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Dota 2 |OT3| #BetterThenEllenPudge

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BHK3

Banned
- Icarus Dive cannot be canceled sometimes (it's thought that the random auto attack messes up the cancel command if they happen at the same time)

Hold on, that's an actual bug?? Thank god i always thought it was just me not mashing Q hard enough. The autoattack thing I always thought you could control, if you just dived on a enemy without already right clicking them you won't attack them, but if you're chasing them with right clicks then you'll attack mid flight.
 
This is the best game ever.


It wasn't that long ago sunder and metamorphosis got all reworked.
"Wasn't that long ago" was September 2012. Almost 2 years ago. He's been in CM since late 2011, 3 years ago. His win rate isn't anything to write home about (he's in the company of Witch Doctor and Drow in this regard).

I think he's overrated. It always happens with new heroes. He's a good hero, but overall not some kind of TI2 Lycan monster he seems to be made into.

Hold on, that's an actual bug?? Thank god i always thought it was just me not mashing Q hard enough. The autoattack thing I always thought you could control, if you just dived on a enemy without already right clicking them you won't attack them, but if you're chasing them with right clicks then you'll attack mid flight.

If you have "auto attack after casting a spell" on, he'll auto attack when using dive. However, turning it off messes up other things (you have to a-click the ground to autoattack an entire way with the option on, which makes it useless for me)



Also have some DL Pudge Chainsaw concept
KAHznlO.jpg
 

Ketch

Member
Why does axe fall off so hard? Is it just because none of his abilities scale into the late game? or does he also have shit stat scaling?

It feels like people just build the wrong items on axe and that's why he ends up sucking... why not like attack speed lifesteal crit? treads bkb and blink.... just live long enough to dunk. He's a cool hero, just seems shitty.
 

LiQuid!

I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
I don't think they should interview players from teams that lose all their games...
 

n0b

Member
Bulba having the spin luck of GODS and he fucking wastes it by going blademail first I would KILL for that much spin luck. He has too much armor to return much damage and not enough health to return damage with that blademail. I don't think anything makes me angrier than people that build blademail with no health. Like if he wanted to go Mjollnir first that would have been fine instead of that blademail, or go some sort of health then blademail. UGH

TB and Invoker deserve a moderate to large nerf IMO. Though "large" dota nerfs sometimes appear insignificant (i.e. TB reflection now purge-able or illusion damage taken from 200%-->300% are both large nerfs that might not appear as such with a one line patch note).

Wex nerf is the biggest thing in my mind, but still I don't think it should be big. TB could use a nerf but I think he can stand to sit in the pool a bit longer. I would much rather see the rest of the pool get better and see if that is enough to bring down some of the bigger picks right now.
 
I don't really think Mjollnir did a ton of work for Bulba in that game. Shiva's Guard coulda been so good.
I can't imagine slowing the attack speed would be good when you want those spins to proc.

"Wasn't that long ago" was September 2012. Almost 2 years ago. He's been in CM since late 2011, 3 years ago. His win rate isn't anything to write home about (he's in the company of Witch Doctor and Drow in this regard).

I think he's overrated. It always happens with new heroes. He's a good hero, but overall not some kind of TI2 Lycan monster he seems to be
It's not that long relatively. Ember has been in the same amount of time and he's obviously still getting tweaked.

He needs a nerf if you ask me, he's way too good early game for how well he does late.

Winrate across the whole skill field is still a terrible way to judge needing balance. Remember when earth spirit had a shit win rate? Always? Oh yeah.
 

Sibylus

Banned
I can't imagine slowing the attack speed would be good when you want those spins to proc.
Slows them outside of call too, though. Where the game was going, he couldn't rely on spinning and winning anymore (particularly with Disruptor Aghs and all dem manaburning illusions).
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
"Wasn't that long ago" was September 2012. Almost 2 years ago. He's been in CM since late 2011, 3 years ago. His win rate isn't anything to write home about (he's in the company of Witch Doctor and Drow in this regard).

I think he's overrated. It always happens with new heroes. He's a good hero, but overall not some kind of TI2 Lycan monster he seems to be made into.

Worse (in regards to scum) than ti2 lycan tbh. Current Lycan is basically back to his ti2 status and hands down I'd take a TB over Lycan in 9/10 games. Stronger early game, comparable mid game (IF lycan gets rosh), stronger late game, better lane presence, better team-fight, and better push. The only thing Lycan has over TB is the free haste rune on his ulti, but TB is already so fast with just his base MS + yasha that it doesn't really matter.
 

1.09

Low Tier
u people are so stupid how can you not see how disgustingly powerful that hero is when all the pro streamers that you worship can be heard multiple times bitching about how strong that hero is. Players have legit climbed hundreds of mmr points by just picking tb just like how people rode the earth spirit train to higher mmr. And when that hero gets nerfed, people will fall a bunch of points, think that they don't deserve to be where they're at, always find an excuse as to why they lost, and claim that Valve is cheating them of their mmr. They'll start to believe that they really do deserve to be at the spot they were when they weren't even playing the game but just picking an overpowered piece of shit hero.

TB is so disgusting right now and if you're trying to use dota 1 cm as a metric of how that hero isn't imbalanced that's a fucking joke just like anyone who still plays dota 1 professionally. Dream on all you want, you're probably a TB picker or someshit. That hero's disgusting, and if you don't think so you have just as awful a grasp of this game as you do a taste for cosmetics.
 
Why does axe fall off so hard? Is it just because none of his abilities scale into the late game? or does he also have shit stat scaling?

It feels like people just build the wrong items on axe and that's why he ends up sucking... why not like attack speed lifesteal crit? treads bkb and blink.... just live long enough to dunk. He's a cool hero, just seems shitty.

From my beginner perspective most of his skills don't scale well into late game (except maybe Berseker's call).

Speaking of Axe is a combo like Berseker's call and then popping Ghost Scepter possible? If so can you still get spins while doing this?
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Why exactly is he disgusting? Is it due to metamorphosis?

it's due to him being pretty much #1 in every carry category

insane push? check
ranged illusions that deal over 100% of his melee base damage? check
Unconventionally low BAT? Check
survivability/mobility? check thanks to base stats
Unconventionally high regen? check
Hands down best slow in the entire game that can be left at level 1 and is unpurge-able? check
high damage? check
early game? check
mid-game? check
late-game? check
check
check
check
no mana problems whatsoever? check
check

Only two drawbacks: moderately high cast time and short range on sunder/reflection, but those aren't nearly enough considering his strengths.

Now normally you'd look at this list and be like shit this looks like a standard melee hard carry with high base stats and certain strengths to off-set the fact that melee carries are kited pretty easily in the late game. Welp, TB doesn't really suffer from that problem with an on-demand ranged form and all that also exponentially increases his damage output.
 

Acinixys

Member
I just tried out the Bfury rush build on Ember Spirit. Even though I snowballed to shit, I still prefer drums deso. I felt specially squishy and lacking of damage until the secoond bfury arrived, where the farming rate just explodes.

Still prefer the -7 armour on everyone deso gives though, specially since i dont likw playing ember as a hard carry.

So Phase - Drums - Deso - Bfury - Crit - Bfury is legit, while Bfury after boots is trash is what youre saying?
 
Four games in a row. What the fuck.

And now I'm stuck down to 3750. It is literally impossible for me to get to 4k.
Really don't take this the wrong way or anything, I'm not trying to be mean I swear.

But are you sure you really deserve to be 4000? I mean I know you've put a lot of time into the game and stuff, but maybe the game is just putting you where you deserve to be?

At the end of the day it's just a number who cares. If you really are 4k stuck in 3.75k you'll get their eventually. Be patient and stop freaking out all the goddamn time.
 

Kard8p3

Member
Four games in a row. What the fuck.

And every single one was lost because of some idiot on my team

And now I'm stuck down to 3750. It is literally impossible for me to get to 4k.

Legit quit playing AM. He has the lowest winrate for a carry IIRC.

Also TBF u did die a bit too much in ur NP game. Can't just throw the rest of the team under the bus w/o thinking about what u did.
 

Hylian7

Member
Really don't take this the wrong way or anything, I'm not trying to be mean I swear.

But are you sure you really deserve to be 4000? I mean I know you've put a lot of time into the game and stuff, but maybe the game is just putting you where you deserve to be?

At the end of the day it's just a number who cares. If you really are 4k stuck in 3.75k you'll get their eventually. Be patient and stop freaking out all the goddamn time.

I've been there consistently before. There's no way I just "got worse" suddenly.
 

Hylian7

Member
Legit quit playing AM. He has the lowest winrate for a carry IIRC.

Also TBF u did die a bit too much in ur NP game. Can't just throw the rest of the team under the bus w/o thinking about what u did.

I remembered that game before I edited that. I acknowledge I've had games where I've screwed up, and sure, that happens to everyone. But most of my losses lately are because of my team.

Again don't take this the wrong way...

You picked earth spirit. And also its not like you're skill can't change or go down anyway.

And I stopped picking Earth Spirit most of the time and was still in 4K after than, then a sudden drop.

And how would that make any sense for skill to go down when I keep playing?
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
I know it won't happen, but I hope IceFrog nerf Mirana into the ground next patch. I'm so goddamn tired of having some matches where I'm just an arrow magnet, and I"m actively trying to dodge them, and then get hit by one from an angle I completely didn't expect.

Don't you play pudge
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
His point is a well played Pudge is equally (if not more) annoying, so do you also support a massive nerf to him as well?
 

Hylian7

Member
His point is a well played Pudge is equally (if not more) annoying, so do you also support a massive nerf to him as well?

Arrow is almost two times the range of a Pudge hook. On top of that people keep saying I want a "Massive nerf pls op volvo pls fix" but I want a "Take her out of the meta" nerf. And I said I know it won't happen anyway
 
Hylian, I think you need to stop focusing on your mmr and more on what's not working right now. Go watch your replays and start analyzing your mistakes if you're really that hell bent on improving your mmr.

Seems like you're playing yourself into some bad habits
 

Hylian7

Member
Hylian, I think you need to stop focusing on your mmr and more on what's not working right now. Go watch your replays and start analyzing your mistakes if you're really that hell bent on improving your mmr.

Seems like you're playing yourself into some bad habits

My biggest mistakes are picking heroes I'm not good at in ranked, like Nature's Prophet usually. I make other mistakes, sure, but I still feel like I improve yet my MMR doesn't go up generally because I get stuck with shitty teams after a spree of good games.
 
My biggest mistakes are picking heroes I'm not good at in ranked, like Nature's Prophet usually. I make other mistakes, sure, but I still feel like I improve yet my MMR doesn't go up generally because I get stuck with shitty teams after a spree of good games.

You could always pick heroes you're good with in ranked then. I dunno... Do you really feel like the competition get significantly better from 3.75k - 4k?
 

Demoli

Member
I do. and I still see cliff jungling Nature's Prophets in 3.7k...sure it can only go up from there.

You'll see stupid shit all the way to 6k. Many pro streamers have the oddest, stupidest, less effective builds and strats happening on their streams. If you think it will magicly disapear as soon as you hit 4k, 4.5k or whatever arbritrary goal you set for yourself you are completely delusional.

Just focus on improving yourself, your hero pool and the effectiveness of the heroes you are already good at, stop worrying about a number that ultimatly means nothing.
 

Ketch

Member
Also MMR is relative based on the rest of the people playing... so if your improving at the same rate as everyone else then you won't go up anyway.

Here's what I think you should do. Play for a month (or a couple weeks at least), in ranked or whatever, but don't look at your MMR at all until the month is up... and then check to see how much it's changed.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I still say hylian needs to play more supports and off laners, to get a better idea of what they can and can't do. Our at least shake up the carries he plays.
 

Artanisix

Member
He's been in Dota forever and the last few years had been relatively untouched. If he was really this broken and overpowered someone would have noticed long before he was in Dota 2.

That's a silly argument.

Counter argument: there was no indication that Earth Spirit was god tier before he came to Dota 2. If what you say is true, then we would have known ES was uber beforehand.

Basing the strength of a hero on what an irrelevant population of players say is ridiculous.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Only time I've ever agreed with dotallyrad (this was written about a year ago).

Also you could isolate why you lost to a PL in the same way you isolated how you lost to Mirana: you (using you generally here, not "you" specifically) probably didn't gank one of the easiest hard carries to kill in the early game considering his only escape is completely countered by a 180g item that let's you kill him for free twice every minute, and allowed him to farm for 40 minutes until he became relevant and carried the game for his team. Or maybe you did try these things but you got hella denied by an OP KOTL that helped turtle for 40 minutes or a batrider that made it a pain to ever push with 5 teammates since he always scored a guaranteed kill on one.

People of course always tend to ignore the fotm "OP" early game heroes that allow the fotm "OP" carry heroes like PL to make it into the late game (with some notable exceptions like Earth Spirit 2400 range initiation), and only remember the fact that they got bulldozed by a six slotted hard carry... derp.

I can't speak for anyone else but I hate fighting PL because he punishes mistakes more then just about any other carry in the game. Yes, he can be beaten, of course, but there's no leeway, no room for error, because every inch you give him he turns into a mile and you never get that mile back
 
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