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Dota 2 |OT3| #BetterThenEllenPudge

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M

Madouu

Member
OldAsUrSock said:
Ancient Apparition's positioning was pretty trash tier.
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Well it was veno 7ckngmad who was playing AA at that point and he was playing veno during the whole game for who that positioning might've made sense, I wouldn't fault him too much.

I totally agree with Merlini, since FATA has come back, the team looks much better. That was a really entertaining game with some nice plays from pretty much all the players. Sigma might be one of the best teams at kiting around and reengaging but Empire proved they're just as good, if not better.
 
Q

Quesa

Member
Hylian7 said:
Then why was everyone (including Milkman, Anbokr, and all those people) wanting it so badly?
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Because "High" and "Very High" were all they got before.
and now they can lord those numbers over us

Also tried Dagon Rush Skywrath and it seems to work well! At 3K mmr people don't seem to look at your items all that much so you can just take staff with you. May buy a ring of regen just as a red herring tho. Thanks Morsel!

SteveWinwood said:
who doesnt a Dagon rush work on
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It's specifically not putting points into your ult until later in favor of spamming e and q with dagon.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
OldAsUrSock said:
Yep, peeps need to realize MMR is a glorified W/L ratio.
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not true at all, for example, liquid'TC has 75% win and is skirting on the border of 6k mmr. arteezy has something like 56% and is at 6.4-6.5k. there are also plenty of people between 50-54% winrate that can be anywhere from 2k to 6k mmr.

yeah you win, you gain mmr; you lose, you lose mmr, but it's not as simple as a w/l ratio
 
A

Acinixys

Member
Really makes me sad when I try to very polity and kindly advise people on item choices to help us win, but they dont listen and tell me to get stuffed and then we lose

Dires Doom DCs so its 4v5 from 20 mins

Timbersaw rushes Bloodstone, ends with 1 charge

Gyro gets shadowblade 1st, ends with that, boots and a ultimate orb (was a 50 min game)

Lycan builds Deso and Crit, and refuses to get necro book because "its a support item"

Even if im only a 3.4k MMR player I know that my item build and game sense is 10x the scrubs I get matched with. It makes me sad because so often I lose due to dumb item choices by teammates

(My K/D was shit because i had to support so I only got my damage items very late)
 
G

Green Biker Dude

Banned
it makes no sense. when he couldn't climb the ladder, people say it's because he doesn't deserve it. but now that he's hanging there, they say the same thing.

either the matchmaking works well and people "stay where they belong" or it doesn't and there are players ranked wrongly. you can't have it both ways
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Gully State said:
From that reddit post, I found this gem of an experiment. Basically a 3.5K player bought a 4.6K MMR account and has played 30 games thus far, ending up with a .500 record. His dotabuff account here.

http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1409043

The amount of saltiness in that thread is amazing.
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#dead

Originally Posted by zerrax View Post
Not going to deny I have bad games.
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Trust me, no one has had an issue finding examples of bad performances.

You play some painfully mediocre support. You are often a lower level, when your team wins, then the ENEMY support. The only time you manage to match the losing supports in any discernible stat is when your mid or carry players absolutely dominate the shit out of their lanes and crush the enemy supports into a place where you can compete.

When your team loses, you are usually levels and levels behind anything resembling a hero.

Your ability to pick up early levels is atrocious. I haven't seen a single game where you simple 2-3 double pulls in a won trilane vs offlane. I haven't seen a single game where you keep the enemy offlane at level 1 for the first couple waves. I haven't seen you buy a smoke and successfully gank mid within the first 2 minutes. I haven't even seen you place the lane ward after 6 minutes to protect your carry from TP ganks.

I haven't seen you ONCE (I watched 3 replays, your perspective and mouse clicks, for the first 15 minutes) check on mid heroes items, their HP, try to snipe a courier, look at your offlane's level, buy a TP to protect your mid against ganks, look at offlane heroes items. You never move your perspective to be anything but centered at your own hero. Unless you are dead or stopped for 5-10 seconds to wait for a pull, you fail to ever look anywhere but at your own hero.

You fail to ping or explain missing heroes, watch for ganks on your mid, pick up extra farm in the jungle while watching other parts of the map, watch enemy supports and dewarding their second ward set (things a pulling/stacking support can easily have time for).

Almost half your time early game seems to be often spent stacking large camps. You stack those bad boys with a sniper carry. You stack those camps with a mirana carry. You stack them despite the fact that most games there isn't a hero that will clear them for another 10+ minutes. You forgo levels and gold, ganks on mid, anything useful for doubling the number of jungle creeps that stand there and watch you fail your early game.

I won't point out what happens mid/late game, because by then you are so level starved and behind that your contributions have almost no chance.

I'm criticizing because you need to realize that you aren't improving, you aren't even admitting that you are most often playing poorly. Rather than move to the 4.7k MMR and learning from those you play with/against, you have decided that you play "good enough" and remain, just as your camera in game, directly focused on yourself, rather than at what others can teach you.

You have the efficiency and foresight of 1923 Germany.


Ask yourself, when you read this post, are you trying to come with a defense to refute what I said, or are you thinking about the possibility that some of the criticism is valid. Are you on the defensive, looking to explain yourself and prove that you are playing fine, or open to taking the shit people throw at you and building a mud house.
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Burden? Are you kidding me?
Yea he went 0-15-3 and 0-8-1 as Orge Magi but this is because he is creating spaces for his team. Okay some people said a support is supposed to get some assists. I call that bullshit. OP is obviously dying on purpose to bait out important spells. Of course he is not getting assists if he is chain-disabled to death by primal roars and blackholes.

If you have watched the replays carefully, you can see that OP is intentionally luring enemies into wasting crucial disables on him in order to give free rein to his teammates. This is smart play. He doesnt spam Orges for no reasons. Orge is best suited for this kind of playstyle due to his tankiness, allowing him to draw 1 or 2 extra spells before he goes down.

It also explains why zerrax, a 3.5k player, can easily hang with 4.7k players. 3.5k players have no idea on how to capitalize on the space created by Zerrax. In a 3.5k level 5v5 teamfight, even if Zerrax sees the opportunity and purposely runs in and dies, his teammates would stupidly think they are at a 4v5 disadvantage and back off, leaving Zerrax's sacrifice in vain.
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You fucking retard just lost me a game, hope you're happy, enjoy your report you piece of shit.

tnBJsDF.jpg
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M

Madouu

Member
If you lack the leadership, communication skills and game knowledge (mainly what to pick that will make an impact on the game and how to react to the different situations you will be in, like when to farm and when to gank) you will have a hard time rising in the MMR ladder even if your individual skills are those of a 5k or a 6k player.

I haven't seen you ONCE (I watched 3 replays, your perspective and mouse clicks, for the first 15 minutes) check on mid heroes items, their HP, try to snipe a courier, look at your offlane's level, buy a TP to protect your mid against ganks, look at offlane heroes items. You never move your perspective to be anything but centered at your own hero. Unless you are dead or stopped for 5-10 seconds to wait for a pull, you fail to ever look anywhere but at your own hero.
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This is very important as a support hero, and I rarely see people do it in the 4k bracket at least.
 
G

Gully State

Member
Yea because they will gladly kill steal their carries all game (detrimental to the team) and then run and hide when the game is over instead of getting fountain farmed (they care, I don't. I'd rather check my email) - I don't have some internet epeen ego that I need to feed. I personally love winning games where I'm like 2-20 on Venomancer. It's my damn job to go in there, lay down the ult, and ultimately die. (of course I would prefer to live, but that's usually not reality)
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good lord...
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Green Biker Dude said:
it makes no sense. when he couldn't climb the ladder, people say it's because he doesn't deserve it. but now that he's hanging there, they say the same thing.

either the matchmaking works well and people "stay where they belong" or it doesn't and there are players ranked wrongly. you can't have it both ways
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did you read the thread or look at the dota buff? he has 3 positive k/ds out of two pages on dotabuff

hes losing more than hes winning

hes going down

hes not hanging there

plus even one and a half pages is nothing would love to see where he is after a hundred or so games
 
G

Gully State

Member
SteveWinwood said:
did you read the thread or look at the dota buff? he has 3 positive k/ds out of two pages on dotabuff

hes losing more than hes winning

hes going down

hes not hanging there

plus even one and a half pages is nothing would love to see where he is after a hundred or so games
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He's 19-19 since taking over the account. You're right though that he's playing terribly despite being 19-19 (at least according to his KDA which is atrocious)
 
C

Chris R

Member
It's funny how things work out sometimes. Pick Alch to run him support, end up solo lane against BM/Bane.

So instead of stun, I level acid and gold and end up fat as fuck and help carry the rest of the team.

I thought it was going to be rough but when little spiderlings come your way things end up better than they should :)

Anbokr said:
Ezy4NMs.png


MM8h0U7.png


hmmm, you don't say?
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GG MultiCast too hard :(
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Gully State said:
He's 19-19 since taking over the account. You're right though that he's playing terribly despite being 19-19 (at least according to his KDA which is atrocious)
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His mmr should still be going down more than not since it doesn't only take w/l into account though.

I glanced the last few pages of the thread and I can't see him saying where it is now. Does he?
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
That he's 19-19 after putting up such reliably abysmal scores seems more a testament to the quality of players he's playing with, rather than his own.
 
G

GordonHalfman

Member
Both the low-high and high-low experiment show the system isn't working perfectly, at least in the sense that it's taking longer than you'd think to get both players back to their previous level. But then you have to remember that they both cheated the calibration system to get accounts with low uncertainty, so of course their mmr is adjusting slowly since the system isn't really designed to account for 3k players turning into 5k players overnight.

It's also just a question of how fast you can expect mmr to adjust when the game has five people on each team. At the moment the 3k guy seems to be in some kind of weird elo heaven where you can do 1.4k hero damage on axe and still win the game but I'd be pretty surprised if he's still up there in a few hundred games time.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
GordonHalfman said:
Both the low-high and high-low experiment show the system isn't working perfectly, at least in the sense that it's taking longer than you'd think to get both players back to their previous level. But then you have to remember that they both cheated the calibration system to get accounts with low uncertainty, so of course their mmr is adjusting slowly since the system isn't really designed to account for 3k players turning into 5k players overnight.

It's also just a question of how fast you can expect mmr to adjust when the game has five people on each team. At the moment the 3k guy seems to be in some kind of weird elo heaven where you can do 1.4k hero damage on axe and still win the game but I'd be pretty surprised if he's still up there in a few hundred games time.
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51 games to cruise up 1000 mmr is a lot faster than I would have figured but maybe that's just me.
 
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