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[The Technomancer]

Outside of some nerfs to DK, veno, Bristle and DP, this patch doesn't do a whole lot to combat the 5 man deathball push squad. I think maybe towers should be buffed? Extra Armor or HP?

Oh good, its not just me who's noticed the popularity of the deathball strat lately. Its really frustrating, since it seems like it so easily snowballs off of one bad 5v2 gank into losing multiple towers in a handful of minutes

 

[Drkirby]

Aftershock plus quill spray

I really think there will be limits on this, some combos would be absurd

Well, for one, it seems you will only be able to use abilities from the heroes that are randomed, and not have access to all of them. There is some sort of drafting mechanic, so you can try and make sure the enemy doesn't get anything too good.

I wonder how Valve is going to balance around speed and making it so one team doesn't get all the "good" abilities

 

[Telephoto999]

wat

What do you mean "wat"

The average match I've had over the past week, 40+ games has been 35-40 minutes. This includes all the times the game is completely over when we get our first rax dropped, but idiot random pub team decides to mercilessly defend the ancient for twenty minutes dragging the match out even longer.

I'm not really for a concede option... but I think an option to concede , something in the lower left that everyone on your team has to select would be a great option to appear after you lose a rax.

 

[inkls]

I would rather matches be longer and more based around good team fights and clever ganks than short and based around unstoppable tower stomps.

What? Ever wonder why some heroes are described as anti-push? Ever heard of shadow demon, veno, kotl, Earthshaker, dark seer, alchemist, dazzle?

 

[Quesa]

Yeah and some things just won't work.

Like, can I multicast fissures? How do quas/wex/exort and invoke play into this? Surely we're limited to one ulti?

I would hope so. Otherwise Thundergod's wrath/Rearm or Global Silence/Rearm will be in effect.

 

[traveler]

Rearm + Devour + Greevil's Greed + gambler's ult

 

[Skab]

Bristleback (skill) + Craggy Exterior + Corrosive Skin

 

[Pratfall]

What? Ever wonder why some heroes are described as anti-push? Ever heard of shadow demon, veno, kotl, Earthshaker, dark seer, alchemist, dazzle?

I'm certainly not saying there aren't heroes that can counter this strat, or that all push line-ups immediately win or anything. I'm just saying that the 5-man, group up, kill a tower, tp, kill a tower, is very popular right now and it mostly leads to a snowball stomp. I just think making the initial towers harder to take would make this strategy more of a hard choice rather than a default win condition. I'm strictly talking 3K MMR here so like, disregard my opinion as needed.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Silencer will have a pretty substantial bonus in this mode, having an innate ability

 

[inkls]

I'm certainly not saying there are heroes that can't counter this strat, or that all push line-ups immediately win or anything. I'm just saying that the 5-man, group up, kill a tower, tp, kill a tower, is very popular right now and it mostly leads to a snowball stomp. I just think making the initial towers harder to take would make this strategy more of a hard choice rather than a default win condition. I'm strictly talking 3K MMR here so like, disregard my opinion as needed.

Yes and? Thats why I pointed you towards heroes that counter that strat. Buffing towers hp will only make the game longer for the team who doesn't have any pushing power.

 

[traveler]

So if rp/ravage/bh/etc. are on the table alongside am blink, do you take the blink and just resign yourself to knowing it will be good with whatever your second pick is or do you hope to miraculously wheel the blink and go for the big ulti?

Silencer will have a pretty substantial bonus in this mode, having an innate ability

Yeah, just need to get Astral + Slark Passive + sanity's eclipse on him

 

[KingKong]

multicast Zeus ult

 

[Pratfall]

Yes and? Thats why I pointed you towards heroes that counter that strat. Buffing towers hp will only make the game longer for the team who doesn't have any pushing power.

K, I am probably wrong.

 

[Drkirby]

Silencer will have a pretty substantial bonus in this mode, having an innate ability

I do wonder how they are going to handle that stuff, I think there is just going to be a pool of heroes who are barred from the mode, like Meepo, Earth Spirit, and Invoker (Divide We Stand is stupidly buggy). Rubick may be trouble too, but Spell Steal should be easier to set up on other heroes with the source code in front of you.

For Silencer, they could make the innate tied to having Glaves as a spell. Also, I'm hoping you will be able to get all 3 razes if you get Shadow Fiend in the draft. Also, any ability that is scales off anther ability will just have to change, but I bet it will be like Wraith Night and Valve will just change the ability flat out to not be reliant on anther spell.

 

[ElyrionX]

More Sniper pickers incoming. Good job, icefraud.

 

[fallagin]

Meepo got a pretty good buff. Level 3 ult and death clock reduction with it is kind of awesome.

 

[Drkirby]

I also love how Veil of Discord keeps getting buffed, Ice Frog may just have to start cutting the recipe cost to make people buy the thing and get people in the habit of buying it. And Shadow Amulet should have started at a 1.5 Second Fade time delay, I don't know what Ice Frog was thinking when he started it at 2.75 seconds.

 

[Anbokr]

K, I am probably wrong.

Na you aren't flatly wrong, that's the thing about dota, it's all guess-work and opinions, there isn't a single definitive judgement.

I agree with you, I think 5 man deathball push is too strong in 6.79 and it's the "thing" from the lowest tiers all the way to competitive. Heroes like SD, KOTL, and DS simply don't cut it anymore because these 5 man push drafts will co-opt powerful team-fight and control heroes, and simply roll your team in a tower dive with a quick mek before bulldozing down a tier 1 and tier 2. This starts around 8 minutes in, you can have most t2's down by 20 minutes, and by then your team is way overfarmed compared to the enemy and taking t3's isn't too difficult. Can even slow siege as you farm the entire map. In my experience, it's by far one of the easier strats to execute and the easiest way to score ranked wins when drafting.

The Chinese pretty much figured this out and it's why they had a pretty strong showing at D2L. I think the only way to deal with these teams and heroes (stuff like pugna, veno, visage, dk, shadow shaman, etc... it's not a problem with individual heroes but when you put rather when you put these guys together) is to pick your own push/team-fight oriented line-up and anticipate and ban around theirs. I generally first ban pugna in ranked because I really don't want to deal with that shit.

However, 6.80 seems to take down a few of these problematic supports that enabled such early deathball (veno, CM, visage most notably). Plus Roshan is considerably more difficult and these lineups would gain an even greater advantage over you by taking a very quick and early roshan after your t2's. We'll see what happens, I think we'll see a return of the AoE meta around heroes like Magnus. Lots of ultis got buffed and AoE's in general, not to mention that gigantic blink buff.

 

[Gav47]

So every new hero from now on will launch with an arcana?

 

[The Technomancer]

Na you aren't flatly wrong, that's the thing about dota, it's all guess-work and opinions, there isn't a single definitive judgement.

I agree with you, 5 man deathball push is too strong in 6.79 and it's the "thing" from the lowest tiers all the way to competitive. Heroes like SD, KOTL, and DS simply don't cut it anymore because these 5 man push drafts will co-opt powerful team-fight and control heroes, and simply roll your team in a tower dive with a quick mek before bulldozing down a tier 1 and tier 2. This starts around 8 minutes in, you can have most t2's down by 20 minutes, and by then your team is way overfarmed compared to the enemy and taking t3's isn't too difficult. Can even slow siege as you farm the entire map. In my experience, it's by far one of the easier strats to execute and the easiest way to score ranked wins when drafting.
.

I am so fucking glad I'm not the only one this has been happening to. I've described it the exact same way. And there are so many lineups that work for it that its difficult to tell when its going to happen from the picking/drafting stage. Cause you don't even need the obvious "pushing" tells like Death Prophet or Natures Prophet, just a good tank, some aoe, and a couple reliable stuns is usually enough to do it.

 

[Divvy]

Nah it's pretty clear I think by the description that it's All Random for heroes (from the full pool), and all of those heroes' abilities become the ability pool.

Well there must be some restrictions, otherwise you can just pick Zeus Ult and Rearm (if they allow 2 ults like in Dota1)

 

[Emerson]

Well there must be some restrictions, otherwise you can just pick Zeus Ult and Rearm (if they allow 2 ults like in Dota1)

Like I said, any of these combos assume those two specific heroes are randomed.

Maybe there will be restrictions on it, but I don't think there needs to be. It's a joke mode, it won't be balanced no matter what. With some of the other modes we know of and custom modes coming, it won't be the last.

 

[Drkirby]

So every new hero from now on will launch with an arcana?

Maybe. Its a bit annoying though, like I wish Terror Blade could have his Custom Kill Animation for all kills, and it not tied to an item (Though I haven't seen it yet, could be tacky)

Well there must be some restrictions, otherwise you can just pick Zeus Ult and Rearm (if they allow 2 ults like in Dota1)

Likely you will only be able to take on Ultimate.

I wonder if they will mix any other heroes abilities in. Like, have 10 heroes, but the abilities of say 12 heroes in the pool, so you don't get "stuck" with something.

 

[Hylian7]

I don't completely understand Drow's new Silence. Is it basically like Crypt Swarm or Dragon Slave, except it silences and knocks back?

 

[Schweinehund]

So every new hero from now on will launch with an arcana?

Wish that policy was around when Troll came out.

I may buy TB's arcana, I want to see some footage first.

 

[Drkirby]

I don't completely understand Drow's new Silence. Is it basically like Crypt Swarm or Dragon Slave, except it silences and knocks back?

You push the button, and then a wave of Silence comes out, knocking back units from 350 to 0 units.

I made a chart

 

[Skab]

You push the button, and then a wave of Silence comes out, knocking back units from 350 to 0 units.

I made a chart

My question is if it's directed in front of her, or in all directions.

 

[Drkirby]

My question is if it's directed in front of her, or in all directions.

In front of her, it a 250 AoE. It will be like Defining Blast.

 

[The Technomancer]

My question is if it's directed in front of her, or in all directions.

It has both an AoE and Distance rating so yeah, it'll be like Dragon Slave. if it was all directions they would just provide AoE

 

[x3r0123]

finally tb is here

 

[The Technomancer]

I'll be honest, on the surface Terrorblade doesn't seem that exciting to me. Only his ult seems really "interesting" to me. Can someone sell me on why he's particularly fun?

 

[Anbokr]

I'll be honest, on the surface Terrorblade doesn't seem that exciting to me. Only his ult seems really "interesting" to me. Can someone sell me on why he's particularly fun?

cuz illidan

 

[Quesa]

cuz illidan

Moar like ILLIN'den, amirite?

 

[Schweinehund]

I'll be honest, on the surface Terrorblade doesn't seem that exciting to me. Only his ult seems really "interesting" to me. Can someone sell me on why he's particularly fun?

He doesn't need much farm to be effective. His metamorphosis gives him 80 base damage at level 7, his clone deals 60% of his base damage, his ult is uncounterable and causes you to win almost any 1 v 1, and reflection can be an anti carry ability.

 

[Drkirby]

He doesn't need much farm to be effective. His metamorphosis gives him 80 base damage at level 7, his clone deals 60% of his base damage, his ult is uncounterable and causes you to win almost any 1 v 1, and reflection can be an anti carry ability.

+80 base damage (I read it as making it has base damage at first), making him have for 150 base damage at level 7 with level 4 Metamorphosis. Metamorphosis will also give him a 1.6 BAT and 550 range.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So every new hero from now on will launch with an arcana?

We'll have to see what happens tomorrow, if Phoenix shows his feathery face

If they add Phoenix, Techies will be the last CM hero not added yet. That's kind of interesting to think about. We're actually almost at hero parity, probably 2 or 3 more major updates...

 

[jaundicejuice]

I don't completely understand Drow's new Silence. Is it basically like Crypt Swarm or Dragon Slave, except it silences and knocks back?

Basically they're making her silence sort of a tool to escape being jumped. If someone is directly on top of her, they get knocked back and silenced. At the furthest cast range it functions as it already is. For example Spirit Breaker might get a free kill off of charge and ult. Drow silences and knocks back SB as he tries to ult and she might be able to burst him down.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Heh, if they add Phoenix it will break the default CM window because the radiant strength heroes hit the top of radiant agility.

 

[Sibylus]

• Roshan is going to be a goddamned beefcake in the lategame, meatier in the midgame too.
• -
• Great to see Ancient Apparation get some loving, hero is fantastic. Stacking Veil with Ice Vortex could be great (Amp %: 40/45/50/55).
• Being able to stack up Call of the Wild twice on Beastmaster is an excellent little buff, should be able to scout out a lot more of the map.
• Bloodseeker's Blood Bath is pretty damned potent now (full 40% of the hero's max HP), to the point where if you have a Force Staff or the like, it's difficult to kill you in a fight.
• Death Prophet's ult cd nerf aside, an 850-diameter silence is pretty huge fucking coverage.
• Reworked silence for Drow Ranger seems to be exactly what she (and her ult needs): an offensive skill for opening a gap.
• -
• Welcome buffs for my Husbando Earthshaker, particularly the movespeed! (skill Enchant Totem, people)
• Lion Agh's Finger makes the upgrade worthwhile, albeit never in a game where you're struggling.
• Hoping better damage absorption means a Medusa comeback. MY QUEEN.
• Being able to cast once again in Waveform could be what puts Morphling over the top, I think.
• Mana is already pretty tight on Nature's Prophet, will be interesting to see how the more expensive ult changes his playstyle.
• -
• Slight improvement to Death Pulse, Necrophos probably won't be seen much more from it I think. Situational.
• Similar to Lion, Ogre Magi's improved Aghs makes the upgrade worthwhile, particularly because you'll always be able to cast Unrefined Fireblast (provided you have more than 10 mana or something).
• I'm not sure what that guy from an earlier page was smoking, but 2 second stickiness for Degen Aura is actually a significant change, makes it quite a bit harder to juke away from a pursuing Omni Knight and his teammates. You have to be free of him for two whole seconds before his slow drops.
• I can see these Blur buffs pushing Phantom Assassin into play more often, particularly with the popularity of invis heroes like Bounty Hunter, Nyx Assassin, and Slark.
• After Crush, splitting points between Sprint and Bash on Slardar could work out decently. On a flat damage basis, it's more than Sniper's Headshot.
• -
• 950 range is kinda ridiculous on Sniper, but it seems to me that Shrapnel-maxed-first would still be optimal in terms of pure reach and utility.
• The vision on the ulted target is nice for Spirit Breaker, but not sure it constitutes an evening out after the ult was made cancellable.
• This Tinker Agh's upgrade is insane, lmao, and definitely something I'd buy early after BoTs if the game was going well. 975 damage to a team per cast if you don't whiff any of your missiles.
• Treant's ult now affects a diameter of 1,350 (old: 1,250), which means you can now reliably use it to catch out Blinkers before/during/after a teamfight. Git on dis ground floor, Gaf.
• Could see Tusk played a lot more on the back of his ult becoming a guaranteed crit 100% of the time (same boost as what a level 11 Phantom Assassin gets from an ult proc).
• -
• Soul Rip is one of the most underrated heals and nukes in the game, the CD buff definitely strengthens Undying's already formidable utility.
• Focus Fire is so good, ya'll, and now it's even better. Skill that shiz on Windranger!
• Mana-less Blink Dagger is so good news for me and all my favourite STR initiators.
• Not feeding a Necro Archer could be quite the difference maker in terms of lategame gold.
• Rod of Atos is still one of the most cost-efficient items in the game for mana and health items, gets that little bit better.

 

[sephi22]

Death Prophet's ult cd nerf aside, an 850-diameter silence is pretty huge fucking coverage.

I might be wrong but AoE =/= Radius right? I think an AoE of 425 means the area of the circle where people would be silenced.

• Treant's ult now affects a diameter of 1,350 (old: 1,250), which means you can now reliably use it to catch out Blinkers before/during/after a teamfight. Git on dis ground floor, Gaf.
  .

This also sounds suspect. The AoE of 675 is around Treant. ie: He's the center of the circle who's diameter is 1,350. So it only reaches someone 675 units away from Treant. If someone blinks, they gone man.

 

[IceMarker]

Shit damn I am so excited for this update!

 

[ElyrionX]

Where the fuck do I read about Drow's new silence?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I don't completely understand Drow's new Silence. Is it basically like Crypt Swarm or Dragon Slave, except it silences and knocks back?

more like deafening blast with a 250 aoe. the wave travels 900 distance and the closer you are to Drow, the further you get knocked back. maximum push back of 320. minimum of 0 if it just nips you at the furthest distance (900). The silence duration is the same no matter how far away it hits you, but the knockback reduces based on the distance. It helps her create space, which is really ingenious for her. the knockback won't interrupt channeling. fyi.

Where the fuck do I read about Drow's new silence?

the above is all you need to know.

 

[Sibylus]

I might be wrong but AoE =/= Radius right? I think an AoE of 425 means the area of the circle where people would be silenced.

This also sounds suspect. The AoE of 675 is around Treant. ie: He's the center of the circle who's diameter is 1,350. So it only reaches someone 675 units away from teammate. If someone blinks, they gone man.

The AoE cited in tooltip denotes the spell's radius (center to edge).

Stand corrected on Overgrowth though, forgot for a moment it isn't targetable.

 

[Skab]

Where the fuck do I read about Drow's new silence?

http://www.dota2.com/newbloom/day2/

Scroll down.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

I might be wrong but AoE =/= Radius right? I think an AoE of 425 means the area of the circle where people would be silenced.

Dota ability descriptions generally show the radius and not the diameter. Which is why small AoE buffs can be quite significant and people get confused about splash/cleave skills.

 

[NotoriousPUG]

Meepo is going to be very very strong for the people who know how to play him. Level 4 was already awesome for early kill potential, but level 3 is nuts.

 

[EmptyCanO'wupass]

So, whats the deal with terrorblade then? What are his roles, common builds, general tips or lesser known tricks, etc.

 

[Anuxinamoon]

Fuck yeah terrorblade! He's gonna be so fun to make items for!!!!

 

[ElyrionX]

CM got nerfed again, goddamnit.