, but why would you ever max gale first? The point of gale is to secure a kill through its slow - its damage is the only thing that increases with each level, and that's incredibly minimal. One point in it is all you really need for a while. Leveling poison sting or wards is much more useful, whichever you pick depending on how the game goes.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Minimal? Damage increases 25/200/375/550.
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